Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Erlkonig on July 02, 2003, 01:55:36 PM
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Check out the raw irony of the photo (http://www.msnbc.com/news/933766.asp?0cv=CA01) positioning Bush in front of what appears to be Teddy Rosevelt leading on horseback. Expect to see this (http://graphics.theonion.com/pics_3911/bush_bravely_leads.jpg) anytime soon? Not ****ing likely!
WASHINGTON, July 2 — Saying U.S. troops were capable of responding to ambush attacks in Iraq, President Bush maintained Wednesday such violence would not undercut his resolve to keep Americans there until stability was restored. “My answer is: Bring them on,” he said of the hit-and-run attackers.
WTF is he thinking? This isn't some kind of smack talking college football rivalry, Americans are dying out there. Somebody needs to personally tell this clown to STFU already.
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what is he suppose to say?
"keep your heads down guys, they'll stop shooting at you soon" :rolleyes:
he said what the soldiers want/need to hear from their commander, not what the limp wristed media/liberal types wanted him to say
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As if TR was president when he was in battle...
Chimpy pulled alert duty in F-102's as part of NORAD during the height of the Cold War. If nookyuler had started, he would have been in the thick of it.
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the saddamites are now killing iraqis who are trying to get water and elect working again, but saddamites killing iraqis is nothing new , been going on for 25 years.
the US is sending 500,000 tons of food to feed the iraqis, distributed by USAID ( a NGO)
bectell corp is sub-contracting iraq companys to do the rebuilding.
evil americans.
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Right-o Eagler. I'm sure the troops just love getting blown up by car bombs and shot in the back by snipers, and gladly await any further escalation of violence, especially when goaded on by the biggest REMF of them all.
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HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA funked. Of course! He entered the National Guard to participate in the eventual nookyolar war resulting from rising US-Soviet tensions built up during the Vietnam War. And his disputed AWOL period was in actuality secret duty as a CIA U2 pilot. Great parody! Worthy of The Onion!
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Whatever Erl. What part of "alert duty" do you not understand? The ANG units were part of NORAD, ready to fight 24/7/365. Airplanes armed and fueled, pilots ready to go. The Soviet bomber threat to the CONUS was real. The USSR had thousands of aircrew and hundreds of airplanes dedicated to that mission. Your comments denigrate the sacrifice of all the Cold Warriors who kept the free world safe for the last 50 years.
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the soviets would never had invaded or attacked us soil. their economy was dead by 1972. but we couldnt have known that because we were using ex nazi cia agents that wanted to keep their jobs and so they hyped up the idea that the ussr was actively seeking war. if their was a war bombers wouldnt have been used icbms were the weopon of choice.and after the 1st day their wouldnt have been a usa or ussr left, or human speices for that matter.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Whatever Erl. What part of "alert duty" do you not understand? The ANG units were part of NORAD, ready to fight 24/7/365. Airplanes armed and fueled, pilots ready to go. The Soviet bomber threat to the CONUS was real. The USSR had thousands of aircrew and hundreds of airplanes dedicated to that mission. Your comments denigrate the sacrifice of all the Cold Warriors who kept the free world safe for the last 50 years.
wow.
Your way too smart to believe that.
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Please refute any part of it Pongo. I thought you were smart enough to know the history of ANG F-102 units in NORAD.
To this day the Russian air force trains and runs exercises for the mission of nuclear bombing against the US. Yes it's bloody unlikely, but nonetheless the USSR/Russian air force have maintained readiness for this mission for 50 years.
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Interesting. This 'alert duty' allows you to leave without so much as a goodbye?
BTW, I'm not saying Bush went AWOL - his leaving may have been perfectly legitimate - but I really have to doubt the 'bigging up' of his role. The idea that he was a linch-pin of North American air defence and that he was free to leave at any time don't really go together.
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Thats called rallying speech and make the enemy forces more prone for mistakes, trying to prove theyre being annoyance against US forces.
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Oooh nice turn by Dowding, who tries to spin this into a defense of Bush's entire military career. I'm not sure what the hell happened to him after he went to Alabama. But during the portion of his service in Texas there is ample evidence that he did more than his share of alert and training duty.
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My whole point in this thread is this: Expecting GW to go into battle like TR is ridiculous. TR did not fight while he was president. Neither will GW. When TR and GW were both young men, they served in defense of their country. Obviously TR's service was much more gallant and notable, but GW did serve with a unit that would have been in the thick of it if the "big one" had started. Furthermore ANG units (including GW's) fought in Vietnam, so ANG service hardly offered him immunity from the possibility of combat.
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Back to the topic...I'm curious to hear what Erl thinks he should have said. After all, I'm sure Erl's infinitely more qualified to be the president and could do a much better job than Bush. And why in god's name would the leader of our nation lead our troops on the front line?
SOB
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Oh come on SOB, don't you know that leading a cavalry charge is a requirement to be commander-in-chief of the most powerful military in history?
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I'm not trying to spin anything, funked. I've watched the 'debate' about Bush's military service with apathy but arrived at the conclusion that by leaving the way he did, no rules were broken given the nature of the duty he had undertaken. Hence why I am puzzled that his role should be held up to be so critical - like I said one doesn't sit easily with the other.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Thats called rallying speech and make the enemy forces more prone for mistakes, trying to prove theyre being annoyance against US forces.
Fishu gets it.
The enemy only reveal themselves when they attack.
The more they attack, the more of them our forces can kill.
The sooner all of these idiots are dead, the sooner we will have peace in Iraq.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I am puzzled that his role should be held up to be so critical
Air defense of North America is something that was taken very seriously back then. You are young and not American, so maybe you don't understand. Study the history of the Cold War and NORAD to see how seriously it was taken by our military leaders.
(I'm serious)
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You misunderstand. I am not questioning the strategic importance of Soviet bomber interdiction - I am questioning the importance of a man's role in that strategy if he can leave his post at will without any kind of notice. It doesn't add up.
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TR did not lead a cavalry charge in cuba, the "rough riders' had no horses, when they boarded ships in tampa,fla , there was no room on the ships for the horses so they were left in Fla.
the rough riders fought as infantry at san juan hill along with the 10th black cavalry (also dismounted) and another army unit.
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Originally posted by Dowding
You misunderstand. I am not questioning the strategic importance of Soviet bomber interdiction - I am questioning the importance of a man's role in that strategy if he can leave his post at will without any kind of notice. It doesn't add up.
Obviously they had people to replace him.
Also IIRC his unit in TX (140-something FIW) was the one doing training and alerts, and he had a good record there. It was when he was later transferred to a couple of units in Alabama (where he was not assigned an active flying role) that there is some mystery about his participation.
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TR was the closet thing we had to a real cowboy president and he was from new york.
the biggest thing bush has done that bothers me is the fact that he is the first president to put on a military uniform while in office for the purpose of a press shot. he violated a big taboo when it comes to democracys.
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Aaah, I see. So when he left he wasn't part on active flying duty.
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SOB, that's a pretty obvious and handsomehunk question to ask, even for a troll.
funked, tell me who is defending the chest-beating comments of a man all too willing to use American troops as live bait for Iraqi guerillas in his effort to show what a tough guy he is, then explain to me who is denigrating the service of those in our armed forces. That's not my idea of "supporting the troops."
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Erlkonig, I wonder how fat-prettythang Teddy Kennedy would have answered that question?
I'll answer that. He would have given a long drawn out stuttering Porky Pig dissertation that goes in circles and doesn't actually convey anything. I think if you photoshopped a picture of Teddy in an honorable soldier's uniform humping a rifle in the desert sand it would be a lot more hilarious and unlikley. Talk about juxtaposition...
Same goes for Clinton, Gore, and Weazel's prima donna, Senator Kerry.
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
funked, tell me who is defending the chest-beating comments of a man all too willing to use American troops as live bait for Iraqi guerillas in his effort to show what a tough guy he is, then explain to me who is denigrating the service of those in our armed forces. That's not my idea of "supporting the troops."
Read what I said above. Their job is to kill Saddamites. They can't kill Saddamites unless the Saddamites attack. So why not tell the Saddamites to bring it on? I'm sorry if his military leadership style is not PC enough for you.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Aaah, I see. So when he left he wasn't part on active flying duty.
Yes AFAIK that was the situation. I haven't looked at this stuff for a while though, not since Weazel left us. :)
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Originally posted by funkedup
As if TR was president when he was in battle...
Chimpy pulled alert duty in F-102's as part of NORAD during the height of the Cold War. If nookyuler had started, he would have been in the thick of it.
Was this the same time his buddies were going to downtown Hanoi in Thuds?
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Actually nobody was going downtown in Thuds after 1968. :)
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I'm actually fairly ambivalent about Chimpy these days, not even sure I would vote for him next time. But you guys are so easy I can't resist. :)
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
SOB, that's a pretty obvious and handsomehunk question to ask, even for a troll.
That's hillarious, did YOU just call ME a troll? You insinuated that the president should be leading the charge like good 'ole teddy. Well explain why, handsomehunk.
SOB
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LBJ and MacNamara did not like bombing hanoi, they thought it would upset the north vietnamese.
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When Rolling Thunder started in 1965, they should have either flattened every military or logistical target entire country or just pulled out completely. Instead they just *****footed around and got a lot of people killed. But that's another thread entirely.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Actually nobody was going downtown in Thuds after 1968. :)
mmm ok replace Rolling Thunder with Linebacker....:)
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Originally posted by SOB
That's hillarious, did YOU just call ME a troll? You insinuated that the president should be leading the charge like good 'ole teddy. Well explain why, handsomehunk.
SOB
no
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No Thuds in Linebacker. :D
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Im with President Bush on this. Plus, Im still pumped that the most worthless human being scumbag noodlespewing potatomongering piece of shyte...er I mean William Jefferson Clinton, is no longer President.
You go Bush baby! yeah!
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
no
Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. All talk and no game.
SOB
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Originally posted by funkedup
Read what I said above. Their job is to kill Saddamites. They can't kill Saddamites unless the Saddamites attack. So why not tell the Saddamites to bring it on? I'm sorry if his military leadership style is not PC enough for you.
WTF, you actually believe this? This isn't a game, and it's not over when X number of body bags are filled by dead Iraqis. Not to mention the less than sterling record the whole "war of attrition" thing has. But you knew that already.
Bush invited attacks on American troops (I guess that makes him objectively anti-American), and you are convinced that this is in their best interests? That's some ****ed up priorities. Could you tell that to the families who get a coffin, and lose a father, brother, son, daughter, or mother out of this war?
Anyway, I'm gonna go pray that we're visited by a million attempts at 9/11 scale terrorist attacks, so we can catch all the terrorists in the world. (100000xrolleyes here)
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
WTF, you actually believe this? This isn't a game, and it's not over when X number of body bags are filled by dead Iraqis. Not to mention the less than sterling record the whole "war of attrition" thing has. But you knew that already.
Bush invited attacks on American troops (I guess that makes him objectively anti-American), and you are convinced that this is in their best interests? That's some ****ed up priorities. Could you tell that to the families who get a coffin, and lose a father, brother, son, daughter, or mother out of this war?
Anyway, I'm gonna go pray that we're visited by a million attempts at 9/11 scale terrorist attacks, so we can catch all the terrorists in the world. (100000xrolleyes here)
I'm sure there's a million Iraqis out there now saying "well, Bush told us to, lets go do it!" Seriously, I think you're one of the least educated people on this BBS. Well, except for Crumb, but he can't help it.:)
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
Bush invited attacks on American troops
american troops are not hiding behind sandbags waiting to be attacked, they are out hunting the saddamites
Anyway, I'm gonna go pray that we're visited by a million attempts at 9/11 scale terrorist attacks, so we can catch all the terrorists in the world. (100000xrolleyes here)
spoken like a true neo-liberal.
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Great job, john09201! You managed to spend half your post saying something that:
1) you haven't already said at least 5 dozen times, and
2) has even remotely to do with the topic.
Too bad it's irrelevant - of course combat elements aren't digging trench systems and hunkering down, but our armed forces (especially the Army) have a large logistical base in theater consisting of troops whose primary duties are not combat related. Even the "Saddamites" (who likely consist of more than simply Saddam loyalists) have enough sense to strike where the opponent is weak.
Martlette, that's some fantastic news! :D Things could be far worse for me - I could be you. And I wouldn't wish that on anyone...
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Bully Bully!!
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
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Martlette, that's some fantastic news! :D Things could be far worse for me - I could be you. And I wouldn't wish that on anyone...
I'm glad you know so well what it's like to be me. Let me ask you, what is your combat experience, that allows you to speak for the troops there now?
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Originally posted by funkedup
No Thuds in Linebacker. :D
No - they were mostly B52's with Wild Weasels in support - the point you're frantically trying to avoid is that Bush avoided service in the conflict, went awol for 6 months from the National Guard yet now is bellicose in his utterings whilst others actually have to do the fighting - something that he as a young man whilst serving his country was very careful to avoid - a pretty nauseating performance.
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Why would anyone join the army if they didn't want to go 'in harms way'? Besides, I bet killing an Iraqi would be fun. Probably like shooting a lion or a bear.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
No - they were mostly B52's with Wild Weasels in support - the point you're frantically trying to avoid is that Bush avoided service in the conflict, went awol for 6 months from the National Guard yet now is bellicose in his utterings whilst others actually have to do the fighting - something that he as a young man whilst serving his country was very careful to avoid - a pretty nauseating performance.
Many people end their service with the National Guard by just not showing up anymore, it's pretty common . It's not a crime, and I don't think it is even considered AWOL . The National Guard is very different from active duty that way .
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Originally posted by davidpt40
Why would anyone join the army if they didn't want to go 'in harms way'? Besides, I bet killing an Iraqi would be fun. Probably like shooting a lion or a bear.
Another Charles Whitman in the making - either that or a very, very stupid troll.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Another Charles Whitman in the making - either that or a very, very stupid troll.
Or an Army Ranger in the making, it's something they would say, and it's not bravado, they mean it . Not unlike your UK soldiers, playing soccer with Iraqi heads and such . Before you flame me I'm not trying to justify it . Just pointing out that the public has allways been baby feed the idea from media and hollywood that most soldiers are contemplative and idealistic in regard to
warfare and killing as if they were part of the "civilized" populace, it is good that the warrior class in reality is not .
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Originally posted by Suave
Or an Army Ranger in the making, it's something they would say, and it's not bravado, they mean it . Not unlike your UK soldiers, playing soccer with Iraqi heads and such . Before you flame me I'm not trying to justify it . Just pointing out that the public has allways been baby feed the idea from media and hollywood that most soldiers are contemplative and idealistic in regard to
warfare and killing as if they were part of the "civilized" populace, it is good that the warrior class in reality is not .
Another fat little civilian without a clue...
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A Fat happy civilian I now am yes, if I happen to be a light infantry veteran, which one of us is the clueless insolent one ?
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Absolute bull**** Suave. Wasn't Davidpt40 insulting vietnam vets recently? Excellent material for a Ranger!
I was watching a program about the RAF pilots during the war - the camera crew was allowed to film what they liked (compared to the embedded 'live' reporters), because it was not for immediate broadcast. The program is just being aired now. They weren't too keen on killing anyone and much preferred to drop their bombs on targets where very few Iraqis would be present.
Perhaps they were just a bunch of poofs, or perhaps they weren't BBS blowhards... they take their actions, and the consequences of those actions, very seriously.
UK troops playing heads with Iraqi heads?
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I knew what he said would rouse the pulpit pounders . But what he said is just like something the leg infantry, rangers or UK soldiers I'd been around would say . I don't think any of them were very keen on killing "skinnies" or "ragheads" as they called them, either, unless they were enemy soldiers . And yes some of the things they are proud of doing would horrify most normalized folk . ie. drinking beer from human skulls, playing soccer with a head, bringing back trophy pics of themselves with MRE spoons and dead, or berets with bullet holes in them to be placed in the battalion trophy case . To give you a little insight into that community, Alpa company 2/75 called themselves the War Pigs. The would get a pigs head from a butcher shop and nail it over the orderly room entrance, after a few weeks when it got too rotten, they would replace it. It's irrational behavior IMO and I think some of it is bravado and tradition . Again I'm not trying to justify it, that's just the way it is, but you can keep on flaming me if you want .
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Originally posted by TW9
Erlkonig created this thread and added 6 more posts and still hasnt made a point or reason behind it..
On the tv yesterday I saw probably no less than 7 American talking heads saying that what Bush said was... awful. Shows there's at least some other people that think there's a point to what Erlkonig's sayin'.
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Picturing the Riddler on the old Batman series saying.. "Bring it on Batman!" just before pushing his goons into the fight.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Please refute any part of it Pongo. I thought you were smart enough to know the history of ANG F-102 units in NORAD.
To this day the Russian air force trains and runs exercises for the mission of nuclear bombing against the US. Yes it's bloody unlikely, but nonetheless the USSR/Russian air force have maintained readiness for this mission for 50 years.
Im smart enough to know that if bear bombers were crawling towards the US over canada at 25mph on a one way 20 hour flight that the safest place to be on the continent is in an F102.
Portraying his service as heroic is just silly.
George Bush says to an 8 year old muslim girl with an AK47. Bring it on..and you cheer.
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Back to the orignal post:
Thats almost as good as Clinton faking a tear on the Omaha beach! ;)
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the real question is why did he not fly anymore ( desert)
they ( the airforce) started cocain testing. he never flew another day never went to the phisical.
man i hate rich cokeheads. and deserters.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
TR was the closet thing we had to a real cowboy president and he was from new york.
the biggest thing bush has done that bothers me is the fact that he is the first president to put on a military uniform while in office for the purpose of a press shot. he violated a big taboo when it comes to democracys.
Frog, what uniform?
you mean the nomex jump suit, what do you want him to wear while sitting on an ejection seat, and wearing a chute, gym shorts and a golf shirt. What is the big deal he was in the Air Force and is the Commander in Chief.
Please tell us what really bothers you as this is really lame. The press and other (read Senators and Congressmen) VIP's are given similar type of wear when visiting a Navy ship, how do you feel about this?
What was the insignia of the "uniform" what was the rank? ahh none? wow guess then it was not a uniform but just a proper protective garment to wear. A jumpsuite is not a uniform without the proper insignia. When I was in the Air Force I was a Firefighter and my turnout gear was not my uniform just a good idea when fighting fires.
Ever wear a ball cap for a team you never played for? How about when some wears a jersey for a NFL team that they don't play for does that really bother you also.
hmmm
Looking for that picture of Klinton when he was aboard the CV wearing the leather flight jacket and cap, anyone, anyone, Ferris, anyone
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Originally posted by Pongo
Portraying his service as heroic is just silly.
Nice spin. I didn't say anything about heroism, just that he did his part.
George Bush says to an 8 year old muslim girl with an AK47. Bring it on..and you cheer.
Now who's being silly? Ridiculous statement Pongo.
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Originally posted by Pongo
George Bush says to an 8 year old muslim girl with an AK47. Bring it on..and you cheer. [/B]
What would you say to an 8 year old girl with an empty AK-47 that just killed your brother??
It takes 7 to 8 pounds of pressure to pull a trigger thats all, and dead is dead or is it ok to be killed by an 8 year old? how about 12. would you say its ok to shoot back if they are, oh say 16?
What if it was your son? come on be honest just this once.... for me.
:rolleyes: