Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on June 25, 2003, 05:44:35 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/25/sprj.irq.centrifuge/index.html
Of course this does not count because Saddam would never go back on his word and try to build nukes....
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Oddly enough, I just logged on to post the same thing.
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We can't say nanner nanner yet but this is promising and more than a bit disconcerting considering how big Iraq is and how easy it must have been to hide parts or even parts of parts of weapons programs. Going to be interesting!
And you gotta give it to them CIA spooks. Who ever would have thought to put in in a barrel under a rose "BUSH". Man, oh man, the coincidence ain't lost on me. Is it lost on you?
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We were all led to believe that Iraq had 10's of thousands of tons of chemical,biological weapons to be used at a moments notice.
The fact that they haven't found as much as a trace even in a couple rusty old trailers is very amusing. And must certinly severely damage the credibilty of Bush and Blair.
Of course the fact that N.Korea does have nukes in devlopment is in the "too hard tray" at the moment.
...-Gixer
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Iraq had nukes in developement too, we stopped them from becoming another NK . Which you just wisely pointed out as a very good thing .
In fact in 1991 Iraq had a nuke, but it was to large to fit in a warhead of one of their many ballistic missles . I know, I know, this is old news .
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That was not a WMD. It could be used to build a plant which could be used to make enriched Uranium which could be used to make a nuclear bomb. Only then would it be a WMD. Some bits of metal buried for 12 years in some scientist's back garden hardly constitutes readiness.
We were told that Iraq had WMD's ready at 40 minutes notice. So far not one single solitary bomb, shell or even a barrel of something smelly has been found. So much for readiness. At this stage we have to accept that either nothing will be found or what little is found won't be the threat it was made out to be. The war's real aim was to get rid of Saddam. Which is a good thing.
That is the line I now take with my now smug anti war, anti Bush friends with whom I had many an argument before the war. Yes that's right despite being painted as neo liberal commie pinko socialist Godless hippy by one or two people. I thought Bush and Blair were right and after some thought believed the war was the only option. That will teach me to believe a politician! But at least now they agree getting rid of Saddam was a good idea.
So lesson learned, I notice lately that George W is saying that genetically modified food is perfectly safe. Hmmmmm, that's me off to the organic wholefood store:(
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Ahhh of course Sadddm was forbidden to have WMD but its just perfectly fine that he have nuclear weapons production equipment hidden away in ****ing rose gardens till after the idiot Hans Blix declares Saddam clean and coopeperative...
Face it prettythangholes we just prevented Saddam from staying in power and eventually resuming his banned nuclear program...
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what's this?... the weekly grasping at straws WMD find post. ... ok, heading over to read that link. I'm sure it's a real shocker. this is it this time right? the one? I'm bracing myself.... heh.
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Just parts used to make, oh, nuclear bombs....
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nuclear bombs are in no way threat to USA, it's just ridicules.
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sounds like we are makeing a mountain out of a mole hill. centerfuge parts can be bought online. if we are going to invade a country over crap like this we might as well start going after costa rica, i heard their physics department at the national university is actually teaching people nuclear physics!.
its one thing to have equipment its another to possess uranium and the thousands upon thousands of chemical weopons that we were told he had. Face it we were lied to and you guys dont give a damn because you had other reasons to support the war against iraq, which is respectible. but dont go around and pretend this is sufficient reason to invade and occupy a country for the next 10 years.
personally im glad the guy never had anything that he didnt already said he had. because if he really did it would have been used against our troops or us during the war.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
sounds like we are makeing a mountain out of a mole hill. centerfuge parts can be bought online. if we are going to invade a country over crap like this we might as well start going after costa rica, i heard their physics department at the national university is actually teaching people nuclear physics!.
yeah, they're so easy to get...that's why Saddam had a special guy in charge of hiding them under a rose bush until such time that they could retreive them once "inspections" ended.
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This find actually hurts the case of Iraq as a threat, as portrayed by Bush & Co.
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LOL Nash!
So him secretly preparing to restart his nucler bomb program after weathering the inspections somehow proves he was less of a threat? Your logic is simply incredible here, I guess if actual WMD stockpiles are found then that will be the final proof to you that Bush was lying about Iraq being a threat..
