Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Karnak on June 22, 2003, 12:54:06 AM
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Why are there so many killstealers lately? Normally I don't suffer very many kill stealings, but lately its been rampant?
What makes somebody do such a scummy thing? Its not like they actually earned the kill or demonstrated any skill? Why do it?
It sucks and there needs to be some way of stopping it.
"Ooh. I'm so manly!!! I just blasted a helpless, spinning wreck!!! I'm 1337!!!!"
:rolleyes:
I'm sick of that crap.
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It's all part of the no-skill, never actually fight, running away crowd of late. You see the spinning wingless enemy plane is a very incviting target to them as it poses nearly no threat and so can be attacked agressivley. Enjoy!
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My personal rules.
1. Must kill the bandit my friends think they have.
2. Do not shoot at totally disabled planes.
3. Do shoot his chute.
Very easy rules.
Drex
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Understand Karnak. Seems to be on the rise. Had several 'stolen' in the past couple of days. Even had dweebs fly in front of my guns from below with me 200-300 behind enemy, fire and bang KS'd. Nothing we can do but try to "educate nicely" the noobs on the country channel when we see it. Altho I must admit to not being too cordial :) when it comes to KS. I've died to it 3 times in the last 3 days, I've only died to it 3 times before that period since I started flyin AH in March 02. :rolleyes:
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Maybe it could be programmed so that once an aircraft was definately dead it's icon disappeared and the kill was awarded.
By definately dead I mean something like a whole wing missing, the whole tail missing, the verticle stablizer missing or the horizontal stablizer missing.
Missing half a wing, both aelirons, both elevators, on fire or all engines would not count as aircraft in those conditions could conceivably fly home (at least to allow a bail out over friendly territory) or still be a threat to somebody by diving for speed.
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Would be nice but then I'd just get pissed about having to spend more ammo to blow it away instead of a little to cut 1 wing in 1/2. ;)
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Ive learned to just vox ie"spit dead" anytime anyone else is in. Then squeak up a storm to anyone who continues shooting (and then get a mixture of crap and agreement on local and country lol). Only had 2 blatently stolen this tour, and I didnt happen to call it dead those times either (like the missing wing, smoke and fire wasnt obvious enough.)
Maybe it could be programmed so that once an aircraft was definately dead it's icon disappeared and the kill was awarded. By definately dead I mean something like a whole wing missing, the whole tail missing, the verticle stablizer missing or the horizontal stablizer missing. Missing half a wing, both aelirons, both elevators, on fire or all engines would not count as aircraft in those conditions could conceivably fly home (at least to allow a bail out over friendly territory) or still be a threat to somebody by diving for speed.
That would be nice if a whole wing or whole tail missing would just register as a kill. Note: (Purely by luck I have ditched twice w/o vertical stabilizer. Was like a sheet of paper floating to the ground)
It can be very frustrating. I still get ticked thinking back in tour twentysomthing when I shot the wing off an f6 1v1 at 15K to watch a so called vet steal the tumbling wreck at 1K.
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- was in this massive furball on Pizza. Saddle up to an F4U and begin to snipe parts off it with my A6M. There goes his aileron - and tracers pass all around my canopy !!!
I break, 150m from the target. The guy firing is a friendly Hellcat, 1.0 behind the nme Corsair. WTFG !
- BigIsles: I finally out-E the spit and go after it`s tail. At D300, i let loose with both Mausers and the 13mm. Solid hits, Spit disintegrates.
Countrymate sweeps in from below my nose, killshootered.
- Vulching a La7 in the process of taking off from behind. Fire a long aimed burst of 12.7mm . Countrymate dives over me, pushes down, eats my lead and augers on the rwy.
Aggravating.
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The Main is as the Main does. But, manipulating the icon may be a good idea; I think in WarBirds they turned white when the plane was going down?
I don't fly as much as I used to, but the last few nights in the MA I have noticed much more dweebish behavior than I ever noticed before. The other night I watched LA-7s screaming in to attack an airfield I was capping, boring in on a fighter hangar, guns blazing, and smashed right into the structure. Several LAs did this in a row. It was almost fascinating to watch after the first one. This apparently is someone's idea of fun in an online flight sim. Whaddaya gonna do?
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Fly alone and it wont happen. I fly alone alot and never have the problem. Getting ganged or losing my advantages I gotta work on though
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Equally annoying is to see a 109 with a conga line of five or six planes 2.4 away from me. I've looked down... thought the guy was sufficiently handled and turned away to look for less popular targets and then hear the POP POP POP as the 109 fires on me.
I don't shoot at broken planes, but I will pop a plane that is beaten but not dead yet.
...and shooting chutes? Well, that's only fun if I hear about it on Channel 1. :)
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Ju88s can fly rather well without verticle(SP?) stab.. imagining most twin-engines adn above can fly relatively smoothly level without em
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i would assume the kill stealers are new to the game and can't differtiate between live planes and dying ones. Hate to think their skill state is permanently low and they have to resort to shooting up carcasses!
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TW9
KILL STEALER!~@!#%$@!%!@%!@%:D
lol
:D
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Oh and lets not forget the 10 or 15 "Check 6" calls you get when saddled up from friendlies following you in hopes you will pull out and he can slide in and there's not another red icon in visual range.
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As a recent transplant from Warbirds I can tell you that almost all the gripes here rarely occur over there. Of course when you only have 50 or less in the arena the community becomes close knit and there is not much in the way of lopsided numbers. I'll take the gripes here any day!
Although the perk points in this sim make kills alittle more important, my main payoff is knowing I shot the guy down. Even if some dweeb feels it necessary to add his lead to the carcass and is officially awarded the kill.
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I dunno.. I think maybe it could be a server burp sometimes. The other day I worked pretty hard at killin a spit (me in a P-40b). Laid a whole bunch of ammo into him, he we was on fire and smoking... and as I watched him flutter to earth this clown comes along and puts a pile of ammo into him till he exploded. I called the guy (who I'll leave nameless) on it, and he starts with this big thing on vox about how I completely missed, all the while another player was commenting it looked like the guy was flying and ANOTHER guy commented on what about the smoke, fire and flutter did they not get about the guy being dead. SO.. I don't know, maybe sometimes the effects don't get to all the pilots. Either way... I've still noticed a significant increase in kill stealing morons lately.
