Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on June 23, 2003, 04:47:32 PM
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I was of the understanding it had something to do with the usage of a plane, but I don't think that is possible. Is it based on percieved performance and usage? Just for example, here are some things I find odd.
La-7 39,606 kills Eny 15
P-51D 37,516 kills Eny 10
Spit IX 41,764 kills Eny 10
109G10 12,159 kills Eny 21
190D9 14,467 kills Eny 18
110G2 7,743 kills Eny 20
So, the 109 gets about 1/3rd as many kills as the La-7, and is about half as good a plane... and the ENY is 6 points higher. The 190D9 also gets about 1/3rd as many kills, isn't even in the same league as an La-7, and is 3 points higher. The 110G2 actually gets LESS kills than the 109 does... and has a lower ENY. Furthermore... why is the P-51s ENY lower than the La-7s? It isn't anywhere near as good a plane, and the usage is about the same. Shouldn't they both have the same ENY?
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It's based randomly on whatever someone at HTC felt it should be set at.
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Its all part of the "Great Conspiracy".
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Yea, thats what I figured too Sling, but you aren't allowed to say that kind of thing around here you know... you'll get banned.
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I think the ENY values need to be played with some. Like there should be a direct correlation between usage and the ENY value, not some half-assed system where the planes that don't get any use but HTC thinks are 'too good' still get shafted as far as ENY values. I don't think it would be bad at all to keep the La-7 at say 5 ENY, then take it from here. Top unperked plane and all the perk planes get an ENY of 5. The rest of the planes get their ENY value assigned based on how much use they see relative to the top plane. I think it would be a great deal of fun to land a 5 kill sortie in a 202 and get 500 perks. It might even be enough fun that people might use something other than the spit/n1k/la7/p51 that was omnipresent.
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You mean a top gun like yourself actually cares how many perks you earn? I would have thought someone with your skills wouldn't care about ENY values as you can get a ton of kills and earn as many perks as you want in whatever plane you choose to fly.
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Yea, but is fun looking at how many perks you get at the end of every sortie.
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Well, you want a great way to earn a ton of perks in low ENY value planes? Try flying for the country that is outnumbered by a large margin by the other two countries. I think the Germans did that in WW2, just look at the scores for Hartmann. Talk about perk ratio!
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If you'd bother to look through the 'score' page, you'll see which countries I fly for. I know, you guys are allergic to the score page, for good reason I might add.
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And that means exactly what? I know I am being dense here, but maybe you could enlighten me as to what about my score sucks? I haven't looked, but I know you did, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it here. Please, Omnipotent Urchin, tell me how I can be as good as you. Tell me what I can do so that I will want to look at my scores.
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Math, I think Urchin is commenting on how the conspiracy has porked the score system, not how you're bad at ranking.
I agree, the ENY values are completely bogus. It would be trivial to change, and it might make an immediate improvement to gameplay. Unfortunatly, I don't think HTC gives a flying fork because otherwise they would have already spent the 20 minutes needed to make the change.
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Oh, I've got no idea what your score is. I meant if you looked at mine, you'd see what countries I fly for. Since that is exactly what I said the first time, I'd have to agree that you are, in fact, being dense.
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Urchin,
The problem with making the ENY directly proportional is that you end up with a few problems:
1) Unpopular, but very potent, fighters like the Fw190D-9, Bf109G-10 and Yak-9U become free perk gatherers because their ENY values are so far removed from their performance.
2) Potent but practically never used aircraft get way, WAY too many perk points for relatively easy tasks. For example, shooting down a Spitfire Mk IX (42,000 kills) in a Mosquito (2,500 kills) would yield 16.8 perk points in a directly proportianal system.
Keep in mind also that the ENY values have not been updated in a long time and when they were last set the Spitfire Mk IX and P-51D were trading off fro 1st and 2nd places with the N1K2 following in third and the La-7 way back in 4th. Now the La-7 has surpassed the P-51D and is moving up on the Spitfire Mk IX.
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Another thing, it seems to me that HTC sets the ENY based on three things:
1) The aircraft's usage in the MA.