BTW frogman administration officials have freely admitted that there were several reasons for the Iraq war, the one they agreed to the most was WMD violations. Violations that were documented by the UN and in breach of the cese fire and UN resolutions. So the legal basis of the war being WMD is pretty solid.
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You haven't even heard my logic. And no, actual WMD stockpiles found would mean that Bush was telling the truth. Lack of WMD stockpiles would of course mean that he wasn't.
What is your standard for final proof btw, Grun?
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Your logic seems to be that this find of Iraqi deliberately hidden illegal nuclear wepons production material is somehow bad news for the US case of Iraq violating its cease fire and UN commitments.
Naturally by this reasoning this means that actual WMD stockpiles if found would put the nail in the coffin to the US case of Iraq being a threat.
Because of course your logic seems to be that evidence of violations somehow disproves the US position that Iraq has vilated its agreements...
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Grunherz,
I understand what your saying but why isn't the Bush admin rushing off to bomb and invade North Iraq given they not only have nuclear weapons but the means to deliver them.
And must surely be the Number 1 threat to US security at the moment not Iraq prior to invasion.
...-Gixer
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That you ask why tells me you have never been to korea . That is a war that would be very costly and difficult for us to win without deploying nuclear weapons . They have a very strong, well fortified conventional army .
To give you an idea, the large and modern 2nd infantry division that is the main US ground forces component tasked with defending SK is often half jokingly referred to as "speed bump" by US Army soldiers .
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Suave,
That's exactly my point. Iraq was an easy target. North Korea isn't.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Your logic seems to be that this find of Iraqi deliberately hidden illegal nuclear wepons production material is somehow bad news for the US case of Iraq violating its cease fire and UN commitments.
Naturally by this reasoning this means that actual WMD stockpiles if found would put the nail in the coffin to the US case of Iraq being a threat.
Not just a threat... an imminent threat capable of deployment in as little as 45 minutes.
There is no evidence to date to support this claim and I doubt very seriously that they'll ever substantiate it.
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Originally posted by Gixer
Suave,
That's exactly my point. Iraq was an easy target. North Korea isn't.
...-Gixer
Right, we prevented another potential North Korea . Some people, believe it or not, think that we shouldn't have .
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Ok Grun...
This centrifuge....
This is not weapons of mass destruction. It is not even a weapon of mass destruction. It certainly the shreck is not 25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin, nor 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. Capice?
So what exactly do we have here?
A "key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology" says CNN. It's a significant find for a few reasons, perhaps the most important being that it's finally our first glimpse into the state of Iraq's nuclear weapons program. From Powell's presentations at the United Nations to Condalisa's Sunday morning talk show circuits describing mushroom clouds over downtown Chicago, we were painted a picture of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program in full swing; Iraqi scientists feverishly toiling away, the urgency such that completion of the first weapon was as near as three months away.
Today we got our first look at this stuff... and yeah, it's a helluhvah find alright.
Because right away we discover that what we were led to believe... this threat.... turns out to be complete, total bs. Garbage. It's freaking unbelievable! What happened here?
Stay with me for a sec...
This peice of gas centrifuge has been sitting in dirt since Iraq negotiated its surrender 12 years ago, and dates back to Iraq's pre-1991 efforts to build nuclear weapons. Why is that significant? Because it hasn't been touched since! Mahdi Obeidi, the Iraqi scientist who was ordered to hide the thing, was the key to the restarting of this centrifuge program and he never got the order to restart it! If there were any nuclear weapons program in any shape or form whatsoever, this guy would be on it... yet he's been out of a job since 1991!
Iraq kicked the weapons inspectors out for years. That's presumably why everyone went back en masse, right? For 2-3 years Iraq was accountable to nobody. Nobody was able to watch them. Yet... that thing was left in the dirt.
Uhm.... hello? Uh.... WTF man?!
What we found today was that THERE WAS NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM! Hows about THEM apples?
So why the hell aren't people getting this? It's so shrecking... DUH. It's like invasion of the freakin' body snatchers or something.
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plausable deniability.