HTC... please jack the price back up. WAY up.
Tumor
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If you want to steal my kill, your welcome to it :)
It is sometimes hard to tell what is going on. I have laid lead into some enemy, but sprayed him all over. Others come in and I brake off. Moments later, I get the kill. I must have done more damage, but I didn't do enough damage in any one place to take him down. I bet someone is cussing under their breath thinking someone took their kill :)
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Edge welcome to the darkside, hope you enjoy it.
In the arena most call out "The spits dead" or something along those lines.
Doesn't bother me much, it all evens out.
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That brings up a question. How does AH give you a kill or when multiple planes shoot at a target how does it figure wich guy killed it. Alot of times ill take a guys wing off he will fall and other guys shoot it on the way down but it gives me the kill(wich it should). Lastnight however we were in bish territory and I manged to get a ping on Mathmans f6f then his E left me in the dust and 3min later I got the kill and i heard someone say f6f dead. In that case I should not have gotten the kill as im sure 1 ping from a 50 cal at 1.1 out shouldnt have hurt a f6f at all. Usally if I disable a plane or really beat it up I get the kill even if others try to ''kill steal". Sometimes Im getting kills for just a couple of pings on a guy. Anyone know how this works? is it first hits on emeny gets the kill when going down or most damage or sometihng? maybe first to pilot wound,or disrupt flight controls or something would be interesting to know
FBsmokey
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The player who did the most points of damage gets the kill.
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The player who did the most points of damage gets the kill.
not allways,,somtimes,,,i know for a fact one time i was straifing a pnz with a stuka,,we all know stuka version we got has horrible guns that couldnt hurt any tank,,but i was just tring to get his attetion,,while a buddy killed him in a panzer,,,well when he killed the panzer i got the kill for it,,,there is no way i did more damage with my tiny little guns compared to his main cannon,,lol
and one time i was going to dive bomb a tank with a 1,000lb bomb,,,and a spittfire was straifing the tank,,and said he didnt have any cannon rounds left,,he was using mgs on him,,,i dropped my 1,000lb bomb on the tank,,,and the guy in the spitt got the kill for it,,and even he said i should of got kill for it,,i think they need to work on the damage points a little more:)
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Been playing less than a year and I've noticed a significant reduction in ... skill.... at least the use of it. I would say maybe 75% of people I fight are perfectly content to trade HO's and are at a bit of a loss at what to do once HO fails. Of course, with their skill level, if they die while killing a guy it's a successful mission. Half the arena is in La7's and spits.. niks too sometimes, just looking for an opportunity to HO someone, die, then up to HO someone again. Many of these HO peeps are perfectly willing to fly their plane into their opponents if the HO misses.
As a matter of curiosity, the other day I kept track of 30 head to head merges. 26... 26! of then were content to trade HO attacks. Now, some of you can type all you want about how HO is a legitimate tactic, I'm not saying it is or isn't. I am saying it's foolish in terms of this game. In almost all mutual Ho's, both planes are damaged to the point of being disabled, with at least one gettting shot down. So the "winner" ends up in a crippled plane and is lucky to limp home with his one kill. Had a guy tell me the other day "I almost always win my HO's, Steve." I checked his k/d k/s... both less than 1...I didn't bother explaining his lack of logic... it runs throughout the MA.
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Originally posted by Steve
...I would say maybe 75% of people I fight are perfectly content to trade HO's and are at a bit of a loss at what to do once HO fails.
In other words, 75% of the people you fight have enough skill to force a neutral merge.
Takes two to HO.
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whoever feels it takes two to HO is a fool. Forcing a neutral merge is one thing(and easier than about anything in the game, including landing).. once that is done, only one guy can fire to make in an HO. If only one guy wants to HO, he can, and the other guy chooses to evade the HO attempt. there you have it... one guy HO'ing.... not two. That phrase "it takes two to HO" is just plain rediculous.
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Oh... I get it... it takes skill to hold your fire... okay... :rolleyes:
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Nice try sandman. No, it takes a modicum of skill to dodge the HO on the merge. Not a great amount, mind you... but at least a smidge. But, you've made my point for me by not arguing it with anything but sarcasm. Thanks.
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Well... if you can dodge a HO at the merge, why are you complaining?
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I'm agreeing with some others in this thread, and other threads, that say the skill level is deteriorating in the arena(imo). And I can dodge Ho's yes, but some still score a ping or two. I think that those who settle for Ho's as their primary mode of attack are denying themselves the opportunity to improve as rapidly/much as their potential allows and also the pleasure of recognizing said improvement. Of course, this is all under the assumption that people would consider getting say... 3 kills per mission/death to be better than getting less than one.
Now, sure there are times when you are left with no option but to HO... I understnd this, Sandman... and since you like flying the hurri, your odds of success are better than many. I'm saying (again) that it seems many are content to use the HO as their primary method of getting kill and that this is, imho, not the best way to be successful/get the most fun out of the game.
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If it has a red icon I shoot it. If you weren't able to finish the job yourself, there's no need to come here squeaking about your own shortcomings.
MiniD
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Well... the cool thing about the Hurri is that it turns so well that HO rarely happen. I choose the Hurri simply because by gunnery sucks and it doesn't take more than a chance or two to take a plane down.
More often than not, when faced with a HO merge and I've resisted the temptation to fire, the opponent hasn't so... might as well let 'em rip.
Consider this, Steve... (and I'm not really interested in starting a pissing contest), but I question the value of your perception. Guys like you, and Drex and DMF with freakish K/D really have no idea what the skill level is like. We are all beneath you. I've been at this a few years and from my point of view on average, it's not getting any harder to win a kill, nor is it getting any easier. Of course, maybe I just suck and I've not learned a thing.
Still, I've went up against opponents that made it absolutely clear after the first merge that they either knew what they were doing, or they were bumbling newbies.
