Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on May 10, 2001, 06:16:00 AM
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it is subtle and mysterious and missing.
it was there in Warbirds scenarios, HA and even MA. somehow when playing that game it felt like you were pretending to be a ww2 pilot.
here it feels like we have the worlds greatest warbird flight modelling and ground air warfare yet it is missing that quality of being a ww2 sim.
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I think there are a few reasons:
1. We've been doing this too long and too often.
2. Things like the in-flight AWACS datalink display and simplfied bomber gunning and bomb aiming and CV Aegis fire control really make it clear that you are not in WWII, and you are playing a game. WWII planes on a WWIII battlefield.
3. Historical terrains and plane matchups always help.
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I subscribe each of your points, Funked.
Cheers,
Pepe
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4. Some of the real-world based terrains in WB (like the Mediterranean) actually helped. Instead of flying South of Axx, you were just off Malta (or over the Nile).
I know they were scaled, not terribly accurate and all but it made a difference I think.
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F4U1C
NIK2J
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I disagree Grunherz. What Cit's saying does not relate with presence/absence/FM/weapons of any plane in particular.
Yet I can find a hell of a funny time whenever I am online (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cheers,
Pepe
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S!
I agreed we could use some historical maps too.The Italian map in one Check6 was nice,so why not add some others too like Normandy-region,France/Germany etc.Would be great to have them as even separate arenas so the furballers could stay at MA (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)In short..more variety in maps(as it is prolly gonna be in 1.07?)
Also another minor(not critical IMO) is that the cockpits could be tidied up and still HOPING some day getting METRIC gauges to planes that have them...Oh well.AH is pretty OK as it is,but there's always room for improvement under time...
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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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And, you will note, it only took five posts. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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...And only couple more for first (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Kieran, exactly.
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I know everyone hated the WB RPS, but I thought it added a feeling of "history" to the game. It gave a sense of what technical progress meant to the people fighting the war.
Agree with the points about inflight DAR and fantasy terrains making AH more "gamelike".
Also, the Perk system is a constant reminder that we are "gaming".
popeye
[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 05-10-2001).]
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the maps, the field capture system, the idiotic perk system and everything about the bombers. All these things are bad for immersion and for the gmeplay itself but..
You can have no icons and "historical" plane matchups in scenarios but the truth is... "feeling like your a WWII pilot" is highly overated. i don't want to pretend I'm a WWII pilot iof it means limitintg myself to such boring and lopsided planesets. Just like the real pilots, I just wanna shoot somethin down.
lazs
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Citabria:
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here it feels like we have the worlds greatest warbird flight modelling and ground air warfare yet it is missing that quality of being a ww2 sim.
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Yup.
anRky
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Ditto Funks comment...
Do you know why SWOTL is still one of my favorites? Because it was one of the first sims that got me totally immersed in the game itself, nothing will ever compare to that first "total immersion" that I felt.
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LOL Kieran.....I told ya. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Citabria:
it is subtle and mysterious and missing.
it was there in Warbirds scenarios, HA and even MA. somehow when playing that game it felt like you were pretending to be a ww2 pilot.
here it feels like we have the worlds greatest warbird flight modelling and ground air warfare yet it is missing that quality of being a ww2 sim.
Maybe what your feeling is a by-product of something that is exclusive to you? I mean you think this effect is what everyone is thinking? Maybe you are just just geting mechanical about it (you have been doing sims a long time citabr)...or even maybe you are just growing up..naaa...
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Funked... I'm gona hire you man for my next add campaign here... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Can't have a WW2 Immersion if you're surrounded by all sorts of your Airforce's planes (Not 109's with LA7's escorting a B17 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
Scenarios are there for that purpose if I remember well...
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Saw
[MASS]
Unterdweeboffizier 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://saintaw.cyberspace.be/saw_cour.jpg)
"Misfortune"
While good fortune often eludes you, this one never misses.
http://www.despair.com (http://www.despair.com)
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 05-10-2001).]
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For shreck's sake...
All this banging on about historical this and historical that, but only a small proportion of people actually SUPPORT THE HISTORICAL EVENTS.
I don't mean the multi-frame campaigns, I mean the weekend events. Don't like the way they are set up? Then get off your fat arse and design one or start a thread discussing what you would like to see.
Maybe then start a vague and 'hand-wavy' thread about AH missing 'something' or how you want a HA. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Absolutely right, Dowding. Look at the work put into the ladder competition, then look how many people joined the latest tournament. Look at the demand for regular events, then look at the turnout. The numbers don't match, friends.
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Only real difference I can see between the AH sense of immersion and the WB (pre WW2 arena) sense of immersion was the participants.
If this is a quest for the MA to become a WW2 arena, then I am not for it.
AKDejaVu
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many online role play games haz Hardcore servers <something like lets say Historical arena> where u can REAly chalange your skill and win biger revards < maybe more perkies ? > and for the hapy furbal the MA just like in many other online games the cheap arena for fast fun
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Kieren - I just don't understand how the MA can appeal more to people than an historical event. I know Historical events aren't for everyone, but I've been at events with only 20 other people when the MA has 140 people in.
Who cares if A11 is under attack from a mixed wave of VVS/LW/USAF/RAF planes when you could be pretending to be a B17 pilot fending off swarms of 190s or a spitfire pilot attacking Ju88s over Blighty?
For me historical events and campaigns are the only reason I really play AH. The MA is just a distraction. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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MA Handle: Koba
Acting CO
No. 272 Squadron "Whispering Death" (http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html)
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Those two hurt AH far beyond their FM wierdness...
You can add the following things to the last:
BS Bombers
BS CV "Psychic" 10 mile flak
BS Ostis- hopefully fixed in 1.07
What these all do is encourage cheap gaming of the game, thus AH goes from being a WW2 oriented high realism simulator, to simply being another online shoot-em-up game; a sort of fancy air quake.
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My heart is in HA, my reality is MA (because of time). Then again, I like the option of doing whatever turns my crank on a particular night, too. It is true the real strengths and weaknesses of a/c aren't apparent when not pitted against historical foes, but it is fun to play "what if". I guess there are a whole lot of ways to look at the picture.
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They need to have stats for the Scenarios, and a Scenario stat page, that way you'd get more involved.
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THREADJACKER!
Hang hiiiiiiiiiim!!!!!
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
F4U1C
NIK2J
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NO!!! Don't hang him. BUUUUURRRNN HHIIIIIIIMMM!!!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Mav
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Nothing says realistic WW2 feel like an arena full of panzer killing, 1000yd spraying, HO chogs- with their tremendous service record in the war and all.....
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Originally posted by Dowding:
Kieren - I just don't understand how the MA can appeal more to people than an historical event. I know Historical events aren't for everyone, but I've been at events with only 20 other people when the MA has 140 people in.
Who cares if A11 is under attack from a mixed wave of VVS/LW/USAF/RAF planes when you could be pretending to be a B17 pilot fending off swarms of 190s or a spitfire pilot attacking Ju88s over Blighty?
For me historical events and campaigns are the only reason I really play AH. The MA is just a distraction. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The reason we have so low a turnout for the Weekend events is not a lack of interest, or even a lack of desire to re-enact WWII scenarios. It stems from a few reasons.
First, I think that there is no true reward for a scenario for the avarage player because they are just a few hours long, once a week. Sure you feel good doing it, but there is no lasting effect, the arena resets and there is a new and different one next week.
Second, Many people don't like the structure of the scenarios. The whole loggin, get told what plane to fly, where to fly it from and where to fly it to, and what to do with it when you get there mentality. Couple this with the waiting for 30+ minutes while the CMs get everything assigned (not a bag CMs, I know how hard it is to get these things off the ground with what you have to work with, and I thank you for the effort.), and the one life to live, and many pilots don't think it's worth it.
Think about this:
An Historical arena, that is rotated every 6 weeks or so. People can plan there own missions, hold there own squad events, and fly a set plane-set, but with more than just one or two planes to choose from. As for a "rolling plane set" I think that you can start it off with the earlier planes on each side, then after a week or two add some Middle-war aircraft, then a couple weeks later add the rest for each side. Or even perk the late war planes (but I still don't like the current perk system).
I don't think there's anything to lose by trying that type of setup. If it's a bust, then just take it down after a few months and go in a different direction.
Muttz
332 Flying Mongrels
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Just sayin', but...
The reason I don't show up for the weekend historical events is because they are held at a bad time for me. I did make a special effort for Hostile Shores, and managed to attend 3 of the frames.
I've been showing up for the Friday night snapshots most of the time, but this last Friday there wasn't one, and no one even answered my post asking why.
Shrug. A HA doesn't really appeal to me, but occasional historical events held in the evening would.
anRky
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The thing that is missed is that everyone could have an HA every single night... just log into the dueling arena and designate sides. Yes, there are issues, such as a historical map and scores, but if the immersion is the draw then it could happen. I have said many times before, if you show a need the need will be provided for. As yet, we have people who yell for things, yet once the means for addressing the needs are provided we don't follow through.
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I see what you're saying, Greg. But I can't see how the scenarios are going to improve if people don't support them - they'll just fade away. Why should people give up their time to write scenarios if no-one turns up?
As for not liking being told what to fly - I thought the reason people want an HA is realism? I was under the impression WW2 was a military affair. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
The reason I don't show up for the weekend historical events is because they are held at a bad time for me.
Same here really. Friday events are out for me (it's at 3am I my time, I think) and 8pm on a saturday night is a bit anti-social. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) But if I'm online at the time of an event, I'll invariably join it.
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"their tremendous service record in the war and all.....
Ah, the NEW (latest?) standard?
So oft repeated desire for the ME-163 should be totally ignored, right? After all, it had almost no effect.
One source (http://www.thirdcoast.org/featured.html#ME%20163) puts it this way:
"Throughout its career the ME 163 received credit for only seven kills and two probables."
If this is wrong, I'm sure the experts that even know Hitler's hat size will correct it.
So no Komet, correct?
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Originally posted by Toad:
"their tremendous service record in the war and all.....
Ah, the NEW (latest?) standard?
So oft repeated desire for the ME-163 should be totally ignored, right? After all, it had almost no effect.
One source (http://www.thirdcoast.org/featured.html#ME%20163) puts it this way:
"Throughout its career the ME 163 received credit for only seven kills and two probables."
If this is wrong, I'm sure the experts that even know Hitler's hat size will correct it.
So no Komet, correct?
Yes toad, By that standard, more than just the 163 would be nixed. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)