Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Urchin on June 25, 2003, 06:07:57 PM
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Ok, my old car isn't dead yet. It still drives all messed up cause the transmission is hosed, but it drives. However, I've decided that you only live once and since I've always wanted to get another Mustang, I'm going to get one. I'll figure out how to pay for it later. Now, I'm looking at OLD ones (1987-1993) because that is the body style I like the most. I want to get a GT convertible, cause I've always thought those looked the coolest.
Now that all that background is out of the way- some more background and then questions.
I saw one on the internet for 3650, it is an '89 GT convertible. I went down to look at it (thats one hellacious trip... like 4 hours coming back and it is only 65 miles away.. god bless the D.C. beltway), and here are some things I saw that are wrong with it. I'd like for some of you auto-inclined people to tell me how much some of this might cost to get fixed, so I won't go in completely blind.
1. Power locks are broken.
2. Power Mirrors work going up and left, but not down or right.
3. For some reason, no matter which vent you select.. the air comes out the floor vents.
4. Two front speakers are blown (I can replace those myself tho)
5. Car needs an alignment (which is ~$80 I think) and 4 new tires (probably ~$350-400)
6. The rubber strips for the driver side window are ragged as hell, and the passenger side is only a bit better. Both windows would leak in the rain, since the windows leave a gap between where the rubber SHOULD be and where whats left of it is.
7. The car leaks oil. This kind of worries me, since that can make a car break. There was a pretty decent size oil patch under the front end of the car, the salesman said he didn't know anything about it, but I was talking to one of the mechanics there about it and he said the car will smoke from under the hood if it gets hot, and something about maybe a bad PVC valve or something? (I've never heard of that, I'm not much of a car enthusiast, although once I get my Mustang I hope to change that)
The car seems to be in pretty good shape inside and out. There are a couple little dings in the hood, and there are a couple of painted over rust spots on the driver side door. The frame looks good under the hood, so I don't think it has been wrecked (my first one had been wrecked but I was to stupid to know the frame wasn't supposed to look like that). On the inside there are a couple faint stains on the back seat, nothing to serious, and the driver seat has a small tear in it (maybe 6 inches). It starts up fine, and it idles nicely (I didn't drive it, I just checked it out). I'll see how it drives when I go back there in the next couple days. The salesman said they had replaced the brakepads, and from what I could see the rotors looked OK. I've never seen a mustang convertible up close, so I am not sure how far the top is supposed to go down in the little space (it sticks up some, I'm looking for pictures to see if that is normal or not).
All in all, they want $3650 for it. According to kellybluebook.com, the value on it is about $2,500. I'm sure he'll be able to find some teenager that doesn't care whats broken and sell it to him, so I'm curious as to how low I can go, which is why I'd like help in finding out how much the work I'd need done to it would cost. I'm thinking about offering $2,000 (the car does have 125,000 miles on it) and seeing what happens from there, but even then I'd want to make sure I don't have to put another $2k into fixing it up.
Hblair, Lazs, you two seem to know a lot about cars, so I'd much appreciate any input you could offer me. Anyone else that knows about old Mustangs can chime in too, it'll all be appreciated.
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I personally would not pay any more than blue book value unless every thing on it worked the way it is supposed to. If the car is exceptional then price can go to whatever the market will bear.
I understand your lack of funds and that does make one look at things a bit differently. I would try to get it for no more than $3k if you can.
Leaky valve cover gaskets can also cause "smoke to come up from under the hood".
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If the PCV valve is bad it can cause pressure to build up inside the cylinder head and *maybe* make oil seep out the gaskets, but I seriously doubt that is the real problem. Only seen it be a problem in forced induction cars where manifold pressure is much higher than a N/A car. PCV valves are a few bucks a piece and surely if that were the problem they would have spent a few bucks to fix it. I'd bet on the valve cover gaskets leaking onto the exhaust manifolds if there is smoke coming from under the hood when it's running. Having said that, unless you are mechanically inclined, I really don't think you should buy a car leaking oil unless you get it inspected by a neutral 3rd party mechanic. I've bought cars that leaked a quart a week, but I also knew that I could replace the offending seal for a few bucks and have a good car. If it turns out to be something serious like a crank seal or rear main seal, you could be shelling out serious bucks to have someone else fix it. Certainly not worth paying well over blue book for a car that you might have to sink another grand into in a few months. All the other stuff is minor and probably stuff you could DIY for a few $$. Since you say the alignment is off, you should also get it inspected to see if it has ever been wrecked. Frame could possibly be bent.
Personally, I'd hold out for another one. Mustangs are a dime a dozen.
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givem $2500 for it and don't go a penny more...
The mirrors can likely be either replaced with manual ones for cheap (wrecking yard) or expensive... power.
The locks... its a fricken 2 door!! who cares.
