Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Rude on June 24, 2003, 01:39:49 PM
-
Just perk the 51, La7, and Dora....let's shake it up a bit HT.
I wouldn't know what to think in an arena without a heavy population of the beformentioned planes...might be a good thing for all of us and would give some value to all the perkies which idly sit in folks accounts(non-interest bearing accounts I might add).:)
What do you guys think?
-
Perk those and we'll just see more n1ks and spits.
-
Perk those also:)
Late war kind of course.
-
Who cares about perks really..?...Give us some level bombing strat.
-
If you perked those planes then everyone would notice that the fields are too far apart and that the big maps are no fun.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Tarmac
Perk those and we'll just see more n1ks and spits.
At least N1K1 and Spit will fight(can't run). Plus N1K1 isn't that great after you avoid the HO attempt.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
If you perked those planes then everyone would notice that the fields are too far apart and that the big maps are no fun.
lazs
Well at least I would have something to spend my perks on. Just leave the ENY values where they are so we can regain the perks without shooting down 500 planes.
-
Cut and paste job from the Gameplay forum....
I really need some variety.
AH has got to be one of the few games where you can just log in and use ALMOST any weapon you want without earning it.
Is this what society has come to? A bunch of spolied brats screaming, "I want it and I want it now!".
Does'nt anyone enjoy a challenge anymore? Don't you want to EARN your ride?
I can to AH from a game called Ultima online. When you started there, (It was a Dungeons and Dragons type deal) you were given a dagger, a cloak, 100 gold, and sent off on the world. You would get your butt kicked by a rabbit. NO EXAGGERATION!
So you worked at it. You earned your heavy crossbow or your Londsword, or your Valorite Armor. Sure you got owned ALOT, but it made the rewards that much sweeter. And when you were going into a high risk situation, you took your less expensive weapons. WHy? Because you earned them, and they were too important to you to simply give away to some lucky shot.
Same thing can apply here. Perk ALL planes, except for the very bottom of the barrel. Let the Newbs (and me, I think I have 200 fighter perks in 2 years of flying) and the vets earn their rides.
There will still be plenty of planes to choose from.
And for those that argue that these 4 planes do no present that much of an advantage, why were they made? Because they were advancements over their Predecessors, and obviously were successful. If they were not, the planes fighting WWII in 1945 would have been the same ones fighting in 1939.
Like many, I'm just looking for diversity. I sighed in exhaustion the other night when I looked behind me and all I can see was a conga line of 5 LA-7's chasing my lone F6F.
I respect the man that kills me in the c202.
TOD last week..I got 4 kills ( A miracle ) in a C205 vs. P-40's and Spit Vs. I had a blast flying a new plane.
Would I fly it in the main? Not unless I just want to give away kills. I simply cannot compete in a 205, but would happily fly it if everyone had the same handicap, ie an arena not composed almost entirely of late war rides.
We need some diversity. We need a challenge. We need something to strive for in this game that will make earning that much more rewarding.
I want to be exhuberated when I finally get enough perks to fly an F6F and can walk away from my F4F.
I want to be pissed off at myself for losing that F6F to a stupid mistake.
I want to earn what I fly.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
If you perked those planes then everyone would notice that the fields are too far apart and that the big maps are no fun.
lazs
Agreed.
Ever try to take an FM2 to an enemy base on BigIsle? Better load up to 100% fuel and drop tanks, then turn on the tv and catch a full episode of "Wild On....".
Of course, if you perked the P-51, LA7, Spit IX, and N1K2, you'd see very few furballs. As soon as a horde upped on a base capture mission, nobody would contest them.
Except for guys like me who fly the P47D, P51B, and Yak9U.
-
Originally posted by gofaster
Agreed.
Ever try to take an FM2 to an enemy base on BigIsle? Better load up to 100% fuel and drop tanks, then turn on the tv and catch a full episode of "Wild On....".
Of course, if you perked the P-51, LA7, Spit IX, and N1K2, you'd see very few furballs. As soon as a horde upped on a base capture mission, nobody would contest them.
Except for guys like me who fly the P47D, P51B, and Yak9U.
Perk those too!
It would just be nice to have some new incentive while playing....personally, none of what I brought up really bothers me....I just talk to many who feel tired of the planeset regarding it's current usage.
Might be fun to mix it up a bit and try something new....for HT, this would be simple to implement.
If folks thought it sucked, then back to the old grind...no harm done as I see it. As it stands now, I never spend my perkies as I have no reason to do so.
Catch my drift?
-
if we perk all what will we do next ?
a 'virtual' paper plane competition in the MA :p ?
