Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pongo on July 03, 2003, 10:19:10 PM
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Well after a nice 9 month experiment in "realistic" bombing the game play of bombing in AH has been destroyed. Most people dont really ever use the sight. Most formations of bombers are destroyed on the deck. Any bombing other then a cake walk kind of mission where you have fields arround the enemy strat is a waste of time. You will be chased down like dog meat by suicide interceptors. Since field attack from alt is nearly imposible in a contested area. And strat targets are only really viable in milk run mode. Why bother with the bombers?
I propose that the formation bombers with thier wimpy guns and crazy bomb sight be deligated to formation use only. If you want to take off a single bomber and fly it in the old way with the pickle barrel sight then that should be in the game too. As it is bombers are useless to most people and in most circumstances.
I do enjoy the calibration..it just doenst work in the arena. And the formation guns are worse then the old single guns.
I would say that the bomber rehash just didnt work.
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So we go back to the ol' 25k single lanc pin-point destroying all three hangars on a small field?
I agree with many of your points, but the problem is not with the site. The introduction of the norden-style is a step in the right direction(although might need some refining..), and we cannot just step backwards.
The problem is while the effectivity of the bombers have changed, the territorial combat aspect remained constant. The zone concept in large maps did bring some interesting changes in strategical aspect, but the importance (and abundance) of strat targets are still way too low. The tactical sense of the MA has also remained still.
Bombers are weapons that force high levels of attrition - unless an attrition aspect starts influencing the lands of AH in a profound way(and a way that doesn't totally kill gameplay..), ultimately bombers will remain pathetic, whatever changes in themselves we advocate.
The bombers stepped forward, but the MA refuses to follow. I think we should try pushing the MA forward, instead of dragging the bombers back.
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I see a lot more bomber formations RTB in the CT, usually landing a kill or two also .
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Actually if you recall, the period that bombers were most rarely used was after the introduction of the new field capture system . When the new bomber formation system was introduced we began to see more bombers again .
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Imo, the game was more fun with the old bomb sights. To equalize bomber formation longevity, with the calibrated sight, the bombers really need AI gunners, i.e. a full gunner crew.
Flying, calibrating, bombing, and keeping an eye out for opponents is too much for one player to handle effectively. Having a gunner aboard doesn't help much, imo.
So keep the calibrated sights, and make it so the formations require multiple fighters working together to bring them down. The formations could use their AI gunnery similar to the way field ack is at bases. Right now, as it stands, bomber flying is the only elite aspect of the game. It should be so anyone can take up a formation of bombers and have a chance at hitting a target.
Les
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Keep the "Norden" if you up a formation......
Give us the "Old" site back for solo buffs.
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I think what Pongo suggests is a fair(ish) compromise. Even now I just take a single buff up most of the time and I'm fairly successful with aiming too.
There are of course pros and cons. The old bombsight meant that you had to intercept the buffs because you knew they were going to hit their target. Seeing buffs at 25k+ wasn't so much an issue since I still see buffs at that alt even now.
With the new bombsight then if I do see high alt buffs now then you can pretty much let them go by because they'll only hit their target if they're good buffers - of course I'll intercept if they're heading to HQ.
I also tend to see many formations of buffs coming in below 5k alt so they can pork the entire field (and probably because they can't aim at higher alts!).
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There were always guys in bombers at 5k. It's because they don't have the patience to climb higher.
The problem isn’t with the bombsite. The problem is there is so much misinformation out there you could fly with 6 different experts and still get useless information. Find someone who rarely misses, doesn’t use full throttle or a dive just before reaching the target, can use a cross wind approach and doesn’t depend on a last second calibrations. When you find these people, just follow them and ask questions instead of telling them what YOU have to do to hit the target and you might be surprised what you can learn.
Before the new bombsite, in a single Lanc at 30K, two of us would pork fuel, dar and barricks at 7 to 10 fields along a front, to soften it up for our guys. This made for some really unhappy furballers who had to wait until all these bases were captured or rebuilt to have their kind of fun so you'll never see the old bombsite come back.
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Never is a powerful word.
Your implication is that I dont know how to use the norden and your mistaken. You can satisfy your self of that really quickly.
Kwassas point is a good one. The mechanics of the sight are excellent and I do enjoy it. But in the game its of dubios value. Usually the targets you want to hit are well behind enemy lines. Yet your real chance of success is minimal. So when do you see bombers 80% at least are crawling along the ground in formation. Hopeing to kill a town that can be killed by a Typhoon in one pass. Our game just doenst work with the bombers as they are. Are they useless? No. But they are a marginalized part of the game. As to porking fields. So what? right now its being done by a hord of dweebs. No different except the skill involved.
The number of times it happend in the game was trivial, compared to the real use that was made of bombers then and know.
Its fun to see a big bomber sorti like the Knights put on last night. They must have had 60 bombers up. So the formation thing is great for that. But the sights force you to abbandon any real usefull application of bombers. Watch for an opertunity to cake run and get it over with if you care about your score. But to really set out with bombers anymore to accomplish something in regards to the game..
very very very very rare.
The game play answer to porking fuel isnt to hinder bombers in a way that fighters are not hinderd. Its to change the game play mechanics of Fuel. Put in a fire fighting vehicle that can fix the fuel fires.
I dont think that bombers were changed in this way to ballence them though. I think it was to make them more interesting. And it does. But it makes them far less usefull.
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Agree with Pongo.
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Originally posted by Pongo
The game play answer to porking fuel isnt to hinder bombers in a way that fighters are not hinderd. Its to change the game play mechanics of Fuel. Put in a fire fighting vehicle that can fix the fuel fires.
Yup, along with mobile fuel bowsers that you can spawn from nearby bases to fuel planes ala GV supplies (10 supplies carried, each supply = 25% fuel for one aircraft).
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Originally posted by Kweassa
So we go back to the ol' 25k single lanc pin-point destroying all three hangars on a small field?
Hate to be a party pooper....but I can destroy 3 hangers from 25k in a b26 half the time...and in a B17 I can kill 4 hangers ALL the time...the lanc....thats good for at minimum 6 hangers :D
The problem is not the new system...it has made a much better game.....the issue stems from a large number of players with less expeirence and less patience.
Half the time I up a buff formation I get 3/4 of my fun AFTER Im emptie...killing off the numerous silly fighters messing with me BWAHAHAHAHA!
All in all, the new system is a great success and has finally brought SKILL to bombing...takes practice and stuff :D
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Pongo I don’t mean to offend anybody and you've made some good points about the bombers not being effective. I’ve said the same thing on these boards but you’ve said “Our game just doenst work with the bombers as they are.” It’s not the bombers that are out of step, it’s the targets and more specifically the strat system that’s out of whack, on this I think we agree.
Most of the time, bombers are not used as I’d like to see them used but hey, it’s their $15. Now a single bomber formation can easily pork all the fuel at a small or large field but he can no longer affect 4 or five fields as we could before. That’s probably a good thing.
As for large bomber formations and the general level of skill, I love large bomber missions, they’re great fun, but you must admit it’s amusing to watch the results sometimes. The other night, the Rooks I think it was, sent a huge formation of bombers and escort, into Knight land and hit a City and something else but the damage done was about 75% to the City and only 25% to the other facility. That’s not much damage for the number of guys involved. If these had all been dedicated bomber guys, the effect on the Knights resources would have been much worse.
Where we disagree is
I propose that the formation bombers with their wimpy guns and crazy bomb sight be deligated to formation use only. If you want to take off a single bomber and fly it in the old way with the pickle barrel sight then that should be in the game too. As it is bombers are useless to most people and in most circumstances.
The only thing I can agree on here is that most people can’t use bombers, but why would I continue to take up a formation of B17s and fuel pork a single field from 16K when I could up a single Lanc and fuel pork 4 fields from 30K with no chance of missing? It’s a rhetorical question but I think HT has answered it before in his usual round about way.:D
If you're asking for changes, ask that the A-20 (but not the Boston), the Stuka and all the other dive bombers without level bombsights be removed from the "Bomber" category in both the hanger and the scoring. Ask for a separate category for "Dive Bombers" so rides like the IL-2 can keep their outside views. IMO none of these rides belong in the level "Bomber" category because the skill level is so different. These are the rides your milk runners choose for their cake walks on strat tagets behind the front lines. Some are fast, most are effective and they do wonders for the bomber scores.
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Originally posted by ALF
Hate to be a party pooper....but I can destroy 3 hangers from 25k in a b26 half the time...and in a B17 I can kill 4 hangers ALL the time...the lanc....thats good for at minimum 6 hangers :D
The problem is not the new system...it has made a much better game.....the issue stems from a large number of players with less expeirence and less patience.
Half the time I up a buff formation I get 3/4 of my fun AFTER Im emptie...killing off the numerous silly fighters messing with me BWAHAHAHAHA!
All in all, the new system is a great success and has finally brought SKILL to bombing...takes practice and stuff :D
Right on all 4 counts ALF. Although, there are things that must be taught before any amount of practice will help and you can't learn it by RTFM. The only way they'll get it is if they are taught by someone who has spent the last 6 months experimenting and reading these boards.
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The old bombing system was just way too easy.
The new one asks too much of the pilot.
I dont have 2 heads and four arms damn it!!!!!!
How the hell am I suppose to gun while I calibrate the bombsight?
I cant do that so I am defenseless unless I got a gunner which isnt the case for alot of people.
Maybe if the bombsight didnt require so much work.
I would prefer if the calibration reduced the cone of drop of the bombs.
If you calibrate well your bombs dont disperse much.
High alt bombing would be tough because the cone would be longer.
Make it so that at 30K you would need big bombs to hit fuel or other targets of the same size.
If its hard to hit fuel at very high alt then people wont bother.
If they come lower then they are easy to intercept.
Maybe auto calibration of limited quality if you fly level for a while. That way you can defend your bomber instead of being shot down by a con you never saw which is frustrating.
Then you would have to drop larger loads to kill targets because calibration isnt very good.
Its not realistic but it would work alot better then the current system IMO.
Lining up for target is almsot impossible on the map.
If we only had headings for waypoints we could set then we could do it easily. That would reduce the frustration.
Give us the ability to set waypoints on the map and a HDG counter so we know what heading we have to go.
B17 Navigator was there for a reason.
Calibration speed counter would be nice too so we know what speed to fly and if we accelerated and need to slow down.
Bombers are too much work for to little gain IMO.
I dont want the bombers of old, they were to damn easy.
Id just like something that doesnt require me to have as many arms and heads as Vishnu. Cuz I dont.
An frustrated ex-Bomber pilot.
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Im with Pongo:D
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"Right on all 4 counts ALF. Although, there are things that must be taught before any amount of practice will help and you can't learn it by RTFM. The only way they'll get it is if they are taught by someone who has spent the last 6 months experimenting and reading these boards."
anoying implications that people just dont know how to bomb.
a little research would indicate other wise.
3 bomber score hit %s from the score page
456.41 %
183.761 %
96.875 %
Which one is pongo. Which one is alf. Which one is easyscor.
From the posts I have read here. I might belive that my bomber accuracy isnt over twice some of our experts and nearly 5 times other experts. That in know way invalidates your opinion on the bombing game mechanic. But it will probably stop you braging about your skills and implying that I am talking about something that I have know idea about.
I have had a score at times near 800%. I know how to use the bomb sight. I could school both of you on it it seems.
So if we have dismissed your issue of training. Can we talk about how most people who want to play the game with bombers go about doing it. How use of bombers and interesting intercepts of bombers have diminished a great deal. How the guns on bomber formations are far weaker then the guns were on single bombers? How when an interceptor sees a formation of anything but B17s at combat alt they see 3 easy kill tickets that might as well be goons.
I hole hartedly aggree that I like the mechanics of the norden and I think it is very well implemented and meets its objectives. But as some others have pointed out. It has moved bombers out of sync with the "game". For playing the "Game" bombers where far more usefull and therfor better used in the old system.
BUT
I think that the altitude constraints of the wind layer should be kept. That is a valuable game mechanic that keeps the strato buff in check. Although I think it was a very very rare bird where as our goon attack formation of buffs is a common sight.
So only have the norden for formations and make it manditory. And keep the wind layer but the other bombers dont have a sight that will compensate.
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hehe, Yup, kinda hard to get hit% when your target of choice moves at 35 mph and has 5" guns :D Or if you prefer to plink fuel with salvo 2 for 16K to 25K. I don't worry about hit% or score anymore but I did check the hours spent in bombers last tour.
3.58 hr.
3.55 hr.
44.34 hr.
Seems to me the guy spending over half his time in bombers must be getting something out of it and might know something about it don't you think? :) Check the total damage and hit% from last tour for all three peps in question ;) Then check the player kill stats for kills and deaths in bombers. I really need to improve my gunnery.
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Heres the deal. I said I dont like to fly bombers any more and why. You implied it was because I dont know how, I showed you I do indeed know how. Know your issue is how much I fly them.
That is my issue too. Its not fun, I cant effect the game with them so I dont fly them.
So maybe its not an issue of RTFM. I have months of nearly 25 or 30 hours in bombers.
Now I spend about 25% of my time in bombers. Probably twice the game average.
As to your stats. There is no bomber that your 1 to 1 kills to deaths in. Doenst imply some great skill in defensive gunnery.
Most of us use bombers for a quick cake walk to get it out of the way. Those that dont use them as jabos.
Some very small % use them as big raid generators.
But the game doenst fit bombers anymore. Why would I take a bomber to kill a base or a fuel or a town. I can take down a town my self with a Typhoon more quilckly. I can take down fuel with the same plane more quickly.
anyway. the game has to be playable by people that dont want to spend 80 hours a month playing it.
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Originally posted by Pongo
As to your stats. There is no bomber that your 1 to 1 kills to deaths in. Doenst imply some great skill in defensive gunnery.
Well someone fits & enjoys every category I guess, I use 17s to hit multiple back fields from alt, always get a little company and strive each month to get a 2:1 k/d with my B-17 formations, 1:1 is easy, sooner or later I'll get over 2:1 :)
I really like the way bombers are now, no change needed for my play style.
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Your play style would still be there.
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You guys used up all my cheese! :mad:
Stop whining - you resemble that avatar of yours.
I ENJOY this current bombing method because not every dweeb and thier dog can do it well.
THIS part of the game takes some skill, (and i'm not saying you lack it, jeeze :rolleyes: )
You say your good, yet you want it easier for you. Reminds me of the 'ace' 'vet' pilots that fly La7s and N1Ks.
If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it.
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I can sink a carrier with the bomb site if someone leaves me alone long enough.
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Originally posted by BenDover
I can sink a carrier with the bomb site if someone leaves me alone long enough.
I can sink a carrier by strafing it with the 110s dual 30mm...
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No. Im saying good or not is irrelivant. The use of bombers in the "Game" as in captureing enought fields for a reset or defending your country from that outcome is crippled.
It is nice to have found the 3 guys in the game that still think they make use of the bombers in a productive way though.
And since your so skillled. What do you care if the game is changed back so that a relativly unskilled bomber pilot in relation to your self can take up a bomber and hit point targets from 15k with out a 10 mile run up?You will have 3 bombers and be doing it from orbit. How does it weeken the game for bomber aces like yourselves to make them somewhat more realisically available for tactical use in the game in a non suicide manner?
wooo hooo there are 4 of us in the game out of 3000 subscibers that make use of bombers in the way that Pyro intended with the norden! wooo hooo. The number is higher then that but it is pathetically low.
Why not roll them partialy back to where they were. Make under the wind layer precision from one bomber alot easier. Keep strat bombing from high alt with formations the same it is now.
I guess I want it all. I want the big buff formations flattening a whole base from orbit. and I want to be able to take up a lone B26 and support my squad in a base attack as well, duke it out with the interceptors at 15k and still have a chance to hit the base.
not that much to ask for. When you take a single bomber you have the choice of norden or not. When you take a formation you have to take the norden.
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i can bom in here no problem...the boming is excellent..Good job HTC..even after ALL the CRIES at first..
Pongo if u need some lessons...find the Marine Air Wing..we can help u..
Love
BiGB
xoixo
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Pongo..lmfa i just read anothere of ur posts...
You should defntly change ur avator to...ababy crying ur name out PONGO!!!! waaaaaaaaa......lmfaaaaoooo
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Have you ever even flown a bomber in the game?
But we all see your hordes driving bombers to enemy bases cause they dont know how to fly them. Your opinion is noted.
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"A reltively unskilled bomber pilot"
A first day 2 weeker can do it, provided they bother to climb to alt and have a gunner who's any good.
The 'Norden' is here because they fixed it from the picklebarrel 30k pinpoint bombing. HT knows what he wants. and this is how he wants it.
Plus it'd make it less fun (for me) knowing that anyone who bothered to try could do it too. We're good at this, so let's just do it. Don't like the Norden, don't use bombers then?
This is realistic anyways - i like realism. (drifting off topic) Bombers in RL didnt drop on specific targets, they pummeled the crap out of the area of thier target in massive numbers. I think that works better here than trying to hit specific 3 sq yard boxes of fuel and such. (and it's more fun plowin up gardens)
for remaining surprisingly civil throughout this thread!
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Originally posted by Rutilant
"A reltively unskilled bomber pilot"
A first day 2 weeker can do it, provided they bother to climb to alt and have a gunner who's any good.
The 'Norden' is here because they fixed it from the picklebarrel 30k pinpoint bombing. HT knows what he wants. and this is how he wants it.
Plus it'd make it less fun (for me) knowing that anyone who bothered to try could do it too. We're good at this, so let's just do it. Don't like the Norden, don't use bombers then?
This is realistic anyways - i like realism. (drifting off topic) Bombers in RL didnt drop on specific targets, they pummeled the crap out of the area of thier target in massive numbers. I think that works better here than trying to hit specific 3 sq yard boxes of fuel and such. (and it's more fun plowin up gardens)
for remaining surprisingly civil throughout this thread!
Your incorrect. Bombers in real life droped single bombs on single targets. from alt in level flight. It was a matter of normal usage in ww2. There are inumberable accounts of it. If you ignored a ww2 heavy bomber over your field and just let him drop he would mess your base up. Thats why they developed the things.Just because they were used in mass numbers area attacks doenst mean that that is the only way they were used. Now admittedly the Norden we have will allow that as well.
You can not speak for HT. Kind of silly for you to presume you can. The game evolves and changes and grows. I am saying there is room in the game for both versions of bombers. And if the old sight was only effective below the wind layer whats the harm?
We use one man to take the roles of 30 men and wonder why its quite ineffective.
Bombers just dont matter in the game. They are just fodder. Its a waste of the effort it took to develope them for the game.
Besides. This whole forum is for game play discussions. What are we supposed to do here but discuss them?
Yet the only real rebuttle of my point is that its a training issue. Some are rought and tough and like to buff and others cant hack it...lol I think that the bombers are over whelmingly used in dweebish ineffective ways in the game. Far more so than when the old system was available.
We are 6 days into the month. I think I am 22 to 1 against bombers in the MA. Most of that is the ways they have to fly.
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I'm not attempting to speak for HT, i'm using common sense. HT has a good amount of control over the game, as this isnt a massive company. I can only assume he deems it beneficial for the game - and that he prefers it, otherwise he wouldnt have implemented it in the first place.
As for buffs being used dweebishly,
any on-the-deck buff is just a target, and i'de much rather have a low alt buff i can kill that porks my field rather than a 25k Lanc or B17 that porks 3 of my fields, which i can do nothing about. Same goes for CV killers (which will be plenty abundant after they're insured a level bombing CV kill) , and if the old system is brought back furballers will scream bloody murder.
It seems perfectly fine to me as it is, and I *have* thought this through, I'm not just automatically disagreeing. I still see no problem other than no AI gunner.
Oh, and 22 to 1? Looks about even to me in this thread.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Well after a nice 9 month experiment in "realistic" bombing the game play of bombing in AH has been destroyed.
I think when in F6 mode the throttle control should be automated to fix the airspeed........... just as a pilot might do
The speed chosen would be that the AC was at when the pilot goes to F6. (if its too fast then the AC flies a full throttle)
Hence then variation in speed is not a bombers concern and the norden set up is till the same procedure but not affected by it.
Manouvering from f6 would have a lesser effect as the AC lost some speed and then recovered it (I should imagine the throttle control would be slightly damped)
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Originally posted by Easyscor
If you're asking for changes, ask that the A-20 (but not the Boston), the Stuka and all the other dive bombers without level bombsights be removed from the "Bomber" category in both the hanger and the scoring.
Agreed........ off topic but
I would remove the fighter/ attack button
Move all non f6 "bombers" into attack category. (including C47)
Add attack perks
Any fighter spawning with rockets or bombs is scoring attack points
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Again..boming is FINE
but keep typing..::D
I ENJOY BOMING IN AH.....I AM DAM GOOD IN BOMING....I BOM ANYTHING FROM ANY ALT
CALIBRATE FOR MIN OF 20 SECONDS.....KEEP CONSTANT SPEED...EASY MONEY
IF OVER WIND LAYER...DO NOT MOVE MORE THEN 10 GREES AFTR CALIBRAYED...
now pongo......which..one of these cant u do??? hold steady on calib?? or speed?
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Originally posted by Pongo
Your incorrect. Bombers in real life droped single bombs on single targets. from alt in level flight. It was a matter of normal usage in ww2. There are inumberable accounts of it. If you ignored a ww2 heavy bomber over your field and just let him drop he would mess your base up. Thats why they developed the things.Just because they were used in mass numbers area attacks doenst mean that that is the only way they were used. Now admittedly the Norden we have will allow that as well.
Most of the time those were lancasters, which had a better bomb site than the norden, it auto-calibrated.
Unfortunatly the bomb aimer couldn't control the direction of flight himself, so he had to comunicate with the pilot, usually something like this,
"Left, left, right abit, hold her steady, steady, steady, BOMBS GONE!"
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Originally posted by BenDover
Most of the time those were lancasters, which had a better bomb site than the norden, it auto-calibrated.
That surprises me............. come the UK Con this october I will ask our guest speaker who was a lanc bomb aimer........
The US refused to give the Brits the Norden (or the Sperry) for use in their bombers as they considered it's design just too to let out of their control.
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Ok, maybe it wasn't 'better', but one of them did auto-calibrate.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
I'm not attempting to speak for HT, i'm using common sense. HT has a good amount of control over the game, as this isnt a massive company. I can only assume he deems it beneficial for the game - and that he prefers it, otherwise he wouldnt have implemented it in the first place.
As for buffs being used dweebishly,
any on-the-deck buff is just a target, and i'de much rather have a low alt buff i can kill that porks my field rather than a 25k Lanc or B17 that porks 3 of my fields, which i can do nothing about. Same goes for CV killers (which will be plenty abundant after they're insured a level bombing CV kill) , and if the old system is brought back furballers will scream bloody murder.
It seems perfectly fine to me as it is, and I *have* thought this through, I'm not just automatically disagreeing. I still see no problem other than no AI gunner.
Oh, and 22 to 1? Looks about even to me in this thread.
Not sure what the hell your saying in most of this. We are encourage to have discussion on game play. Thats why there is a game play forum. Yet you bring up some nonsence about cant change it cause thats the way HT wants it. You accept that is a stupid point of view I hope. Or at least is should be apperant to others that it is a stupid point of view as it would discount any discussion. Yet the purpose of the formum is game play discussion.
you are selectivly reading. The wind layer would be in place. Bombing from above it without a calibrating sight would be useless. So your point is mute.
And I am 22 to 1 against bomber defensive guns this month. I dont understand your point. Are you saying that I have no support for this proposed game play change..your incorrect.
And mumbleMAW. keep going your putting on a good show.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Yet you bring up some nonsence about cant change it cause thats the way HT wants it. You accept that is a stupid point of view I hope.
Are you deliberately insulting Beet1e or is it just "collateral damage".
:)
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Originally posted by Pongo
Not sure what the hell your saying in most of this. We are encourage to have discussion on game play. Thats why there is a game play forum. Yet you bring up some nonsence about cant change it cause thats the way HT wants it. You accept that is a stupid point of view I hope. Or at least is should be apperant to others that it is a stupid point of view as it would discount any discussion. Yet the purpose of the formum is game play discussion.
And I am 22 to 1 against bomber defensive guns this month. I dont understand your point. Are you saying that I have no support for this proposed game play change..your incorrect.
And mumbleMAW. keep going your putting on a good show.
Is your defintion of discussion, "Agreeing With Pongo"?
Now you're changing what you said. Here you say 'bomber defensive guns'. The first time (what i'm responding to) you said 'against bombers in the MA'
(edit) exact quote: "We are 6 days into the month. I think I am 22 to 1 against bombers in the MA. Most of that is the ways they have to fly.
Get it straight
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HT wants it that way is not disscussion. Its pathetic.
So far I have had to deal with
HT wants it that way
and
If you leaned to bomb you would like it.
Some of you apperenlty love the bombing game. Well enjoy it. Its there for about 5% of you. The rest of us are too competative and want to help our counties in the game. And bombers dont do that anymore.
And as far as 21 to 1. What are you talking about. Its not a trick statement. Bombers use defensive guns vs fighters. When I say vs bombers do you think I was refering to dodging thier bombs as they droped them? My point is they are meat. Period. 4 of those bombers where B17s in formation at 8k with gunners.
The poor buggers where trying to kill a town. A town. You can do that in a heavy typhoon yourself.
I enjoyed the norden a great deal cause I loved playing bombers in the game. But its exclusive use belongs maybe in the CT. Here the game play is about base capture and denial. And the norden doenst fit that. WHen a big raid is shows up at 25k with 3 dozen buffs. That is cool and that is what the norden is for. But for tactical use it is way to much of a restriction on the usefulness of bombers.
I say. Keep the norden and make it the only sight you get if you take a formation. Keep the wind layer so that any non norden bomber is useless above that layer. For more tactical useage the old sight should be available for single bombers.
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I like the Norden. I can hit anything with it above /below the wind layer. I like it because it makes me Eliete and special, cause I PRACTICED, and can hit most anything I aim for. Not any DWEEB can do what I do.
As to the buffs defencive guns well I kilt me a 262 just the other day. and I have other examples of My gunnery.
What I hate is the Strat system. the strat that is implemented now is next to useless. The targets are worthless to go after and make no dent in the efect on the other countries ability to wage war. I would love to have strat targets really impact a countries warfighting abillity. I would love for strat targets to have that kind of impact. As it is now since strat is useless people don't up to defend them wich makes them "MILKRUN" specials.
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Well Pongo, it'd be nice if you read my post at all, past the first 3 sentences, then you're see the discussion. But when you start readin you don't see, "Pongo, you're right" so you merrilly hit that quote button and reply.
As for the 22-1 I misunderstood and throught you were referring to a community vote type thing, sorry.
Buffs aren't 'meat' if the gunner/pilot/bombadier/navigator is any good, i haven't been killed in a buff above 10k (AGL) in the last couple of tours, i have however gone in at 5k or so and gotten ripped to shreds by the furball, so i don't do that anymore and i have a great success rate. Havent flown much this tour, joystick broke and i'm huntin for a new one.
Anyhow, an experienced pilot/gunner/bombadier/navigator isnt as vulnerable as you make em out to be.
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Retulant.
here is my hope.
"I guess I want it all. I want the big buff formations flattening a whole base from orbit. and I want to be able to take up a lone B26 and support my squad in a base attack as well, duke it out with the interceptors at 15k and still have a chance to hit the base.
"
I want the norden available to both single and formation bombers and the non norden available to singles only. I want the wind layer kept so that the non norden is useless for any kind of accuracy at all from above the wind layer.
If Im being short with you please excuse me but note that I am being attacked by others at the same time.
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Agree with Pongo
SKurj
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Originally posted by Pongo
Well after a nice 9 month experiment in "realistic" bombing the game play of bombing in AH has been destroyed. Most people dont really ever use the sight. Most formations of bombers are destroyed on the deck. Any bombing other then a cake walk kind of mission where you have fields arround the enemy strat is a waste of time. You will be chased down like dog meat by suicide interceptors. Since field attack from alt is nearly imposible in a contested area. And strat targets are only really viable in milk run mode. Why bother with the bombers?
I propose that the formation bombers with thier wimpy guns and crazy bomb sight be deligated to formation use only. If you want to take off a single bomber and fly it in the old way with the pickle barrel sight then that should be in the game too. As it is bombers are useless to most people and in most circumstances.
I do enjoy the calibration..it just doenst work in the arena. And the formation guns are worse then the old single guns.
I would say that the bomber rehash just didnt work.
Today GBaLL put up a bomber mission with escorts. We flew from a safe base 3-4 sectors away from the target. The P51's flew high and circled a few times till we were with the formation of B17's. We got to the target and all the bombers in the mission bombed and hit targets from 13-16k feet. We demolished the base hangars and were able to capture it. So the spirit of "true" bombing lives on, by the few who choose to do it right :D
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Pongo wants to dogfite his way into battle, pickle eggs and be sure of a hit when he gets 10 seconds free and then dogfite his way out with a 26.
I for one am glad he can't, the arena is gamey enough, we don't need to add to that kind of play.
Pongo, try a mosquito and dive bomb.
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One of the reasons that gballs mission to 38 was a success was that I had taken down much of the fuel at that base with repeated mossquito dive bomb sorties.
That a large well thought out mission with escorts was able to make it to a base and hit it reinforces my request. It doesnt negate it in any way. I want to be able to have those kinds of sortis as well. That such an occasion stands out in the minds of the players as a rarity reinforces my point as well.
Boozer I just want to still be able to hit the target if I meet an interceptor within 10 miles of the target.
Your jibe about dive bombing is missdirected. But what ever. What you really mean is get a dozen of your friends and kamakazi the fuel at a base.
The horrible spectre of bombers in AH pre norden is very chilling to some apparently. I must have missed that. I think that even a gamy thing like making bombs totaly useless above the wind layer if you dont have a norden would be fine, so they couldnt be compensated for by a pilot with a good eye.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Most formations of bombers are destroyed on the deck.
Is there a data source that supports this assertion? A before and after comparison? You must realize that deck flying bombers would get destroyed regardless of the bombsight or gunner accuracy. Flying low is a high risk shortcut to get to a target quickly while hopefully being unseen. Both in AH and RL, such attackers were and are attacked mercilessly. Taking the time to get to altitude greatly reduces the risks. And, if anything, AH bombers are virtually immune to the high altitude airburst ack which was definately not the historical case.
I do enjoy the calibration..it just doenst work in the arena. And the formation guns are worse then the old single guns.
The new sight is not a failure and goes a long way toward reducing the use of strategic bombers as tactical attack aircraft (some call it milkrunning). The calibration routine yields the same accuracy as the old system. If anyone is not getting the same accuracy, something is being missed during the calibration. There are some great tutorials out there for the use of the Norden in AH. You can also bring a gunner along if concerned with the potential of being attacked during the bomb run.
MiG
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I have several standard packaged; Heavy bombers with clean escorts. It's hell to get people to join up because there arent an assortment of planes available.
I'm a fan of historical setups, and a 20+ bomber mission, with a variety of ordnance payloads, with 25-40 P51Ds is not a boring sortie.
too bad, most want the furball fast-food, screw-RTB variety mission. Count me out of that scenario!
Gainsie
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HMMmmm BGB...your buff score belies your claims; One would think with all the wingies yall have..ya could spend more time preppin for drop;
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also--Im with Easy about removing stukas, etc from 'bomber' category--its not an easy thing hittin hangars with buffs on norden--havin that score compared with a point potato who takes 4-5 stuka trips to a city and drops the 4 k egg...bogus--make em learn it
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iwill bom against any one..
You relying on my stats...as u should know... can be useless or at least skewed..
my hand right hand has been broken for almost 2 months now...eveen before tht... i routinely auger ..afk kills.disco's..etc etc.....
but trust me..i will bom from any alt and smash ur sht...good
there are many players who will say the same thing...
so whts ur point again?
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quote:
quote:
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Originally posted by Pongo
Most formations of bombers are destroyed on the deck.
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Is there a data source that supports this assertion? A before and after comparison? You must realize that deck flying bombers would get destroyed regardless of the bombsight or gunner accuracy. Flying low is a high risk shortcut to get to a target quickly while hopefully being unseen. Both in AH and RL, such attackers were and are attacked mercilessly. Taking the time to get to altitude greatly reduces the risks. And, if anything, AH bombers are virtually immune to the high altitude airburst ack which was definately not the historical case.
quote:
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I do enjoy the calibration..it just doenst work in the arena. And the formation guns are worse then the old single guns.
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The new sight is not a failure and goes a long way toward reducing the use of strategic bombers as tactical attack aircraft (some call it milkrunning). The calibration routine yields the same accuracy as the old system. If anyone is not getting the same accuracy, something is being missed during the calibration. There are some great tutorials out there for the use of the Norden in AH. You can also bring a gunner along if concerned with the potential of being attacked during the bomb run.
MiG
Dam mig..Exactly..well done
1 more thing...Defensive guns?????lmfao..hell i call them offensive.. must be me..but a B 17 is a flying Deathstar..I kill many..many ftrs....**im above average gunner..but a decent gunr can defend semi-well**There are a "few " pilots in this game that can attak and kill B17s ' with either no damage or usually DEATH...
and yes there is a horrrible BUG in hetre tht Still makes all explode so quickly...raree but still here
Love BiGB
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The only time I have gotten upset enough to quit my sub was when Whels shot down my Lanc using a Tempest at over 30k.
I immediately cancelled my subscription out of pure frustration. Had nothing to do with Whels. This was 2 years ago when we had the non calibrated sights.:D
Bombers have always been tough for me, even when they were easy to bomb with.
I enjoy Lanc bombing in this game. For me it used to be fun, but I don't do it because I can't calibrate the bomb sights. For some reason, I can't do it. The last 5 times I tried, I couldn't get a "green light" text to show up. When I dropped, my bombs were off about 6 town lengths from 10k alt. The sights are not calibrated, and I have not seen green text, indicating that calibration is set.
This might be funny to you, but I'm not going to waste my time flying bombers, when I can't even calibrate the sights.
I have respect for the players who are able to bomb sucessfully. When will I be able to? It is truly the most challenging part of the game, for me at this time.
Wish I wasn't so stupid...dammit!!!
Les
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Dang sorry to hear that BGB--perhaps we can have a bombing contest over a bish base in future--assuming I have a future here--my laptop cant launch a plane in MA anymore, since the new isles map--must have been some sorta server change then as well---now i can only fly MA while at home..which is like 6-7 days a month at best (wife seems have problem with that)
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bgbmaws squads bomber hit % this tour.
1.3385%
talking out your bellybutton buddy.
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pongo...finger..my hand has been broke for 2 months ...but FU..i could care less...u cant calibrate,,i think its funnny...
look at 3 months and bak..but i still auger...blah blah blah...but funny..i still kuik bellybutton in buffs..owell tuff for u...maybe u need more TA time?
229...:(..good luk on comp...happy huntn..
Leslie..when do u play...?? I am %100 for sure my Squad mates ..or me can teach u no sweat...No green lights??/ omg..that is very simple..hopefully u can find us somtime
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I knew something must be wrong, but was leaning towards a mental handycap. Having your finger where it shouldnt be would do to to though.
Keep babbleing, Your squads tactics and stats make my case bettter then anything I might say.
To reiterate. the new norden works great for what it was implemented for. But that is not of enough value in the game to make it worth while to use. The old sight on single bombers restricted by the wind layer would be a great addition to the MA.
Do I have stats to prove this. No. But it would be common knowledge to most anyone that plays this game.
Love the norder, love the formations, Love to see a 60 buff formation comming in from the sea with escorts at 27k. But to play the game lets have the pickle barrel sight back,restricted as I described, single plane only of course and hindered by the wind layer.
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i wonrt defend sht..
again my boming kiks asss..hace no complaints..calibraTIOn is easy
PONG(O again..what the hell is wrong with you..??
Can you not calibrate????
Why just under wind layer???
Dam seems u want the TA bomsight..maybe tht means you need more practice...
i dont know....but i really dont care...you know why?? I can sink CV;'s at will level boming...no cries here
So keep panting maybe HTC will perk the 'Kindergarden lazer boming" for you..little pongo...heheheh
Your squads tactics and stats make my case bettter then anything I might say ...pango
lmfao...ya we all suk...give us easier game..all the MAW are here crying for it..
Again pongo should change his avatar to "Pongo" whaa:p
Love BiGB
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o uyaa and this is great...the single B17 comes in doing barrel rolls then lazer boms the base....ya sounds really..."cool"
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Your recollection of the ease of bombing and the dominance of bombers pre norden is different then mine.
And as to my problem. Nothing specific other then thinking your a waste of oxygen.
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I very rarely fly bomber sorties (generally i find bombers boring) but even with such little experience flying them i find it easy to hit stuff. From what i see people pickle 4 bombs, drop on a single hangar.... and usually miss (not surprisingly). When i buff i set the delay to .30 or .50 and salvo all the bombs together. when i vis the field i calibrate and drop from one end of the field to the other. If in lancs or b17's you'll usually take out a couple of hanagrs and some fuel/ammo.
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single bomber with JDAMs. get rid of the stinking buff induced lag.
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Hiya BigB!!!
Thanks for the offer bro. Am looking forward to the bomber practice. Finally was able to get a "green", so I've already made some progress.:)
A few of the guys I fly with are thinking about switching to the Knights for maybe a month or so. I'll look you up soon.
We usually fly evenings from about 10 PM CST 'til....
Take care and thanks again.
Les
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good Leslie..ill look out for yas..
um...
i always salvo 2 -500's ..and lazer bom vh'etc easy...
Pongo must need more TA time
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Where they messed up was not increasing the size of the town at each airfield. The town at each airfield could stand to be 4 times larger.
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yeah, one non -1 Corsair can take out about 90% of the town on full loadout
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A few points...
Leslie, shoot me an e-mail at jpizzo127@yahoo.com and give me a date and time (a few would work better) to meet in the TA and I'll work with you.
BGB's scores may not reflect it because he's a flighty californian, and he often leaves his planes on autopilot to go do laundry or something, but put him on the bomb run, and he will hit anything he aims for. I've seen it, and I say this because he's that good..not because he's a squaddie. Watch...the BK's a great dogfighters. Not squaddies, just recognizing their skill.
Pongo,
You've flown 19 sorties this tour in a bomber, and 20 last tour, and yet you rank high. Stats are bull**** and you know it. Either you are good with the sight, which you say you are'nt, or your milkrunning.
You know what, don't fly bombers. You can find something else to do with the 3 hours a month you spend in them.
Leave the sight alone. As someone else wisely said, now it takes skill. I don't want a 2 weeker coming in, matching my hit% with no practice. I like to earn what I score. (Hence, no score padding, BS milkruns.)
I like the fact that when a CV needs to be sunk, the squad and those that know us call my group, the heavy bomber wing of the MAW. I like being the "Goto" group when accuracy is key.
I don't want anyone to compete with me in bombers until they've put in the time and energy to learn to use them right. I will gladly teach anyone that needs help.
As for defensive guns; please stop it. I have no trouble laughing off all but the best fighter pilots attacking my group. Show me a time when 90% of fighters don't come DEAD SIX at slow closure while I'm staring at them from the command of 6-18 50 Cal. machine guns, and I'll show you successful bomber killers.
Hell, even AHGOD in his 262 and then in a 163 during my same sortie fell to my guns. Make mistakes, and I will win.
Leave the Norden alone. Gone are the days of dweeby point and click bombing, hyper-accuracy from 50K. Good Riddance.
Gone are the days of one lanc leveling all FH's at a up to a MED field. Good Riddance.
I like fighting my way to a target, using skills and thought, and relying on my skills to hit said target. I like to be angry with myself when I miss. I like to force myself to try harder and fly smarter. I like a challenge.
Either learn how to do it right, or don't do it at all. Either way, leave my bombsight alone. Save the point and click bombing for the kiddies.
I'll be happy to help ANYONE who wants some pointers.
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ahh just got bak ...level bomed 2 bish cv's..(1 they stole from us)
7k at 200 ias..salvo 6 500lbers.......smashed them both good...with 2 kills for me both runs....dam fun...
needed some escort for the deep in nmy territory one..but dam fun..and succesful:)
Salute BiGB
ps..good post muck...told ya he wascrazy..hehehe
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Im with Pongo on this, all things considered
The few times I'm not greeted by an air demonstration team of 163s, I'm almost able to get bombs off on a HQ run. The drone system is pretty iffy to me. I still seem to absorb damage taken by one plane to all. So if one lanc looses a tail gun, all my planes are dead meat
Sure, give me the laser sight back. For all the time spent cruising to alt, surviving attacking cons and such...sure, it would be great to know that after all that effort, my bombs will hit what I wanted to hit.
I liked someone's idea of solo buffs have the old sight, formations have Norden
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Sorry, LePaul-
I have to disagree. As a dedicated Bomber and CO of a Bomber Squadron, one would think I would be adamant about gfetting the old bombsight back.
No thanks. I like a challenge. I like to compete with other bomber pilots where there is a level of skill involved. Not to say getting to the target in one piece takes no skill...it does.
But then, I'm a guy who would be happy going over a checklist, preflight, taxi, clearance, etc ultra-realist.
Also, I doubt you'd see any guy in my squad asking for the old sight back.
The question that sticks out to me is, why would you want to speacialize in an area of the game than ANYONE can do at the same level as you with no practice?
The Norden seperates us, the lover of heavies from just any old fighterjock who feels like a change of pace.
Does anyone understand what I mean, or am I not being clear on my position?
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muck you are spot on.
This game should take some effort to be good at. Frankly, the bomb sight on the buffs isn't that hard to use either. I hardly fly buffs but after spending 1 hour in the TA a while back practicing with it, I can hit almost as well as I used to be able to with the pinpoint sight. Those that are whining about the sight obviously haven't taken the trouble to learn how to use it.
Keep the calibrating sight. We could do with some refinements (such as a speed display when calibrating) but in general I think it is an enhancement over the old system.
And muck you're right, it's good to have something to separate the casual buffers from the dedicated drivers.
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Excellent point.
Airspeed indicator in the bombsight...that's where we ARE getting screwed. The bombsight should tell us in a digital display, what our current speed is, and the speed at which we calibrated.
(I'll settle for analog)
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Forget the airspeed indicator.
I'd settle for a compass to use for wind layer work. That compass we have with it's 6 degrees wide offset dial is hard to read in a hurry but if we can't have a digital compass in the bombsight, at least change the pointer to reflect the true heading, and how about smaller 5 degree tick marks so we can actually make adjustments of less than 3 degrees.
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One other thing would be nice--all 3 fediddlein drones converge at 250 yards.--the only one that has its guns converge further is the one you're gunnin from---If the dipstick is inside 250 yards..I dont need 2 other bombers to kill him---if it MUST be at 250..at least give the option of not wasting the precious ball ammo from the other buffs (17's in my case)
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If you want a compromise, then keep all of the other setup process and automate the actual calibration -- set a time that it takes to do an accurate calibration (say, 30 seconds), and give that a small CEP (not perfect, but close), with shorter calibration times giving a larger CEP (i.e., the calibration point being off in a random direction by a distance proportional to how much you shortcut the calibration time). Once the calibration is complete, everything else functions as it does now -- you turn, it throws the calibration off until the sight stabilizes, changed wind angle throws off the calibration, changed speed or altitude throws off the calibration...
This wouldn't remove the necessity of keeping your plane stable at your calibration course, altitude, and speed; it just eliminates the finicky detail of having to track the ground with the scope, handwaving that as being done by a crewman who knows what they're doing.
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bj
[hint]One of your requests is already available.[/hint]:)
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bj, i believe if you press the #2 button on your joystick it will just fire the gun your in, but not your whole buff, just the gun position you're firing from.. i.e. 2 50cals.
Edit - Oh.. and if he gets within 250, either you're dead, or he's dead :p (assuming you're referring to the low-6 'attacks', since you use the ball as an example)
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when 18 out of 20 bomber attacks are done from 1'-5000' that should tell you everything.
and the ones above 2500' miss the target 65% of the time.
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Yah I knew that about single buff guns..what I was tryin to get across is the wasted ammo on the other buffs that converges at 250--ya can score hits on a 6 fighter at 1000, but only from the buff you are IN--the other 2 buffs might as well be throwin ammo boxes out the window (psst, I ALWAYS bomb at 15.5k--miss mebbe 45% of the time;)
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What i mean is, only 2 50cals out of all 3 buffs, drone's dont fire either.
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bj,
The convergence of every gun in your formation is preset at 1000 yds and you don’t have to waste all that ammo when the distance isn’t 1K, fire only the gun position you occupy instead. Find the options in the setup and do some testing offline.
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Didn't read the whole "mudslinging " thread but my $0.02 is:
I tried many times 15-20 to use the new bombsite. Read Kweassa's tut, got instructions from squaddies ect... long story short I think I killed 1 hanger with 3 B17s. Needless to say I've never tried bombing since using this sight. Won't try again either. Only way I get bomber points anymore is taking TBMs and bombing VHs, cities, etc...
Never bombed 'alot' but I could hit stuff and it was kinda fun. Basically what it boils down to is the introduction of the "norden" ended my bombing in AH for good. Not a whine or gripe just stating the facts.
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15-20 isn't many.
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well im still bombing with ease... kill cv's with level bomn from b-26's and b-17's from 7-10k...
if any of you neeed help ..feel free to ask....
but you need to say whats going wrong for me to help...
its is a fairly easy system....
almost any monkey can do it..besides pongo i guess..
BiGB
xoxo
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well I KNOW I Can woop BGB in spelling;
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OK so when in calibration mode, you can move the crosshairs left and right as well, but that's rather pointless, yes? because the plane will not allow the bombardier to make course corrections, so...whats the point?
I'm a fighter jock anyway....bombing is more frustrating now than ever. Gimme a loaded corsair and I'll level 90% of the town...give me 3 lancs, and I'll miss by 5 miles.
Go figure,
Gainsie
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sounds like ya talkin about movin crosshairs while in calibration mode (yellow text in there?) Anyhow...bombadier can make slight course changes by movin stick left and right as pilot would do to flip ailerons---in bombadier mode, that does gentle rudder movement--doesnt fek up calibration
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lolo dammit my right hjand is in a cast it hurts spelling suks
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Originally posted by BenDover
15-20 isn't many.
Hehehe. Sorry but that shows my interest in buffing. Never liked it much. Way too boring but gave it a try... If I can't do something in a video game in 15-20 tries, it's a joke. :)
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quiter
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Bombing isn't hard if you will spend at least one session in the Training Arena. The Green "X" training site there will help you verifiy your calibrations without requiring you to even actually drop any bombs. The green "x" in the site will always show where your bombs will/would hit.
For me the difficulty is not the issue, it just isn't fun to do.
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Bigger and better explosions would make it more fun, wouldn't it?
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Old bomb site... used to fly bombers quarter of the time.
New site... can't hit with any sort of accuracy. Spent hours in the TA, calibrating with all the board hints and directions. Everytime, I'd look down at the green cross on the ground, it was at varying offsets, up to a thousand or so feet forward, back, to the side of the Norden cross hairs. I tried every possible calib proceedure. Start from 20 miles out, follow a point for 30 to 40 seconds, click on a sea level altitude field, don't touch a thing, look down and the green cross was off from the cross hairs by 100 feet sometimes, and a quarter mile at others... even over water with the zero altitude offset. There never seemed to be any rhyme or reason for the offsets
Now I never use a bomber. Maybe it's my old analog joystick equipment that the Norden can't be calibrated with. Don't know. But, bombing is just zero fun in the game for me. If I could at least get the Norden to calibrate in the TA, I know it would be fun to use in the MA. I do like the calibration proceedure stuff.
Maybe the Norden ability to calibrate depends on a person's system set up. Some people seem to have no trouble calibrating, and others find it impossible. I just know on my old P3 500 mhz machine with the old analog CH gameport connection, I can't calibrate the Norden in the TA to get the green target impact cross to line up with the Norden cross hairs even close.
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I kill cv's with ease in b17s or B26s ...from 7k 10k...
I pinpoint baaraks-ammo-fuel..with salvo 1....
you must be doing somthn very wrong...
many players in our squad bom very well....
This bomsight is very usable
i drop on moving targets....and kill them..95% of time..
I am a CV killer if needed
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BigB:
Curious to know if you're using a USB joystick system and a high speed connection. Also, what sort of frame rates are you getting near airports. I spent so much time in the TA trying to get the Nordon down... drove me totally nutty. Tried, B26's, B17's, Lanc's... for many many hours. Very frustrating.
Like I mentioned, some people have no probs calibrating, others do. It might be some sort of joystick deadzone setting... maybe... or joystick curves. Or maybe frame rate issues. My machine really starts chunking to less than 10 fps near an active field. Or just my lack of talent with this thing.
But, I know from experience in developing and testing flight sims that some of the old joystick potentiometers could get a bit noisy over time. With some joysticks you could watch the calibration cross start dancing around the Windows calibration Test window. (Humm... just for the heck of it, just checked my joystick Test calibration... the cross is dancing a tiny bit, but within deadzone values. Might have to try a digital USB joystick.)
Anyway, curious to know what sort of hardware you're running on.
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pretty basic...
dialup 56k... pings usually 200
p4 1.6 gig
saitek cybork digital usb
frame rates 30-70 fps..
ati 8500..i have crappy screen
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It's not the setup. What makes the difference is ignoring the 2sec to calibrate shown in the bombsight's HUD, and calibrate for 20 or 30 seconds - after alt and speed are constant.
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Tried 20-30 sec. Still same prob. Just spend 2 hrs in TA after recalibrating analog joystick system, trying to line up impact point with cross hairs. One in eight or so tries will line up. All the others were off by couple hundred feet or so, either forward or aft. My pitch axis seems to have a slight bit of noise, but not sure if that would mess up the Norden calculations. One would think that the calculations were based on the crosshair view as opposed to joystick positions. Don't know. Tis rather frustrating.
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
OK so when in calibration mode, you can move the crosshairs left and right as well, but that's rather pointless, yes? because the plane will not allow the bombardier to make course corrections, so...whats the point?
I'm a fighter jock anyway....bombing is more frustrating now than ever. Gimme a loaded corsair and I'll level 90% of the town...give me 3 lancs, and I'll miss by 5 miles.
Go figure,
Gainsie
In calibration mode, moving the crosshairs has no effect on the plane. The crosshair has to move in all directions so that the you can pick a spot on the ground to hold them on while the site calibrates.
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Originally posted by peterg2
Tried 20-30 sec. Still same prob. Just spend 2 hrs in TA after recalibrating analog joystick system, trying to line up impact point with cross hairs. One in eight or so tries will line up. All the others were off by couple hundred feet or so, either forward or aft. My pitch axis seems to have a slight bit of noise, but not sure if that would mess up the Norden calculations. One would think that the calculations were based on the crosshair view as opposed to joystick positions. Don't know. Tis rather frustrating.
One thing to be SURE of is that your stick has NO spikes. I get spikes in all my controllers and this makes for zero chance of success with the bombsight.
BTW, the Norden was intend to take the strat buffs out of the tactical roll. In this respect, it has only had limited success. Personally, I would prefer changes be made to the strat system than to the bombsight. If changes are made to the bombsight...simplify the proceedure (and take the fargin stick out of the process!!).
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make very sure u do not let go/ move stick before u release your calibration button...
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
make very sure u do not let go/ move stick before u release your calibration button...
Sorry BG but this is totally incorrect. You can do anything you like with the crosshairs between the time you start your mark and end so long as the beginning and end are on the same point. It's simple Trig.
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One thing ive found is that after I mark my spot and hold it fer 10+ seconds (I usually mark whatever i see first when i enter calibration mode--which is straight down)--I hold that mark for a 3 count after I let off the mark button..then let GO of stick..wait 2-3 MORE seconds..THEN hit "U" to end calibration--if it all doesnt go perfectly..do it all over agin. (and if ya are having to move crosshairs sideways during calibration to hold mark..then you are above 16k, and hitting specific buildings, instead of some girly target like depots..is less then likely;)
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easycor..u are totally wrong.....loollo
you must be misunderstanding...
WHEN YOU ARE CALIBRATING.....YOUR CROSS HAIRS SHOULD NOT MOVE MORE THEN A FEW MILLIMETERS...OR YOU CALIBRATION WILL NOT BE CORRECT...
WHEN HOLDING DOWNTHE CALIBRATION BUTTON..DO NOT MOVE CROSSHAIRS FROM YOUR "MARK POINT"
im saying be sure you let go of your "mark point " button mines "y" before you let go of your joystik...
pretty simple
easycor....i have always held it still..and bom very well..im thinkn ill stay that way....
why would everyone calibrate for longer then a half a second? you could just clikand un clik in a split second same spot.... and it be perfect? hmmm
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You've said it again, and more clearly, WHEN YOU ARE CALIBRATING.....YOUR CROSS HAIRS SHOULD NOT MOVE MORE THEN A FEW MILLIMETERS...OR YOU CALIBRATION WILL NOT BE CORRECT...
Ok BG, go into calibration mode, set your target alt and as you approach the target, find a gun emplacement and while your cross hairs are over it, press and hold the "u" key. Don't release the "u" key but move the crosshairs out of the way untill you've waited your favorite number of seconds. Put the crosshairs back on the gun emplacement again and release your "u" key. Exit calibration mode you're done. Now go try it, if you did everything else right you won't miss, I promise.
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wow..i will try it..im not betting against you though:)
that really would be sweet tho....thx
Salute
BiGB
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I'd hoped it would take longer to get out, because it makes calibrating the bombsight a lot easier, but Easycor's right, BGBMAW; the sight calibration doesn't care where the crosshairs are except for when the calibration key is pressed or released; while it's held down, your FE ignores the crosshair. How close your starting and ending points are determine how accurate your calibration is, not how well you kept the crosshairs on that point during the calibration period.
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I can't comment on general gameplay, or the effects of the bombing changes on general gameplay.
But I can say that I love the changes that were made last year. I know I don't fly enough to make a big difference one way or the other, but my Buff flying went up by about 1 billion % :eek: with the new system.
What I'm really wondering, is this: where does my buff style fit into everyones notions of good and evil with regard to general gameplay? Here's what I usually do:
Grab a B-26 formation with as many big bombs as possible. Take off and head towards the target, climbing to abaout 5-6k above the target alt. Drop bombs on whatever target of opportunity arises at the field (I love flying bombers, but never really got the hang of strat lol). Usually the VH or the town. Then, if I'm still alive, I'll circle down to the deck and try and strafe the town with all those nose guns. If the town is already down, I usually will hit the deck and try to run for home.
So, am I part of the problem, or part of the solution? I just don't know how to feel about myself and need validation in order to sleep at night.
-Sik
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:D lol Sikboy :D
If you have to ask, your skins too thin to fly bombers ;)
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:eek:so much delay I hit submit button again... opps:o
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why i fly bomers...
1) i love killn cvs withthem...7-10k alt
2) going ahaed of squad ataks to kill ,...barrkas-fuel-ammo.or vh's..you can salvo 1 ata timefor the fuel-ammo-barrkas
3) killing start targtes.cities-refineries-aaa-radar factories-(this slows downthere repair times on bases
4) HQ raids...ahh love kill radar..but if you dont kill there barraks surrounding the HQ its almost useless...cause they can just goon it..
5) on HQraids ..me163 s come to meet you..and there fun to pop:)
easycor..thx for more info on bomn...apreciate it..thts kikasss
Salute
BiGB
xoxo
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Keep formations as is , bring back laser
sight and let the bombers rolling.
More people will fly bombers with laser sights,more the fighters who will hunting them,more fights at high alts, more war.
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Something more.....
Mobile Artillery also katiusha rockets and
88's at fields but also mobile 88s with tracks.
This will bring normandy style carpet bombing and jabo attacks but also more
furballs low & high alt to protect them.
This type of war is more tactical and less
strategic but its a war for all at all levels.
Terrible fights for just one field.
Rush and counter attacks at his best.
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And something more :) for Pyro and HT...
AH must continue to be the best flight sim
(even if not perfect) , But Must Become
also the Best in ground war.
I explain.....
Online flight sim community is a close
community from hardcore plane lovers and the others who come and go.
( Hardcore are not many :) )
Many reasons, but the more common i
think is they found difficulties and they
just brake.
I have bring many friends to see and play AH, you know what their reaction is ?
When they see furballs they love it, but
when they come to fly ,after 1-2 crashes
or kills (eating ground ) they take a panzer or ostie or m16 and they go for their battle. But many days they cant find this battle. And ofcourse they dont subscribe.
The ground war will bring Many-Many
more subscribers plus the flight hardcores.
And we must not forget that the meaning of air war (at least at WWII )
is just the support of the land war who
will conquer land.
( i read for airplanes from my 12, now im 43, if i had not make a bad young mistake now i would be a f-16 or mirage 2000 pilot, i was playing AW from 93 when came in a greek bbs with
amiga-500 (amiga dweeb :) ) with mouse.
I have a high knowlege backround about air combat iam 1,5 year in AH and still i dont call my self even average pilot :)
But i can sure call my self Hardcore.
Open the gates to the more usual players with the ground war and sure
the air combat will go more high.
And the customers ofcourse ;)
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HELL NO ..DONT BRING BACK UBER DWEEB BOMING FOR RETARDS LAZER BOMING......
and jesus..start your own thread about"ground war"...dont hi jak...
hades ya grounfd war is fun....but this is Aces "High"....i lovess GVs...but this is a BOMING thread..lolol
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I'm sitting in the bomb sight and my buddy... Ned is manning the guns.
I'm calibrating... holding down the cross hairs on a spot on the ground.... counting to 10...
one... two... three....... four...
eight...
[rrrrrrriipppp]
nine
"Phew gawd man! what's that smell"
ten
[Open bombbay doors to ventilate but the smell gets stronger...]
[can't see through the tears in my eyes from the stink...can't breath... choking... jump through bomb hatch... and pull chut].
Needlesstosay because of my gunner's farts I wasn't able to calibrate properly. Totally missed the target...
HT PLEASE FIX THIS!!!
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lol!
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DmdNexus
ROFL
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i read why u missed nexus.....u need to have bombay doors open before u calibrate:)