There has to be more cars to look at... They say never buy the first one you see...
Car I just bought, advertised for 3750 + 15% taxes, I took it home for $3000 inc taxes...
SKurj
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Urchin I'd advise against this car.
Not a chance it is leaking oil because of a stuck pcv valve. That may have CONTRIBUTED to an engine oil leak if the valve was stuck closed at one point in time, but like raub said, if that was the cause of the current oil leak they wouild have tossed one in for a few bucks.
Basically the pcv (positive crankcase ventilation) valve is part of the emission control system. It is a simple hollow tube with a little metal plunger inside of it that is held closed with a tiny spring.
It is held open at idle or low rpms by the natural vacuum that exists in the intake manifold to return gasses from the combustion chamber that escape up the valve guides during compression and ignition back into the fuel system to be "reburned."
When the rpms increase the vacuum pressure inside the manifold drop and the spring inside the pcv valve lowers the plunger and closes the valve. This is to prevent all the oil vapours swirling around inside the valve covers at high rpms from being pumped back into the fuel system and contaminating the various sensors inside the intake and at the mouth of the throttle body.
If the pcv valve gets stuck closed because of too much crap inside of it (coked oil, carbon, etc.) oil leaks can develop throughout the engine because of a pressure build up. Basically that blow-by gass that i mentioned above has nowhere to go so it finds the weakest point to exit, usually the valve cover gaskets.
I honestly dont think this is the case though. I have seen pcv valves get stuck on toyotas and other imports but NEVER on a Ford product, not matter how filthy it was. That plus valve covers dont usually leak so much that they will leave a puddle of oil on the ground when they arent running. The oil drains extremely quickly out of the valvetrain and back into the oil pan after you shut the car down. There simply isnt enough time for the oil to leak out and pool up on the ground.
Im thinking front engine or rear engine seal leaks. These are the seals that are at each end of the crankshaft. Both are big money to replace.
I also suspect a healthy power steering fluid leak. The power steering resevoir is on the front right side of the vehicle (you standing facing the front of the car.) Ford ps pumps are notoriously crappy for having weak bushings (yes bushings, not bearings.) and even crappier pressure fittings on the lines that go to the rack/pinion assembly. If you check the ps fluid and it is black, th ebushings are toast and the pump will be leaking and be about to fail. (the fluid should be Type F transmission fluid, a bright red.) If this is the case, you are looking at 400 bucks plus right there for new pump and lines.
Another thing that sucks about these cars in the rear differential. While the unit is strong enough, they are very difficult to work on. There are useless counter-weights right in front of the check/fill plug that are almost impossible to remove because the bolts get rusted and seize. As a result, the fluid almost never gets checked or changed. (has to be changed every 100,000 miles [thank god] with GL5 80W-90 gear oil.) If this hasnt been done the gears in the differential will have been worn with 125k miles.
My advice would be to keep shopping. You dont want to have to plunk down hard earned cash for a headache of a car that you will be turning wrenches on more than driving.
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Raubvogel is right on all counts, I would pass this one up as well.
The thing about the car you are looking, is there are tons and tons of them, keep looking and you will find one in better shape for less money? Is this one on some shady dealers lot?
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Remember, there are three blue book values, retail, private party value, and what the dealer will give you for it (trade in value). They may be about: X, 3/4 X, and 1/2 X. Consider ALL of these values to be higher than what is realistic! Dealers often try to sell cars for "thousands below blue book". This means that even with their "clean" cars, advertising, warentees, and slick sales staff, they can't get blue book. Dealers also almost never give customers what the KBB says the trade in value should be. Look between wholesale value and private party value for the price you should pay. Deduct the cost of EVERYTHING that is wrong from the value.
If you really want to save money, look for auctions. Just this Saturday I bought my most recent car at an auction. It has a "retail" value of $7,500. I paid $1,000 even, and $130 to have the exhaust fixed. Ironically, an hour after bringing it home, my old car died. I bought it at an auction 7 years ago for $800. It had a blue book of $6,000 when i bought it.
If you're willing to take a risk and can spot a decent car, auctions can be a good way to go. The more specific you are in what you want, however, the harder it's going to be to find your car.
eskimo
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Sorry, I dont know watermelon about Mustangs - I do know that large oil leaks are bad though. :D
Any smoke when you drove? Color? Under what conditions (acceleration, deceleration, etc)?
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I have to agree with the current consensus. Avoid this one unless you really like working on cars and don't mind spending major $$$ fixing one up.
That said, finding a foxbody stang that dosen't need a good bit of work is getting hard. Especially a convertable. The newest ones are 10 years old and they (by nature) tend to be ragged out. There are some gems to be had out there but, they are a bit on the expensive side.
There is a convertable gt in the local paper today asking $8500. Even if it was in excellent shape I couldn't see spending that much on one.
Hopefully you can find one, just keep in mind it may take a while. Still, be prepared to do some fairly major repairs in the near future.
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Yea, that is what I'm thinking too. I'm looking specifically for a 1987-1993 Mustang GT convertible. I know they are out there, but most of them are far to expensive for me, and they are getting harder to find.
If these guys agree to ~$2,000, I may buy it and learn how to work on the crap under the hood. Thanks a ton for the info though, I'll definately have a mechanic check it out before I decide one way or the other.
I also got the VIN number while I was looking at it- do you think it is worth the $15 to run it through Carfax or the Autocheck thing? Any ideas on which one is better?
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Wow.. so much to go into... pcv valve has nothing to do w/ cylinder head though, as someone stated. It relieves pressure in the crankcase cause by cylinder blow by.. PCV= positive crankcase ventilation.
The alignment thing could hide a myriad of problems as well. Bad tires for one... worn ball joints. This symptom could be hiding a big, expensive problem. Replace the tires before you get the alignment, as it may not be necessary. But, have the alignment $$ ready. Because if it does need one, you don't want to wear new tires on a bad alignment.
Fluids:
A minor oil leak is no big deal really, as long as the crankcase or block is not the source of the leak. Make sure it's oil and not transmission fluid. Leaking tranny fluid is more of a problem, sometimes, than leaking oil. Check the oil. Is it in fairly good condition? Make sure there is no gritty feel or metal shavings. Extremely dirty oil means an engine hasn't been well cared for. (and that the dealership wasn't wise enough to know this and change it themselves)
Check the tranny fluid level with the engine warm. Very low fluid could mean the tranny hasn't been cared for and could be worn. Smell it: does it smell burnt? Tranny fluid should be pinkish, but it is not mandatory. If a tranny has fluid, and is working well... leave it alone.
Radiator fluid: check the level, it should be relatively full but if it isn't, this isn't necessarily a big deal.
Excessive rust in the fluid can indicate a poorly maintained radiator. Feel it. It should feel slippery. If it doesn't, it could indicate there is only water in the radiator and if you buy the car you'll want to fix that. Run the engine with the cap off, can you see that the water is flowing from one side of the radiator to the other? Poor or no flow could be indicative of a clogging radiator or weak weak water pump.
I could go on, but I'm tired of typing. Good luck!!!
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The nice thing about foxbody stangs is they are easy to work on for a fuel injected car. Its probibly not a bad place to start if you want to learn how to fix cars. Parts are plentiful and cheap to.
Also, is it a manual for auto?
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3. For some reason, no matter which vent you select.. the air comes out the floor vents.
Vents are actuated by engine vaccuum. A bad or disconnected hose could explain this.
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as someone said above pcv valve is cheap and if that where the problem they would have fixed it before trying to sell it.
the only problem with pcv is more likely that it can't keep up with compression blowing past the rings or valve guides.
unless you have an extensive set of tools and the knowledge and inclination to use them, run from this car.
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I would pass on this one. There are a lot of GT converts out there with the 5.0 motor. Get a 5 speed. never seen one that the power mirrors didn't work on.
pvc... who knows? if you have blowby then most likely the thing has been beat to death... It is amazing how much abuse those 5.0's can take... IU have had two of em, both 5 speeds. One a 88 convert and one a 91 california highway patrol car... I beat the crap outta both of em and had no trouble except with e brake cable's and little crap.
I sold the CHP car for 3 grand a little while ago and it had 3.55 gears and a little bit of performance mods... the kid wrapped it around a pole 2 weeks after he handed me the cash.
5.0's have forged pistons.. they use oil (like one quart between changes) and if you listen you can hear em slap when cold but you aint gonna break nothin important in a 5.0 5 speed car... a real clutz can kill the clutch but I put 100,000 miles on the clutch in the last car.
One other thing... I never really got tired of driving that car. It was allways fun... not very comfortable and not very practical (no room no trunk) but.... allways fun to drive..
lazs
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oh... the 5.0's barely pass smog when brand new.. I never got through a smog check without replacing some sensor or two... allways cost me between 100-400 bucks to get the thing smogged. It/they allways ran good tho.
lazs
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It is a 5 spd, and the power mirrors still don't work lol. They don't work on my cougar (same problem, they go up and left, but not down or right).. I just set them and don't worry about them.
I'm going to go down Saturday if the car is still available and 'test drive' it. I'm also going to have them move the car and sit it there for an hour to see if the car leaks oil when it is running or when it is not running.
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Does it have a single switch for both mirrors? If it does and you have the same problem on both sides, then the problem might be in the switch. There are dosens of reasons for oil leaks...Was the leaking oil red(ATF)? Personally I haven't seen a single american car without an oil leak. If the car is otherwise in good shape I wouldn't reject it because of these "small" faults.