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ouch you're gonna haveta elaborate... my brain is fried...
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Oooh.
Careful, Nash.
Fried brains could be considered a potential threat, as they "may" develop into something that "might" trigger you into becoming a ruthless dictator, thus, becoming a threat to the "national security".
Sooner or later, the CNN's gonna start digging up yer garden.
So hush hush, friend!
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Sooo Nash you think Saddam ordered this stuff buried after the 1991 cease fire and WMD restrictions just for the hell of it?
You actually dont think that he would restrt his nuclear program the second inspectors declared him claean and were gone from Iraq? Thats why the only choice was to take him out.
Gixer youre right NK is a problem, but franky NK is not Iraq the situation is different and we must handle it differently at this stage. I have no doubt if NK pushed too far in some way that we would then just grit down and deal with them harshly, war, but this is not the time for that action. Remember all the interseting anti war criticizm of the USA's "rush" to war after only 12 years of giving Saddam cahnce after to chance to behave nicely - so I take any suggestion that we should automatically invade NK to be dubious self serving hypocriy when it comes from the same people. We are trying it very hard the diplomatic way for now in NK, just like the anti war types wanted - yet they still complain... Oh well. :)
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I envy your certainty in a very uncertain world.
Or.... should it be pity?
Hmmmmmmm...........?
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Originally posted by Nash
Ok Grun...
This centrifuge....
This is not weapons of mass destruction. It is not even a weapon of mass destruction. It certainly the shreck is not 25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin, nor 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. Capice?
So what exactly do we have here?
A "key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology" says CNN. It's a significant find for a few reasons, perhaps the most important being that it's finally our first glimpse into the state of Iraq's nuclear weapons program. From Powell's presentations at the United Nations to Condalisa's Sunday morning talk show circuits describing mushroom clouds over downtown Chicago, we were painted a picture of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program in full swing; Iraqi scientists feverishly toiling away, the urgency such that completion of the first weapon was as near as three months away.
Today we got our first look at this stuff... and yeah, it's a helluhvah find alright.
Because right away we discover that what we were led to believe... this threat.... turns out to be complete, total bs. Garbage. It's freaking unbelievable! What happened here?
Stay with me for a sec...
This peice of gas centrifuge has been sitting in dirt since Iraq negotiated its surrender 12 years ago, and dates back to Iraq's pre-1991 efforts to build nuclear weapons. Why is that significant? Because it hasn't been touched since! Mahdi Obeidi, the Iraqi scientist who was ordered to hide the thing, was the key to the restarting of this centrifuge program and he never got the order to restart it! If there were any nuclear weapons program in any shape or form whatsoever, this guy would be on it... yet he's been out of a job since 1991!
Iraq kicked the weapons inspectors out for years. That's presumably why everyone went back en masse, right? For 2-3 years Iraq was accountable to nobody. Nobody was able to watch them. Yet... that thing was left in the dirt.
Uhm.... hello? Uh.... WTF man?!
What we found today was that THERE WAS NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM! Hows about THEM apples?
So why the hell aren't people getting this? It's so shrecking... DUH. It's like invasion of the freakin' body snatchers or something.
People like Nash restore my faith in common sense.
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Couldn't agree more.
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Common sense seems in short supply lately
Tronsky
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(http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2003/db030626.gif)
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you guys are mistaken ...
that was just a 55 gallon drum of mechanical rose fertilizer :)
which leads to the question - what else is buried/hidden & where??
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what reeeally peeves the handsomehunkcrats off are the polls showing that almost 70% DO NOT CARE if WMD's are EVER found - the war was justified without them
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If the CIA planted that evidence they're several magnitudes dumber than I thought. :)
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Nash pretty much covered it.
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What we found today was that THERE WAS NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM! Hows about THEM apples?
So why the hell aren't people getting this? It's so shrecking... DUH. It's like invasion of the freakin' body snatchers or something.
Im getting it very clearly....Iraq's top officials ordered key components buried ( hidden) until such time they could be put to use ( after Iraq cleared by Moron, I mean Blitz).
Why dont people get that? Why hide the stuff ( stuff that was banned) rather than report it to inspectors as required?
