Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on June 26, 2003, 07:50:32 PM
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Yes, we all know that the "Big 4" have at least 50% of the usage in the arena. I say at least 50% because there is no way to tell how many sorties are flown by different planes. Now, I, and I alone, think Aces High has gotten stagnant in the past year, with no updates to speak of and none of the near horizon. So, instead of doing the whole perk everything approach, which would obviously be a bad financial decision for Hitech and company, and thus unthinkable, I posted in a couple other threads about a different way of doing things.
There is a rating known as ENY in Aces High. Apparently it is assigned at random to different planes, and it impacts how many 'perk points' you get for landing a sortie. So, instead of assigning the values at random, or based on some purely subjective means of 'how good' a plane is, the values should be assigned based on how much use a plane gets compared to the most-used plane in the arena. To prevent 'runs' on certain planes, the values could be updated daily. At the beginning of each new tour, the values are calculated anew based on the usage for the previous tour. Thus, if we were to implement the system now, you might see the following numbers for ENY values at the start of the first day.
Spitfire IX: 1 ENY (41,764 kills)
La-7: 1 ENY (39,606 kills / 1.05 rounded down to 1)
P-51D: 1 ENY (37,516 kills / 1.11 rounded down to 1)
N1K2: 1 ENY (32,158 kills / 1.31 rounded down to 1)
Now for some random selections
P-47-D11: 15 ENY (2,832 kills/ 14.74 rounded up to 15)
190D9: 3 ENY (14,467 kills / 2.88 rounded up to 3)
P-40B: 192 ENY (218 kills / 191.57 rounded up to 192)
Spitfire I: 68 ENY (614 kills / 68.01 rounded down to 68)
This would be a strictly proportional system. As it stands now, the vast majority of the population of the MA would not be impacted AT ALL by this. They can keep flying their Spits/N1Ks/La7/P-51 and they will never have to move to a different plane if they don't want to. This method does not restrict anyone's 'free choice' of airplane. On the other hand, it DOES reward those who choose to fly inferior planes. A person who flew a sortie with a P-40B and killed an La-7 and a N1K2 would earn 384 perks as a base, possibly more if he managed to land them. Yes, we know collectively that perk points are pretty useless, since the La-7 is a Tempest in all but name, but it could have two effects, or rather 1 effect but at two ends of the scale.
Firstly, some people will gravitate towards the inferior early war planes because by doing so they will earn perks. This may push the use of the C202/P-40b/109E/Spit I out of the .001% range for usage. Furthermore, it will lead to more perk planes flying around. Now, most people realize that the perk planes are not all that great compared to the La-7 in particular, and the rest of the Big 4 in general, and so they are somewhat rare now, and usually flown very timidly by people that are afraid to get shot down and lose their precious perk points. I think that if the perk planes were made more easily attainable (as this method would do) people would fly the perk planes more, and more aggressively because they would be more comfortable in them (since they get to fly them more often), and since losing one would not mean you couldn't fly another one for a month.
Now, with all that said, I'd like to point out that in one instance the proliferation of perk points might not be a great idea. That would be in the case of the Me262. As crappy as the plane is, most people still can't stand having one buzzing around them ineffectively. So, in the 262s case I would recommend raising the perk cost. For the other perk planes I would keep the perks as they are now, and not increase them. The goal is to increase variety in the MA, and perk planes would be a welcome sight to so many who can tell whether or not a con is a N1K, Spit, La-7, or P-51D at about 10,000 yards.
Again, this method would not restrict ANYONE'S choice. If all you want to fly is the La-7 or P-51D, you are more than welcome to. Furthermore, even your perk point gathering would not be that affected, since you could still get 1 point per kill as long as you killed the more common planes. I do believe that this system of constantly changing ENY values would increase variety (and fun) in the MA by quite a bit. If you feel like making a suggestion, or have a comment on the system, please feel free to add anything. Anyone in the FDB's, you are exempt from that request. Please keep your inane bull**** out of this thread.
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You go Urchie.
For it.
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Well, for starters, if it's a "non-problem," no solution is required.
Finally, why is it a problem? Spits are no more difficult to kill than a 109 unless a good stick happens to be in the plane. And if he's a good stick, it doesn't matter what he's flying, it's going to be tough to kill him.
The only problem that I see is that a large fraction of the MA crowd flies planes that you think inappropriate.
I have an idea. Why don't you weenies that worry so much about what others fly put your money where your mouth is? You can each sponsor a MA pilot. The idea is that you pay his HTC bill for a month and he will fly planes that you think are appropriate.
curly
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Available to be sponsored
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Top 4 haven't had over 40% of the fighter kills since Tour17.
MiniD
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My K\D on the top 4 is very positive
what's the prob ??
They are my food
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Because we want diversity, spit/p51/n1k/la7 gets pretty damn old after a while.
I'm sure the 'non-problem' was sarcasm,
All this is doing is adding incentive to fly different planes without limiting a choice.
The problem isn't in the suggestions provided, it's the fear of anything new and the bandwagon tendancies of people to stand behind someone.
Personally i think all these threads are pointless because HTC doesnt give a flying fark anymore, at least not enough to devote 15 minutes to change these values, let alone COMMENT on them, yet time and time again i'm here supporting new ideas just to have doomsayers start screaming "bad idea, i'll quit!".
These forums are now for our community conflicts, and that alone.
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The problem is also "the perceived problem". This is an attempt to try to modify other people's plane choice.... because someone doesn't like what other people are flying. As a rule, they modified that in war by shooting the planes down, or died trying. In AH, you just come to the bbs and whine about it.
MiniD
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If you want to dictate what the enemy flies, they have these things called "single player boxed sims".
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Shyaddup Mini-d, you're not as good of a pile-it as Urchin. You shouldn't be participating in his thread. Speaking of which, I'll be leaving now.
SOB
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Problem
Too many people flying around in la7s, niks p51’s and spit9s
Solution
Urchin’s idea.. plus perk above planes 5 pts each as base. If your new, you gotta fly an old funky spit1 or a huricane.. and earn the right to a spit1X..
Same with the pony.. you gotta get real good with the eleven before your allowed to get near the shiny Cadillac
Luffie planes too... ah naw naw.. you don’t be taking the Dora up on your first night online.. That ought to be a reserved ride ;)
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There should be F4Us available in the newly dedicated Pac arena 24 hrs a day at their current perk levels. Along with some more IJ planes modeled.
Just thought I'd throw that in. ;)
And we despirately need a dedicated SCW arena and planeset.
Pac ...
SCW ...
:D
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No, I don't think perking anything that isn't perked already (besides maybe the La7) isn't that good of an idea. There are a lot more new people than there ever were before, and a lot of those need to have something easier just to compete. What I would like to do is to give the people that don't need those planes to compete a reason to fly something else.
Is the La-7 better than the Spitfire 14? Who knows? Honestly, who knows? Who has enough experience in the Spit 14 to say? I don't and I've flown the Spit 14 quite a bit. I, personally, THINK the La-7 is better, but I haven't flown the Spit 14 enough to really come to a conclusion. Why? Simple, it isn't worth flying. Being a rare "perk plane" the gangbanging gets even more intense than normal if you try to actually get down and fight in one. So who really has enough experience in the Spit 14 to get all the performance the plane can give? Probably nobody right now- but that might change if people started flying it more often. And I think people would start flying it more often if getting the enough perks to fly one meant shooting down two Spit 9s in a 109E4 or a C202 or a Hurricane I, or some other crap airplane that nobody flies because there is no reason to fly them.
Mini- you are exempt from the exemption, as long as you can keep yourself from displaying the kind of idiocy SOB kindly added to the thread. The top 4 may not have 40% of the fighter to fighter kills, but they've been steady at ~40-41% (its been a couple months since I added up the totals) of TOTAL kills. And the MA has GVs and bombers flying around too, and they get killed just like fighters do. And you know as well as I do that the total percentage of kills doesn't mean a thing as far as total percent of use. I'd be willing to bet that the top 4 actually make up at least 50% of the sorties flown in the MA, at a minimum.
Curly & Mini, apparently you guys aren't tired of seeing the same 4 planes over and over again ad nauseum. I am. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but I know I'm not the only one that is sick of it. There are other things I'm tired of as well, like the constant fuel porking and the sorry state of the ground vehicles, so the overwhelming proliferation of the top 4 planes may or may not be the primary reason for my lack of enthusiam for the game- but it is definately a factor. It also happens to be one that could be fairly easily "fixed" to add some diversity to the MA without "forcing" people to fly planes that I think are "appropriate".
I, personally, don't hold much hope of anything changing before AH2.0 comes out, whenever that will be. So yes, perhaps I'm just squeaking, or whining, or griping, or however you want to put it. However, pigs may fly, and hell may freeze over, and Hitech just may look at this idea and think it is a good idea, and change it. So that is why I'm doing it.
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Urchin, you and I have been around AH for many years now. I have remained in the background. You have put forth wonderful ideas over the years. In the past this effort was rewarded and respected.
Now, it is easier to defame and incite than to support and constructively criticize.
Add to that that HTC is a shadow of the company it once was. I personally think its gotten too large, and attitudes by its clientel to rude. There is no more interaction between the developers and the clients. HTC can't stand the pain of the interaction anymore.
I'm sure they read and listen, but there is no cementation or communication. To communicate would be a one way conversation, and not at all polite or respectful for HTC employees.
As a long time vet back to near beta, this is my perception.
As a perfect testament to the degrading of HTC's involvement in their product can no better be illustrated by the amount of flight time put into it by its employees. They no longer play their own game for fun. Its a 9-5 job for them now. The camaraderie has passed and the sun has set.
HTC has resorted to cash contests where once it only needed to log on and wing with its customers in a wicked dog fight on the deck.
I cherish a fight I had with Dale in his HogC vs my C205. But I have to remember 2+ years for that. No new memories, no new stimulations.
I have no answers, I am just a customer that has lost his faith. I continue to pay my monthly dues in the hope that one day, good times will fly again. At this price point I can afford to hold on to that hope. At the old price point, the account would have been canceled. Personally, I think at the old price point, things would not have deteriorated quite so far into the cesct pool of human existence.
Back into the background with me where I will continue to cherish old camaraderie in a virtual world that has long passed its prime, and pay for my hopes of future enjoyment.
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WarChild,
I saw that too. I looked at HiTech's monthly totals and there was nothing in the last two months and practically nothing in the months before that.
Then I looked at his totals in the first few tours...
:(
I hope HiTech is still enjoying himself.
That goes for all of the HTC employees.
As to the naysayers regarding Urchin's ideas: How was his idea forcing people to fly different aircraft?
Would suddenly facing Tempests, F4U-4s and Spitfire Mk XIVs in your P-51Ds and La-7s be the thing forcing you to change?
Welcome to the world that we fans of non-"top ten" aircraft have had to deal with always.
You say that we are not being forced and that we have free choice, but you know that is a load of pure BS.
Flying P-51Ds around in a sky full of Tempests and Spitfire Mk XIVs would sure put a dent in your "free choice", and that is really no different than us flying around in a sky full of P-51Ds and La-7s.
Personally I think Urchin's idea is too extreme because it is sucha dramatic change that the results are nearly impossible to identify and they could be quite harmful, but you shot it down on baseless charges.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Personally I think Urchin's idea is too extreme because it is sucha dramatic change that the results are nearly impossible to identify and they could be quite harmful, but you shot it down on baseless charges.
Baseless? You mean his plan wasn't based on his perception of folks flying planes that he was tired of seeing? You mean his plan didn't involve a scheme to involuntarily move folks out of the planes they want to fly?
Damn, guess I need to take perception 1001 again.
curly
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How is it forcing people into other rides? Ummmmm.... take a moment and seriously think about that.
What is it intended to do? Is it intended to make life more or less uncomfortable for one group? Is it strictly positive?
Sorry... but its not. The best you can argue is "It won't hurt them as bad as perking their planes".
Fixing problems that don't exist is not good policy... period.
MiniD
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I would tend to think a problem does exist if it is getting this much attention on the BBS of late.
I don't know the numbers but it almost looks even split between those bored of the current MA environment, and those who think everything is fine as is.
Why does'nt someone post a poll so we can see if this is a problem for the bulk of the community..(well at least the portion that actually reads the BBS) or not?
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You said the magic words: Bored with the MA.
As far as complaining about this "problem"... its been around for a long time... back when planes were used half again to twice as much as they are now. Hell... people complained about seeing too many Spitfires when there were only 4 planes.
The fact is, the people in the MA decide what they want to fly. Attempting to dictate it is not a solution.
Personally, I wish people cared less about what the better ride was and cared more about following their heart with plane selection. "What's the best plane?" is a question that it pains me to see on Ch. 1.
The solution? Add more planes. You stand a better chance of getting people into the rides they actually like if its actually available. Right now, there's a good chance it isn't.
Of course, we now have an arena where people are trying to compete with their betters. How are they supposed to do that if only their betters can afford the really cool planes?
Elitism. Elitism. Elitism.
MiniD
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Check my MA scores to see my solution to the "problem."
no, don't waste your time. I'll tell you. I just don't fly the MA anymore. I get variety in the CT every weekend (tho lately, just on Fridays.) Last week was USAAF vs LW in late war, tonight is P-40E vs C202 action.
Of course, it's not for everyone, and frankly, I don't care. :p I enjoy it, my squaddies enjoy it, and a few other people to shoot at enjoy it so that's all that matters... of course getting them to switch sides so it's not 20 to 10 numbers is a pain. ;)
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AKCurly, Mini D,
Well, shucks, then you must just hate the current perk system 'cause his idea just changes the awards.
His idea didn't force anybody to change aircraft. It didn't perk any aircraft that are currently free. You'd still be able to fly Spit IXs, P-51Ds, La-7s and N1K2s for absolutely free. All he did was suggest that the rewards for flying the less common aircraft be increased to what he thinks would be meaningful levels.
There was nothing in is suggestion that would force people to do anything and how it would make you uncomfortable I haven't a clue.
What is it? Something like "Its not fair that the guy flying that P-40B got 480 perk points for landing two Spitfire Mk IX kills but I only got 2.5 perk points for doing the same in my P-51D?
How does that make you uncomfortable?
He isn't trying to force people into other aircraft by making them uncomfortable, he is simply adding a bigger carrot to the rarer aircraft to add value to them. The common aircraft already have large carrots from the performce they have and that wouldn't change. In no way did he reduce the carrots of the popular aircraft as nobody flies them for perk gathering anyways. Hell, they'd even still get a full perk point for shooting eachother down.
No, it is clear to me that your reactions were knee jerk responses to an issue that many posters feel needs addressing and many others feel is not an issue.
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How do I solve the personal problem of trying to see perk points as "meaningful" in some (any?) way?
I know, it's a personal problem.
:D
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The plan is good but the people that live in the SPit9 LA7 N1k1 P51D wont care about the changed ENY value plan Urchin suggested, only the rest of us who like to fly the early war plane set. Hate to say it but perking planes is the only way you are ever gonna change someone elses ride of choice.
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Originally posted by Toad
How do I solve the personal problem of trying to see perk points as "meaningful" in some (any?) way?...
We could have them redeamable for AH gear. 5,000 gets you a #2 pencil with an AH logo. 7,500 gets you the ball point pen. 20,000 would net you an AH mug and at 30,000 you get the hat.
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Originally posted by Karnak
AKCurly, Mini D,
His idea didn't force anybody to change aircraft. It didn't perk any aircraft that are currently free. You'd still be able to fly Spit IXs, P-51Ds, La-7s and N1K2s for absolutely free. All he did was suggest that the rewards for flying the less common aircraft be increased to what he thinks would be meaningful levels.
Is rewarding one behavior penalizing another one? Think about it just a little more karnak... I know you can do it.
You aren't enticing people to fly other planes by giving them extra perk points... you're effectively reducing the number of points for what they are currently flying. That way... the people the fly the off-beat planes can afford even... um... more uber than the otherguy's planes?
MiniD
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Another reminder ....
A dedicated Pac arena .... (with more balance by creating a Japanese planeset that simulates unlimited production of the limited number of somewhat more uber IJ planes that saw some service during the war).
A dedicated SCW arena that has an SCW planeset and terrain featuring uber-bipes and fields close together (which is historically correct, even) ... furball heaven. Mucho grande' funo.
Thank you ... now resuming the perk method of fixing things to be more fun for everyone. :D
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Is rewarding one behavior penalizing another one? Think about it just a little more karnak... I know you can do it.
No. If it were I could consider Bill Gates to be penalizing me because he makes more money.
You aren't enticing people to fly other planes by giving them extra perk points... you're effectively reducing the number of points for what they are currently flying.
Not by all that much though given than a large percentage of their kills are made up of Spit IXs, N1K2s and P-51Ds. Aircraft that they now get only a perk point for and for which they would still get a single perk point. They'd actually get a little more for the La-7 than they do now.
Yes, they would get less for the rarer aircraft, but they hardly get anything now so it isn't much of a real number reduction.
Keep in mind that the current system does this same thing, just not to the extremes of Urchin's idea.
Above and beyond that players who are on the edge of flying other things besides the Big Four would have a reason to do so.
That way... the people the fly the off-beat planes can afford even... um... more uber than the otherguy's planes?
That is the idea of the current perk system too. Urchin's idea hasn't changed that at all.
To change that it would have to be set so that getting a kill in the Spitfire Mk IX (first place killer) would get you just as many perk points as getting a kill in the P-40B (last place killer). Does that sound like a good idea?
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Karnak, if it hasn't changed anything... how is it going to change anything again?
You can't have your cake and eat it too. It just doesn't work that way.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Is rewarding one behavior penalizing another one? Think about it just a little more karnak... I know you can do it.
You aren't enticing people to fly other planes by giving them extra perk points... you're effectively reducing the number of points for what they are currently flying. That way... the people the fly the off-beat planes can afford even... um... more uber than the otherguy's planes?
MiniD
Not true DJ. If you do nothing but fly the La-7, yes you might earn slightly fewer perks for killing a P-40B than you do now. Instead of getting 1/6th of a point, you'd get like 1/200th of one. However, if you kill another La-7 you still get 1 point, just like you do now. If you kill a Spitfire, you get 1 point, if you kill a N1K2 you get 1 point, if you kill a P-51D you get 1 point. You might see a slight drop in perk points gotten from the "second tier" planes, like if you killed a D-9 now you'd get about .75 of a perk, if they changed the system you'd get about .33 of one. That could change, depending on how much the second tier planes get used as perk gatherers.
Furthermore, the perk costs of the current perk planes aren't rising. You kill 8 P-51s in an La-7, and you can still fly a C-hog. Kill 20 and you have enough points to fly a Ta-152. Skip the Ta-152 and 40 kills later you have enough to fly a Spit 14 or Tempest. The only difference is that the people flying the low-use planes can get more perks per kill. That is the only difference.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Karnak, if it hasn't changed anything... how is it going to change anything again?
You can't have your cake and eat it too. It just doesn't work that way.
MiniD
You misread what I meant I think. I meant that it didn't change anything vis a' vis punishing players for flying Spit IXs, La-7s, P-51Ds or N1K2-Js. They aren't really punished now and they wouldn't really be punished under Urchin's system.
It does change the reward for flying lower usage aircraft and those petential rewards might induce some players to try some new aircraft.
You guys are making it out to be a fundamental change in the game and all it really is a change in the degree of the rewards for flying rare aircraft.
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Pray tell urchin... what are they going to do with all those additional perk points? What are they going to do when they can get 200 perk points with one kill?
Tell me again how this is going to promote use for the lesser planes... or is it for the perk planes? Or what?
Of course, now that just one sortie in a "lesser" plane can get me into an Me262... why fly it much more than that?
You aren't considering anything really... other than just trying to penalize the lessers by giving their betters perk planes after a single sortie?
Nah... not penalizing... and will do nothing but increase the ammount of lesser utilized planes (perk planes included).
Too many holes to waste any more time on urchin. You keep trying to crusade on behalf of the betters. It suits you.
MiniD
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Mini D,
He said the perk prices on the jets / rockets would have to be increased. He suggested 10,000 points for the Me262.
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Well, as usual, I agree totally with Urchin. In fact, I think that perk system would give me an incentive to start playing AH regularly once again.
On another note, what've you been up to urch? ;)
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First of all let me say that I think this is a great idea. I've been thinking about this myself for quite some time, but I just don't feel like taking the time to follow up on a suggestion and fighting off the flamers that refuse to read the original idea, and perform the proverbial knee-jerk. Trying to talk to MiniD on this subject appears to be an effort similar to his avatar. Mini, your responses, for the most part, ignored the crux of the idea and picked out the phrases that you wanted to use to argue with. The perk system, as it is now, is set up to reward players for flying planes that have lower statistical advantage over other planes. All Urchin is suggesting is that HTC increase this advantage, for the simple reason that it is not enough of an advantage now to balance the planes that are being flown. I don't choose to fly most of the planes on the top four list myself, and really don't have any problem with anyone that does choose to fly them. But I certainly would enjoy more of a variety of planes to fight, and I think that the added inentive might just do the trick. The main thing here though, is that it most certainly will not force anyone to not fly any plane that they can currently fly in the MA. A newbie will still be able to roll an La7 up from a capped field where I can vulch him in my a8. I say give it a try, maybe as just a trial for a few tours, and see what happens. They can always change it back if it is detrimental to the enjoyment of their product.
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Good idea. It'd be nice to see early war planes have their day, instead of all those flipping tiresome late war planes. I'd have a darned sight morerespect for folks racking up scores in early 109s, Spits and Zeros than I do for those who just keep racking up kills in Ponys, N1K1s, late Spits and La7s.
Here's another suggestion: Make the late war planes available only well away from the initial front lines. That way, anyone wanting to use, say an La7 whilst their side is pushing forward will have to "ferry" it forward, landing at a base to refuel nearer the front before getting into the action. It'd mean it'd take a bit more concerted effort tomake the final push in the MA, and give those defending their last few fields a bit of an edge, so long as their better pilots didnt lose too many perk planes.
Esme
PS: I'd also like to see an experimental map with just 1 large, a couple of medium and 4 small fields per sector per country and as many GV sitesas the terrain can take. large buffs only at large fields, and limitations on fighter types available at medium and large bases. Make it possible to refuel and rearm fighters at GV bases (but NOT respawn them). Buffs can rearm and refuel at any airfield they land at, but only spawn at medium or large fields, asappropriate. That way a ground war is encouraged, and losing a single air base hurts. It could induce large ground wars to try to surround and capture airfields. fighters can land nearer the frontline than where they took off, but have to be careful about doing it.
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The problem with the idea is that perk points are meaningless. What am I gonna do with thousands of more perk points?
People are going to fly what they can get kills in. If their skill level or their perception of their skill level is such that they feel they need an edge, they will take what they percieve to be a plane that gives them the best odds of getting a kill. Getting any kill is much more rewarding to them than the chance to earn more perks.
Most fights against the percieved "uber" planes are easy enough to win anyways. Putting these folks in the crappier planes just means the MA will be a giant baby seal hunt.
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Furious, perk points aren't very useful now, I'll grant you that. Some people won't fly the perk planes because they aren't that much better than the free planes, and they don't seem like a good 'investment' of perk points.
That said, most of the people that don't like the perk planes might like them more if losing one wasn't such a 'big deal'. Some people don't like losing perk points, and usually all of the perk planes are so rare that if you do take one, you end up fighting every enemy in the area while the friendly planes are all wondering what happened to their fights. Some people have flown the perk planes, and have decided purely on performance that they don't really like them that much. I'm one of those people, maybe you are too.
Now, I think changing the ENY system to a purely proportional system would do two things. First, it would lead to a greater number of perk planes flying around. Hopefully, it would lead to a greater number of perk planes actually fighting, since if you lose your plane you can get another one really easily. HTC, for whatever reason, has set the 'bar' for free plane performance at the La-7. None of the free planes are better all around (for fighting anyway) than the La-7. Furthermore, only the Tempest has anything like the performance the La-7 has as a perk plane. The Spit 14 is to slow to catch one, so is the F4U-4 (although it is a lot closer), and the Ta-152 isn't even close. So all of these perk planes flying around won't be that great a disruption to the current Big 4 type fliers. They will, however, give similar performance to the P-51 or La-7, depending on which plane you pick, but instead of seeing yet another P-51/La-7, you'll get to fight a F4U-4 or Tempest.
Second, I think it would lead to an increased number of 'under-utilized" planes being flown. Depending on how much someone wants to fly some perk plane, they might go with a middle of the road plane like the La-5 or the 109G-2, or a completely ununsed plane like the C202 or P-40. Either way, diversity in the MA will increase on that end. By the way, apparently you and your squadmates have a much lower opinion of the average pilot than me and my 'elitist' supporters. You and Dejavu seem to think that nobody except the very best pilots can get kills in anything but an La-7/P-51/N1K/Spit, which is patently untrue.
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Very good suggestion. It would work for me.
Charon
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I like it Urchin...certainly worth a try.
DmdMax
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Urchin: And exactly how do you fit the perk planes ENY value into this skeam? Btw it basicly how we set the values already, and they are NOT random.
Another thing your system does not take into account is plane popularity based soly on a historical basis. i.e. just because a plane has more kills and is flown more, dosn't make it the better plane.
WarChild, you don't have a clue what we have been doing. Try critisizing something you know about.
HiTech
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I don't play that often nowdays, but I just don't see much of a problem.
In my opinion, the diversity you see now in the MA is the best its ever been.
If I remember my last sortie correctly I launched a pony and climbed towards a contested field.
I remember seeing a friendly inbound with a B-17 and passed one otw with a c-47. Got in a fight with a f6, got buzzed by a 190D, chased after a p-38 a while but didn't follow him to the deck. Saw a gaggle of la7's, spits, and Hurri's defending the field. Helped vulched a lanc that was trying to up (what was he thinking) and finally got kilt by a F4d.
(shrug) That was just one sortie. I often run into p47's, 109's, niki's on occation, even the odd 205.
Frankly, I think some of you drama queens need to go out and get laid or something.
Wab
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Originally posted by hitech
WarChild, you don't have a clue what we have been doing. Try critisizing something you know about.
HiTech [/B]
Hitech, I didn't make any comments on what you are doing. I made comments on my preception of what isn't being done anymore. Things are done different and my opinion stated. I apologise you felt threatened enough to lash out on a customer.
One last point. My comment was 100% on what I know about. My experince as a 3 year customer of your company. How many of those do you have left? How many are leaving and how fast?
On the positive note. Such interaction with customers as you are currently engaging Urchin IS one of the things I always loved about this company.
Good day.
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Another thing your system does not take into account is plane popularity based soly on a historical basis. i.e. just because a plane has more kills and is flown more, dosn't make it the better plane.
Like the N1K2 or the Lagg 7? :)
My favorite spit is the 16 (which isn't modeled) followed by the 14, which is modeled, but which costs 60 perk points to fly and is an easy loss unless you keep it in full cherry pick mode. A high P-51 or a co alt La7 can easily run it down, which wouldn't be that bad if it was a 1v1 world, but it usually just slows you down enough to get killed by the crowd.
I'm not one of the gangbangers - most of the time I fly solo or with a single wingman. I like to dogfight. The only reason I fly an LA7 (which I do dogfight, even against spits up to about 3 v 1 odds) is that I hate to be killed by some nameless face in the conga line. An LA7 allows me to find good fights and seperate when the red cloud shows up on the horizon. Period. Speaking as a now common LA7 pilot I would have no problem with an environment where there is more of a 1943/early 44 focus. Light perks on the 44 set, eny adjustments, whatever. It would be an improvement to me at least.
With the exception of the F6F and 205, there doesn't seem to be too much lower-end diversity. [edit: The Zero, FM2 and Spit 5 play a role in base defense, but I haven't been able to get may kills using these planes lately because they are just too slow to catch the Jabo runs.] Frankly, since I don't mind losing but still have enough of an ego to hate being easy meat to a cloud of 1945 monsters, I won't be adding to that diversity very much myself. At the same time, the occasional tempest of Spit 14 wouldn't even be that bad a thing, but they seem even rarer than the 1941 set, IMO.
I have virtually no idea what the HTC goals are with the perk setup, but I can only assume it is to preserve a mainstream 1944 environment because that is exactly what it does in the MA. In today's MA where speed is life for the "solo" flyer who actually likes to land a few, or even get a few kills at planes moving faster than 400 mph on their way to Jabo a field, then it does limit choice. [edit: Maybe it's more of a solo flyer vs squad/numbers flyer thing, but it is noticable to me.] Still worth the $15 though.
Frankly, given the Jabo capabilities of the 44/45 set, a 1943 arena might even take care of some of the steamroller jabo gamplay we're seeing now as well. Just my $.02.
Charon
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Originally posted by hitech
Urchin: And exactly how do you fit the perk planes ENY value into this skeam? Btw it basicly how we set the values already, and they are NOT random.
Another thing your system does not take into account is plane popularity based soly on a historical basis. i.e. just because a plane has more kills and is flown more, dosn't make it the better plane.
WarChild, you don't have a clue what we have been doing. Try critisizing something you know about.
HiTech
I'd set the perk planes ENY to 1, just like the Top 4. I would also adjust the perk value on the Me262, although I don't know what value to start with, as you would want that plane to stay comparitively rare. The only other perk plane that has any kind of significant performance advantage over the La-7 is the Tempest, so seeing more prop perk planes in the MA would not effect the character of the arena much, in my opinion.
As far as plane popularity goes, I actually think most people select their ride based on how effective it is, not how popular or 'well-known' it is to aviation enthusiasts or the general public. The P-51D and Spitfire are popular because they are effective. The guns are good on both planes, the performance is good on both planes, and they are both amoung the easiest planes to fly for their respective 'schools' of fighting. Speaking from a personal standpoint, I had played some boxed sims before I played Aces High, so I knew something of the various planes that had participated in the war. I knew all the big U.S., British, and German planes, and I knew about the Zero. Until I started playing Aces High, I never knew there was a version of the F4U that had 4 cannons- and I suspect neither did many people. They chose it over the F4U-1D for one reason- it was more effective.
I had never heard of the N1K2 before I started flying Aces High. I suspect the same is true of many people, and it my opinion people use it because it is simply more effective than most planes, for turnfighting. The La-7 is the same story, except I'd be willing to wager than most people (even the really well informed ones) had never paid much attention to the Eastern Front, and would probably not have known the La-7 from a hole in the ground until they started playing Aces High.
As far as the current ENY values, yes I exagerated in describing them as random. I apoligize for that, I know they are set in accordance with usage. However, the values are somewhat out of date, and in some cases don't make much sense if they are based on usage. The 110G2 and 190F8 are good examples, as is the P-51 vs La7. I'm sure there are other examples as well, but those are the only two that sprung to mind.
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No Urchin, it is not a matter of contempt. It is simply a matter of perception. People percieve that they will be more deadly in the "uber" planes. For the most part they are right, as you yourself have stated these planes are more effective and fairly forgiving of mistakes.
My point is that more perks will never be as rewarding as a kill message. People are going to fly what gives them the greatest reward.
...and I want them to. I want to get in as many fights as possible. If a certain plane or group of planes enboldens one to fight over say a less forgiving or slower or more difficult plane, then I am all for it.
If perks were truly useful it might work, but we don't have anything really worthwhile to spend them on. Now if you could, for example, spend perks on increasing personal fuel loads at bases with 25% fuel, or taking ordinance when bunkers were down, or repairing damage while on the rearm pad, etc. then maybe more perks would be an enticement to try the less capable planes.
Having a million dollars does you no good when there is nothing to buy with it.
Until there is something worth buying, there is no incentive to earn.
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But of course ...
A seperate Pac dedicated arena would certainly be nice and inspire players to fly and try some of the newer IJ plane models that HT would obviously add to balance it.
And the SCW arena would provide a wonderful change of pace for the dedicated dogfighter!
The perk system is just a limit to what a dweeb can fly.
Yeah ... I'm a dweeb! ;)
:D
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Well, furious, that's true for many people. They will fly what gives them the greatest reward. But I think that people of an average skill level or above would fly the early war planes so they could familiarize themselves with the perk rides. I know I would. Mind you, I probably wouldn't hop in a C.202, as I hate that thing, but I'd definitely hop in a 109F or G2 (well.. they were my tour planes a few month ago).
Personally, I would love to be able to fly the perk planes we have at a lesser expense. At the moment, the only perk plane that is actually worth flying is the 262.. but those things are boring. Not wanting to flay someone alive when I lose a tempest or spit14 would be a nice change, and I'm sure many other people would agree.
Unfortunately, it seems that hitech as already rejected this idea, as he has already picked it apart. A shame if you ask me.
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I apologise you felt threatened enough to lash out on a customer.
jeezus grow a spine...don't whine that HT doesn't engage with his customer base and then quickly hide behind some PC "customer is always right please coddle me" BS when he does.
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Errr .... did I mention ....
Seperate
Pac
Arena
(With some additional IJ planes modeled for balance)
Aaaaaand
Spanish
Civil
War
Arena
(With a decent SCW planeset and a realistic terrain)
Yet?