Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wilfrid on June 24, 2003, 03:08:07 AM
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Seems like a death or two every other day (http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/)
Does the media in the US still report these? Have they lost interest?
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It's kind of a war.. big deal.. in a real war there'd be few times more daily casualties
Looking the casualties in detail, quite lot of those fatalities have occured from non combat incidents
The unluckiest bunch:
"The Department of Defense announced today that Pfc. Jesse A. Givens, 34, of Springfield, Mo., was killed on May 1, 2003, in Al Habbaniyah, Iraq. Givens was parked in an M-1 main battle tank alongside the bank of the Euphrates River. The riverbank gave way resulting in the tank falling into the river. "
"The Department of Defense announced today that Sgt. Sean C. Reynolds, 25, of East Lansing, Mich., was killed on May 3, 2003, in Iraq. Reynolds was climbing a ladder when he fell causing his M4 rifle to accidentally discharge."
"The Department of Defense announced today that Sgt. 1st Class John E. Taylor, 31, of Wichita Falls, Texas, died 17 May, in Kabul, Afghanistan. Taylor suffered a heart attack after completing physical training. "
"The Department of Defense also announced today that Spc. Rasheed Sahib, 22, of Brooklyn, N.Y., was killed on May 18, in Balad, Iraq. Sahib and another soldier were cleaning their weapons when the other soldier's weapon discharged striking Sahib in the chest."
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40,000 US citizens die in auto crashes per year in the United States.
Thats not a war, it's a safe place to drive.
Get lost Weazfrid.
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Yes the media does report them repeatedly...
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Yep Fishu, pretty unlucky.
It was just a question Creamo. F**k off.
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We hear of the combat deaths, but the non-combat accidents like the M1 falling into the river are new to me.
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Originally posted by Dowding
We hear of the combat deaths, but the non-combat accidents like the M1 falling into the river are new to me.
I browsed through all the DoD announcements of casualties and seemed like 3/5th to 2/3rds were caused by incidents varying from car rolling over to explosives blowing up in the hands of soldiers.
Thought to sometime again browse through the casualty announcements to check how many were combat and non-combat casualties.
They sure have rolled over their cars alot.
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I read somewhare that after the first gulf war the army calculated it was safer to be in combat in Iraq/Kuwait and alcohol free Saudi Arabia than back at base in the States or Germany because of the alcohol related car accident rate was so high. Dont know if it's true or not, but it's just wierd enough it might be right...
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Wilfrid why even ask that question though? What gives you the impression that they wouldnt be reported?
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Wilfrid why even ask that question though? What gives you the impression that they wouldnt be reported?
Because the media tend to loose interest as time goes by?
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Grunherz: I live in germany, and all my news is internet based (don't have a TV, can't speak german that well anyway)
So I generally had the impression things had calmed down in Iraq. Seeing all the mentions of casualties on that site surprised me, and I wanted to know if these were being reported or if the story had faded into the background so much.
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Nothing surprising there.. they're sitting on the hot spot of muslims.
They can be happy for most muslims not giving a crap for Saddam, like they would with few other leaders.
Theres still action even in Afganistan.
Prolly most dangerous times in both countries are only after the actual war, since there hardly was a war to weight by the talibans or the saddams regime - however the loyalists will be still left and some are very loyal.
I guess theres also a fair bit of non-iraqi muslims having their jihad against americans.
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If there's American troops ANYWHERE in the Middle-East, some of them are going to be targeted. Muslim extremists don't exactly embrace Americans with open arms. Doesn't surprise me one bit that soldiers are still being killed over there. Combine that with the fact that there's still some loyalists to Hussein left, and I'm surprised so few American soldiers have been killed.
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One to two per day!?!?! MAN!! Screw you Gulf War panzies... Im from NEW YORK!!! ;)
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Originally posted by Creamo
40,000 US citizens die in auto crashes per year in the United States.
Thats not a war, it's a safe place to drive.
Get lost Weazfrid.
Learn to read u tard!
Just heard today thay uk chopper taken hits north of basra, seems things are far from over there.
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What am I supposed to read poopy?
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the media reports and re-reports it. they repeat it so often, you have to listen carefully to tell if it's a new incident or a rehash of a previous one..
as nov 2004 approaches, they'll scream it from the highest mountain
sad, very sad, fact of life - but anyone thought it'd be anything else in post iraq is dreaming
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you mean like our president eagler?
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Another thing to consider is that, even in total peacetime, there is a high accident/fatality rate for military training. Its just that its so normal and mundane that there is very little publicity and no one really notices.
Every week there is some plane crash, vehicle accident, or other training accident where someone is killed. But it never makes the headlines, and is usually stuck in section D page 4, with about a half a paragraph of written news.
As someone else mentioned, during the first Gulf War, the total deaths per trooper per time in the whole world (and that includes the combat casulties) was actually lower than during peacetime.
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Originally posted by Vermillion
Another thing to consider is that, even in total peacetime, there is a high accident/fatality rate for military training. Its just that its so normal and mundane that there is very little publicity and no one really notices.
Every week there is some plane crash, vehicle accident, or other training accident where someone is killed. But it never makes the headlines, and is usually stuck in section D page 4, with about a half a paragraph of written news.
As someone else mentioned, during the first Gulf War, the total deaths per trooper per time in the whole world (and that includes the combat casulties) was actually lower than during peacetime.
So, you just proved my thought that US military tries to hide the real casuality rates.
When I said i don't believe that during agression in Yugoslavia the accident rates were smaller then on ordinary trainings - people started to shout at me that it's only Soviet Army where there are ANY accidents during training...
Soldiers shooting themself while cleaning the rifles!? What the hell did they do when they were supposed to get some training and safety instructions!?
Sure, your media will make it all look like it's "usual training casualities". So what are they going to say about losses in Yugoslavia?...
Americans got their own Chechnya. Only it's 20 times bigger.
How many pipelines are blown up by partizans every week? American officials try to make it look like accdients too, forgetting that such things never happened until they occupied the country...
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comrade boroda has an attitude about the former USSR.
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Originally posted by Boroda
So, you just proved my thought that US military tries to hide the real casuality rates.
When I said i don't believe that during agression in Yugoslavia the accident rates were smaller then on ordinary trainings - people started to shout at me that it's only Soviet Army where there are ANY accidents during training...
Soldiers shooting themself while cleaning the rifles!? What the hell did they do when they were supposed to get some training and safety instructions!?
Sure, your media will make it all look like it's "usual training casualities". So what are they going to say about losses in Yugoslavia?...
Americans got their own Chechnya. Only it's 20 times bigger.
How many pipelines are blown up by partizans every week? American officials try to make it look like accdients too, forgetting that such things never happened until they occupied the country...
You're wound a little too tight my little comrade....mellow out.
You must be young....nevermind.
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Broda, American media is more critical of its own government and military than any foreign press. They dont hide, they expose.
Yes, someone shot himself in the face cleaning his rifle. You know what else? He actually hails from my area - went to my old high school.
Accidents happen, they are bound to when your chosen occupation involves the handling of deadly weapons - but dont accuse our media of covering anything up - successful coverups dont get ratings, my friend.
Sure, the local papers wrote it off as a "non combat related fatality" and didnt go into details, but thats more for the family and friends of the victim - its bad form to print "DUMB SOLDIER SHOOTS FACE OFF WHILE CLEANING WEAPON" on the front page.
And as for comparing Iraq/Afgahnistan to Chechnya... thats a stretch.
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I just heard that Idi Amin is living outside of Mecca in Saudi Arabia! :eek:
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He's right on the money Rude...Guess you don't have the "Stones" to admit that though.
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Yeah Boroda,
The Russians NEVER cover anything up...
The Russian government is the most avid supporter of free speech and free press in the world today.
American media, however, is censored and controlled by the government, and you'll be jailed here if you print a story that exposes a government cover-up. The American news media is so supportive of our government, that they're willing to lie on the Government's behalf also.
God, it's unbearable living here in this totalitarian democracy. I think I'll defect to Russia immediately where I can say and print whatever I want. :rolleyes:
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Heard 6 Brits were killed in an RPG attack today. The war is far from over.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Heard 6 Brits were killed in an RPG attack today. The war is far from over.
What, did you expect they'd be sauntering around Iraq drinking tea and eating crumpets on a picnic blanket?
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Originally posted by SirLoin
He's right on the money Rude...Guess you don't have the "Stones" to admit that though.
Yes of course he is, the USA is exactly like Russia who actually tried to hide thousands and thousands of casualties from their Checnya debacle... Plus of course we also blew up entire cities in the Iraq war just like Borodas inept army had to do in Checnya..
SirLoin I know you hate the USA dearly, but for your own sake at least dont be so idiotic to equate your own views with those of a brainwashed communist diehard like boroda...
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I think this is just Borodas alter ego, griefing with pro communist attitude and later in the evening laughing around vodka with his friends about the westerners going all nuts on his acting.
Simply cannot believe someone could be such a weirdo otherwise :>
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Originally posted by GrimCO
What, did you expect they'd be sauntering around Iraq drinking tea and eating crumpets on a picnic blanket?
Yikes dude! Are you in "Shoot the messenger" mode?
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Originally posted by GrimCO
What, did you expect they'd be sauntering around Iraq drinking tea and eating crumpets on a picnic blanket?
A liberating force might be able to expect as much.
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Sorry MT, didn't mean it to come across that way. My apologies.
It just baffles me that some people use this as fuel to try to lend support to their argument that the majority of Iraqis don't appreciate the toppling of the Hussein regime. It's the Middle East for Christ's sake. To think there aren't factions within Iraq that will continue to kill American and British troops is ridiculous. To think these factions represent the majority in Iraq is even more ridiculous.
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
A liberating force might be able to expect as much.
You can't be serious.
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Yes GrimCO. We all remember the well documented pictures of American and British troops being gunned down by annoyed French, Dutch, Belgian men.
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Dowding,
I know you're an intelligent sort. So this comparison of a Middle Eastern Country to France and Holland was a joke right?
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Of course. In the same vein as saying the Coalition was a liberating force is not far off a joke. To huge swathes of the population it's a barrier to their political and democratic will; the creation of an Islamic state. An infinitely more benign barrier than the Ba'athist party headed by Hussein - that goes without saying - but a barrier all the same.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
He's right on the money Rude...Guess you don't have the "Stones" to admit that though.
Admit what? That governments often slant the truth towards what serves them?
Look...don't pile me in with the blind ones....I just found it overkill to get so worked up about a truth which has been with us for generations.
If you have a hardon for the USA or its foreign policy, good for you....just don't kid yourself by thinking that we care what your opinion is south of the border.
As to my stones, they've gotten smaller the older I've become....at least I can still read with a degree of comprehension....I only thought he got worked up over nothing...he tends to be a little defensive in most of his posts.
Having said that, I told him how I felt long ago regarding his nation and his people....we agreed to disagree about the politics and I respect him as a person...I don't have to agree with his take on life.
I guess you just don't like me much....thought I met ya at the con, but can't recall.
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Ok Dowding, just checking... You had me worried there for a minute.
Taking the radical Muslims out of the equation, there are a quite a few people who stand to lose a lot (or have lost a lot already rather). Even if the Coalition were a "liberating force" in the truest sense of the word, the same thing would be happening over there as they were leaving. The mentality in the Middle East just isn't the same as the Western world. Bring religion back into the equation, and it starts getting worse in a hurry.
I'm just not surprised by it, that's all. After all, we're the "infidels".
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We have to get used to the continuing attrition in Iraq and Afganistan. We're gonna be there for years to come, and it is the cost of "doing business" over there. The casualty rate is miniscule as far as these kind of things go - and acceptable to the generals. It boils down to whether you think we should be there. I do.
Boroda, you can't be serious comparing Iraq or Afganistan to Chechnya???
I don't think we can expect the US military to necessarily trumpet every casualty. Why would they do that? It could be argued that it should be classified info anyway. The US Government is more open about that information than almost any other military around the world from what I can see...
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I'm not surprised either, GrimCO. But I saw the whole Iraq 'liberation' as being very half-heartedly received on the whole. I think that is ominous, but time will tell.
Gunthr - if US troops are still on Iraqi soil in any large numbers in a years time, I suspect Bush will be in deep water politically.
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Gunthr - if US troops are still on Iraqi soil in any large numbers in a years time, I suspect Bush will be in deep water politically.
- Dowding
I wonder about that, Dowding. A lot can happen in a year's time that could change the whole picture one way or the other.
I do agree we should get out as soon as we can, but we can't leave too soon. We can't leave a power vacuum there. It would leave the whole region in chaos.
Of course, this whole thing has been a huge political gamble for Bush and Blair. The whole thing was, and is, full of dangerous pitfalls. But I think they did the right thing - maybe not the right thing politically speaking - but the "right thing" morally and strategically in the war on terror. I'm not oblivious to the arguments against that war, I just believe strongly that we need to be over there.
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Looks like they've AGAIN yesterday rolled over a car and end up with a fatality.
plus another accident on the same day..
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Originally posted by Fishu
Looks like they've AGAIN yesterday rolled over a car and end up with a fatality.
plus another accident on the same day..
you keeping score?