Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripper29 on June 25, 2003, 08:01:49 AM

Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Ripper29 on June 25, 2003, 08:01:49 AM
LAKEWOOD, Colorado -- A man was charged with murder for allegedly killing his nephew while demonstrating a bulletproof vest they believed could also stop knives.

Amando Aranda, 32, was jailed without bail in the death of Gabriel Aranda, The two men shared a pint of whisky, drank beer and smoked marijuana before staging the demonstration Friday for a teenager, authorities said.

Aranda took a long kitchen knife and stabbed his nephew in the chest, penetrating his heart, police said.

"The suspect and victim were trying to demonstrate their belief that this type of protective vest could withstand a knife attack," police spokesman Steve Davis said.

"Obviously, that was incorrect."   :rolleyes:
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Saurdaukar on June 25, 2003, 09:02:22 AM
I find myself wondering how the thought of this demostration came about.
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: john9001 on June 25, 2003, 09:24:04 AM
hey, hold my beer , watch this.
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: GrimCO on June 25, 2003, 09:28:39 AM
Must have been a Ginsu...
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: LePaul on June 25, 2003, 09:44:22 AM
...and look, still sharp enough to filet this tomato skin!
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Animal on June 25, 2003, 01:15:08 PM
Booze was definetly involved in this charade
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: SOB on June 25, 2003, 01:34:49 PM
I think it was a once in a million chance that the knife would penetrate that vest.  They should repeat the test, only this time with the other guy wearing the vest.


SOB
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Drunky on June 25, 2003, 01:36:35 PM
I read once about a college student who tried to play Russian Roullete with an automatic pistol
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Seeker on June 25, 2003, 01:41:26 PM
Beleive it or not it's easier to make a light wieght bullet proof vest than it is to make a light wieght knife proof vest; the key words being light weight.

They're very different weapons requiring different solutions.
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: john9001 on June 25, 2003, 01:45:53 PM
a needle will go through a "bullet proof vest", how do you think they sew the things together?
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Nifty on June 25, 2003, 01:47:51 PM
did they think they had Bilbo and Frodo's mithril vest  or something?  sheesh.
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: GrimCO on June 25, 2003, 03:31:07 PM
Simple solution is to wear a trauma plate. That's what they make the insert for on the front of the vest. I wore one. Knife won't go through it  :-)
Title: Drunky
Post by: GtoRA2 on June 25, 2003, 06:16:28 PM
thats called French roullete
Title: Re: Drunky
Post by: straffo on June 26, 2003, 02:13:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
thats called French roullete


negatif it's belgian roulette don't confuse us with our neighbour.
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Tarmac on June 26, 2003, 02:30:30 AM
Bulletproof and and stab-resistant vests are different.  Many police in the UK wear only stab-resistant vests (IIRC), while US cops usually wear bulletproofs.  I think that there may be some all-purpose vests in development that I heard about on the discovery channel or somewhere similar.  

I remember reading somewhere that the pressure exerted by a knife tip (moderate force exerted over a very small area) is much higher than the pressure exerted by a relatively flat-faced pistol round (lots of energy dissipated over a relatively large area).  This combines with a bullet's tendency to deform (diffusing energy), and a knife's tendency to remain rigid.  Thus the ability of a knife to go through the bulletproof vest.
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Fishu on June 26, 2003, 02:40:25 AM
IIRC bullet proof vests function is not to just deform the bullet, but also to spread the force of impact over wider area, which in turn means you'll feel like punched after hit by a bullet and might get a big bruise, and bullet would need even more energy to penetrate the vest and the person himself.

Kevlar vest can stop a knife too, by deflecting or breaking it, whereas soft tissue wouldn't have done either of the two.
But a straight thrust might have a different effect, however it will require more power to punch through the vest when the energy is spread over a bigger area, so sloppy thrusts can be even stopped.

I've read about cases where the knife has been deflected or broken against typical bulletproof vests that cops wear.
Broken ones have been usually the ones used to cut bread....

With some basic logic, what makes difference between a knife and a bullet against the kevlar vest, is that the other is quite a light projectile which does not have a constant energy and the other will have a thrusting energy all the time along the path.

Those common bulletproof vests are only for small calibers anyway.. so the knife will have much more energy if thrusted right.
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Wlfgng on June 26, 2003, 10:12:14 AM
it depends.  

materials, design, etc..
our town's cop vests definatley DO stop knives.

I've seen a lot that would not because they aren't that tightly woven but instead use the 'threads' in the fiber to spread out the impact.. but a knife would seperate and penetrate


I think if it were me, I'd prefer the first type like our cops have.. who cares if it's a little heavier
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: midnight Target on June 26, 2003, 10:28:46 AM
"Only the slow steady blade can defeat the shielded opponent"

(Geekdom 101)
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Wlfgng on June 26, 2003, 10:34:43 AM
lmao.. good timing.. almost made me spew
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: StSanta on June 27, 2003, 05:38:48 AM
Charged with murder?

Admittedly this was a very stupid act done under the influence of drugs, but murder?

it comes in two variants in the US, right? Premeditated and non premeditated? What exactly does the non premeditated encompass?

I guess here he'd realistically be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Oh btw, bulletproof vests are probably a good idea in a country like the US, where most firearms are 9mm or .45 or generally revolver/pistol calibre. I saw a demonstration in Sweden in whcih the bullet proof vest used by police was hit by a hunting rifle. It went through front and back of two vests - had there been a third it mighta done damage to that one too. I guess kevlar isn't enough there - you probably need a quarter of a centimetre of steel to stop it properly.

Maybe the one accused of murder can try it out.
Title: Darwin Recipient
Post by: Drunky on June 27, 2003, 11:17:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta
What exactly does the non premeditated encompass?



Non-premeditated could be fits of rage or passion.  Getting into an argument and then pulling a gun.  Finding your wife in bed with another man and stabbing one or both of them.

Premeditate means that they planned in advance.  Going to buy, knife, poison, explosives,etc  the gun to kill the person.
Title: Mau'dib
Post by: Syzygyone on June 27, 2003, 11:26:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
"Only the slow steady blade can defeat the shielded opponent"

(Geekdom 101)


Sounds like a quote from "DUNE" to me!