Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Halo on June 22, 2003, 11:35:05 AM
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What is the most outrageous defensive move you make to get your guns on someone who attacks you in a superior aircraft with superior speed and alt?
What is your surefire alltime best secret to turn the tables on an attacker who started with all the advantages?
And finally, is this move capable of being done in real life aircraft or only in a computer simulation?
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Drag to friendlies ;)
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That one's easy. Can be seen in the MA all day.
HO.
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I'd guess Alt-F4 . I've seen some bombers use that in the MA.
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If it is any plane other than La7 I try every move, scissors, sliceback, barrel-roll, and so on....sometimes I have good results in trying a hard reverse.
If its a La-la-dweeb, experience teaches it is better to fly straight and slow, so you can reup in less time....;)
Yes, you can record this as a whine:p
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What is the most outrageous defensive move you make to get your guns on someone who attacks you in a superior aircraft with superior speed and alt?
HO :p
Bozon
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Come on everyone it's definately a fricken reversal...it's not that hard to pull off and if you work on it you can keep some E up to fight the guy still. Yes, I am DEFINATELY sure this can be done in real life, but you would be pretty dissy after doing it.
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If I told you, I would have to use it then kill you ;).
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A gentle turn while their coming in, tightening as they get closer, then a loop after you're just about heading in their direction. Odds are they'll turn at you and bleed all of their E, and you'll be right behind them.
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Charge'em. If you lose, they get very little perk points. If you win, its a bonanza. If you both lose, you still won because you were in the inferior aircraft and therefore won the battle of the tape, kinda like if David got his skull split open by Goliath's falling sword after Goliath took a rock to the head.
That's one of the many reasons I fly the P51B and P47D. I can HO all day and still feel morally superior to all of the Spit IX, N1K2, and LA7 flyers. :p
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Originally posted by wetrat
A gentle turn while their coming in, tightening as they get closer, then a loop after you're just about heading in their direction. Odds are they'll turn at you and bleed all of their E, and you'll be right behind them.
I see a lot of Spit pilots pull that manuever. I just keep going after the merge and get some distance from them as they try to accellerate after the turn drains their energy. A few times of this routine and they either end up on the deck or get frustrated and charge into my guns.
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As a zeke pilot I find myself in the position of fighting a bogey that has greater speed, better guns, but can't turn as well. Here is what I try to do:
1) Set them up so they are on my long six with an altitude advantage. (gives them a false sense of security, especially if they notice I am giving them an alt advantage.)
2) Start a gradual level turn and as they get closer tighten the turn so that your starting to blackout. You want to be flying at a 90 angle to their turning aircraft before going to step 3.
3) When they are just entering the 1K range, roll inverted and perform a split-S. (they should be in in your straight up view). You know you have timed it perfect if you see them firing and missing you, but you don't have to cut it that close.
4) Pull up into a vertical climb immediately from the Split-S and check your rear view, rolling in the direction they are turning. Whichever way the bogie turns just pull back inverted onto his six. In most cases they are either flying straight blacked out or still in a turn blacked out and low on E.
5) Roll out and take the shot.
This works about 80% of the time. When it doesn't it is because the bogie did not tighten his turn with you and zoomed away to try again. At that point you know you have an ace on the other line and the fight gets fun. This tactic also works best when at a relatively low alt (around 3 to 4k) to prevent the bogie from diving away from you and getting out of gun range before the reversal.
This tactic will even work when fighting the same type aircraft. You just have to make sure they have more alt and are closing fast on you so that you can out turn them.
Hope this helps!
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I've seen some guys pulling horrible intentional stalls lately in defense. Anything with a really harsh stall (F4U, La5/7) seems to be prime. They wait till you come up on them then intentionally yank the stick into a warping snap stall.. then try to recover after you overshoot them. Only seen about 50% of them recover from that move though at low altitudes... so I guess it does carry some significant risk :) It's not on my list of favored defensive maneuvers.
-Soda
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Originally posted by Soda
I've seen some guys pulling horrible intentional stalls lately in defense. Anything with a really harsh stall (F4U, La5/7) seems to be prime. They wait till you come up on them then intentionally yank the stick into a warping snap stall.. then try to recover after you overshoot them. Only seen about 50% of them recover from that move though at low altitudes... so I guess it does carry some significant risk :) It's not on my list of favored defensive maneuvers.
-Soda
You're right. It is difficult to use at low alt. I only do this when I am out of options. It works quite well if you have alt and the guy on your six is too aggressive. At low alt I've hit the ground a few times so yup it is risky :-)
But I prefer to use a lot of opposite rudder when doing this
Acetnt
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Oedipus everyone knows that only works when they're vulching!;)
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I just stay fast.... Let them get close & do a defensive barrel roll just as they hit guns range.... Timing is everything, but when done properly, they're dog food. Is very satisfying too....
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head towards a hillside, so the nme augers after he tries to bnz you, or he'll yank hard and loose his e and loose sight of you for a few prescious seconds as he concentrates on missing the ground. Works quite well on trinity especially on 109's and other nasty compressing planes :D
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My most outrageous defensive move is to cause my plane to fly in all directions at once in very small pieces, followed by a large fireball. Of course, this only works once per flight. :)
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Heh, good one, Blue Mako. I definitely relate to that. However, most of my opponents are environmentally correct and conserve ammo. Thus I have more time to contemplate what went wrong as I twirl backwards to earth minus tail structure.
