Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hazed- on July 02, 2003, 05:09:35 PM
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I wonder if HTC would consider something.
Would they consider making it so anyone on a 2 week trial is banned from flying the top 4 most used aircraft?
Now before you fly off the handle saying the newbies need the top 4 planes and other crap like that consider this
1.The arenas have filled up with too many of the same types of planes lately and someone has to give ground concerning it or AH will loose more customers.Subscribers have PAID for the privelige of flying whilst 2 week triallers pay nothing.
2. when i(and id guess most people) was new to this game it was longer than 2 weeks before i learned which planes were good for what and i enjoyed AH no less and eventually subscribed.If at the beginning some were unavailable I wouldnt have demanded i fly it, Id have just flown something else.
2. I would hazard a guess 80% of people joining have never heard of any but the most famous aircraft like b17s spitfires p51s P47s 109s etc and wouldnt know a D model from an E or A etc they would probably certainly never heard of LA7s or N1Ks which are 2 major culprits at the moment for over use.
3. When we play a game and certain elements are unavailable we do not stop playing the game.Generally we want to play so that we CAN earn a right to fly them.Its part of the point of games.rewards etc for playing the game well and winning.
4. if all the 2 weekers in an arena of say 500 adds up to 50 or more (wouldnt you say? I have no idea how many are in an arena at any one time but its probably pretty high) thats 50 Less people flying the top 4 overused planes.That will surely make some difference.
5. If you are a subscriber it wont effect you so really theres no reason to complain.If you are on a 2 week trial and you dont agree then what gives you the right to demand free use of all planes? there really isnt a reason other than new players need to fly the easier to use aircraft. Well this is where I have to point something out. IF people use niks spits P51d's or La7s all the time they are using the most poular planes in the game. It therefore will be YOUR fault that these planes are banned from use for a 2 weeker. If we all use a more diverse choice in what we fly we can eventually get the likes of LA7s or N1ks off the top 4 to be replaced by others so if you REALLY want to help the poor newbies you can STOP FLYING the easy rides all the time.If you arent prepared to do that, then claiming newbies need these planes is horsesh8t :)
6. Most aircraft in the game that are likely to be effected, ie P51D,109G10,LA7,N1K2 and SPITIX, all have a scond or even 3rd model of their type. we have the spit5 if the spit9 gets in the top 4, we have the 109g6/2 if the 109g10 is on it, we have the P51B if the P51D is on the top 4. LA5s instead of La7s.Only the n1k2 or P38 have no other versions and i doubt the p38 will ever be in the top 4 most commonly used aircraft.(Hell i know for one thing i'd like to play in an arena where P38s got the most popular!!!)
Ok thats all im gonna say, theres a hundred other reasons I cold think of but the most compelling for me is the fact Im paying for a game where im getting sick of seeing the same fighters over and over.The guys on 2 weeks free trials arent paying and so at the moment are not contributing to the game in terms of money yet they can still can fly those very aircraft we all seem to be sick of fighting.
IF there is a lot of 2 weekers online at any one time this idea will work. If the number is very low then its not worth it but who knows? HTC? is this a viable idea?
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I understand your idea, sounds ok. I will venture to say that you will get told that. Most newbies no matter what they fly aren't going to be a factor in the top 4. Even if there in the best plane. if they don't have a grip on the proper way to fly it, they probably aren't going to make any impact other than being another kill for a more seasoned flyer. Why not just tweak the modeling on those planes to make them less the uber plane that they are. This is a game and i know these planes don't perform exactly like the real thing did. I don't remember the LA7 being nearly this good in AW. Hec I rearly remember anyone even flying it. To me they just need to model it alittle different so there not the super planes everyone uses. Seems like a simple solution to the problem. But I'm sure there are those that would debate it. Which is fine. This is just my opinion.
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Limiting choices in the name of diversity isn't the answer.
Seriously, is it really that bad that a lot like to fly the Spitfire or La7? If the popularity of the Spitfire and La7 and other planes bothers you to the point that you want to limit what others can fly, take a step back and take a break.
Ack-Ack
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I'm going to do it. I'm going to say the dreaded P word. If you want to limit newbies from using those planes, throw a tiny perk cost on them (I'm talking something like 2 or 3 points). Just enough so that if they catch a clue at all, they'll be able to use them by the end of their two week trial, but they won't start off in them. Hell, if they're a little competent, they can probably crash one or two in their two weeks and be one their way to earning another. At 2 points, none of the "vets" of the MA are going to mind the cost of a pony or La7. At least they'd still be cheaper than a C-hog.
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Whiner
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gotta agree that limiting choices is not a good answer. the real answer will take a lot more effort.
An area carved out of the large maps that is for early war only will more than double the variety and add parity while restricting choice the least amount. seperate resets... same arena.
lazs
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ack ack , I havent got to the point where i get angry about the amount of la7s i see but i have logged off many times because ive flown into fights and had la7 after la7 dive in on me.I love to furball and usually i get quite a few kills but what happens is no matter how well you do eventually the sheer number of la7s means escaping the engagements becomes almost impossible.It gets boring and forces me to play in a very 'ready to run' style.It gets old and im bored with it.when i get lucky enough to find a fight with a rare type its a real boost for me.Suddenly AH is fun again.
With the present arena its the same thing over and over. I think the MA has actually become a completely different place lately because of the massed ranks of niks and la7s and spits etc.I used to like fighting them because whatever else, it was a different challenge to fight hordes of la7s.Its just that im getting bored with them.I've learned how to fight them and i know how to pull tricks to avoid them BUT thats only if im not being chased by several dozen at a time! :).
I dont want them removed id just like to see some other planes flying around so i can have some different types of fights.I dont agree with restricting use of any aircraft on the grounds that someone doesnt like it, but i think if the arena is getting to the point where it stagnates into samey gameplay its a good thing and a refreshing change when HTC does something to change the arena around.
When HTC perked the f4Uc AH immediately changed.For months it was a great new learning experience.Now the La7 Spit9 n1k2 seem to me to be around just that bit too much.HTC could step in and shuffle the arena around by either perking or using my idea (if the numbers make it viable). The arena would perhaps be filled with more F6F's,F4uD's,190s and P47s as these aircraft are chosen by the newbies.Is this so bad? they are all great aircraft and AS good as the La7s and N1k2's but only if the enviroment they fight in is suited to them. If you throw a newbie in an arena full of expert la7s in an la7 he will die fast and often. If you put that same newbie in the arena in an F6F but he has to fight a different style due to the arena now being populated by a slightly more diverse adversaries like f6f's 205s and 109g6's, he will die fast :D but he will at least get to see what it takes to fly the f6f vs something other than the LA7s etc, perhaps it will be a horde of 205's and spit5's he meets, sure he'll die but at least he gets to see how some of these aircraft fight.
I cant see where this is restricting someone when they are playing for FREE. Most online games let you fly only 1 or 2 types until you subscribe or have severe time restrictions. They need to offer more planes and longer time like AH does but when or IF these new players start to effect the atmosphere of an arena you need to step in i think. Personally I think its time to do so but im not sure if the newbies are around in enough numbers to make this worth while.Perhaps it isnt the newbie trial guys using the la7s?
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Originally posted by lazs2
gotta agree that limiting choices is not a good answer. the real answer will take a lot more effort.
An area carved out of the large maps that is for early war only will more than double the variety and add parity while restricting choice the least amount. seperate resets... same arena.
lazs
Laz you gotta get into map making or at least draw out your ideas for HTC to make them.HT did in fact ask people to submit ideas, I think they have shown they are willing to accept player maps openly.
I have had some rows with you inthe past but i have recently started to actually listen to what you suggest and i find im beginning to agree or at least like some of your ideas.
I really like your split era arena idea but it needs a map to show how it could work,
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hazed.... think how much grief you would have saved yourself if you had merely said in the beggining..... "lazs said it so even tho it doesn't sound right to me I will eventually agree so I think I will just agree right now."
alternately... think what a wonderful place the world would be if everyone did one simple thing every morning... If everyone just started the day saying (and really thinking it) "what can I do to make lazs's life better today?"
I can't make anything on a puter but geeze... how tough a concept is carving out the bottom 1/3 of the huge maps and ringing that with a 40k mountain range and 2-3 sectors of no mans land?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
gotta agree that limiting choices is not a good answer. the real answer will take a lot more effort.
An area carved out of the large maps that is for early war only will more than double the variety and add parity while restricting choice the least amount. seperate resets... same arena.
lazs
How difficult is it to go to DA if you just want to furball ONLY? That`s what it is for. Take the "sister" squad with you and have a ball. Or you could do what the true furballer does and furball in the MA without all the whining. Plenty enough of everything for everybody.
Your always posting that the only reason someone participates in strat or anything other than your definition of the furballl is to get attention. For the life of me I can`t figure out why you would want to play the way you play in the MA unless it`s for attention. The MA is set up for complete gameplay, DA for duels , furballs ONLY, etc. Your old"over and over" again whines are realy stale bud.
Get used to the big maps, they are there to stay.
Get used to MA gameplay , it`s there to stay.
You try hide behind the "furballer" label. What you do is far from what the furballer does in the MA. Swapping kills with some suckers don`t feed the bulldog Humpy.
Play the game , quit whining, and get real.
Have a nice day.
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Sharky looks right, looks left, crouches getting ready to run............RPS --------------> zoom
Sharky
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90421
Double-Thread!
Give two-weekers all rides for free except 262s.
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Limitations and restrictions can sometimes actually achieve the totality of freedom itself, for the common good.
Laissez-faire maybe the most hyped economical theory of the ages, but at least it doesn't work in AH. The "controlled economy" initiated by HT to perk the C-hog, has led to reasonable increase in diversity and fun levels at the same time.
It's not always the individual who has the problem. Convincing a person to change the way he feels about the problems of a given environment, will always be a temporary solution.
You can tell one guy to lighten up, don't take things seriously, enjoy it as a game, it doesn't matter if there are only few planes used(as long as I'm shooting them down) and etc etc.. But there's always bound to be someone else who comes around to express discontent about things.
Why? Because, problems persist until they are solved.
Telling the individual to close his eyes on the problems of the given environment - that's the real "cop out". It's not like we're living the real world here. If we are unable, and are to be discouraged to request a change in a mere game[/I] into something closer to the idealis, then by Sweat Jesious, that's depressing.
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When HTC perked the f4Uc AH immediately changed.For months it was a great new learning experience.
Now the La7 Spit9 n1k2 seem to me to be around just that bit too much.HTC could step in and shuffle the arena around by either perking or using my idea (if the numbers make it viable).
The arena would perhaps be filled with more F6F's,F4uD's,190s and P47s as these aircraft are chosen by the newbies.Is this so bad?
Nope, it's not a bad thing at all.
From what I've analyzed, the emphasis on the "big four" is a natural thing. The overused king of the hill has been overthrown, and now those who thrived under its shadow finally shows its face. Spare the eloquency and simply put, the planes that had always had a potential of overuse, but was unnoticed due to the Chog scourge, is now being recognized.
Well actually, "was being" recognized in about the one year period after the Chog was perked. In Tour 29 the current tendencies of plane usage have first shown its face, and currently the "new adaptation phase" is complete. (There's more on this analysis - tracking down usage levels and interpreting what they mean in AH - in the link posted in my sig.)
Some say pointing out this problem is a bad thing. They say the whining about the next best planes will always go on.
Not only is that totally untrue, but it's also misleading. I believe there's a specific point where usage levels can be called "various" - for me, that is 2~3% in claimed kills for each plane.
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sorry hazed , this is whine thread
u just show what HTC should not do it
if u not need peoples fly they like and push all newbies with poor skills in to secound or 3rd line aircraft soon we will have here same numbers of players on arena like in WB
Newbie have only chance to kill somone in furball flying high performance aircraftf with plenty of bullets.
When they familiarise with one plane, can go on secound level and learn others.
Id like to see experimet, 2 main arenas one with RPS /but planes not limited to war sides like on warbirds/ and secound with current we have. Just for one month to see how many players will play RPS. I bet peoples chose current system we have
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well it seems people dont want them perked
they dont want 2 weekers to be made to fly other types
they dont want strat flyers
they dont want bombers to have an impact
they dont want to have to fly more than a sector
Im asking for HTC to try to encourage a more diverse range of aircraft in order for me, the customer, to have a more diverse range of battles.Apparently there are those that agree and those that dont.Those that agree are generally willing to try anything to give us some more rare types flying around from perking the top four to unperking the tempest,ta152s etc , ANYTHING ! just please do something. The ones that dont agree are unwilling to accept other customers are not 100% happy, the constantly refuse to give an inch even when like this idea it doesnt even affect them.All those that so far have said they dont like the idea are subscribers yet they still act as though they wont be able to fly them and so AH will be ruined. yeah just like it was ruined when we perked the f4Uc.It astounds me how they refuse to believe its possible to get bored with fighting endless hordes of spits niks and la7s.personally i cant understand how after all this time with the arena like it is they havent got bored.
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Originally posted by ramzey
Newbie have only chance to kill somone in furball flying high performance aircraftf with plenty of bullets.
When they familiarise with one plane, can go on secound level and learn others.
Id like to see experimet, 2 main arenas one with RPS /but planes not limited to war sides like on warbirds/ and secound with current we have. Just for one month to see how many players will play RPS. I bet peoples chose current system we have
for one thing this arguement is flawed. If the arena wasnt full of LA7s and niks and spit9's they wouldnt NEED to fly late war aircraft.If the arena had more 'second line' planes up the newbies would have more chance to live while flying the mid war planes.
As for your experiment with RPS Id agree most wont use it.People stick with the MA because its already full of people.Often they dont try other arenas because 10 or 20 is too few for them.If however the main arena is down for some reason and everyone goes to the CT most people begin to really enjoy it.
I havent asked for a huge thing here.Like i said once we have less of the top 4 around the dynamics of the arena change.It might be for the better or it might be worse, we'll never know unless things are tried
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notice one thing
when newbie enter MA, he can try every plane but after couple deads he need soething what can balance his low skills.
Most knowed and first newbie question is "what is fastest fighter?" So, if u disable top 4 planes whats next on the line?
109g10 with mk108, La5, Fw190D.
If u disable /perk/ next month top 4 planes again not much left.
And this is going to nowhere
imo everything what u complain about is team work, flying alone just have no sesse. "Voulch or be vulched" this is MA motto and allways was. Strategic aspect on MA just not exist due players chose, not by HTC foult. Did u care how many your country have? im not. Only only thing about all players care is radar.
I see only one thing whichone can change it. Other score system
NOw we have only statystic and ranks. And we need real scoring system. Who depends not form how many kills u got per hour or % of hits. Anyway i not understand current rank system and looks like not much peoples understand them too.
If we have score system who promote pilots flying crapiest planes we can have more diferent planes flying around. Beucose flying late war planes can give u more points only when u perform really good
ramzey
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I'd do it the other way around.
Instead of locking planes away from newbies, I'd give em all the planes for free, including the perk ones. I have no problem at all with a total newbie flying around in an LA7, a Tempest or even a 262, all they're gonna do is spray and pray at D2.0 and then auger........let em get on with it I say. It'll be a laugh. After two weeks they're back in the same boat as the rest of us, paying for stuff.
Then I'd mildly perk all the high end stuff. Just 5 pts or so: LA7s, Spit IXs, N1Ks, 190D9s & P51Ds.
Totally different arena.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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why somone who not pay for game should have better then we have?
I just cancel my account and will go to fly on trials only to enjoy spit 14 rides
how u deal with that? it will be better for HTC?;)
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"Banning" some feature of the game, for any part of the player base, I think is a step in the wrong direction-- especially when the player is new and is there to find out if he likes the game.
I've been following these various threads about aircraft overuse and proposed solutions and one odd thing I've noticed is that some people confuse "perking" a plane with removing it from play.
Perking a plane does not remove it; it simply forces people to make a choice when they want to fly- are they going to risk losing perk points to use this particular plane? Many people say "no" and so the overall usage for that a/c goes down.
I don't think an arena so dominated by 4 planes is what HTC had in mind when the gave us so many aircraft types to fly with, but they already have a system in place that can solve the problem. That they do nothing is an indication to me they don't see a problem. I've never even heard Pyro comment on the situation on the BB?
So far perk costs have been significant for each perked plane. We have yet to see what a cheap (2-3 pts) perk plane's usage would be. I think it'd be a great experiment to try with the perk system. After all, HTC said they intended to try different things with it when they implemented it. So far they have done very little experimenting.
Some people claim there are only 50 or so pilots who think the "big 4" are a problem in the arena. I suspect its a lot more than that, and I wish HTC would put in an online survey question along the lines of "Would you be a favor of a small perk cost on the Spit IX, LA-7, P-51D, and N1K2 as an experiment to promote arena aircraft diversity?" That way they could hear from every flyer in the game, not just those who are active on the BB.
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Hazed, the Spit IX is not a late war aircraft.
You have, however, been trying to find a way to pull people out of Spits and into LW machines for all the time I've been here.
Isn't it time you gave up?
You had your chance to make a significant contribution to AH's development, and blew it. If you had any shame you'd shut up now.
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kwea has it... there needs to be some structure other than a free for all if you want to have any variety at all... given the free for all you will always have a very few choices.
The trick is to get the variet and, more importantly, parity with the least restrictions possible. Area arena is the fairest... closer fields is the eaisiest.
jakal... you are a hypocrite and (aparently) an idiot. it is you who is swapping deaths.... my K/D is mediocre but it is better than yours... It appears that you are doing what you accuse me of doing... you are simply swapping your death for some goal or another. It also apears that you are doing it badly. Those things must be taken into consideration when we listen to your drivel.
lazs
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Oh... area arena puts planes with like performance in competion without the burden of uber planes bothering them.. that promotes the use of many heretofor unused planes.... parity... variety..
closer fields allows areas within the arena but they are vertical. the slower early planes will be lower and the later ones higher... Alt is the equalizer. There will be some interaction but not so much that everyone can't find what they want.
lazs
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Nice idea, Hazed
every shareware has its limitations. So, why not the 2week trialers? And as long as the newbies only can do HO, they dont need any top-plane.
Some other guys too.
Ecke
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Originally posted by mjolnir
I'm going to do it. I'm going to say the dreaded P word. If you want to limit newbies from using those planes, throw a tiny perk cost on them (I'm talking something like 2 or 3 points). Just enough so that if they catch a clue at all, they'll be able to use them by the end of their two week trial, but they won't start off in them. Hell, if they're a little competent, they can probably crash one or two in their two weeks and be one their way to earning another. At 2 points, none of the "vets" of the MA are going to mind the cost of a pony or La7. At least they'd still be cheaper than a C-hog.
i love the way you call la7 flyers "vets"...
only reason they fly the spit is because its the only plane theyve heard of at that point (maybe p51 to but that isnt as easy to fly)
how do you propose they get these points??? at that point they cant fly ANYTHING other than the spit (im assuming the original post is referring to the real newbies not the ones coming over from a diff. game)...hell it took my my first 2 weeks to get good enough just to FLY the blasted things...another month to get my first kill and another 5 months to get past the 5 kill point...(granted i fly with the mouse so it changes things a bit)
im not even sure what the problem with these planes is...they fly what they want...you fly what you want...and for the most part you shoot them down...as far as im concerned those "top 4" planes are some of the worst planes in the game...
of course this has no bearing on the game since i dont have a subscription...just another pointless rant designed to up my post count about to be shot to peices :p
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If they enabled only the early war fighters - A6M2, P-40B, Spit I, Hurri I, Me109E, F4F-4 at the vehicle bases in the central ring of the Trinity map, would that basically be a form of the "area" arena that Laz would like to try?
Might also be another interesting experiment...
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La7 wouldnt such an uber plane if it ripped in 500 mph dive like it ought to.
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Originally posted by Seeker
Hazed, the Spit IX is not a late war aircraft.
You have, however, been trying to find a way to pull people out of Spits and into LW machines for all the time I've been here.
Isn't it time you gave up?
You had your chance to make a significant contribution to AH's development, and blew it. If you had any shame you'd shut up now.
seeker i find your attitude and delusional ideas on what im trying to do offensive.
As for me 'Blowing it' you have no idea of the reasons behind me stopping being a CM. I have been through more in the last 3 years than you have let me assure you. Due to my health im stuck indoors a damn sight more than Id like to be. AH is a godsend for getting rid of boredom.I do not only fly one type of aircraft , check my stats. I do not belong to a LW squad and if you asked my squadies theyd tell you the same.. I DO LIKE TO FLY LW and i use them in missions but i also use every other type so how you suddenly decide im on some campaign to lure unsuspecting newbies to the dark side of the LW I think is hilarious and obsurd.My assumption is that you live in a f&*king dream world.I play AH, I like it, but unfortunately Im bored with certain aspects which ive tried to explain above.Seems to me only you have attacked me personally for it, others have merely debated the proposal, and i think you should appologise but i suspect you wont.Perhaps i didnt put my veiws down as eloquently as oboe has (just above a few replys) but i am entitled to speak my mind.I am not being rude and demanding change. I am merely trying to think of ways HTC could tackle what i see as a problem.Perhaps HTC doesnt see it the same way, unfortunately i have no idea.
I dont need you jumping on my back thinking the kind of nonsense that you do and where do you get off trying to control what i do on the BB's? I think your new CM status has gone to your head seeker.Youre merely one of many CMs that have come and gone for many different reasons.Im not about to discuss my reasons on here. Youre not the internet police no matter how 'big' you think you are.Why dont you mind YOUR own business?
oboe you said all I could say in your last reply concerning perks and other ideas and made me realise your right about what you said of HTC, it is entirely possible they dont see it as a problem. I'll leave this thread here as seeker has managed to leave a rather sour taste in my mouth. shame theres not a face for 'pissed off' eh?
P.s. seeker if there was such a thing as an official complaint that i could make to HTC I would make it, you just jumped in with size 9 boots and you know nothing about me and you have offended me whether you realise it or not.Im also very suprised by it.I have never been anything but friendly to you in the past so where did this crap come from?
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oh seeker and im aware the spit IX is not late war. Im british for gods sake :)
It was merely an example that is reflected by todays arena. If you read the thread it ays top 4 each tour.This refers to the fact THEY WILL CHANGE each tour or so.not least because newbies would be flying other types and so would affect usage numbers.Use your brain and fair reasoning and think out the idea.Read OBOES post above if you have something against me which makes you want to disagree.The idea isnt to capture newbies for 'medical experiments at hazed castle' lol
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Or try swapping countries...? Some people always complain of seeing Spitfires etc., yet the most popular plane I see are P51s, La7s, 190s & 109s.
Bish have a lot of RAF squads so the enemy will see a lot of RAF aircraft. Rook (or is it Knights?) have a lot of Luftwaffe aircraft so Bish see a lot of 109s and 190s. Might be worth a try...?
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Originally posted by Replicant
Or try swapping countries...? Some people always complain of seeing Spitfires etc., yet the most popular plane I see are P51s, La7s, 190s & 109s.
Bish have a lot of RAF squads so the enemy will see a lot of RAF aircraft. Rook (or is it Knights?) have a lot of Luftwaffe aircraft so Bish see a lot of 109s and 190s. Might be worth a try...?
you know thats actually a sound idea and its something i hadnt considered which could well solve the problem. I'll at least give it a try.
so...rooks or bish?
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as i thought seeker. guess you arent too bothered who you piss off eh? not very good behaviour for someone who supposedly represents HTC as a CM.
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If new guys can't fly the easy planes, then who should? Vets? We're the last ones to need a crutch. On the other hand, I can see where there should be some privilege for being a paying member. The downside is that I'm not sure how it could be implemented within the game.
Last night Spitfires were the bane of my existence. 90% of the planes that popped me last night were Spitfires- IX, V, and Seafire. The other 10% were LA-7s. Then again, I flew the F4U-1 and Ki-61 for most of the night. :p
Its already too easy to smack down the 2-weekers. Let'em keep their crutches so at least I'll have some good fights and maybe - MAYBE - the new guys won't school like baitfish on base attack missions.