The very fact that they found this hidden instead of having been reported to the UN as required tells me that Iraq had no intention of complying with anything, they just wanted to hide everything they werent supposed to have in order to get UN sanctions lifted, then they could re-start everything quickly.
The mere fact is that the inspectors would NEVER have found this.
And if you think it's no big deal that they had this hidden, maybe you have to ask why it was so important to Iraq to hide it.
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So Iraq was >< that close to having a bomb! All they were waiting for were those pesky sanctions to be lifted, then to dig up a 12 year old cetrifuge.. then viola! 45 minutes later.... :rolleyes:
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The truth will be truth...regardless of what any of us think about it.
What amuses me is how badly some of you want GW and Co. to be wrong....ignore anything positive for the US or the Iraqi people.
If Bush lied, then I'll be the first to join you in calling for his impeachment. My question to those of you who seem to believe that the entire basis for his actions in Iraq are simply a fairie tale is this....
How are you so sure that during the months dancing in the UN, Sadaam and Co. didn't see the writing on the wall and relocate what WMD's he had to another country, or bury them somewhere in his country?
I mean, I can see that it's possible that our government lied to us...it wouldn't be the first time in American history. I just have chosen to support and give the benefit of the doubt to our President, until he proves it is misplaced.
Explain to me how some of you scholars can be so certain that Bush has lied and that Sadaam is innocent and pocessess no WMD. What proof do you have? Do you hang your hat on the fact that currently, none have been found to date?
Did the UN unanimously agree that he did have stockpiles remaining back in 98 when inspections terminated? Do you believe that on his own, with no coercion, he simply destroyed what the UN's final accounting of his WMD inventory was....he just chose to give up those weapons and rule conventionally?
I could be wrong about Bush....are you so filled with hatred of the man that you wouldn't admit the same?
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I don't think Bush etal lied. I think they either saw what they wanted to see in the intelligence, or they chose to ignore the "yes but's" the intelligence community were telling them.
Exaggeration is probably the worst thing they did.
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I only read the first few posts and it seems to me that the argument being made is in the wrong place. Instead, to me, the article shows just how difficult it will be to find anything in Iraq. This stuff was buried in some guy's backyard under some roses. Chem/Bio weapons can fit in shaving-cream cans and be buried anywhere, some of which may have been buried going way back to the early 1990s leaving little trace/evidence. Remember, Saddam couldn't account for a lot of the bio/chem stuff that even the UN knew he had because Saddam documented it in a list after his defeat in the first Gulf War. He couldn't provide proof it was destroyed and we couldn't provide proof of where it was.
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I think I'll go on Ebay and get me a 12 year old centrifuge....
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_50_1053113348.jpg)
TO POOP ON !!!
:D
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"Sooo Nash you think Saddam ordered this stuff buried after the 1991 cease fire and WMD restrictions just for the hell of it?" - Grunherz
Ok well if you READ the article Grun you'd know that Hussein didn't order the scientist to burry the part. Hussein's SON did. For all we know Hussein had no IDEA that this part was still around.
Imagine this:
Husein to son: Well that's it. We gotta kill the nuke program.
Son to Hussein: Are you serious? But DAD!
Husein to son: I'm sorry Qusay but's that's it. The program is over. Burry it.
;)
In any event, it was the son-in-law Qusay that ordered the parts burried, not Hussein. That takes care of your question Grun. And yours Nuke.
It's all fine and well to say "This part was burried so the program could be restarted after a hibernation period", but there was a long period when there were no inspectors and the nuke program wasn't taken out of hibernation. There goes that theory. And that still doesn't square with the fact that the Bush admin was going ahead and misleadingly telling the entire world that the nuke program already was out of hibernation when we know now that it had NO evidence at all to support that claim.
Lets see.... Okay Rude as usual you didn't say anything except "you hate Bush, you HATE him" .
I found an incredible article a few days ago... it's everything... give this a look:
The Selling of the Iraq War: The First Casualty (http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030630&s=ackermanjudis063003)
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Imagine this:
Husein to son: Well that's it. We gotta kill the nuke program.
Son to Hussein: Are you serious? But DAD!