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i know what ya mean about kill stealing,,i have took off players wings,,,and as im watching them fall back to earth,,i see 3 or 4 guys on my team burning all there e and shooting at my dead duck as it falls,,instead of going after live targets in the area{while im saying he is dead on a open team channel},,and then a bad guy come in and cleans there clocks,,hehe,,all because they wanted to steal a kill,,,it happens,,i allmost laugh when i see it,,because what a wasit of ammo and time,,,all just to loose there life in a attempt to take a duck away,,lol
<~~dont bother me too much,,because i just clean up the ducks on there tails,,hehe
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If it has a red icon I shoot it. If you weren't able to finish the job yourself, there's no need to come here squeaking about your own shortcomings.
Troll? Mabey, mabey not. In the same token if I spend my time and ammo knocking a plane out of the sky. I have no problem spending an equal amount of time cursing out a no skill dweeb on vox no matter how many people are around to hear it.
Guys like you, and Drex and DMF with freakish K/D really have no idea what the skill level is like. We are all beneath you.
Man steve you got a promotion!! I envy you. Do you know what an honor it is to be mentioned with Drex? lol
Steve- I have to agree with what you are saying. Although, in most situations I really cant complain about it. In the bussle of the MA it is nice to have so many potential 1 manover kills around. Because that is usually what it takes to kill a HO artist. On the other hand I still share your frustration, in that I believe that some of the HO artists couldnt out manover the Spruce Goose. We know from our past debates, I tend to mix it up a little more than you. My frustrations comes when I am in a #s vs 1 situation and still the only thing these guys know is HO. Point-If you have an enemy out numbered 3 or more to 1, and still a HO shot is the only thing you can manage....lol, scrapings off the bottom of the dweeb barrel.
I avoid HOs often, and give them when I have to.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Troll? Mabey, mabey not. In the same token if I spend my time and ammo knocking a plane out of the sky. I have no problem spending an equal amount of time cursing out a no skill dweeb on vox no matter how many people are around to hear it.
Ah... and all could have been avoided if you were just a tad bit better on the trigger.
But then.. some just like to get on vox and sound superior.
MiniD
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This thread makes me wonder where is Rude?:p :D
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Mini D,
Why do you shoot at falling carcasses?
The job has been finished. It is dead. It is no more. It wouldn't VOOOOMMMM if you put 10,000 volts through it.
Why shoot it? It is a waste of your ammo and likely puts you out of position to fight actual threats.
Maybe you're one of the guys who hovers 10,000ft below a fight to shoot up falling carcasses. Why? Is it fun? Do you get your rocks off?
It doesn't take any skill to shoot something like that. I don't understand people who subscribe to a combat game and then avoid combat and get their jollies by whelching off of others.
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Originally posted by Murdr
On the other hand I still share your frustration, in that I believe that some of the HO artists couldnt out manover the Spruce Goose.
I still think that if the opponent can manage no better than a neutral merge, turn after turn, he is just as good as I. If I can't gain angles, I have only myself to blame... that or, we both are flying the aircraft at peak efficiency.
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I think this is due to the influx of N00bs who couldn't hit their bellybutton with a seat cusion. I have had 4 or 5 kills swiped by these guys, and in every case the target was missing its tail or wing. So, I simply keep shooting till it explodes, or if it was a snapshot that disabled the target, I give every would-be thief a "Check 6" as soon as they show interest.
That said, most guys will apologize when imformed of their offense. Generally, that is is enough to end the issue for me.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
I think this is due to the influx of N00bs who couldn't hit their bellybutton with a seat cusion. I have had 4 or 5 kills swiped by these guys, and in every case the target was missing its tail or wing.
I thought you said they couldn't hit anything.
Yessir.. they can't hit crap unless they're stealing a kill. Then they are suddenly aces.
Well.. whatever makes you feel better about yourself I suppose.
MiniD
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Mini D,
Do you actually understand what we are talking about?
It doesn't sound like you do.
We are not talking about people shooting enemy aircraft down that we had been working on and hoping to kill ourselves, but somebody else got it first. Calling that kill stealing would be stupid.
We're talking about falling, non-manuvering wreckage. Something that anybody can hit, even if hitting a manuvering aircraft is very difficult for them.
If you did understand what we were talking about your statements make you out to be a simple minded dolt.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Mini D,
Why do you shoot at falling carcasses?
I don't believe I have ever shot a carcass while playing AH. Could you clarify this please?The job has been finished. It is dead. It is no more. It wouldn't VOOOOMMMM if you put 10,000 volts through it.
Volts? are you using some kind of different weapon? Bullets don't have a voltage silly. Though, if they did, you might be able to re-animate an object if enough voltage was applied... like redirected from a lightning bolt.Why shoot it? It is a waste of your ammo and likely puts you out of position to fight actual threats.
Maybe you're one of the guys who hovers 10,000ft below a fight to shoot up falling carcasses. Why? Is it fun? Do you get your rocks off?
You have me pegged. I find little as exciting as stealing a kill... much to my wifes dismay. As she attempts to lure me to the bedroom, I sit stoichly with a joystick in each hand eagerly awaiting a stolen kill.... or pray tell a stolen kill followed by a chute kill.It doesn't take any skill to shoot something like that. I don't understand people who subscribe to a combat game and then avoid combat and get their jollies by whelching off of others.
It doesn't take any skill? Have you tried to shoot a plane spiralling out of control? It's very difficult. As far as welching off of others... why do you even fly in the MA? What you really need is the dueling arena where you can't welch off of any distraction, other con or anything. Instead, you fly in the MA where "combat" is anything but. Of course, you can pretend it is really combat if that gets your "jollies off"... but then you'd have to rethink just exactly what it is you are making fun of again.
Some people play the game, others think it is a means to get their rocks off, or their jollies from. Too bad they have to post threads like this to keep things.. um... liveley.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Karnak
We're talking about falling, non-manuvering wreckage. Something that anybody can hit, even if hitting a manuvering aircraft is very difficult for them.
If you did understand what we were talking about your statements make you out to be a simple minded dolt.
