Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: eddiek on June 28, 2003, 01:45:13 PM
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Subject: NOT in the news
How many of us read this text, or saw it in the news?
Airplane Shoe Bomber Sentencing
Now here is a judge whom we can trust and of whom we can feel very proud.
The Ruling by Judge William Young U.S. District Court
It is noteworthy, and deserves to be remembered far longer than he predicts.
January 30, 2003 United States vs. Reid. Judge Young:
"Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.
On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of
the United States Attorney General.
On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each
count, the sentence on each count to run consecutive with the other.
That's 80 years.
On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years consecutive to
the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you each of the eight counts
a fine of $250,000 for the aggregate fine of $2 million.
The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution
and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784
to American Airlines.
The Court imposes upon you the $800 special assessment.
The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because
the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need
go no further.
This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is a fair and just
sentence. It is a righteous sentence. Let me explain this to you.
We are not afraid of any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are
Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is all too much
war talk here. And I say that to everyone with the utmost respect.
Here in this court , where we deal with individuals as individuals, and care for
individuals as individuals, as human beings we reach out for justice, you
are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any
war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier gives
you far too much stature. Whether it is the officers of government who do
it or your attorney who does it, or that happens to be your view, you are a
terrorist.
And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not treat terrorists with respect.
We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one
and bring them to justice. So war talk is way out of line in this court. You are
a big fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I know warriors. You
are a terrorist. A species of criminal guilty of multiple attempted murders.
In a very real sense Trooper Santigo had it right when you first were taken off
that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and where the
TV crews were and he said you're no big deal. You're no big deal.
What your counsel, what your able counsel and what the equally able United
States attornies have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know
how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it
that led you here to this courtroom today? I have listened carefully to what
you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what
sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you
are guilty of doing.
And I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you. But as I search this
entire record it comes as close to understanding as I know. It seems to me
you hate the one thing that is most> precious. You hate our freedom.
Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to
come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually
choose.
Here, in this society, the very winds carry freedom. They carry it everywhere
from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much
that you are here in this beautiful courtroom. So that everyone can see,
truly see that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely.
It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your
behalf and have filed appeals, will go on in their representation of you
before other judges. We are about it. Because we all know that the
way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no
mistake though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden, pay any price,
to preserve our freedoms.
Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long
remember what you or I say here. Day after tomorrow it will be forgotten.
But this, however, will long endure. Here in this courtroom and courtrooms
all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice,
individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done.
The very President of the United States through his officers will have to
come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can
be judged, and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence
democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.
See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America.
That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands
for freedom. You know it always will.
Custody Officer. Stand Mr. Reid down. "
How much of this Judge's comments did you hear on our TV sets? .
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It was in the news, quite widely published. I even read a Danish translation of it :D
Sorry to burst yer bubble :D
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Only problem is now the tax payer's must pay for keeping this ******* alive for the rest of his life :mad:
They should use his bomb and blow the ******* up with it!
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Originally posted by Heater
Only problem is now the tax payer's must pay for keeping this ******* alive for the rest of his life :mad:
They should use his bomb and blow the ******* up with it!
I agree 100%
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Yup off the ficker.
Thanks for the Link. I had not seen it.
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No need to use his bomb. I have a nice length (approximately 15 feet) of heavy duty rope here and I have a big bellybutton Oak tree across the road from my house also with a nice open grassy area underneath it. In a few minutes we can be setup to publicly hang these bastards once convicted and their 1 appeal is heard on the following day.
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Excuse me but I were hearing hints of facism..
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Terrorist loving schmuck....
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Originally posted by Fishu
Excuse me but I were hearing hints of facism..
ahh.......could be.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Terrorist loving schmuck....
Hey, I have no sympathy for the terrorist, he tried to blow up a plane... he should be rather kicked down from a jet flying at 30,000ft than sentenced for life in prison.
It just scares me to read such words from a JUDGE, so close to the ones used by numerous facists in the past.
How can I anymore trust him being a reasonable judge, when he talks like a facist?
Practically theres nobody critisizing or questioning his speech, only cheering.
If the crowd is cheering such a speech without a doubt, what can you expect in the future... say 10-20 years from now?
It's scary, really.
You only have to look in the history, not more than roughly 60 to 80 years back.
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See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America.
That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands
for freedom. You know it always will.
Unbelievable and awesome. I have new faith in our government elected officials.
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Some interesting read on the facist/democracy issues I accidently stumbled on: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm
"fas-cism (fbsh'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."
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I stopped reading that trash at the hitler comparison ( in the very first intro paragraph) - go f*ck yourself Fishu...
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What luck for rulers that men do not think.
-- Adolf Hitler
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Hitler has nothing to do with a judge that is tired of pieces of shat trying to bomb, weaken, and bring fear through terror to America, period.
France and the Allies had put so much restriction and monitory grief on Germany, via the Versailles Treaty, Hitler telling them all to go fuct themselves was an easy, and certain way to rally a depressed nation to arms, and his rise to power. Period. Still...
You fuksticks using fascism in this case to make your political ideas a point, are retards. Sorry, the obvious is my strong point.
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The 70th anniversary wasn't noticed in the United States, and was barely reported in the corporate media. But the Germans remembered well that fateful day seventy years ago - February 27, 1933.
If its not absuloutely clear to you GScholz where this is going and what its reffering to then you are braindead....
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Well.. im not the one ultimately nationalist nor mocking (and even boycotting for it!!!) other countries for not joining my wars since they didnt find it necessary. :rolleyes:
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Hey you better shut the hell up Fishu or we will invade your country and put all of you in our slave labor camps... Consider yourself warned!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Hey you better shut the hell up Fishu or we will invade your country and put all of you in our slave labor camps... Consider yourself warned!
Be welcome, those russians in bottom of the lakes from half a century ago are indeed in need of a company.
but then again, people speaking the word of freedom and democracy won't be threatening others if they're worried, warning or disagreeing with their policy. :p
Freedom and democracy is my right as well.
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Fishu,
It is indeed your right as it should be.
However it is also my right to consider your comparison of the United States to a budding facist state as completely absurd.
Love for your country does not a facist make. Blind faith in a leader does.
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I donno fishu since you are sooooooo convinced that the USA is now a nazi state I thought I should only give you a fair warning.
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Originally posted by GrimCO
Fishu,
It is indeed your right as it should be.
However it is also my right to consider your comparison of the United States to a budding facist state as completely absurd.
Love for your country does not a facist make. Blind faith in a leader does.
I haven't yet said or actually compared US as a whole to a facist country, keep that in mind.
So far I've only talked about inviduals doings and shared some alternative views of.. again.. inviduals who seemingly are worried.
Blind faith is always bad, since it hinders the ones capability to see beyond, regardless of the faiths subject.
Grunherz,
I think I know better what I think of US than you do... don't you agree?
So, if you excuse me... stop putting the words in my mouth and get lost, since you're trying my patience, mr. righterous.
I really don't understand whats wrong with telling people to look at the direction where their world is going and see if its really the right direction also 20 years from now - also internationally, not just nationally.
Some shrinks would say its self denial to put up such an exagerated show against someone telling it, because of being afraid to look and consider the said issues with objectivity.
Obviously not many here has thought it objectively what I've said.. very obviously.
Why is that?
Afraid of looking at it with an objective mind, like the shrinks would say?
It's always easier to deny without an objective reply.
So.. hows it gonna be folks..
putting words in my mouth is easier path than being objective?
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Yeah,
Let's just get rid of all the laws and let everyone have a free-for-all, so no one can accuse us of being a Police State.
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Bull**** Fishu - look at your own whoopee posts look atht material you linked to - an article comparing the USA to nazi germany.
I am not putting anything anything in your mouth - there is no more space for you firmply plant your foot in every time you make these idiotic imbicilic hitler comparsions.
Once again I must warn you, further behavior of this sort will only result in a trip to the concentration camp for you.....
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Heil Grunherz :D
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Now thats the spirit! :)
But seriously Fishu no more Hitler comparsions please - surely you cannot be serious...
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Hey Grun,
We could have GWB dye his hair black, comb it to the side, and sprout a mini-mustache... LOL
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Now thats the spirit! :)
But seriously Fishu no more Hitler comparsions please - surely you cannot be serious...
Well honestly.. I am bit worried with this height of the nationalism and the loosening of international relationship since Bush Jr. got to the white house.
The Freedom is simply shouted too much with everything that it is getting hard to be believe it is the sole reason for the late happenings.
I'm more thinking whats 10-20 years from now than what it is at now, since no bigger political change in nation is seen in a couple of years, since it is a sum of smaller things over a time.
So.. what does worry me?
lets see a few things which aren't really good signs either, considering how fast those have happened...
A rather odd law was passed in a record time, certain things have been promoted constantly into the mind of people (like freedom, democracy.. so on) and things done under the shadow of these things, topics have changed from one to another quickly as if to keep people's attention to other issues, bush telling other countries / EU to do things while being uncooperative himself and even provoking to boycotting french with a clever manipulation in the use of media. (sure the media is free, but that doesnt mean you cannot cleverly use media as your manipulation tool... thats something which has been done for ages already and even stronger since Bush)
In the international politics, US has became a cowboy.
Something to worry as a foreigner? yes.
Nothing scares me more than ultra nationalism and signs of it.
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It's easy for someone in another country to think that the USA is a would be facist state. I mean, have you seen Finland get involved in world affairs? Look at the world critise us for not doing something for peace in the middle east. Why don't they step up and do something their selves? It's getting real easy to let the US doing everything for you. I mean, why use you tax money on a big problem like the middle east. Just let the US do it for you then throw knifes at us for triing something and not coming up with something yourseles. It would be nice to see a country like Finland step up and help out in the world. After all, they seem to have all the answers.
As far as the Judge's remakers, what did he say the makes him sound like a facist?
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I'm just chucklin' over the fact that a Fin sqwawks so loudly about Facism and Nationalism corcerning a country that has upheld the ideals of freedom and democracy better than any other nation in the history of mankind given the nature of political bedfellows Finland chose to bed down with in the last century and the apparent lack of embarrassment (more likely the evidence of the opposite - pride) that most Fins seem to feel over such.
Ahem ....
Carry on. ;)
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Fishu isn't actually from Finland, is he?
They are quite a progressive nation, experts on fascism. In fact, in 1945 the National dance-ban is lifted. It was illegal to dance during the wartime. Ooo, it's like a post wartime Schindler's List FlashDance now!
Give Fishu a break, he's just all "Macarena" happy. Sing!
Dale a tu cuerpo alegria Macarena
Que tu cuerpo es pa' darle alegria y cosa buena
Dale a tu cuerpo alegria, Macarena
Hey Macarena
Invaded by Soviet Armya, bow down till the germans take us overa,
hey Macarana
Allied bail usouta, they a fascistsa, im a tard es pa' la, hey Macarana
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They did what they had to do to survive.
As far as the USA becoming a fascist state, I don't think that is to likely. After all, our government changes every 4-8 years. The only thing that really stays constant is the which corporations purchased which politicians.
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Someones should ask themselves why they think so arrogantly of others, if they truly are the forerunners of freedom and democracy and not just someones riding the wave created by the others for them, which makes it easy for them to turn down unwelcomed views.
The ones without objectivity, arent the ones to speak for the freedom, since they aren't preceeding freedom.
Firbal,
'could' is a better word used in this than 'would', theres a big difference.
Obviously you don't either have any idea of the other countries wage on the freedom, democracy or peace, but yet keen to make claims.
Arlo,
"...corcerning a country that has upheld the ideals of freedom and democracy better than any other nation in the history of mankind..."
Are you sure?
Neither can the things change?
Urchin,
Finally objective words in this thread.
No flaming at all, being realistic and simply stating own views that keeps most realistic.
Creamo,
The dancing ban you're talking about, was very different from the one in nazi germany.
If you're going to use it as some stand point for your facism arguments, you should study it further, before making yourself laughable.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Well honestly.. I am bit worried with this height of the nationalism and the loosening of international relationship since Bush Jr. got to the white house.
The Freedom is simply shouted too much with everything that it is getting hard to be believe it is the sole reason for the late happenings.
I'm more thinking whats 10-20 years from now than what it is at now, since no bigger political change in nation is seen in a couple of years, since it is a sum of smaller things over a time.
So.. what does worry me?
lets see a few things which aren't really good signs either, considering how fast those have happened...
A rather odd law was passed in a record time, certain things have been promoted constantly into the mind of people (like freedom, democracy.. so on) and things done under the shadow of these things, topics have changed from one to another quickly as if to keep people's attention to other issues, bush telling other countries / EU to do things while being uncooperative himself and even provoking to boycotting french with a clever manipulation in the use of media. (sure the media is free, but that doesnt mean you cannot cleverly use media as your manipulation tool... thats something which has been done for ages already and even stronger since Bush)
In the international politics, US has became a cowboy.
Something to worry as a foreigner? yes.
Nothing scares me more than ultra nationalism and signs of it.
You're just used to 8 years of wimpy presidency. This is nothing new.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Someones should ask themselves why they think so arrogantly of others.
Yes ... someone should. ;)
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I think it is far better to be the Cowboy of international politics rather than the cattle of international politics. Feel free to continue mooing all you want fishu. :D
BTW it seems the east side of the Atlantic has far more problems with mad cow disease thant the west side does. Perhaps there is a reason for that........ :p
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Originally posted by Arlo
I'm just chucklin' over the fact that a Fin sqwawks so loudly about Facism and Nationalism corcerning a country that has upheld the ideals of freedom and democracy better than any other nation in the history of mankind ;)
So, we are to remain silent when it seems very much that we are becoming that which we have shed blood to eliminate?
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Fishu, I think the word would is the right word. I know Finland could contribute if it would be willing to add to world peace. Take the lead sometime. Then you can complain what the US does. As I said before, complaining about the US not doing something about the Middle East then complaining when the US does doesn't take much effert. Step up to the plate (a little baseaball lingo) and put yourselfs on the line for the world community and try your ideas and see if they work. I'd like to see someone else with some new ideas get involve instead of standing on the side lines. Get dirty.
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Originally posted by Arfann
So, we are to remain silent when it seems very much that we are becoming that which we have shed blood to eliminate?
You didn't understand a word, did ya? :D
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Firbal,
Do you know how arrogant and ignorant that sounds?
It really makes it sound like you think of US being far better than the other countries... which again is getting closely familiar to something we've been discussing here...
"...together with belligerent nationalism."
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Hmmm .... would challenging an overseas critic of American Foreign policy to become proactive by encouraging their own government to take an active role in the Middle East (thereby providing a supposedly better example) be more arrogant than a Finn choosing to be a passive critic by calling an American a Fascist? :D
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Originally posted by Arlo
You didn't understand a word, did ya? :D
And it's another scathing (though quite meaningless) Arlo retort. A complete disgrace to the name.
GronK
Why do P'lice guys,
Beat up peace guys?
Let's get Santa Claus, becaaauuuuse,
Santa's got a funny hat,
He's a terrorist.
Got long hair and a beard,
He's a pacifist.
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Well ... I know it hurt yer feelins and all but like I said ... obviously over your head. It's not about your right to protest, your opinion, your thoughts, your rage at the machine. It's about the irony of brick throwers who live in glass houses and how that doesn't stop them from throwing bricks and carrying on. It's about monkeys making noises and chunking feces all over the place then slicking back their hair and acting quite the injured party when a water hose is turned on `em. It's about kids who "know it all" sharing their ignorance for all to see and even when it becomes obvious how foolish it's starting to sound, cranking up the sub-woofer because that's the best way out of a corner.
But, yeah ... it's a free nation. And it's free entertainment. And since there's not all that much that's free in the land of the free anymore ... I'll take it. ;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
Well ... I know it hurt yer feelins and all but like I said ... obviously over your head. It's not about your right to protest, your opinion, your thoughts, your rage at the machine. It's about the irony of brick throwers who live in glass houses and how that doesn't stop them from throwing bricks and carrying on. It's about monkeys making noises and chunking feces all over the place then slicking back their hair and acting quite the injured party when a water hose is turned on `em. It's about kids who "know it all" sharing their ignorance for all to see and even when it becomes obvious how foolish it's starting to sound, cranking up the sub-woofer because that's the best way out of a corner.
But, yeah ... it's a free nation. And it's free entertainment. And since there's not all that much that's free in the land of the free anymore ... I'll take it. ;)
Monkeys? Is that you, Davey? This ain't about monkeys kids and brick throwers. This is about watching (up close and personal) 58,000 of my generation (Who?) lose their lives for nothing, zero, nada, and not enjoying seeing the present generation sent off on an equally meaningless witch hunt. Rage at the machine? Yes, if the other option is quiet desperation.
I don't want a pickle
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Originally posted by Arfann
Monkeys? Is that you, Davey? This ain't about monkeys kids and brick throwers. This is about watching (up close and personal) 58,000 of my generation (Who?) lose their lives for nothing, zero, nada, and not enjoying seeing the present generation sent off on an equally meaningless witch hunt. Rage at the machine? Yes, if the other option is quiet desperation.
I don't want a pickle
You need to relax and not read into things so much if you've got an agenda to uphold. ;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
You need to relax and not read into things so much if you've got an agenda to uphold. ;)
I just wanna ride my motor-sickle.
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There ya go ... ride around and sing some folk songs and maybe you'll feel better in general. :D
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Originally posted by Fishu
Firbal,
Do you know how arrogant and ignorant that sounds?
It really makes it sound like you think of US being far better than the other countries... which again is getting closely familiar to something we've been discussing here...
"...together with belligerent nationalism."
Sorry you think it sound arrogant. That's not where I'm come at it from. If you read what I was triing to say.
It's easy to be on the side line and take potshots at anyone who is triing their best to help or fix a problem. I remember hearing on the news,bb's and else where how the US wasn't doing anything for the middle east peace process since Pres. Bush came into office. But it's seems to be easyer to critize than be a postive force in the world. Not one Europen country stepped in. I thought that it might of been a good idea by Pres. Bush to have us step back and let the Arab countries and Iseral to slove their problems. Of course that didn't work. Europe is seems lately to be critizing the US for everything we try to do. Well then, come up Europe. Lets try some of your ideas. I heard plenty of how wrong we are on these BB's. Do something, don't just talk about. I for one as a taxpayer would like to see Europes taxpayer take on some of these responibles. After all, that's why the ECU was setup. We can use some help.
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Heheheh Firball, you need to swat up on some geography. While the US gets involved in the 'high profile' areas (read those that make CNN headlines) the rest of the world gets its 'hands dirty' on a regular basis.
Take NZ for example, we have peacekeepers all over, Afghanistan, Iraq, East Timor, Cambodia, we're about to send some to the Solomons, theres a huge list of stuff we're involved in and have been involved yet, yet we're only a nation of 3 million.
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Originally posted by Arlo
There ya go ... ride around and sing some folk songs and maybe you'll feel better in general. :D
And I don't want to die.
I just want to ride my motor cy - - -
- - - - -cle.
A quote I got on A&E from an elderly Austrian excusing away his countrymens' participation in the Holocaust:
"When you're surrounded by wolves, it's best to howl with the pack!"
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Hey ... if you want all the lyrics to all the songs you can get `em at Arlonet. ;)
But don't get yer panties in a wad and call Joe Patriot a Fascist when you're feelin' sorta Finnish. I figure, you being one of the neglected, rejected, spit on and dejected ones ... you'd think that was a bit overboard. But ya don't, apparently.
But hey ... it's an excuse to pop a top, I suppose.
Have a beer. :D
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Originally posted by Arlo
Hey ... if you want all the lyrics to all the songs you can get `em at Arlonet. ;)
But don't get yer panties in a wad and call Joe Patriot a Fascist when you're feelin' sorta Finnish. I figure, you being one of the neglected, rejected, spit on and dejected ones ... you'd think that was a bit overboard. But ya don't, apparently.
But hey ... it's an excuse to pop a top, I suppose.
Have a beer. :D
"Spit on" don't got a "ected" at the end. Some variation on "expectorated" may work, but it's beyond me. Man, writing peace songs gotta be hard.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Blind faith is always bad, since it hinders the ones capability to see beyond, regardless of the faiths subject.
[hijack mode on]
Hey Fishu, do you believe in any kind of God?
[/hijack mode]
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[resolves the hijack attempt with a .45]
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So I'll take that as a no, shall I?
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Fishu, I think you are a bit paranoid, ( we will assimilate you ) or maybe a little too obsessed with the USA.
Have a nice long sauna and you will feel better :p
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Originally posted by Arfann
"Spit on" don't got a "ected" at the end. Some variation on "expectorated" may work, but it's beyond me. Man, writing peace songs gotta be hard.
Edit it however you want as long as something gets through to you in the end. ;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
Edit it however you want as long as something gets through to you in the end. ;)
How very. . . . . errr. . . . . . ah. . . . . . .Freudian of you. Unless, of course, you mean the affect the chili cook-off in Pueblo on Saturday had on the old 'rhoids Sunday.
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Originally posted by mjolnir
So I'll take that as a no, shall I?
I only stopped the hijack attempt by eliminating the forum terrorist.
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Originally posted by Arfann
How very. . . . . errr. . . . . . ah. . . . . . .Freudian of you. Unless, of course, you mean the affect the chili cook-off in Pueblo on Saturday had on the old 'rhoids Sunday.
Way too much info there but ... glad you're relaxin' and enjoyin' life. ;)