Husein to son: I'm sorry Qusay but's that's it. The program is over. Burry it.
In any event, it was the son-in-law Qusay that ordered the parts burried, not Hussein. That takes care of your question Grun. And yours Nuke.
LOL, you mean hide it, not destroy it, not bury it , per se but HIDE it.
And how does that answer my question? I said top government officials order the parts hidden. Why not just give it to UN inspectors and look like the good guys they are? Why hide it? I see no valid point in hiding it other than so it wouldnt be found and so it could be preserved.
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"Exaggeration is probably the worst thing they did." - MT
Misleading Congress, the country, and the entire world to support and in fact take part in a war is several magnitudes beyond exageration in my world.
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Nuke, your "top officials" consisted of just the son-in-law Qusay.
Qusay was the guy who told the scientist to burry it. Maybe he had evil plans for the peice of gas centrifuge for after Hussein died or something. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Hussein had no idea that this thing was still around in someone's garden somewhere.
You're suggesting that it was hidden in order that it be dug up and put into use at some future point in time. I'm saying a) there were years of opportunity with no inspectors around to dig it up and restart the nuke program and it didn't happen. What were they waiting for? And b) why was Bush telling everyone that this nuke program was going on? We both know now that he didn't have any intelligence to support that. No satelite photos of things that weren't there. No witnesses to things that weren't happening.
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Nash - seriously - think on this for just a few seconds, and your clearing of Saddam Hussein as having a hand in the burying of the centrifuge will look pretty redundant.
Hitler didn't sign any orders, he didn't put his name down on anything except a few orders - but the rebuilding of the LuftWaffe, authorization of Jewish genocide, his name appears on none of those documents.
He left that to his minions.
Qusay told the scientist to bury it, 99.99_% probability Saddam told Qusay to tell the scientist to bury it.
-SW
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give it up nash, your hero saddam lost the war and your grasping at straws.
neo-liberals, oh brother.
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I'm grasping at straws? 'Oh brother' is right.
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The world must help the United States stop Iran and North Korea from acquiring nuclear weapons if it wants to avoid military action like in Iraq, U.S. national security adviser Condoleezza Rice said Thursday.
"We don't ever want to have to deal with the proliferation issue again the way we dealt with Iraq," Rice told the International Institute for Strategic Studies.
"If you don't want a made-in-America solution, then let's find out how to resolve the North Korean case and the Iranian case." ---
http://www.nj.com/newsflash/international/index.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cgi?a0581_BC_Britain-Rice
Here is one of the consequences of lying to the world.. Condi may very well be right but due to loss of creditability, most likely nothing will be done about NK or Iran.
Very nice write up there Nash.. Did you read that very long article in New Republic?.. I’ll try and find the link..
Oh BTW, do you guys know the CIA records all phone calls?.. Hmm I wonder if the Bushies know that..
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Originally posted by midnight Target
So Iraq was >< that close to having a bomb! All they were waiting for were those pesky sanctions to be lifted, then to dig up a 12 year old cetrifuge.. then viola! 45 minutes later.... :rolleyes:
MT....is this discovery the endall....by this little dig should we just leave and believe it's all ok?
Again, this has very little to do with the truth....these discussions are politically driven at their source....Bush should have never been elected in the first place...he's not bright enough to be president, he's this, he's that.
How easy it is to stand in judgment of another, all with the luxury of never walking in that persons shoes. I contend that if we knew the WHOLE truth about any issue, it would scare the hell out of us and we would all quickly realize how comfortable ignorance really is.
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dont forget that the shelf life of the gas that iraq had the ability to make pre-1991 was only 6 weeks or less. i think the president will escape this debacle because he managed to get around lieing about things by using half truths and having his spokesmen take all the heat.(like giving colin powell forged documents to deliver to the UN.)
I wish our governent had a system more like englands where the different oposition groups can sit and critize what the prime minister does and the prime minister can defend him self face to face with his critics. if you havnt seen this in action check it out on cspan someday. its what one would expect from a true democracy.
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one more time ...the USA is a republic, not a "true democracy"...but i nit pick...if you like england better, move there.