Ummmm... karnak...
I believe I said I shoot at it if it has a red icon. Does what you describe have a red icon? And... since when does wreckage fly? I believe the instant the plane wrecks in AH it is dead. Even damaged planes fly... just not that well.
Really... you should think about what you're saying. You're really coming off like a simple minded dolt.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Ummmm... karnak...
Even damaged planes fly... just not that well.
Really... you should think about what you're saying. You're really coming off like a simple minded dolt.
MiniD
The first 6 posts of the thread pretty much define what type of damage seperates a plane that falls from a plane that flies. Kind of makes you wonder who the simple minded dolt is eh?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I still think that if the opponent can manage no better than a neutral merge, turn after turn, he is just as good as I. If I can't gain angles, I have only myself to blame... that or, we both are flying the aircraft at peak efficiency.
Side Note: My comments went on to describe multi vs 1 situations and made reference to 1 v 1 only on the inital merge. So you are certianly not arguing with me.
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Mini D,
You are the one claiming you shoot anything with a red icon and if it still has one it means the job wasn't finished. By claiming that you are either saying A) I am a kill stealer or B) I don't understand what this thread is actually talking about.
Pick one.
We are not talking about people who shoot aircraft that are damaged, but still flying. That is all fine and is not kill stealing.
We are talking about people who shoot wingless or tailess wrecks that are plunging vertically towards the ground and are often trailing every kind of smoke the game has. Those people are kill stealing.
I have yet to see an aircraft in AH fly when it is missing its entire tail or a whole wing. Maybe you have, but in my experience those aircraft are no longer flying.
As to how easy it is to hit such a target, in my experience it is very easy. I base this on having finished off some of the wrecks I was responsible for and a few newbies who stalled perfectly good aircraft but couldn't get them out of a spin. In all cases they were easy targets.
BTW, the voltage quip was a Monty Python reference and not intended to be taken literally. (Dead parrot skit)
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Sandman, forget the pissing contest idea sir, I was just sharing my thoughts, as you were.
I want to make clear what I was talking about... initial merge only.
For instance, there you are in your hurri, with sufficient E. and you see a 190A8 bearing down on you off your 9. You're up on a routine base defense, let's say.. looking for goons. Now, as you turn into him, you have just a second or two to make a decision. Accept the HO and probably end up w/ a crippled or dead plane. Or, duck his HO, watch his follow up move.
If he turns hard, you're on him... if he keeps going, you keep your eye on him but look for targets that you can readily engage w/ your slow turner. Chances are, as an experienced pilot, you'd duck and look for the goon or other targets you could engage.(assuming he kept going)
Lots of guys now seem perfectly willing to take their one kill chance per flight by accepting that initial HO. People call it jousting... it's just not as fun as that: hair on fire-duck the cheryy picking la7-don't hit the hill-almost have the angle on him, furball type fighting.
People are going to miss the excitement if they never get past the merge. :)
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Oh, and I truly am flattered to be mentioned in the same breath as Drex and DMF. I feel it's only fair to keep things straight.
Drex and Todd(DMF) are very classy guys who get their kills by using unparallelled ACM.
I'm an ill-mannered(I mean well, just too competetive) sod who gets his kills by seeing a situation, knowing where the planes are going, and who I can get a shot at... call it SA... decision making.. whatever.
I MAY be effective like Drex Levi, , but I sure don't do it as beautifully as those two.
Thanks for the nice comment though, Sandman.
Oh, and Murdr, you may be landing kills in a d9, but I'll always think of you in that 38.
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Recently I've seen a lot of plane still "flying" after having read a system confirmation of the kill !!
Can it be related ?
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Oh, and Murdr, you may be landing kills in a d9, but I'll always think of you in that 38.
LOL, Snail posted a few years ago that I was a great bnzer, flew mainly in the 190, and did not stick around in bad odds...Go figure. Actually I still remember my first Dora flight when it was first modeled in AW2 open beta. My first 'in' resulted in a 1 pass kill. Man I love this plane i thought :)
My bad for not re-reading my post...It is an honor to be mentioned with Drex, AND/OR Levi:)
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So... this thread goes from blaming no-skill pilots on making somewhat skilled shots to a self stroking festival.
If you failed to kill the target, its not anyone else's fault what happens next... only your own. Its not someone else's fault the plane is still allive, despite your "technically" discription.
Its amazing what people will find to whine about these days. What a bunch of primpers.
Kill stealing.
Yeppers... afterall, you licked your fingers and touched it... right?
Feel free to send one of those wingless planes my way. I'll make you feel right at home.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Innominate
The player who did the most points of damage gets the kill.
Countless are the hard damaged buffs which i sent down in tumbling circles into a bunch of carrion-eaters.
I only get an assist for the hits of i.e. half wing and aileron.
That hurts for 10-15 sec.
And i use that moments for a little meditation in patience and gentleness.
Harder to handle are the fighterkillsteals.
But as i try to fly outside of the big streams, killsteals dont happen often to me.
Beeing gentle works best in such moments.In both ways: For your karma and for educating the stealer.
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Must be gentle...
GENTLE
GENTLE !
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I really like the “dibs” thing that seems to be happening...
Radio: “Spits mine!”
Yeah, you and the 5 others above it, but you called it over the radio first so it’s yours right?
I quit worrying about who was green around me a long time ago. If it’s red, in gun range, and gives the slightest hint it can fly. I put rounds in it and I won’t lay off the guns until I’m past it. If it happen to be falling at the time and it was one of Sax or Rude’s so much the better!
Saddle up on someone else and get over it.
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what is with all the kill stealing lately??? You gotta be kidding?
It is so simple a blind hubert could see it....
Make itso that there are no opportunities for good furgballs or melles.... make it so that the only viable survival tactic is steamrollering and gangbanging.... create an arena where, if you are lucky you see a con that isn't above you with 20 buddies oh, maybe once in 10 minutes and....
buddy.. you are gonna take a shot at that plane! you haven't seen anything you didn't have to run away from all night and now you are gonna put some ammo into that plane even though the other six guys are on it!
More fights equal less worry about such things... first off, if you have a lot of action you don't care so much if you lose one to a stealer because you are to BUSY rememeber busy? Also.. you won't find 8 guys on one con if there are a lot of playeres participatihng in a real furball.
The more you make these timid maps with their totally dweeby strat... the more dweeby crap you will see.
lazs
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I used to think that only the 13th were talented kill stealers....I was wrong.
The BK's are every bit as good as we are....they are not just kill stealers, but are proud brazen kill stealers who enjoy the total experience of air combat.
When others whine about getting their kill stolen, it just makes the whole effort that much more sweet of an experience.
Kill stealing only raises the game of those around you....I encourage kill stealing at every opportunity...the practice will enrich your life and send you on your way to becoming a complete human being.
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On kill stealing...............
Is the object of those poor individuals (who chase down an obviously crippled AC) to steal the kill of another?
or a pathetic attempt to hit an easier target?
Is the AC we have damaged always obviously crippled from the view of others?
Is theft the object of the cherry picker who zooms to take the kill of an (as yet) unwounded enemy we have worked to bring low and slow?
He knew what he was doing .............. was it theft or assistance?
AH does tend toward circumstances where several AC can be chasing one bogie........... what always surprises me is that more than one of these AC think they are the lead AC at any one time and attempt to shoot thru their compatriate.
But could lag cause more than one AC in a bunch to view theirs as being the lead?
When is a kill the property of one player over another?
On headons
It takes two to headon...............
Its "easy" to avoid a headon................
Its not always "easy" to gain the advantage over someone who is determined to continuously head on................... the perpetual "head on'er" can be a frustrating opponent, regardless of the respect lost for his tactic.
Just my views
and I have done (and been done to) them all at some time or another.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Why are there so many killstealers lately?
:rolleyes:
I'm sick of that crap.
Gunnery practice. Tough to hit a tail-less plane.
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A lot of you seem unclear on what I mean by kill stealing. Mini D in particular seems willfully ignorant.
I do not consider anybody who shoots a flyable aircraft, no matter how damaged it is, a kill stealer. I do not think calling dibs on that Spit or whatever actually give the dib caller rights to it. None of that is kill stealing. That is all shooting down the enemy.
Kill stealing is exclusively when a non flyable aircraft is shot up by somebody who did not render it unflyable for the mere purpose of out damaging the person who actually did the work and getting credit for something they didn't earn.
Note that my proposed solution did not even attempt to solve the type of "killstealing" that most people seem to assume I'm talking about.
Maybe it could be programmed so that once an aircraft was definately dead it's icon disappeared and the kill was awarded.
By definately dead I mean something like a whole wing missing, the whole tail missing or the horizontal stablizer missing. Aircraft in this category would lose their icons and the kill would be awarded.
An aircraft missing half a wing, the verticle stabilizer, both aelirons, both elevators, on fire or all engines would not count as a positive kill because aircraft in those conditions could conceivably fly home (at least to allow a bail out over friendly territory) or still be a threat to somebody by diving for speed. Aircraft in this category would still be fair game for anybody and everybody to shoot at.
Mini D,
Nowhere did I start saying what a great pilot I am. Frankly, I'm average. Maybe the people doing the killstealing are the great sticks you insinuate they are, but they sure aren't putting it to use doing what I'm talking about. I am not saying "I called dibs on that and they shot it!" or "I put a few bullets into it and that marked it as mine to play with and they interferred!". I do not believe that either of those scenarios are kill stealing. I am only talking about the people who shoot up aircraft that are obviously doomed. I can easily tell when an aircraft is doomed on my FE, regardless of who made it so. I refuse to believe that the game is somehow providing my FE with special, more detailed information. People who shoot up wingless or tailess aircraft are kill stealers. Period.
Even informing others in the area that said aircraft is dead, aka "Scratch the Spit!", doesn't have any effect on these people. FWIW, I never call an aircraft dead unless I know that it has taken fatal damage.
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Possession is 9/10's ya know...if it's in my sights, I'm steeeelin it!:)
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As crystal clear as the first time you related it karnak, mabey you are just using too many big words for some :D
BTW, didnt say that saying "Nik dead" or such always has an effect, but it does keep most honest.
Now I will go ponder the self strokingness of finding amusment in Steve finding it odd seeing me in a plane, that others say I fly too much. However I will not bang my head on my terminal as it seems to adversely affect reading comprehention.
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No karnack.. it was everyone else that started stroking each other because that's what a thread like this begets.
And I understand what you are trying to say... I just thing its pathetically stupid.
If you don't want someone to steal your kill then kill it more. If you can't do this, then don't make fun of those that can. It really is that simple. You just come off sounding like a poor pathetic 3rd grader that just had his ice cream stolen by a 2nd grader that was half his size.
MiniD
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Mini D, What's your problem with someone saying something complimentary about someone else, or acknowledging another pilot's prowess? Since you frequently debate in a deragotory tone, and since you really do seem jealous, I'm going to surmise that both are correct. Frankly, I don't see why either are necessary. Are you capable of just being nice, or are you such a small, bitter person that you are incapable of making any points on the boards without belittling others?
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I just make damn sure my victim blows up. If he doesn't, and someone steals the kill, I just blame myself for not finishing the job.
Also, if I know I've earned the kill, and see someone come in and try to steal, but the enemy plane is still "alive" after they're finished trying to steal it, I'll go back in and pour some more rounds into the plane to ensure that I get the kill (even if it's missing major parts).
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If the enemy plane is damaged to the point where it is no longer a threat to me, my team, or our base, I break off, and save my ammo for another fight.
If someone else gets the kill, so be it. I could care less. I fly away knowing I won the engagement, and did my best to help the team.
Everything else to me is just gravy.
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Originally posted by Steve
Mini D, What's your problem with someone saying something complimentary about someone else, or acknowledging another pilot's prowess?
My god... gem's like this don't come around often. I'm actually speachless.
Oh.. wait... its back now.
Was this thread started to commend pilot's prowess or to degrade those that weren't of sufficient prowess for those being critical in this thread?
Done the way it is in this thread, the term "elitism" enters the picture long before "prowess".
There are pilots I respect and pilots I don't... capabilities have nothing to do with it. Some are outstanding at ACM, others are not. You're defensiveness in this situation is duly noted.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Karnak
Kill stealing is exclusively when a non flyable aircraft is shot up by somebody who did not render it unflyable for the mere purpose of out damaging the person who actually did the work and getting credit for something they didn't earn.
So, if the purpose is not to gain credit for the kill, but rather to make the aircraft go out in a glorious explosion (as any good kill should) then it's not kill stealing? Good, I didn't think so either. ;)
SOB
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minid quote: "Was this thread started to commend pilot's prowess or to degrade those that weren't of sufficient prowess for those being critical in this thread?"
So you were insulting people because the thread took temporarily a path that was not directly related to the title? You better get busy, there are many threads that do just such a thing.
Another:"Done the way it is in this thread, the term "elitism" enters the picture long before "prowess". "
I specifically mentioned Drex's and Levi's abilities and behavior in the arena. How this smacks of elitism as opposed to how it relates to prowess is beyond me. I'd ask you to explain but I suspect it was just another way to throw in a negative comment.
Still another:"There are pilots I respect and pilots I don't... capabilities have nothing to do with it. Some are outstanding at ACM, others are not. You're defensiveness in this situation is duly noted."
Nobody was discussing "respect" in the arena at all. Since respect hadn't been brought up, there is no way I could have been defensive about it. I did briefly discuss Drex and Todd's skills and mannerisms. If you'd like to disagree with my opinion about them please do. Then, if I felt like discussing it with you, I would get defensive.
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Originally posted by Steve
I want to make clear what I was talking about... initial merge only.
Now this changes everything, and I'll tend to agree that anyone that takes an initial merge, rolls the dice and goes for the headon shot probably needs to rethink his tactics. :)
That is... unless I'm in a 110. Then, I'll definitely go pre-merge head on with anyone fool enough to allow it. :D
Fair enough?
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I suppose the damage award model could be modified as karnak suggests or even other ways......the trick is to make it simple.
I think certain conditions would have to apply...........
Lost a wing.
Lost both rear horzontal stab
If either of the above occurs the AC does not return any more damage points.
under the KISS principle what other damage conditions would inhibit damage points...........
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Sandman, fair enough. :)
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I am Sparticus!
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Originally posted by Drex
My personal rules.
1. Must kill the bandit my friends think they have.
2. Do not shoot at totally disabled planes.
3. Do shoot his chute.
Very easy rules.
Drex
Those rules are so stupid. You better hope I don't see you trying to ditch.
Press on with what you were doing, thx:)
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Originally posted by Mini D
I thought you said they couldn't hit anything.
Yessir.. they can't hit crap unless they're stealing a kill. Then they are suddenly aces.
Well.. whatever makes you feel better about yourself I suppose.
MiniD
We can always count upon you to be as sharp as a bowling ball...
Aircraft fluttering down are very easy to hit. Aircraft being flown at speed are another matter.
This isn't rocket science... Ok, for most of us it isn't.
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Originally posted by Steve
Oh, and I truly am flattered to be mentioned in the same breath as Drex and DMF. I feel it's only fair to keep things straight.
Drex and Todd(DMF) are very classy guys who get their kills by using unparallelled ACM.
I'm an ill-mannered(I mean well, just too competetive) sod who gets his kills by seeing a situation, knowing where the planes are going, and who I can get a shot at... call it SA... decision making.. whatever.
I MAY be effective like Drex Levi, , but I sure don't do it as beautifully as those two.
Thanks for the nice comment though, Sandman.
Oh, and Murdr, you may be landing kills in a d9, but I'll always think of you in that 38.
I don't care about the topic, your autofellatio virtual fighter pilot skilz post is hilarious.
Regardless...
1. I don’t like shooting a plane and having guys following it down to try and claim the kill. Just like the rest of you in the thread.
2. I don’t however get mad if someone that follows it down gets the kill, because if they do, it wasn’t damaged enough for me to get the kill. Not sure why, I guess it’s because it’s fair MA game.
That, and I have a button programmed for MG’s just to ping a kill going down, because all to often, after I fought the piss out of him, someone got the sure kill angle. Thats furballing. For no other reason at all, to see his callsign I fought.
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Is anoying knowing you have to put more rounds then necessary into a kill just to be assured some dweeb isn't going to steal it on the way down.
Why I like the Tiffie, one hit and the only thing left is dust. Assists are near impossible.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by lazs2
what is with all the kill stealing lately??? You gotta be kidding?
It is so simple a blind hubert could see it....
Make itso that there are no opportunities for good furgballs or melles.... make it so that the only viable survival tactic is steamrollering and gangbanging.... create an arena where, if you are lucky you see a con that isn't above you with 20 buddies oh, maybe once in 10 minutes and....
buddy.. you are gonna take a shot at that plane! you haven't seen anything you didn't have to run away from all night and now you are gonna put some ammo into that plane even though the other six guys are on it!
More fights equal less worry about such things... first off, if you have a lot of action you don't care so much if you lose one to a stealer because you are to BUSY rememeber busy? Also.. you won't find 8 guys on one con if there are a lot of playeres participatihng in a real furball.
The more you make these timid maps with their totally dweeby strat... the more dweeby crap you will see.
lazs
Lol, god bless ya Laz, but you are starting to sound like Weazel. And I’m not prompting you to step on my tail. I just notice that everything you talk about is low furballing, nothing else, like it’s what anyone playing this game should achieve. That’s kinda a weird obsession.
Sure, it has its merits, but when it consumes your every post? Kinda like once Bush is gone, what’s Weazel going to do? Make his bbs moniker a “?” graphic and sit around miffed, with no current pResident quotes linked graphics of anti-bush cartoons to posts here?
Im guilty of goofing on people thrusted by 12 Budweiser’s of animosity just to get a reaction, but come on. It’s at least varied and topic specific. I'll work on that considering.
