Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on July 02, 2003, 12:05:10 AM
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http://msn.espn.go.com/page2/s/list/alltimeoverrated.html
Where's Gale Sayers?
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Sandman, that seems like a COOL link, but it freezes my browser up and I can only see the top 2 guys on the list.
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ditto
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Boosted:
The List: Most overrated of all time
By Jeff Merron
Page 2 staff
Boy, this was a toughie. A couple of personal favorites are among the athletes listed here, and except for a few guys on the list, all were truly great. But what it came down to is this: They weren't as great as we'd like to remember, or as we wanted them to be.
1. Joe Namath
I'm a Joe Namath fan from way back, so it pains me to say this, but Namath was a great quarterback for only a few seasons. He's been properly credited for leading the Jets to a Super Bowl III win (and a few bonus points for being cool enough to know he didn't have to pass to beat the Colts). Namath was an icon, a product of his times, and he played the New York tune in perfect key, fur coat and all. But as a player ... there have been dozens of better QBs in modern times. Some surprisingly lousy career stats to consider: 173 TD passes, 220 INTs, completion percentage of 50.1.
2. Phil Rizzuto
Rizzuto was a fine shortstop who had one truly great season -- his MVP year of 1950. His admittance into the HOF in 1994, nearly 40 years after his playing career ended, was clearly a product of the New York media machine, Yankee aura and HOF voting politics.
3. Lynn Swann
Hmmm. In nine seasons, he was a Pro Bowler only three times. Averaged less than 40 catches per season. A couple of great playoff performances, but lots of so-so ones. In terms of career stats, you can't get more straightforward than the footballreference.com summary: "Lynn Swann is not in the all-time top 50 in any major category." So why is he in the Hall of Fame?
4. Jose Canseco
Wow. We knew Canseco was overrated, and he's especially unlikable these days, but just checking out his stats in an objective fashion, you'd be less than impressed. A .266 BA and just six 100+ RBI seasons in an offensive era, a so-so .353 OBP. Terrible in the postseason -- a .184 batting average and .398 slugging percentage when the stakes were highest.
5. Deion Sanders
Spectacular to watch in his prime, dominant on pass defense (although a notoriously weak tackler), but he asked for too much money, and undeservedly got it. ESPN the Mag's Tom Friend summed up Sanders' career well, calling Sanders the "Greatest selfish player of all-time, best-bandannaed player of all time, (who) killed wide receivers and salary caps." Oh, and he was a mediocre baseball player, despite the hype and two Sports Illustrated covers (only one less than Barry Bonds!).
6. Pete Maravich
Pistol Pete, perhaps the most spectacular college player ever, was a very good, but not great, NBA player. A marginal Hall of Famer if you look at his pro stats, and shouldn't have made the list of the NBA's top 50 players of all time.
7. Nolan Ryan
If you wanted to go see a game with lots of K's, lots of walks, and not much in-between, Ryan was your man. In his long career, he racked up some spectacular achievements -- for example, 5,714 strikeouts and seven no-hitters. Other spectacular marks included 2,795 walks and 292 career losses, which put him, with a 324-292 record, not far above .500.
Granted, he pitched most of his career for mediocre teams, but he never won the Cy Young Award (Steve Carlton, his contemporary and also a strikeout pitcher, won four Cy Youngs). A great hurler, but not, as many fans believe, the greatest in baseball history.
8. Pete Rose
He's got the most hits in baseball history, but that doesn't make him the greatest hitter in baseball history, as many casual fans believe. Rose kept himself in the game for five years after he should have retired, and he hurt the Reds as a player his last couple of years. Don't get me wrong: Rose was great, and he worked his tail off, but his his hits record is greatly overplayed. He didn't even come close to Ty Cobb at the plate:
Rose: BA: .303; OBP: .375; SLG: .409, career high of 82 RBI, 198 SB
Cobb: BA: .366; OBP: .433; SLG: .512, seven seasons of 100+ RBI, 892 SB
9. O.J. Simpson
Simpson had one incredible year, and two other great ones. But if you check out his career stats, what you'll find is five fine seasons and six so-so ones in which he gained less than 700 yards on the ground. Not much of a receiver, either -- in his 2000-yard season, Simpson caught a grand total of six passes.
10. Apolo Ohno
Ohno already deserves a spot in SI's "Where are they now?" issue. A couple of questions: Why was he an SI cover boy last year when he was in a minor sport that had only been in the Winter Games since 1992? We could think of a dozen winter Olympians more deserving of that slot. Anything intriguing about him? Nah ... he's no Barry Zito. As my esteemed colleague Jim Caple put it, "It was his name and Nike that got him cred, not talent."
Also receiving votes:
Sandy Koufax
Don Drysdale
Sonny Liston
George Mikan
Darryl Strawberry
Lenny Dykstra
Dominique Wilkins
Sugar Ray Leonard
Grant Fuhr
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Scottie Pippen
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LOL, I'll give you a good one:
Franco Harris
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Originally posted by NUKE
LOL, I'll give you a good one:
Franco Harris
Is he in the Hall of Fame?
NM... he is... http://www.profootballhof.com/players/mainpage.cfm?cont_id=100068
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Emmitt Smith
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Bill Walton
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Wayne Gretzky.
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Originally posted by Manedew
Bill Walton
Nope, he was great. Just injury prone.
Lynn Swan may have never had a huge year, but he could catch anything he could touch... amazing body control.
Nolan Ryan??????? Paleeez!
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LeBron James
$90 million from Nike and the kid hasn't even set foot on a NBA court yet
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Wayne Gretzky.
Are you on crack?!?!
Look at the record books. He may be the greatest pro athlete of all time...
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only person i have heard of on that top 10 list is O.J. Simpson!
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Originally posted by Eagler
LeBron James
$90 million from Nike and the kid hasn't even set foot on a NBA court yet
Agree with Eagler
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Originally posted by funkedup
Emmitt Smith
Hey now, I'll take exception to this one. Smith holds a number of records in the NFL, some of them earned behind a good line, some of them behind one of the worst offensive lines in pro football. His longevity in the sport is sufficient to make him noteworthy as an athlete.
My nominations for most overrated not already on ESPN's list:
Dale Earnhardt - only won a handful of NASCAR Winston Cup races, yet had legions of fans after his death. Why? Because he painted his car black and pushed people around.
Danny Weurfel - Heisman Trophy winner, set passing records in college, hasn't done much in the pros.
Rashaan Salaam - #1 pick by Chicago in 1995, he held out for big money. Played 4 years and spent his last one in the XFL.
Anna Kournikova - the Minnesota Vikings have played in more championship games than her.
Keyshawn Johnson - has talent, but not enough to live up to his rep. I'll give him credit, though - he can take a hit and since he came to Tampa he's cooled his tongue-wagging for the better.
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The most overrated atheletes of all time?
Basketball players...period.
(Right MT?);)
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1. Joe Namath
I agree.
2. Phil Rizzuto
Don't know anything about him.
3. Lynn Swann
Disagree. Any dip in stats came from the fact that Bradshaw was quarterback (Let's swap those two names). Anyone that watched Pittsburg in the playoffs know what kind of receiver Lynn Swann was. Of course, he sucks as an anylist.
4. Jose Canseco
Disagree to a point. His first two years in the limelight were deserved. The rest was a media that didn't know when to quit. Jose did pioneer the "batspeed" aproach to hitting. Basically... the big bat era had come to an end.
5. Deion Sanders
Hmmm... seems this was based on a "I just didn't like him" preference more than anything.
Deion was the best punt/kickoff returner of all time. He was also one of the best coverage corners of all time and definately had the quickest break to the ball I've ever seen. He sucked at actually tackling, but it seldomely came to that when he played corner.
He might have been talked too much trash and been over payed... but he was the best... and that does not qualify as over rated.
6. Pete Maravich
Hmm... only heard him refered to as one of the best passers of all time. I'll challenge anyone to come up with someone better.
7. Nolan Ryan
So over rated that every a single team in the league during his entire career would have loved having him on it. Not enough credit given to being consistantly good over a long period of time. Getting a no hitter in his final year was simply icing on the cake.
Nolan ruled.
8. Pete Rose
"Jonny Hustle". Not "Jonny Hitter" or "Jonny base stealer". He was renowned for being one of the hardest workers in the league. There are things other than stats to consider when talking about someone's greatness... seems this author thinks otherwise.
BTW... anyone notice he compared his stats to Ty Cobb rather than some other proclaimed "greatest hitter" ;)
9. O.J. Simpson
Bah... seems this guy resorted to picking the "least popular" over rated players. How can you go wrong dissing OJ and Pete these days?
O.J. was a great runningback. I don't know anyone that says he was the best (or said).
10. Apolo Ohno
Over rated? I didn't even know he was rated. Another "Love to hate him" kind of selection.
MiniD
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NASCAR bores me to tears, but #3 was the real deal. He won 76 races and 7 titles.
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Anna Kournikova - the Minnesota Vikings have played in more championship games than her.
Ummm... that should be "won more championship games than her". I do agree, except that the word was "over rated".... Anna has never really been rated. Over hyped (over exposed) might be more aplicable.
MiniD
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Minnesota is 0 for 4.
Anna is 0 for 1*
*=actually, Anna won 2 doubles championships with Martina Hingis, before Hingis broke up the partnership for greener pastures. The only time she's made it to the finals was the Kremlin Cup.
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Originally posted by funkedup
NASCAR bores me to tears, but #3 was the real deal. He won 76 races and 7 titles.
Oops, you're right. I may have been thinking about the number of times he won the Daytona 500 (1 victory).
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DOH! I must have been thinking about an NFC championship game from the last 4 years. Maybe last year? Both teams were winless in the superbowl and sure to wipe out the sucky Raiders.
Basically... got them confused with Tampa Bay
MiniD
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seems some of you are basing your decisions only on "stats", there is more to the game than "stats".
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Originally posted by Curval
The most overrated atheletes of all time?
Basketball players...period.
(Right MT?);)
mmmmust swimm away!!!!!
aaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhccckkk.
All sissy pants soccer players should be on the list.
And anyone intelligent enough to decifer the rules to Cricket can't be much of an athlete.
now get this hook out!
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Tiger Woods ... OVERRATED
If he were a white guy, he'd be another face in the PGA crowd.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Tiger Woods ... OVERRATED
If he were a white guy, he'd be another face in the PGA crowd.
I remember colon montgomery saying something very similar just prior to the final round of Tiger's first Masters tournament.
MiniD
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Originally posted by rpm371
Tiger Woods ... OVERRATED
If he were a white guy, he'd be another face in the PGA crowd.
Yeah just like any other white guy with ..what is it ten majors
yet?
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Tiger Woods *IS* white!
-SW
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"Where's Gale Sayers?"
In the Hall of Fame and deservedly so.
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Joe Namath came into the pro level already injured badly enough to have his career shortened, or ended completely. He proceeded to lead a second rate team in a second rate conference to dethrone the top team in professional football. While his stats are not up to the level of say, Marino, he uh, did win a superbowl. Stats are not everything.
Next that loser who wrote that for a loser network will be adding Dandy Don Merideth to the list.
What is really overrated is ESPN and their stupid arrogant reporters and writers.
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As a two-sport athlete, Deion Sanders was totally overrated. As a football player, he was great. As a baseball player, he was average. To put it in perspective, compare him to another two-sport athlete: Bo Jackson. Jackson kicked bellybutton in football and was a much better baseball player than Deion ever was. So, as a two-sporter, Deion is over-hyped. However, as a football player, I won't say anything bad about him (though I don't like him, he was a great cover corner).
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Originally posted by Manedew
Bill Walton
Ditto.
SOB
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My money says anyone claiming Bill Walton is over rated didn't watch him play pre 1977.
It was painfull to watch him after that... and he surely is the suckiest game announcer I've ever heard... but before he hurt his ankle and his knee... he was incredible.
MiniD
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To be honest, I simply don't like him and the only playing I've seen of him is from highlight reels of the Blazers' championship season. His commentating sucks, and so does he.
SOB
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Bill Walton is a big time pole smoker. I really don't like watching him. I truly feel that his speaking actually leaches brain power from anyone within earshot.
Oh, and Yoko Ohno was only overrated as a singer. As a harpy, she was actually underappreciated. She did break up the Beatles afterall.
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The only way that Dion Sanders wasnt one of the top corners and punt returners in history is if you compare his abilities to his opinion of himself. He definalty is a hall of fame player. But he would have himself there alone. Teams just totlay avoided his side of the field. I saw it again and again and again. It was his normal game. Then someone would forget and throw his way and they would be chaseing him to the end zone. Same with kicks. The casters would actually critisise the kicker for kicking to Dion. And he would make them play.
No player I can think of is so dominant in either or both of those postitions. I dont know anything about baseball. But that guy could play football.
The most over rated sport figure in history is not a player but a coach. A football coach from Miami. Followed shortly by one from Seattle.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Joe Namath came into the pro level already injured badly enough to have his career shortened, or ended completely. He proceeded to lead a second rate team in a second rate conference to dethrone the top team in professional football. While his stats are not up to the level of say, Marino, he uh, did win a superbowl. Stats are not everything.
Next that loser who wrote that for a loser network will be adding Dandy Don Merideth to the list.
What is really overrated is ESPN and their stupid arrogant reporters and writers.
Dingdingding we have a winner :)
culero (megaditto!)
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Originally posted by Mathman
Bill Walton is a big time pole smoker. I really don't like watching him. I truly feel that his speaking actually leaches brain power from anyone within earshot.
Oh, and Yoko Ohno was only overrated as a singer. As a harpy, she was actually underappreciated. She did break up the Beatles afterall.
See he understands, this is basicly why I nominated him ... Tho his playing I've seen isn't great.
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A healthy Bill Walton was the greatest center ever... just a hair better than Wilt.
My cod people ... 21 out of 22 from the field in an NCAA championship game... before the dunk was legal!
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Its easy to forget his early accomplishments MT... he's pretty much an idiot these days.
But damn... he could play. Don't know if I've seen a big man that could move as well as him since.
MiniD
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Originally posted by gofaster
Oops, you're right. I may have been thinking about the number of times he won the Daytona 500 (1 victory).
If NASCAR bores you to tears I can't imagine what F1 does to you. In NASCAR wins do not dictate a championship consistency does. Dale raced in 675 races and had 281 top 5 finishes. That is a top 5 finish in every 3 races, the measure of consistency. Yeah, he had only 1 Daytona 500 win but came in second numerous times or was leading only to have something go wrong as in the 1990 Daytona 500. He was the real deal and took the torch from Richard Petty and took NASCAR to where it is now. Overrated? Hardly.
BTW, I do watch F1 when I can catch it and I consider Michael Schumacher probably the greatest driver ever. But then there's the World Rally Championship that consists of drivers that can really set a car up for a turn. to those guys.