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actually im going to do the american thing and stay here and vote for changes and let my voice be heard. screw you and your facist ways.
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wake me up when they find something really interesting that matters....... like WMD or some other dangerous device :D
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
I wish our governent had a system more like englands...
That battle was fought and lost by your kind over 200 years ago! I'm personally glad England lost, but maybe that's just me. No offense Dowd ole Bean!
Originally posted by Frogm4n
its what one would expect from a true democracy.
Read some more history Froggie. The U.S. is a republic, not a democracy. It never was a democracy, and England sure as heck isn't either!
What kind of dream land do you people live in anyway?
Sheesh!:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Rude
MT....is this discovery the endall....by this little dig should we just leave and believe it's all ok?
Again, this has very little to do with the truth....these discussions are politically driven at their source....Bush should have never been elected in the first place...he's not bright enough to be president, he's this, he's that.
How easy it is to stand in judgment of another, all with the luxury of never walking in that persons shoes. I contend that if we knew the WHOLE truth about any issue, it would scare the hell out of us and we would all quickly realize how comfortable ignorance really is.
No Rude. If you were to take the time you would see that I was never against involvement in Iraq. I think Bush and friends oversold the issue to garner support. I don't see any evil in pointing that out. I hope I am wrong, and that WMD are found in droves. I'm not so sure this will ever happen now and that is sad for the future war on terrorism.
Trust is golden in the world of politics.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
People like Nash restore my faith in common sense.
Nash wrote:
Ok well if you READ the article Grun you'd know that Hussein didn't order the scientist to burry the part. Hussein's SON did. For all we know Hussein had no IDEA that this part was still around.
Imagine this:
Husein to son: Well that's it. We gotta kill the nuke program.
Son to Hussein: Are you serious? But DAD!
Husein to son: I'm sorry Qusay but's that's it. The program is over. Burry it.
Care to rethink your opinion of Nash? Lets see he regularly attrivutes all sorts of devious motives to the USA but proposes that we simply take Hussein at his word and belive he was happily disarming and ordering his comabtive evil sons to stop their WMD programs. If only Saddam knew! Really Nash are you so hateful of Bush and the USA that you are willing to attribute such wildly optimistic and fanciful peaceful intentions on Saddam? Are yuou nuts?
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lol what the hell kind of reply is that? I don't even know what to do with it.
Uh... whatever you say, I guess, Grun.
btw., I aint hateful of the US. I happen to think it's the bees knees. I truly love the US... warts and all.
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Its very simple, why are you so ready and willing to attribute such peaceful motives to Saddam Hussein?
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You know what Grun? At this point I reckon it's about time for YOU guys now to start answering the questions. Such as why you're so quick off the mark to defend every single action of the Bush admin. The facts have backed me up quite nicely so far, thank-you-very-much. They aint doing a thing for you...
This thread started out with high-fives by the likes of you and Syz over this wonderful WMD discovery. I answered everything you asked. I pointed out how this shows that there aint even a nuke program to begin with. You haven't had a thing to say about it beyond pulling out the typical "USA hater" nonsense... and for some reason I get pity from Syz. It's not escaping my notice that you guys haven't been able to rebut anything I've said. And all I get are more questions....
Such as now, asking why I'm willing to attribute such peaceful motives to Saddam Hussein. In actuallity I aint attributing nothing to nobody. It's Y'ALL that have accused Iraq of a WMD program. YOU guys are doing the attributing. But it's comin' up way short and nobody seems to have an explanation for THAT.
Care to give one?
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I say he was hiding stuff from the inspectors as the UN has said countless times - thats a fact.
He hid these components to restart his nuclear bomb program at some time in the future.
But you must answer why you think he would not resatrt his WMD probgram and why you are so willing to say naive things like:
Imagine this:
Husein to son: Well that's it. We gotta kill the nuke program.
Son to Hussein: Are you serious? But DAD!
Husein to son: I'm sorry Qusay but's that's it. The program is over. Burry it.
Why?
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Okay first of all... If you can't see that the little dialogue I came up with was a joke, a play on the the meaning of "burried" and how, when the orders to burry the nuke program got passed down they morphed to the point where this scientist mistakenly ended up burrying a part in his rose garden.... then there's no hope.
Actually... you did take that seriously didn't you Grun? Mmmph.
Now about this hibernation theory - I've already addressed that. You say they were hiding it for some point in the future. All I'm saying is that it wasn't until just recently when some half a million troops landed on the outskirts of his country were inspectors allowed back in. There were years when he was free to do whatever he wanted, and he didn't do a thing. The scientist wasn't ordered to dig up that piece. The program wasn't started back up again. Okay? If they were waiting, what were they waiting for?
But this brings me to MY question.... kay Grun? You wanna answer this for me finally?
If this peice was burried and the scientist was at home all day watching Dr. Phil along with the rest of 'em.... What exactly did Bush see that would convince him that Iraq was months away from building a nuke? We know he didn't see any evidence of a nuke program because we know there in fact was NOT a nuke program. So why did he say there was?
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"Ok well if you READ the article Grun you'd know that Hussein didn't order the scientist to burry the part. Hussein's SON did. For all we know Hussein had no IDEA that this part was still around.
Imagine this:
Husein to son: Well that's it. We gotta kill the nuke program.
Son to Hussein: Are you serious? But DAD!
Husein to son: I'm sorry Qusay but's that's it. The program is over. Burry it.
In any event, it was the son-in-law Qusay that ordered the parts burried, not Hussein. That takes care of your question Grun. And yours Nuke. "
Joke or no joke in the middle part, the message is claear you think Saddam was trustworthy and had no intention to rebild his nuklear progarm and that makes you an idiot. You know you are like those Stalin or Hitler apologists - If only the Fuhrer knew - they all said... Why this overwhelming need on your part to belevie that Saddam is trustworthy.
As for the Iraq war I am 100% behind it there were many reasons why it was the right thing to do and a good thing to do after 12 years on Saddams bull****.
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LOL... and we're back to you sayin', in essence, "screw it... don't bother me with the facts, I aint answering yer question, I am 100% behind this war, so take a hike."
Calling me some sort of Hitler apologist is a classic.
See ya Grun.
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If this peice was burried and the scientist was at home all day watching Dr. Phil along with the rest of 'em.... What exactly did Bush see that would convince him that Iraq was months away from building a nuke? We know he didn't see any evidence of a nuke program because we know there in fact was NOT a nuke program. So why did he say there was?
If there was no nuke program, how come that scientist had to be taken out of Iraq for his safety before he was identified? Why would he have to fear anything if there was no nuke program......after all it was only a centrifuge, no big deal to anyone.
And btw, how do you know for a fact there was no nuke program? And when did Bush say Iraq was months away from building a nuke?
What about the UN saying Iraq had wmd? It wasn't just Bush Nash, it was the UN. You do remember the UN's resolutions right? Are you just upset that Bush enforced the UN resolutions instead of letting Iraq get away with whatever it wanted?
Its funny to me to hear this new argument about Bush lying to the world about Iraq's wmd. You know before the war the main argument was that Bush wouldnt let inspectors have more time and was "going it alone" , never mentioned Bush was lying about wmd. In fact most of the world agreed Iraq probably had some wmd and banned weapons. The UN said Iraq must comply and said they had not been complying with it's resolutions to prove it had disarmed
You know what the best thing about this is Nash? It's that Iraq could have complied with it's cease-fire agreement and avoided this war.
Iraq instead chose to block inspectors from locations, then kick them out and F*** everyone around up to the last day.
If you think Iraq was trying to comply for 12 years and that they really wanted to destroy their banned weaopons, including wdm, you are a crackpot.
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Not a Hitler apologist at all - thats obviously irrelevant except for drawing the comparison - but you are certainly a Saddam appologist... Youw own words make that clear...
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Anyway you look at it, it is something that he was supposed to bring to the UN, but instead deliberately hid it from them for over a decade . And yes it is a component of a nuclear weapons program . Used to distill uranium, enriched uranium only has one use that I know of .
Everybody knows they had "tons" of nbc weapons, they admitted it, they used them, they itemized them at one point for the UN, they tested nuclear devices, they built a nuclear a weapon, they had delivery systems, guidance systems, 18kg of enriched uranium. Most of the rockets were used up .