You furball , super. If you can’t furbal to your liking, move on from Aces High. Seems like you can though.
Give the HTC BBS a break.
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I thought the point of this game was to turn the enemy planes into confetti and everything that moves a situation towards that end is legit. Well, if not for the game and those that think their **** don't stink, then it is by my standards. If someone steals my kills, fine. Why should I care? I get my share. I think many in this thread get their share of kills as well even without the stolen ones. These self-professed experts always make me laugh. IT IS A GAME PEOPLE. It is meant to be enjoyed. Why on earth they worry about a few kills here and there being stolen escapes me.
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Creamo You talk about autofellatio a bit much. As a heterosexual, it makes me uncomfortable. In the future, if you want to blow yourself, or talk about others doing so, leave me out ok? Your phallic fixation is your business, but not my cup of tea.
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Originally posted by Mathman
IT IS A GAME PEOPLE. It is meant to be enjoyed.
Exactly. What do I care about about a couple kills a tour? I just enjoy being obnoxious with the perps. :D (think I read somewhere that may be bad for my karma though :eek: )
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I'm a killstealer, usually it's a furball. I'm towing a line of spits and La7's getting in each other's way trying to kill me. I fly through where the action is thickest shooting at any red icon who crosses my path. Then I see a Corsair going vertical (the fool) right in front of me so I shoot, seeing strikes and flash past noticing he has no tail, uh oh :( . I get the kill but even the victim has a whine at me on Ch 1. Well sooooooooorrrrrrry:rolleyes: So shoot me!
That's what happens in the heat of the hunt. Maybe it's my video settings but usually by the time I get close enough to see the details it's too late. I can't read icons either until close. Unless he's on fire, you can't always tell.
Nine times out of ten that is what happens. You do see the real kill stealers attacking a spinning or burning aircraft. But it's only a game.
It used to happen in real combat flying all the time to the frustration of fighter pilots. Everyone would shoot at a bomber or whatever and all would claim the kill. Shared kills were common.
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Kill stealing - I try not to, I don`t care much if someone got "my" kill.
Idiots that will get into my line of fire when I`m in a deadly position suck.
I`m not talking about accidentally crossing a snapshot from my Mausers. It`s about the guys that will overtake into my tracers.
Ok, you shoot him dead in front of my guns - no problem. But please, get the f**k out of my LOF if you`re the 3rd one to appear to party. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Originally posted by devious
Ok, you shoot him dead in front of my guns - no problem. But please, get the f**k out of my LOF if you`re the 3rd one to appear to party.
Kill faster.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Mathman
I thought the point of this game was to turn the enemy planes into confetti and everything that moves a situation towards that end is legit. Well, if not for the game and those that think their **** don't stink, then it is by my standards. If someone steals my kills, fine. Why should I care? I get my share. I think many in this thread get their share of kills as well even without the stolen ones. These self-professed experts always make me laugh. IT IS A GAME PEOPLE. It is meant to be enjoyed. Why on earth they worry about a few kills here and there being stolen escapes me.
Not to go off topic...aw, screw you guys, I'm going off topic..
Mathman, I would really appreciate it if you have a free 30 mins. to meet me in the TA or DA so I can see what you do in that F6F.
After reading your pages, I think I've learned all I can about my plane of choice, and I'd like to watch you work and see if I can pick up a tip or 2. I've asked around about who can teach me more about the Hellcat, and the answer is always the same..."Mathman".
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Originally posted by Steve
Creamo You talk about autofellatio a bit much. As a heterosexual, it makes me uncomfortable. In the future, if you want to blow yourself, or talk about others doing so, leave me out ok? Your phallic fixation is your business, but not my cup of tea.
READ- OWNED.
You'll get over it.
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Creamo, where can I get a pair of rose colored, reality altering glasses? I suppose they double as protective eyewear for you, for the times when you miss a shot and get jizz shooting at your eyes.
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Steve I agree with you and I dont think it will ever change. After the first merge sometimes guys meet nose to nose or a HO I try to avoid and other will shoot me down alot. I say to myself I should have poked my nose at him and shot as well. These HOs are diff. then the typical HOs that happen at first merge. I have many films of guys going for the HO but miss and others get me while I try going under or breaking and that really pisses me off. Ive come to the conclusion sometimes its HO or be HOed. Ive had a few pilots Ive fought that they dont take the shot so I wont either in respect, since they didnt. These pilots value life as much I do I guess and I love meeting these guys one on ones. The it takes 2 to HO is true on the first merge in my opion but after that first merge its HO or be HOed from what I found out. Not evertime I fight I run into this but usally at least once a night. My rule is if my nose got around first I fire and if its a tie I wait for him to fire first then Ill fire and usally die and squeak on channel 1 about him being a HO dweeb lol.
Perk the 51 and La7!!!! :D
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As far as coming down on a enemy with alt and he pokes his nose up to HO me, that dont bother me because I could have pulled up and I would do same thing if in his sitution. But coming down on a guy its easier for me to kill him then him to kill me in a HO sitution from what Ive experienced
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Ok, you wont get over it.
If you want to be as effective as Drex Steve, just don't post.
It's the diffrence between being good, and being a goofed on punk.
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Creamo, at least as far as AH goes, you wouldn't know what being good is, having never experienced it first hand. Now, take your unhappiness at never really being any good at this game and move along. Your dissatisfaction about your own shortcomings in the game become somewhat evident by the way your rail against those who express their feelings about the success of others.
Like any sport or game, most people enjoy AH more when they "win" with some sort of regularity. Not everyone is like this and hopefully, you're an exception to this rule, otherwise you must be unhappy about this game indeed, having rarely had any real success in it.
The fact is, Drex and Levi have had success in the game and, to a certain degree, so have I. Having improved at the game and garnering some success makes it all the more enjoyable for me.
Like I said, I MAY be effective like Drex and Todd, it's for others to decide, not me. As I stated, I do not consider myself to be in their company as far as skill in the game, but it was sure nice to be mentioned along with them.
I can only assume your assinine remarks stem for jealousy over the fact that you will never be any good at AH. Kind of silly really, unless your failure to become an experten here reflects your life as a whole. If this is the case, your behavior is truly understandable, being an overall failure would make just about anyone bitter and petty.. If this isn't the case; let it go, it's just a game.
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I hear ya mia... although if I was in a big ol' p38 w/ those nose guns, I might not refuse an HO from a guy that really wanted one.
:)
Murdr brings up a good point though: those that rely on that HO are easy kills. Still it's more exciting, win or lose to get in a fight that's intense enough to leave your hands sweating. There is a nice list of folks I run into that hand me my arse, but it's always more exciting than the easy kill. I used to run into Mathman a lot when I was a bish, I would consider it a moral victory if I lived long enough to tangle, then disengage from him, tail tucked but more educated.
Shane. Lazerus, and Drex have all schooled me recently. after the fights I just sort of sat at my computer, duly impressed. Haven't run into Todd lately, just means I have a couple less deaths.
Anyway, it's nice to know that there are still some real talented sticks out there... ya just need to be lucky(unlucky) enough to run into them
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Creamo, at least as far as AH goes, you wouldn't know what being good is, having never experienced just your hand.
Im Delicious, like Candy Corn. Now, take your unhappiness at never really being any good at this game and smoke a bong. You aren’t a fighter pilot like Drex, and I am like Drex. Your dissatisfaction about your own shortcomings in the game become somewhat evident by the way your rail against those who express their feelings about the sex with mothers. I have a cat, his name is jinx.
Like any sport or game, most people enjoy AH more when they "win" with some sort of regularity. Sometimes, I look for a job. Not everyone is like this and hopefully, you're an exception to this rule, otherwise you must be unhappy about this game indeed, having rarely had any real success in it. I eat poop.
The fact is, Drex and Levi have have sex in the game and, to a certain degree, so have I.
Having improved at the game and garnering some self-sex makes it all the more enjoyable for me.
Like I said, I MAY be effective like Drex and Todd, it's for others to decide, not me. As I stated, I do not consider myself to be straight in their company as far as skill in the game, but it was sure nice to be mentioned along with them naked
Originally posted by Steve
.
Wow, really.
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Drex?? That nOOb! :p :D ;)
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Creamo Steve, take the Egos to the DA .. That way --->
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Steve obviously knows nothing. The reality is that Drex and Levi are both a couple of little perverts. I know for a fact that Drex collects barbie dolls and when not flying AH, he loves to spend hours combing their hair with a little pink plastic brush and dressing them up in new outfits he trades for at his local Barbie Club meetings. As for Levi, I won't go any further than to say that his other hobbies include sniffing urinal cakes and wearing pasties with glittery tassels, but only because I don't want to make anyone queasy. There should be laws against the likes of these two ... well, in more states than just Utah and Alabama anyhow.
SOB
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SOB, thanks for straightening me out. Maybe one day Drex and I can get together and play barbies. I have this great malibu barbie beach house........
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Skill! (http://www.dbstaines.com/images/MiniDKS.ahf)
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Originally posted by Stringer
I am Sparticus!
No! I am Spartacus!
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/54/039_6059.jpg)
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Not a fan of steve but... his assesment of his skills or... more accurately, lack of skills compared to drex and levi... is pretty much true. He is an opportunist not a dogfighter.. nothing wrong with that... room in the game for everyone.
creamo.. don't worry... unlike weazel, I can allways find something that needs improving. I just work on the most obvious first. I guess my real "bush" is boredom.. Something that you seem to have a little trouble with yourself. Maybe if the game got a little more fun again you might even enjoy it again. maybe not.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BKs
home of drex, apache, hoolign, levi, xdak etc.
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Ok...I'm confused.
Is it or is it not ok to steal another persons kill?
I want to follow protocol so I can have friends here and be loved and admired.
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All that's really important, Rude, is that you love and admire yourself on a regular basis.
MiniD
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If someone wants to finish off a dying enemy plane I popped, let'em. I've got enough kills already. I'm just concerned about keeping the barbarians from getting to my homeland.
I'll push an HO merge if I think I can win it. Curiously, most of the HO's I see coming at me are in Spitfires, LA7s, and N1K2s. My eight .50cals, or four 20mm, or single 30mm with twin 20mm gun pods are usually sufficient to deal with these types of attacks. I'll dodge the ones I think I'll lose, such as when I'm in an FM2, P-51B, or Yak9U.
I'll engage a higher enemy plane if I get bored with charging into hordes of barbarians doing their P-51D and Typhoon base porkage runs.
One thing I've noticed about the BigIsles map is the dependence on carriers for base capture. The actual capture might come from a C47, but the fighter suppression usually has a carrier involved.
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hehe speaking of Drex I flew a 51 lastnight and was engaing 3 low cons with a anthoer friendly 51 started at 15k and ened up going down to 5k. I really learned that the climb power of the 38 is really nice compared the 51. I tryed staying fast because was fighting a f6f and a niki. I went after the f6f he broke I pulled up looked back and f6f 400 out then 425 then I was in tower :-(. You were shot down by drex. Hehe guess he turned back and guess my E didnt get me out of that one <
>
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Mia no shame there, Drex is extremely adept at ducking, then getting back into position for a mid to long range trailing shot, and he is also very good at landing hits under those circumstances. Frenchy, ammo and lftfoot are REALLY good at this in the Jug. And Shane does that in his LA7. This is a move AKAK is pretty good at too(especially when he has his tracers off), but I don't see him try it often. Most others simply can't pull it off so these guys sometimes catch me taking it for granted that I can loiter in gun range to set up a rope..I know I've hooked one of the good ones because they don't waste time chewing pieces off my plane. :)
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Originally posted by Mini D
All that's really important, Rude, is that you love and admire yourself on a regular basis.
MiniD
Well, if you haven't noticed, I've always been stricken by me!
It's the acceptance of others I hunger for.
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Originally posted by Stringer
I am Sparticus!
Oh yea? Well I am Asparagus!
(http://www.asparagusfest.com/images/guss.JPG)