-
See this post in the GamePlay forum:
Perk the "Big Four" (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88550)
Terror
-
looking at the expanded kill stats i dont see the reason people want the Dora perked.
yeah it's fast .. but thats it. the lame7 and pony can out turn it. the spit IX can catch it in a dive. the typh will run it down on the deck. the lame7 will run it down every where below 15k.
whats so "uber" about the dora?
-
This is weird , I asked for this myself for the same reasons. To basically change the MA a little just for a change to tide us over until AH2 arrives.
I said we should use this time to fiddle with the perk system to see if we can produce a variety of engagements. Perks could change the type of typical fight we encounter so easily but its never been truelly used properly I dont think.Apart from for the F4uc but even that i think could be adjusted now and allow a few more to be used.
If just for a tour or two we reduced tempests and spit14s to 5 or 10 perks and added a small price to the really overused planes like La7s and niks etc we could for that tour enjoy a whole new range of fights.It would at least keep us amused until AH2.
-
I've always been a huge proponent of the rolling planeset concept, though I suspect that HiTech and Pyro never were fond of it, even when they were at WB. IMHO, it mades the types of engagements you find yourself in different literally from day-to-day. With this being said, I have to agree with MuckMaw. By perking most of the post-1942 planeset incrementally based upon time of introduction, the "LaLa conga-line" issue would become virtually non-existent. It would also increase the perk system's value to the game. Since I have no way of measuring this, I have to assume that most people are like me and have several thousand perk points sitting around doing very little. Having to take my perks into consideration before jumping into a perk plane simply does not happen, so why bother?
Maybe HTC could engineer a way to "sell" your perks to the needy. Maybe $1.00 US per 100 perkies would be good. You sell your points to someone, and HTC gives you a credit to your account, while debiting their account. That might make the perk system more meaningful too, I suppose.
-
Originally posted by Rude
Just perk the 51, La7, and Dora....let's shake it up a bit HT.
YES! agree totally, just add the 109-G10 to that list and its perfect. Why is spit 14 perked when these a/c aren't?
This is a list of RAF aircraft currently in AH, notice no unperked aircraft after the 1943 mossie.. that simply sucks when there are unperked 1944 and 45 rides owning the MA.
British:
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Hurricane Mk I ... 12-37
Hurricane IIC ... 4-41
Hurricane IID ... 6-42
Lancaster III ... 3-42
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43
Seafire IIC ... 10-42
Spitfire Mk IA ... 6-38
Spitfire V ... 4-41
Spitfire Mk IX ... 7-42
Spitfire Mk XIV ... 3-44
Tempest V ... 5-44
Typhoon ... 6-42
-
PERK PERK PERK PERK PERK PERK PERK PERK PERK!
-
While I am all for shaking things up a bit (I'd really like to see a tour witht he Spit14 and F4U-4 deperked) I can see why it might not happen. Look at all the bit...err, whining that occured after the map rotation change.
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
Does'nt anyone enjoy a challenge anymore? Don't you want to EARN your ride?
Good God, NO. I appreciate the fact that Aces High reflects a meritocracy and not a geritocracy like in MMORPGs. Here, you earn the kill, not the ride.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
Orignally posted by Dead Man Flying
Good God, NO. I appreciate the fact that Aces High reflects a meritocracy and not a geritocracy like in MMORPGs. Here, you earn the kill, not the ride.
I don't understand how you don't see that the current AH perk model is a gerontocracy in some respects. After all, the players that have been playing for a while generally have quite a few perks, and can pretty much fly whatever they want at will. New players don't, and have to work for quite a while to get enough perks generated to fly a Me-262 or whatever. To make matters worse, I have often seen new pilots finally earn the perks to fly a perk plane, only to have it destroyed through their lack of experience.
I also tend to disagree on your point about earning the kill in AH over earning the ride. There have been many times when I have engaged someone 1-on-1 and worked on gaining the advantage for over a while in my F4U-1D while scoring hits to end up having someone blow on through in a more heavily-armed kite and get the kill. Now, while I worked the enemy con into a state of low energy some could argue that I earned the kill, however AH rewards the person who actually inflicted the most damage. I'm not griping about this, since I'm just happy that the enemy con went down in flames and not me :D
The truth of the matter is that AH rewards the person in perks for killing an enemy con, regardless of how good or bad the fight was.
I think that perking a broad range of the aircraft in AH would increase the variety of the fights within AH. As a matter of fact, I think that this sort of system would actually undermine any sort of gerontocracy that exists in AH. Since more planes are perked, the more senior pilots would probably use their perk points more often. They would probably get to a point of being low on perks more frequently, and be forced to fly early war aircraft to get back into their preferred ride, just like the new pilots.
-
Originally posted by troxel
I don't understand how you don't see that the current AH perk model is a gerontocracy in some respects. After all, the players that have been playing for a while generally have quite a few perks, and can pretty much fly whatever they want at will. New players don't, and have to work for quite a while to get enough perks generated to fly a Me-262 or whatever. To make matters worse, I have often seen new pilots finally earn the perks to fly a perk plane, only to have it destroyed through their lack of experience.
[/b]
The perk system does depend greatly on the amount of time spent in the game, and I'm not a particular fan of it. However, in the very least it removes only unbalancing planes from contention rather than just about every plane in the game, as muckmaw recommends. I fail to see any benefit from putting new players into deathtraps such as a Spit I merely by virtue of their time spent playing.
The truth of the matter is that AH rewards the person in perks for killing an enemy con, regardless of how good or bad the fight was.
[/B]
This was a general statement. Think about the people in this game who have earned the respect of other players. Some have played for years, and others have played for months. But skill is skill, and others recognize it for what it is. There's no character building here, no dungeon quests, no experience points. Points and score aside, the true measure of success now and always has been the community. The community knows if you're not earning the kills.
Since more planes are perked, the more senior pilots would probably use their perk points more often. They would probably get to a point of being low on perks more frequently, and be forced to fly early war aircraft to get back into their preferred ride, just like the new pilots.
Early war planes are deathtraps against late war stuff. All you're doing is exacerbating the cleavage between senior pilots and new players. A P-51 really has very little to fear from Spit Is, Hurri Is, 109Es, etc. You have diversified the fight and removed the challenge. God forbid a 262 shows up to the fight. I'd rather face Spits, N1Ks, La7s, and P-51s all day than face hordes of Spit Is, Hurri Is, and other early war stuff most of the time.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
A P-51 really has very little to fear from Spit Is, Hurri Is, 109Es, etc.
Not totally true. In a pony you have to gaurd your energy. Yes it's a fast plane, but lose too much e, and with the pony's slow exceleration you're dead meat to any of those planes you've listed.
That combination AA/Fueler-go-cart on rails with wings (La 7) otoh, just fire wall it, flip the wep switch, and you're home free. That plane needs some perk cost added to it.
-
I say we do perk everything, but in reverse order...
C47’s will now be 200 with the 262 on the other end at 1.
Throw the rest in there somewhere. Let’s eliminate base capture and all the early war rides!
Life didn’t begin until 1944 anyway.
-
The Typhoon in AH is a 44 model.. :)
-
I hate the idea of ultima onlinre and playing a tgame where people who have no lives have an advantage in equipment.
having said that... late war fast planes don't belong in the same airspace as early and slow ones.
We need an area arena... a section of the map with a seperate reset that only early war planes can take off from and that is allmost impossible to get to from the late war fields.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
The perk costs as I envision life here would be minimal....I wouldn't want to make life tougher on newbies than it already is.
It would only be an experiment of sorts....nothing to marry.
It could freshen what we currently see and fight against in the MA...I'de gladly fly an early war ride if I knew some others were doing the same. As it stands now, only the latest greatest fighters take up the majority of airspace.
I guess the question that remains for me is this....we have a planeset that doesn't get used....what's the point in offering other early war rides other than to service special events?
I'm really an RPS guy, but Dale has made it clear that this won't happen here.
What's wrong with trying something new....I'de be the first to admit it was a mistake if it didn't work out. I mean, c'mon...it's not like it's all been tried and we really have hard data to support that this type of change would definetly not work...the perk system is like the last frontier...unexplored and begging for attention....why just let it sit there as it currently does, claiming perfection?
-
well... the stigma of the perk plane icon would be a help... Guys who fly uber planes don't like to have to admit it.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
Hey Lazs....sqd nite for the 13th tonight....we be lookin for the BK's....nice to have the address for a good fight....cyas up:)
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The Typhoon in AH is a 44 model.. :)
The Air Ministry specs for an heavy fighter were calling for cannon armament; the Typhoon Mk IB was the answer, with four wing-mounted 20 mm cannons. The Mk IB had already flown for the first time on May 3rd, 1941, so it was delivered shortly after the Mk IA.
By Summer 1942, the No 56, 266 and 609 Squadrons were flying a mix of Typhoons Mk IA and IB
The first 163 Typhoons had an opaque rear canopy, but most were retro-fitted with the production-standard framed transparent canopy. The bubble canopy was only delivered from Winter 1943, and became a standard feature on the Tempest.
1943 with the bubble canopy, even so the only differences between early and late war typhs were 4 bladed props, canopy and strengthened tails i think (early models had the nasty habit of their tails falling off)
-
I've always been a huge proponent of the rolling planeset concept, though I suspect that HiTech and Pyro never were fond of it, even when they were at WB.
They are the ones that came up with it. :) I remember when it was first implimented in Warbirds, it created quite the howl. I personnally think it's a great concept but most would complain about not always being able to fly their La-7s, Mustangs and G-10s.
Sharky
edited for spelling and grammer
-
rps is a horrible idea. It is even worse if it becomes allied vs axis. or.... "no fair fights ever".
Someone will do an area arena thing someday... far as i can tell it is the only way to let everyone fly whatever they want all the time and still maintain parity and have the whole community all in one arena.
lazs
-
What is a rolling plane set?
Is that what they have in the CT?
If it is, I don't care for it at all. The last time I logged in CT, it was some Israeli thing, where everyone could up a 262.
Did'nt like it...did'nt go back.
The time before that had the F4F vs. the NIki...liked it, was overmatched...did'nt go back.
RPS could be the death of this game. There is a big difference in the "Carrot and Stick" method of perking and a completely restrictive RPS where your aicraft choice is dictated by some unknown person, and not by your skills and experience.
-
"Omigosh! I won't be able to fly my faerie planes! I'm quitting!"
Is all I hear from you guys once anyone mentions perks. Ever.
Lazs wants an arena where he can fly whatever he wants into whatever furballs he wants.. He cares not about the rest of the community, HTC's ideas, what HTC's already done, in fact, Lazs hates the game at large, besides the rare time the airfields are 5 feet apart and he has invincibility..
He agrees to nothing, complains about everything, and tries to make the game 'Quakers Low'
His posts shouldnt hold any relavance ;)
Thus begins my War On Stupidity.
-
Should'nt your "War on Stupidity" link actually work...or is that a test to see how many times I'll push it, and get my stupidity quotient?
I think I just lost the war....
-
Originally posted by Rude
As it stands now, I never spend my perkies as I have no reason to do so.
Catch my drift?
Perk the BBS then you'll have something to spend your perks on.
Hell it may even put you in the Negative. :D
Perk Whines as well, i'll gladly give up 50 perks a whine. ;)
JustJim1
<>
-
gee rut... how is the "area arena" selfish? seems that I am advocating that anyone fly anthing they want in one arena but that they simply have to fly it with a little parity...
to say that I am being selfish seems kinda..... well..
stupid.
lazs
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
What is a rolling plane set?
Is that what they have in the CT?
A rolling planeset, as it was implemented in WB, consisted of an approximate two week period where on day 1, it was summer 1940, day 2 was fall 1940, day 3 was winter 1940, day 4 was spring 1941, etc.. By the last day of the RPS, it was the fall of 1945. Each country could fly any nation's aircraft at any time.
This system mandated that you had to learn to fly planes other than your preferred plane (bombers and fighters), and I always thought it was healthy since the dynamic of the game changed so much from day to day in a way that was loosely reflective of the war.
I wasn't necessarily suggesting that we implement this system in AH. It was suggested very early on and HiTech made it pretty clear how he didn't want to have anything to do with it. I was just simply thinking about the spirit of what Rude had to say. After all, why not make the perk system more meaningful?
If you had a majority of the planeset perked by varying degrees based upon wartime introduction, you would have a good balance between an RPS system and the virtually unrestricted free for all that we have in the MA today.
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Think about the people in this game who have earned the respect of other players. Some have played for years, and others have played for months. But skill is skill, and others recognize it for what it is. There's no character building here, no dungeon quests, no experience points. Points and score aside, the true measure of success now and always has been the community. The community knows if you're not earning the kills.
I agree in principal with what you said here Lev, but the community's appraisal of your skill does not dictate the amount of perk points you are rewarded with, the game does. Respect, good will, and a good sense of humor are metrics not measured by the game and as such the only thing that guides people away from flying the late war planeset is probably a sheer lack of challenge. And if that is the case, then why should we even have a perk system at all?
It just seems a shame to me that so many planes were introduced by HTC after spending a considerable amount of time getting the flight models, textures, and other elements just right, only to have them never crawl their way out of a hanger unless someone was gracious enough to create a campaign in the CT that used them (i.e. B5N2, C.202, P40B, et. al.).