Since air combat is basically get guns on opponent or lose, I'm going to switch all my fighter guns from forward firing to rear firing as soon as I can find that option in setup.
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Halo, you might consider turning on the option of pelting your enemy with aircraft parts! Start with elevators, rudders, ailerons, and if that fails just bleed all over his cockpit so he can't see! Works for me!! :D
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Did see something that reminded me of old Fighter Ace days, came down in a P51 on a Nik1's six and gave him a squirt and he started to barrel roll....very slowly...then to slow himself down even more he dropped his under carriage......I went zipping by him but got the view of him stalling out at 200 feet and exploding.......ahhhh the SATISFACTION!!! used to hate those dweebs who thought that no stalls and no physics meant that they were hot shot FIGHTER pilots.
Made my day.
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In the yak, if things are looking very bad, the most extreme D move I use is:
a slip to the right (full left rudder, attitude corrected with stick inputs) and as they correct their aim I roll left, then push a few negative Gs before rolling under (still to the left) and starting a scissor. If they stay to fight you, you can get a few snapshots at least, if they extend to reset, you do a 0g extension of your own, and try to make it closer to home before the next pass.
If I'm going 300+, I'll usually just do a slow barrell roll, to keep some speed and a forward angle, and usually a shot op as the banit flys through. If they try to stay with the roll, you can usually get them into a scissor fight. In fact, most of my fights end in a scissor lol.
-Sik
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The wonski-feint... (see Harry Potter and the goblet of fire) for the explaination of it , LA7's always turn into lawn darts .
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pick up a lot of speed, wait till my opponent is a couple hundred yards off my six, level out, bail, and watch him slam into my now momentarily stationary aircraft.
BWHAHAHA!!
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I go for the HO or run to Ack.
Defense! Defense!!
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One time My aircraft got shot up. My plane was smoking and I knew my engine would go out in 5 minutes or so. However, none of my control surfaces were damaged. I went into an intentional stall. It seemed to work because the guy thought he shot me down and I was twirling down to the ground, but then I recovered, he flew past me, and with my smoking plane I shot him down. Totally faked him out into thinking he shot me down.
If you are lucky enough to have no controls damaged but you are smoking, try to make him think he blew your elevator off or something:D
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ok i'm a dweeb for admitting this, but most outrages is a gentle climb knowing im dead and how enemy gaining on me , usually this is when im rtb do to lack of brains to save any ammo, as they gain i chop the throttle and force the to ram my plane from behind , they go boom, i go land.
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easiest one to learn is the 'Galland dive' someone dives on your 6 just drop your nose a bit to accel then at 800-1100 yrd depending on the attackers speed push the stick full forward keeping power on full, when you hear his eng passing you pull up with less force to avoid blackout and its pretty easy to acquire him because he has so much speed he cannot maneuver from your 11-1 view. then give him an enema.
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Negative G Barrel Roll/Rolls in a 109 followed by a hard Positive G turn when you time it right...
Most likely the bad guy will adjust to your negative g flopping then you throw him off with hard nose low turn..
Combined with rudder to slideslip during your vulnrable time when going from negative to positive g you have a excellent chance to force a overshoot..
Use the rudder as a break if necessary..
I know it may not sound that outrageous but when tracking someone doing this youll have new respect for them...
Note you can use this with any fighter aircraft but is most effective with ones that have a strong rudder and negative G characteristics.
DoctorYo
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hehehe, my best one, course it probably only works once..
Had an lame7 following my typhie after dropping eggs on their VH. I came down from about 10K, dropped at about 4K pulled out right on the deck with a ton of smash. Following the terrain, I made my exit
Well, the la followed me down and was slooooowly gaining ground on me. He got in guns range (d400) and started firing. I jinked and sideslipped until he got REALLY close. Keep in mind I am following terrain the whole time time, prolly 50 feet off the deck.
He gets to about d100 or so (this guy was a TERRIBLE SHOT)Chop throttle to zero, pull up and SMACK!!!!
LA7 overshoot and hits the hill right in front of me.....
I laughed all the way home on that one.
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Heh, some excellent descriptions in this thread, but I'm kinda surprised noone has mentioned a hammerhead stall. A couple times, especially in CT, I've seen a few of the best sticks apparently do something like that.
When zooming up after the bandit in a loop, the bandit appears to suddenly twist back behind me. Not always able to get guns on me, but certainly frustrates my pursuit.
I'm thinking it must be some variation of the hammerhead because usually I retain more energy and am thus able to disengage far enough to return at an advantage -- IF I don't succumb to a deflective shot first.
The move seems more severe than the turn and loop some describe, and more planned than just a severe stall.
IF a hammerhead is agile enough to twist within a complete circle, seems it would be an ideal defense. Then again, I'm not even sure if real hammerheads are possible in AH. Are they?
Anybody seen or use this sort of defense manuever?
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Originally posted by Halo
IF a hammerhead is agile enough to twist within a complete circle, seems it would be an ideal defense. Then again, I'm not even sure if real hammerheads are possible in AH. Are they?
Anybody seen or use this sort of defense manuever?
i do. but it's more offensive than defensive.