2) HTC's estimate of the potency of the aircraft regardless of how popular it is.
3) Wild assed guesses set before the aircraft is added (P-40E, F4U-1) and absentmindedness (Fw190F-8).
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Originally posted by Urchin
Oh, I've got no idea what your score is. I meant if you looked at mine, you'd see what countries I fly for. Since that is exactly what I said the first time, I'd have to agree that you are, in fact, being dense.
You are so right, how could anyone misunderstand what you are saying about scores and crap in the following post:
If you'd bother to look through the 'score' page, you'll see which countries I fly for. I know, you guys are allergic to the score page, for good reason I might add.
I see what you are getting at with the countries you fly for. Fine, nice to see that my earlier advice was not needed.
Its the bold part that has me confused. Again, could you please explain what you meant by that statement. Also, could you clarify what you mean by "you guys."
Thanks.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Urchin,
The problem with making the ENY directly proportional is that you end up with a few problems:
1) Unpopular, but very potent, fighters like the Fw190D-9, Bf109G-10 and Yak-9U become free perk gatherers because their ENY values are so far removed from their performance.
And the problem with leaving it as it is is you have 'very potent' fighters fighters that are unpopular for a reason (the reason being they aren't as potent as the top fighters) that go unused because the reward (granted perk points isn't much of a reward) is totally out of whack with the performance you are giving up by flying a second-rate plane in an arena full of first-rate ones.
2) Potent but practically never used aircraft get way, WAY too many perk points for relatively easy tasks. For example, shooting down a Spitfire Mk IX (42,000 kills) in a Mosquito (2,500 kills) would yield 16.8 perk points in a directly proportianal system.
GOOD! Do you think this might lead to the Mosquito getting used more often? I do, which is why I think a directly proportional system would add at least SOME dynamic to an otherwise stale and stagnant game. Of course, someone would have to take the time to change the perk values every so often, so that they remained accurate and proportional, but I don't think it would be to difficult a task. Heck, I bet someone could write a program to keep track of the relevant statistics, and have that program update the ENY's once a day.
Keep in mind also that the ENY values have not been updated in a long time and when they were last set the Spitfire Mk IX and P-51D were trading off fro 1st and 2nd places with the N1K2 following in third and the La-7 way back in 4th. Now the La-7 has surpassed the P-51D and is moving up on the Spitfire Mk IX.
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Mathman, stop talking back to your betters.
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Damn... I'd challenge urchin to a 1:1 to defend my squaddie... but every time I beat him he whines like a little girl. Has that always been because you were looking at gooseggs in the perk points screen urchin?
MiniD
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Deja, thanks for your interest and for your valuable addition to the thread. Now run on back to your dollhouse like a good girl.
Also... refresh my memory.. when exactly did you 'beat' me? No last night doesn't count, although you are getting a lot better at it. I gave your pimp an extra $5 for that.
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That's exactly what you said the last time I shot you down Urchin. And I'm sure this time it didn't help it grow any more either.
How can us lessers learn from you if you insist on being such a dolt? We already know how to do that.
MiniD
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No Deja.... when WAS the last time you shot me down? I don't think its been recently, I could be wrong though. I vaguely remember you crowing about killing me once about two years ago, you still bragging about that one?
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Originally posted by Mini D
Damn... I'd challenge urchin to a 1:1 to defend my squaddie... but he'd just kick my bellybutton all over the place.. and then I would have to shut my mouth, so I'll just sit here and dream about being good enough to.
MiniD
By the way Mini -D... shouldn't your post read more like above?
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You guys actually care about perk points? For what reason? Do you think some clown in an LA7 cares about his perk points? Maybe, but he will crash and burn in his perk-plane when he tries to fly it like an LA7, which is all he knows how to fly.
It's a thorn in my side for sure. Why is my Mustang ranked with such a low ENY value, lower than the dweeb king LA7? Give me a break HTC.
You know what the problem really is? HTC doesn't care too much about AH, because AHII is coming out soon (we think). So why bother to mess with AH? There's not any other WWII flight sim that can compete, so where will the customers go? I guess they'll stay right here and wait, like good boys and girls, until AHII comes out.
Do we a more dynamic perk system? Yes. Will HTC make it while AH 1 is still here? No.
My opinion. Make all the late war planes perked. Just give them an ENY value where they can make up the perks while flying them. If it costs me 10 perks to get a P-51D, fine. But if I get a 10 kill sortie in it, I would hope that I am making at least 5 more perks. That means if I can manage 20 kills, I can afford to loose 1 P-51D. I can live with perks like that.
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Originally posted by Urchin
why is the P-51s ENY lower than the La-7s?
I think this is a valid point...... La7 ENY should be lower than the 51D and near if not equal to the Spit 9.............
There are some others too...........
C205, La5FN, Yak9U all seem too high to me........ but I am using my judgement of their lethality.
I didnt realise that ENY was somehow modified by popularity.
I prefer a version of Midnights suggestion above ..... although 20 seems a bit high.........
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jees mathman did you read this thread and just decide to argue with urchin to turn the thread into a mindless arguement and avoid actually agreeing that urchin has a point?
I see more and more of this childish tactic being used. Basically first you jump into the thread.You make a veiled insult, try to stereotype the poster into one of several groups, say 'score potato' or 'luftwaffle' or 'poor flyer' etc etc. Then the poster is pretty much forced to argue back.The subject is ignored because the thread degenerates into purile nonsense.
We see this tactic used instead of the old methods because htc finally stated they were sick of the mood these posts were creating.For a while we got real civil discussions but just lately its slipping back into the old ways.
Mathman im not saying you are doing this and i hope im wrong for thinking this but this is how it appears.For instance mathman, notice how you didnt actually give your opinion on the subject.Instead you berate urchin for even caring about ENY values and your arguement?? astoundingly its 'urchin you are so good in those planes that the eny shouldnt bother you'. Now am i wrong? is this as obvious a ploy to just annoy urchin as it seems? or is this purely the best you could come up with to disrupt the thread? Now you seem intent on making urchin spend his time discussing what he meant by a line that has no relevance to the thread subject.
Hmm lets see, I feel like disrupting anything urchin posts, why not use the ol' 2 squadies hijack routine? you know where me and a squadie post in his threads and start a totally different discussion and turn the thread into a meaningless slang match......
ENY value is part of this game. At the moment there are an awful lot of strange ENY values. Either HTC needs to give people an idea why they are set that way and put our minds at rest OR they need to do a little adjustment. Urchin IM sure would be satisfied if HTC said either 'Its set the way we feel is fair' or ' it needs adjustment but we havent had the time'.
when you think about it its not really such a huge request.Id like to know myself why the 190f8 and 190a8 are so different in ENY.
Its been asked a lot but no ones ever explained it. Maybe a breif description of how ENY's are decided would help.
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Originally posted by Midnight
You guys actually care about perk points? For what reason? Do you think some clown in an LA7 cares about his perk points? Maybe, but he will crash and burn in his perk-plane when he tries to fly it like an LA7, which is all he knows how to fly.
It's a thorn in my side for sure. Why is my Mustang ranked with such a low ENY value, lower than the dweeb king LA7? Give me a break HTC.
You know what the problem really is? HTC doesn't care too much about AH, because AHII is coming out soon (we think). So why bother to mess with AH? There's not any other WWII flight sim that can compete, so where will the customers go? I guess they'll stay right here and wait, like good boys and girls, until AHII comes out.
Do we a more dynamic perk system? Yes. Will HTC make it while AH 1 is still here? No.
My opinion. Make all the late war planes perked. Just give them an ENY value where they can make up the perks while flying them. If it costs me 10 perks to get a P-51D, fine. But if I get a 10 kill sortie in it, I would hope that I am making at least 5 more perks. That means if I can manage 20 kills, I can afford to loose 1 P-51D. I can live with perks like that.
have to say i agree 100% with you midnight but it would still be better in my opinion if the easy to use aircraft scored a lot less than the trickier ones.At the moment the ENY values seem a bit 'off' :) make it like you said, late war stuff takes a long time to earn even small perk amounts.