I thought this was pretty common knowledge, did everybody suddenly develope amnesia ? Or was it all a big disinformation conspiracy perpetrated by the UN and the rest of the world ? Did congress decide to mail weaponized anthrax to themselves ?
Where did it all go ? If he destroyed it, that was a violation of the cease fire agreement. If he hid it, that was a violation of the cease fire agreement .
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They should just close down the officers mess forum. Its gone to crap and there is no way back.
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GRUNHERZ......
ever thought about having your own tv show? ... or radio if you are not pleased with your looks (makeup does wonders tho).
I sure missed the O'club when i was on vaication.
:D
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LOL! Welcome back... :D
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
I wish our governent had a system more like englands where the different oposition groups can sit and critize what the prime minister does and the prime minister can defend him self face to face with his critics. if you havnt seen this in action check it out on cspan someday. its what one would expect from a true democracy.
It does look like that doesn't it? The truth is more complicated, in that parliament is being relegated to being a talking shop whilst many important decisions are taken in camera by the executive or the prime minister's PR Flack. PMQs (prime minister's questions) is now a weekly puppet show instead of the proper grilling that he and his ministers should get.
Part of the problem is the huge majority that labour have.
Another is the 'presidential style' of PM blair
Another is the lack of an effective Opposition, as the conservatives (right wingers) have totally lost their way and now spend their time sniping at each other.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Oddly enough, I just logged on to post the same thing.
You both odd enough as I see it. Hmm. Marti and Gruni posting the same right wing drivel? Who'da figgered.
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Originally posted by Arfann
You both odd enough as I see it. Hmm. Marti and Gruni posting the same right wing drivel? Who'da figgered.
Another suprise: Arf barks some more liberal tripe!:D
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Originally posted by Syzygyone
Another suprise: Arf barks some more liberal tripe!:D
MMMmmm. Tripe! Should be some outstanding menudo at the chili cook-off in Pueblo tomorrow.
So, Marti itches, Barti scratches and Sysi says "Aaaahhhhh".
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D Letterman should deff. use the last few mins of every show with "top 10 from AH BBS" :D
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Originally posted by Arfann
MMMmmm. Tripe! Should be some outstanding menudo at the chili cook-off in Pueblo tomorrow.
So, Marti itches, Barti scratches and Sysi says "Aaaahhhhh".
Now we've resorted to "cute" tripe, eh?
BTW:
First,
tripe ( P ) Pronunciation Key n.
1) The rubbery lining of the stomach of cattle or other ruminants, used as food.
2) Informal. Something of no value; rubbish.
Not to demean your chili recipe, but I consider this an informal BBS and thus used the informal meaning.
Secondly, there is no "i" in Syzygy. "i" would be a vowel and I am boycotting vowels, don't you know!
:D
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Originally posted by Syzygyone
Secondly, there is no "i" in Syzygy. "i" would be a vowel and I am boycotting vowels, don't you know!
:D
Then, what you meant here was, "Scndly, thr s n "" in Syzygy. "" wud b vwl nd I m bycttng vwls, dn't y knw!
Nice, meaningful boycott! And not even complete, since "Y" as used in your name is actually a vowel. A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes Y. Sound familiar?
On a more serious note, I'll probably be boycotting my bowels after tomorrow's chili.
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(http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2003/01/10/2bell.jpg)
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Originally posted by Arfann
Then, what you meant here was, "Scndly, thr s n "" in Syzygy. "" wud b vwl nd I m bycttng vwls, dn't y knw!
Nanner nanner nah nah. You missed "I" We boycotters gots a hard life!
Originally posted by Arfann
On a more serious note, I'll probably be boycotting my bowels after tomorrow's chili.
ROFLMAO! LOL! :D :D :D
I hope for your rhoids' sake it is only a temporary boycott as is my vowel boycott! Actually picked that idea up from AH Channel 1. I actually managed to shoort some guy down and when it reported the kill to him, he started raggin me about my name:
Syzygy? What kind of name is that?
Buy a vowel will ya?
Or are you boycotting them.
Thought it was funny!
:cool: