Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: gofaster on June 30, 2003, 09:26:37 AM
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Someone on this BB had once suggested this film and it was raining all weekend so I had a chance to watch it.
Let me tell you, I was blown away by it.
The movie is told in flashback by a Czech pilot who goes to England to fly in the RAF after the Czech government capitulates to the Nazis without firing a shot. He is imprisoned by the Communists when he returns to his home country after the war. I won't go into details about characters or plot lines, but suffice to say that this is one of the few war movies where the love sub-plots actually work and work well. The decisions the main character makes really got me to thinking; how he reacts to the losses of his fellow Czech pilots, how he reacts to the women he loves, how he handles the political situations he finds himself caught in. Very well done.
Part of the film dialogue is in Czech and part in English. Subtitles are used throughout. Personally, I prefer subtitles instead of voice dubbing. Using the authentic language makes the film more believable. The worst thing they ever did to "Das Boot" was release the English-language dubbed version on video. :(
The flying sequences and combat sequences are exceptional. A couple of times, it looked like they were using live ammunition for the tracer effects. The aircraft destruction scenes were very realistic (unlike in most war movies, where airplanes blowing up and/or crashing look like the wooden models they are).
This film inspired me to get some stick time in a Spitfire V over the weekend and I'm having a blast in it. So a "thumbs up" to the film and a "thumbs up" to the Spitfire V.
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the flying was the only good part of this film
.. unless you are a "PH" movie type :)
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Originally posted by Eagler
the flying was the only good part of this film
Agreed.
Love story ruined a perfectly good war movie.
Why oh why do they always do that?
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I actually got a kick out of the love story for once. It certainly worked better than the love story subplot of "Battle of Britain" and "Midway". In "Dark Blue World" it helped underscore the tragedy of the whole situation.
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I do believe I was the one touting this film in the "Favorite war movies" thread.
The love story does nothing to take away from the film. It wasn't cheesy nor sappy and it wasn't super drama'd out.
It also made aspects of the fight scenes more interesting... especially in regards to friendly fire.
MiniD
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pass miniD a hankie - quick :)
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Originally posted by Mini D
I do believe I was the one touting this film in the "Favorite war movies" thread.
The love story does nothing to take away from the film. It wasn't cheesy nor sappy and it wasn't super drama'd out.
It also made aspects of the fight scenes more interesting... especially in regards to friendly fire.
MiniD
Ummm, actually it was my "Favorite Air Combat-themed Movies" thread.
My favorite part is when the women is talking about her husband being away in the Royal Navy on a Battleship and they show a picture of the battleship on her mantle...of an Iowa-class battleship :rolleyes:
But I really did enjoy this movie, thanks for the recom Mini D,
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The guy lost everything, even his dog.:(
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Originally posted by AKWeav
The guy lost everything, even his dog.:(
Well, no reason to see the movie now....
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They could have cut way down on the love story and focused on his arrest and life as a prisoner after the war.
The love story is crucial for the reasons MiniD states, but to say it wasn't sappy is a bit of a stretch.
Next time you see it let me know MiniD..you can borrow my hankie. ;)
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Sure... it's one of those sappy brief tragic romances I hear so much about curval.
MiniD
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It's a great movie. The stories of what happened after the war are pretty typical of what happened to Czech and Polish pilots and soldiers. For these guys the war wasn't over until 1990 or so. Also almost all of the flying events were things that really happened to Czech or Polish pilots, e.g. landing to pick up downed buddy and the botched raft delivery. Love stories can be annoying, but at least we got to see her ta-tas unlike that turd Pearl Harbor. :)
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Originally posted by funkedup
Love stories can be annoying, but at least we got to see her ta-tas unlike that turd Pearl Harbor. :)
And that's what set this film head and shoulders above the rest! ;)
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I could call it an exellent movie.
But the starting scene with evil Russians and good and nice SS doctor is a little bit too much.
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Regarding Das Boot being dubbed into english, there's something y'all should know: It was the original german actors who dubbed their lines in english. Pretty unusual, it's just not done.
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That`s true that the love story is not the strongest part of the movie. I should prefer the more detailed story of the pilots journey from the escape from occupied Czechoslovakia to the entering RAF in England. The time jumps in story could be quite confusing for someone who is not familiar with history of our pilots.
Anyway it`s a good movie for its flying part.
czpetr
249th sqdn RAF "Gold Coast" Tangmere Wing -HQ-
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C'mere Barche(pronounced Barcho I believe?)..:D I really enjoyed this movie for all of the reasons above even though there were some flaws.
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Misty tales and poems lost
All the bliss and beauty will be gone
Will my weary soul find release for a while
At the moment of death I will smile
It's the triumph of shame and disease
In the end Iliad
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Originally posted by AKWeav
The guy lost everything, even his dog.:(
Yeah that was pretty harsh. Even the dog rejected him when he came back.
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A lot of the aerial sequences are remastered outtakes from Battle of Britain.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
A lot of the aerial sequences are remastered outtakes from Battle of Britain.
Hmmm, the DVD touched a little on that.
I liked Dark Blue World, I thought it was an excellent film....
They should "spec ed" the BOB, I reckon they'd do a great job running that movie through the same processes as DBW.
Tronsky
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oh please boroda, please name one good thing communism has added to the human condition that works.
besides ideas that resources dont back up. communism is a failed system because people want to get ahead in life, not stay with those who dont. if i was high up in the commy party i would get those things, but im not high up in any party(political) so life for me is hand to mouth. please dont waste anybodys time suggestioning that things could be any different. its a joke, and im laughing.:D
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Don't disturb Boroda, in his dream state, Comrade Boroda is living the life of luxury under his failed belief that communism is good, and without it, the world would have self destructed long before.
I wonder if he really thinks he is a kommissar in good ole WW2, maybe he is like the guy from Enemy at the Gates, the one with the dark circles and puffy cheeks, who yelled no surrender, no retreat while his other wonderous commissars gunned down the retreating russian soldiers... yeah, that sounds like him, or wait, maybe he is Comrade Stalins bed pan envoy, and is able to suplement his rations at work.... hmmm...
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Bodhi(kharma?), you don't understand my point, as usually you, Westerners, do...
Just tell me - are you a big fan of nazism?...
do you really think that making an SS doctor a positive character is OK?...
I don't care about how they look at my compatriots, I know that my country have done many "not so good" things to Czechs, but praising military criminals is out of my understanding.
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I actually think Boroda has a valid point.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
A lot of the aerial sequences are remastered outtakes from Battle of Britain.
This is true, but if you watch the DVD extras you'll see that they did quite a lot of flying for the movie, including some really fabulous low level Spitfire stuff.
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Originally posted by Curval
I actually think Boroda has a valid point.
I interpreted the SS doctor as being a forced laborer himself, and sort of neutral about the whole thing. I would've preferred to see some remorse on his part, particularly during the scene where he describes how his job was to verify the deaths of prisoners during executions in Prague. Instead we get a sort of "Enemy Mine" in a medical ward where both sides of the conflict come to an understanding about their plights.
I also think that by making the doctor an SS man opened up the question of who was truly evil - the Nazi doctor who supervised executions of Czechs or the Communists who worked the Czech prisoners to death (which was something the Nazis did as well).
I think a scene showing the trial would've gone a bit farther in the characterization of the Czech government, but alas we are only left to wonder.
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Gofaster..I agree with what you are saying and it only adds to my point that the love story in the film got in the way of a good thought/emotion provoking movie.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Bodhi(kharma?), you don't understand my point, as usually you, Westerners, do...
Just tell me - are you a big fan of nazism?...
do you really think that making an SS doctor a positive character is OK?...
I don't care about how they look at my compatriots, I know that my country have done many "not so good" things to Czechs, but praising military criminals is out of my understanding.
1. Are you sure that the camp officials are Soviets? I thought they were Czech communists?
2. Not all SS men were criminals. Especially someone who was probably running a field hospital patching up the wounded, not actually fighting.
3. The German soldiers earlier in the film are depicted as arrogant and a bit rude at the airfield, and a bit stupid in the scene where the young pilot hides in the haystack.
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Originally posted by funkedup
This is true, but if you watch the DVD extras you'll see that they did quite a lot of flying for the movie, including some really fabulous low level Spitfire stuff.
Only some combat scenes were taken from unused Battle of Britain footage. The rest are mix of real and computer models but A LOT of flying scenes were made with two REAL Spitfires (one Mk.V and one Mk.IX from Duxford collection) :)
Originally posted by Boroda
do you really think that making an SS doctor a positive character is OK?...
What is so untruly positive on his character? Do you think that all SS men must be presented as bad characters despite what character they really had? Than you surely will agree that all communists must be presented bad as well.
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Boroda, not everybody joined the SS so they could kill little Russian babies or rape Russian maids...umm on the second one...I don't know :)
Anyways, the way I undertsnad it, the SS was considered somewhat of an elite corps and, especially before the atrocities commited by them became known (thus drawing the hate of the regular Wermacht), a lot of decent people joined.
However, I do agree that there were LOTS of murderers there. One of my teachers father was in the SS (Cavalry), and he once told us how his father's CO killed a Russian boy who was tending their horses because one of them got sick or something, I don't remember the exact story.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Bodhi(kharma?), you don't understand my point, as usually you, Westerners, do...
Just tell me - are you a big fan of nazism?...
do you really think that making an SS doctor a positive character is OK?...
I don't care about how they look at my compatriots, I know that my country have done many "not so good" things to Czechs, but praising military criminals is out of my understanding.
Boroda,
I understood your point just fine, what YOU fail to see is, like it has been pointed out by others, is that the Doctor, while in the SS, was in actuality a humanitarian caught up in the war. Whether he was in the SS uniform or not, he was still a doctor.
Am I a fan of naziism??? No, but neither am I a fan of Stalin, or Communism for that matter. I consider them both to be on the same level, actually the Stalinists and Commies are probably a bit worse. How many millions of people has your country killed for having the wrong ideals, skin color, or ethnic back ground. You can slice this loaf any way you want Boroda, but in the end, your country should be listed amongst the worst culprits of genocide and mass murder. The only reason you have not been ocupied and all been put on trial is that a major world war would erupt and kill billions.
I guess the rest of eastern europe too can tell some wonderous tales of your wonderous socialist ideals being impressed over their will... ever wonder why they were in such a hurry for autonomy? Christ first it was the Nazi Jack Boot, then it was the Communist left shoes... :rolleyes:
As usual, your comments are baseles and generally offensive, and it makes one wonder what type of education you received growing up? Uncle Stalin's best nursery rhymes? You make me sick Boroda, being so proud of being a commissar, how many people have you "reeducated" and / or had sent off for the work camps out east? Just remember, no matter what the government view on religion or theology is, there will be a day of reckoning that truly matters... hope you figure it out before then.
:(
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Am I a fan of naziism??? No, but neither am I a fan of Stalin, or Communism for that matter. I consider them both to be on the same level, actually the Stalinists and Commies are probably a bit worse. How many millions of people has your country killed for having the wrong ideals, skin color, or ethnic back ground. You can slice this loaf any way you want Boroda, but in the end, your country should be listed amongst the worst culprits of genocide and mass murder.
Commies worse then nazis?... Very sad. Usually I stop argueing with people who show such a high degree of ignorance and obviously suffered from heavy brainwashing, but some of your points are new for me and refreshing :mad:
The only reason you have not been ocupied and all been put on trial is that a major world war would erupt and kill billions.
It's beautiful. Brilliant. Your "land of free" showed such dedication and effort preparing for a nuclear war with my country, planning total destruction of Soviet major cities since 1947! So nice that international state terrorism that was, and still remains the main way of your foreign politics is excused by "fighting the evil commies". Millions of murdered Koreans, Vietnamese and other victims of your "crusade" must be happy you were saving them from "communism".
You know nothing about my country, you know nothing about Communism, and you still make conclusions about it, based on 50+ years of propaganda that inherited all the dr. Goebbels's lies. Very smart.
As usual, your comments are baseles and generally offensive, and it makes one wonder what type of education you received growing up? Uncle Stalin's best nursery rhymes?
As usual, your comments are baseless, agressive and stupid. What education did you get yourself? Church Sunday school? Lessons of hatered at the military camp? Go read some books.
You make me sick Boroda, being so proud of being a commissar, how many people have you "reeducated" and / or had sent off for the work camps out east?
If you have read my posts on this board, you had a chance to read my explainations about my status in my squad and wbfree.net project.
As every righteous American you still think that every Russian is a communist. Very smart. Who told you that? Your "free press" that still is in chains of corrupt ideology and political warfare?
I am proud of Commissars of 1941, who preferred to die by torture then to tear their Commissar's Red Stars from their sleeves. I am proud of my Grandfather who was a true Communist. But I am not a Communist myself, I'll never vote for our modern commies and I don't want to go back to Soviet times.
Just remember, no matter what the government view on religion or theology is, there will be a day of reckoning that truly matters... hope you figure it out before then.
You have to understand that Communism is only another religion. It's the easiest way for people like you to get it.
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Originally posted by funkedup
2. Not all SS men were criminals. Especially someone who was probably running a field hospital patching up the wounded, not actually fighting.
All SS men were criminals. SS was declared a criminal organisation by the Nuremberg International Court.
Noone forced them to join the NSDAP armed forces.
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Originally posted by Boroda
But the starting scene with evil Russians and good and nice SS doctor is a little bit too much.
The Russians WERE evil. :-)
Excellent movie in my opinion. VERY well done. But I agree, although the love scenes should have been left out of the movie, they didn't detract too much from the main theme.
Stalingrad was also a great movie if you liked Dark Blue World. Not much air combat, but a great look at the German soldier's perspective of the war.
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Originally posted by GrimCO
Stalingrad was also a great movie if you liked Dark Blue World. Not much air combat, but a great look at the German soldier's perspective of the war.
I really want to see the German "Stalingrad" movie. The Soviet-American "Stalingrad" made in late-80s was probably the worst of the Nikolay Ozerov's war movie :(
"Enemy at the gates" is a horrible mixture of lies :( Vasiliy Zaitsev wrote a book called "There's no land behind Volga for us". It dosn't have anything common with the movie. All the scenes with soldiers attacking with bare hands and "commissars" shooting them in the backs are figments of sick imagination... That bastards could live for no more then few seconds before they were lifted on bayonets if they behaved like that. Army "fence forces" (zagradotryad) were mostly catching deserters and, in fact, used as the last reserve on dangerous directions...
Intersting facts about that movie: the consultant for that movie had all his corrections ignored in favour of "popular history" hallucinations... That Veteran recieved $30 for his work. Thirty. Like Judas :mad: Certainly he refused to take it... Stalingrad Veterans organisation made a press release about "EATG". They said that it portrays Soviet soldiers as "brainless animals" and officers as "idiots and savages", and suggested to remove it from the theatres...
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Boroda,
I was talking about the "German" made movie Stalingrad.
You should find it and watch it. I thought it was very well done.
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Originally posted by Boroda
All the scenes with soldiers attacking with bare hands and "commissars" shooting them in the backs are figments of sick imagination... That bastards could live for no more then few seconds before they were lifted on bayonets if they behaved like that.
Anthony Beevor disagrees with you here Boroda. He wrote the book "Stalingrad" which was a best seller for non fiction history.
I'll dig it out and get you some sources.
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Originally posted by GrimCO
Boroda,
I was talking about the "German" made movie Stalingrad.
You should find it and watch it. I thought it was very well done.
is that the one where the German soldiers are speaking English with American accents?
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Originally posted by Sancho
is that the one where the German soldiers are speaking English with American accents?
Don't know because I didn't see it yet :)
Anyway I'll have to find an English version, I doubt that there is a decent Russian translation.
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http://216.198.255.120/russianpart/ruspenalbat.html
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"You better start cutting trees for coffins, penalty batallions go into the breakthrough"... (c) V. Vysotsky.
Penalty batallions were a "copy" of German invention. AFAIK almost any army has/had such structures...
The article contains several... hmmm... let me call it "mistakes", while we all know it's called "lies".
First, Soviet Army losses were between 8 and 13 millions according to different sources.
Second, attack through the minefield in fact makes losses smaller. Zhukov surprised Eisenhower by saying he ordered an attack through the minefield in Berlin operation because engineering troops removing the mines had to work under enemy fire and gave Germans time to react on the attack. War is a cruel thing... :(
Penal army is a myth.
Execution without trial applied only to maradeurs and criminals caught in the act in the military zone.
There was no "win or be killed" in penal batallions. They had to "wash away their guilt with blood". Usually they were sent to ordinary regiments after a first wound or a heroic act that was awarded with a medal.
"Popular history" sucks, especially when it's full of propaganda.
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Hey I'll keep settin'em up, you keep knockin'em down. :)
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Originally posted by funkedup
Hey I'll keep settin'em up, you keep knockin'em down. :)
:)
No need setting anything up, the Net is full of interesting fairy-tales about Russians :)
The worst thing about it is that they started teaching such "popular history" at schools here :( and commie-"patriots" make it even worse by using old naive propaganda cliches to "beat" it :(
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Man, we are WAYYYYY off thread now. Let's get back to the movie. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Man, we are WAYYYYY off thread now. Let's get back to the movie. :rolleyes:
Linda Rybova or Tara Fitzgerald?
There, now its back on track. ;)
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Originally posted by gofaster
Linda Rybova
SCHPROINNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
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I just happened to be walking thru the living room and saw some spits on TV. I stopped to check it out and it was Dark Blue World on HBO Signature. I caught the last 20 min or so. I GOTTA see the whole thing now, and it does'nt come back on until July 21st.:mad:
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Originally posted by rpm371
I just happened to be walking thru the living room and saw some spits on TV. I stopped to check it out and it was Dark Blue World on HBO Signature. I caught the last 20 min or so. I GOTTA see the whole thing now, and it does'nt come back on until July 21st.:mad:
WOW thanks for the headsup... Just checked the tv guide and its on in 15mins here on the Westcoast.
HBO signature channel btw.
"It's a great movie. The stories of what happened after the war are pretty typical of what happened to Czech and Polish pilots and soldiers. For these guys the war wasn't over until 1990 or so"
Hehe somone read the credits
The Movie was "ok" Can't belive they took from the same love story as "Peral Harbor".
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Originally posted by Boroda
All SS men were criminals. SS was declared a criminal organisation by the Nuremberg International Court.
Noone forced them to join the NSDAP armed forces.
Sorry Boroda but there is some ocurences were this sentence is wrong ,some Alsacian were forced to join the SS not the werhmacht.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Commies worse then nazis?... Very sad. Usually I stop argueing with people who show such a high degree of ignorance and obviously suffered from heavy brainwashing, but some of your points are new for me and refreshing.
Brain washing? Let me see here, your government killed and/or imprisoned MILLIONS of your own people after WW2 and during the Cold War for crimes as simple as not agreeing with Stalin, communist ideology, and just plain being different. Too top it off your country has spread weapons throughout the world to ensure the poison and corruption of communism continues to cause misery upon humans world wide. Ohh, and should we mention Chechnya? Thats another Russian graveyard that your government is perpetrating.
It's beautiful. Brilliant. Your "land of free" showed such dedication and effort preparing for a nuclear war with my country, planning total destruction of Soviet major cities since 1947! So nice that international state terrorism that was, and still remains the main way of your foreign politics is excused by "fighting the evil commies". Millions of murdered Koreans, Vietnamese and other victims of your "crusade" must be happy you were saving them from "communism".
Dedication and effort to protect our country against a possible attack from yours? That's wrong? You truly are as idiotic as you sound Boroda, your country's attempt at arming and maintaing it's army bankrupted it and starved millions of it's citizens. We were able, to not only defend our countryand project our forces to try and help against your world wide onslaught, but we did it why staying the best free market place worldwide. Still are for that matter. As for our involvement in Korea and VIetnam, gee Korea was a UN stand against a menace backed by your country, and Vietnam was not lost, we gave up from lack of public support, but atleast we tried to help the people there. But low and behold, guess who is again asking us for help.... the government of Vietnam, guess we really are horrible people. Name something that your country and communism has done that benefits the world...
You know nothing about my country, you know nothing about Communism, and you still make conclusions about it, based on 50+ years of propaganda that inherited all the dr. Goebbels's lies. Very smart.
I know enough about communism to know that it is a failure of a system. It does not work because it is so open to corruption, and is frought with a few "haves" and a whole bunch of "have nots" who toil to support the "haves" Sounds like a wonderous deal... WHy do you suppose the remaining communist nations are failing? Because it DOES NOT WORK! As for us being students of Goebbel? Boroda, that is so pathetic, have you ever read that man's work?
As usual, your comments are baseless, agressive and stupid. What education did you get yourself? Church Sunday school? Lessons of hatered at the military camp? Go read some books.
Boroda, I have a four year degree not to mention many further specialised trade certifications for my profession. Love to read too, just did not enjoy any of Marx's or Stalin's BS. When is the last time you read something about human rights and / or oppresive governments?
If you have read my posts on this board, you had a chance to read my explainations about my status in my squad and wbfree.net project.
Too even joke about it Boroda is sick... that in itself makes my skin cringe too think you would be proud of something like that.
As every righteous American you still think that every Russian is a communist. Very smart. Who told you that? Your "free press" that still is in chains of corrupt ideology and political warfare?
I do not think every Russian is a communist, as a matter of fact, I know, that MOST russians are not communists. Rather they are a people like me who seek to live happy and fulfilled lives. Yet unfortunately they still live in an oppressive society, and that is where my problem is with your country.
I am proud of Commissars of 1941, who preferred to die by torture then to tear their Commissar's Red Stars from their sleeves. I am proud of my Grandfather who was a true Communist. But I am not a Communist myself, I'll never vote for our modern commies and I don't want to go back to Soviet times.
You can be proud of something all you want, that does not make it right. Communism has no benefits for the world, you are exercising some good judgemnet in not wanting it back.
You have to understand that Communism is only another religion. It's the easiest way for people like you to get it.
Another religion? I repeat myself... It's a failed system that does nothing but oppress the masses to support the few in luxury. How thick is your head?????? Cripes, you go on and on about how great it is, then say you do not want to live under the ideals of it? You truly are delusional Boroda. Nationalistic pride is one thing, but plain stupidity is another. It seems very obvious what you are suffering from, I truly feel sorry for you. :(
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i find it amazing that some of you go to great lengths to justify "some SS" because they weren't all evil, yet all commies are the same bad guys.
Be consistent please. If you're going to generalize it has to be both ways.
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Sorry to jump in a "bit" late, but I'm not a regular reader of the AH forums :)
Originally posted by Boroda
I could call it an exellent movie.
But the starting scene with evil Russians and good and nice SS doctor is a little bit too much.
There was not a single Russian (not even an evil one) in the whole movie, as there was no reason for Russians to be there at all. Nor is a single word in Russian spoken in the movie. It is interesting to note that you have imagined an evil Russian being there, though - I wonder why?
The Movie was "ok" Can't belive they took from the same love story as "Peral Harbor".
The fact that Pearl Harbor and Dark Blue World came out together was a pure coincidence. Work on Dark Blue World started about 5 years before it came out, and writing of the script started even earlier, with no knowledge of Pearl Harbor whatsoever. So the (very remotely) similar love stories are a coincidence, too; you be the judge of which one is more believable :)