Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funked on May 10, 2001, 06:59:00 AM
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I don't think we should see any situational pictures in-flight. Give the pilot a map of the terrain only.
Replace the current sci-fi map functions with the following:
1. Command ".fix XX" where XX is a friendly base number. A text buffer message will then give him direction and distance to that base.
2. Command ".gci XX" which gives him a text message with distance, direction, and altitude on the nearest bandit which shows up on the radar of friendly base XX.
3. The system should give a message like "Base XX is under attack!" if enemy ground, air, or sea units come within visual range of the base.
Those three would adequately replace the current clipboard map with tools which are a lot closer to what a real WWII pilot had at his disposal than the current AWACS datalink vertical situation display baloney. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'd love to use these for scenarios and for some kind of arena for experts. And I think they would work just fine in a lowest-common-denominator arena like the MA.
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PS:
1. I don't think these are all original ideas, and I don't take credit or ownership of them.
2. The current map functions would still be available to players in the tower, except for the sector bars, upon which I wish eternal damnation. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I would like that Ideas too, funked. On the sector bars, I think they are on a revamping process. I concur with you that the current situation is BAD, but they are not bad per se.
In my opinion, bar counters not directly related with actual number of planes in sector would be much better.
I think something like some fuzzy (something like, for instance 5 possible dots grading from 0-none to 5-lots (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ) indication about enemy presence (using different colours for ground and air contacts- say red and orange), of course only over controlled or contested land (not in enemy's hands), and no indication whasoever of NOE flights would replicate quite well "ground intelligence" and will be an improvement over no sector bars at all.
Cheers,
Pepe
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Interesting ideas funked.
But it would never work I tell ya! I need my dot dar and I neeed my bar dar, cause, well, you know, it's just practically impossible to find a fight!
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Hell yes! How could I forget that....where can I find a fite! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Btw, anyone has seen my glasses around, lately?
Cheers,
Pepe
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heck... no trouble at all finding a group of enemy somethings from the tower. course... after the 10 minute flight there... it won't be much like wht you seen when you left. I've watched the red bar dissapear half way to the fite as it is.
You guys need an "historical" arena where all your good ideas can be implemented and the real elite players can congregate away from the riff raff.
lazs
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Certainly would make it a lot harder to find those fighter hangers in my stratobuff....
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<snicker> HB
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A channel 6 that gives streams intercept commands for the sector you are in and the secors agacent.
6< Contact A13 6,6,2 bearing 210 angles 16
6< Contact A14 6,7,8 bearing 200 angles 10
/.int a13
Host< Intercept A13, steer 188 35 miles.
Host< Perks A13, Fail -5, Success + 10 Accept?
/.acc a13
6< mission started.
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If a pilot in the BoB took off from Biggin Hill, were they only informed of the enemy aircraft in the immediate area of Biggin Hill?
No. There was a centralized network setup that directed pilots to where they were needed, regardless of where they tookoff from, not only withing a 25 mile radius of their base.
This sounds like another attempt at realism that isn't realistic in the slightest, it is vastly less powerful than what was available historically.
It seems that nearly every suggestion for realism is in fact actually a suggestion to make it harder than it really was.
funked,
Nice try, but I think it needs significant reworking.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Originally posted by Karnak:
It seems that nearly every suggestion for realism is in fact actually a suggestion to make it harder than it really was.
Agree somewhat. There are a lot of suggestions made under the "realism" banner that should actually march under the "gameplay difficulty level" flag.
Perhaps some people get really good at the game and want to make it tougher. That's fine. I don't think suggestions to do that should masquerade as "realism" unless they actually are.
Just my .02.
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Sorry, text messages giving radar vectors are simply much closer to what the real dudes had than the AWACS display. If you can't see that then you aren't thinking it through completely.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-10-2001).]
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Too much text, would get in the way of radio calls. I really dont want my text buffer going crazy all the time.
I have to agree with karnak on this one.
LaVa
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LaVa and Karnak,
If I understood funked's idea properly, It would not crowd radio messages. Let's put it this way. Instead of dot command, let's use the clipboard.
Clipboard real time info is only sector counters showing enemy cons 500+ AGL over friendly or contested land. Combine it with MANDOBLE's idea about static delayed Dot radar images. You ask for a Computer Generated radar report (not your fellow countrymen), your FE generates a Dot snapshot which shows Dots on a given moment, static image. Then you click a dot, and a message (either on the radio chat or a popup window gives you vector, and possibly altitude, to intercept). If you want to fly to a certain base, click on that base, and gives you heading and actual contidions of such airfield. If you want accurate real time Radar information, you need someone manning the country's Radar Station. There you have centralised war room.
So not cramped communications, but a closer simulation about actual information flow during WWII.
Cheers,
Pepe
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Funked,
I'm not say that what we have is the best thing we could have or that it is realistic, but it is just as realistic as what you suggest.
You are suggesting something that would provide far less info than what historical pilots had.
Hell, the dot radar that we have doesn't even provide altitude, some that ground control did provide in WWII.
How many newbies have you helped, or tried to help, understand how to change radio frequency to their countries channel? Or understand dot commands?
Its a pain in the bellybutton and they frequently still don't get itafter 30 mins of trying.
There are plenty of accounts of single engined fighters being guided onto single cons at night. That is something that would be entirely impossible using you're proposed system.
The problem I have with the anti-radar guys is that they talk as if having ANY radar is a consession to gameplay and we should in fact have no radar whatsoever. I think a lot of the radar ideas presented so far would be very successful in driving off casual players.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Funked,
How about this modification of your proposed system?
Replace the current map functions with the following:
1. Radio messages come from the HQ, just as they came from a central control point in the BoB.
2. Command ".gci" would give him the distance, direction, altitude and speed of the of the nearest bandit, with distance rounded to miles, direction to either 5 or 10 degree increments, altitude to angels and speed to 25mph increments. Command ".gci XX" would give him the distance, direction, altitude and speed of the of the nearest bandit, with distance rounded to miles, direction to either 5 or 10 degree increments, altitude to angels and speed to 25mph increments, which shows up on the radar of friendly base XX. The radar resolution would be about 2 miles. Once within two miles of the bandit the GCI would simply inform the pilot that they cannot separate his contact from the enemy contact. GCI updates would only be available every 30 seconds.
3. The system should give a message like "Base XX reports enemy units in visual range!" if enemy ground, air, or sea units come within visual range of the base. The system should give a message like "Base XX is under attack!" if enemy ground, air, or sea units cause damage to the base.
I think this would be much more realistic than only providing pilots 25 miles of radar coverage. I don't think that HTCs servers would like the increased packet requirements or that the servers would particularly like maintaining a database of the spatial relationship of all the units online.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-10-2001).]
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Karnak that sounds great.
I just want to move it away from the horizontal situation display that you can keep open while fighting to maneuver your way around a dogfight.
However I still don't like the "you are here" map. It's really pretty easy to find your way around. The best a real pilot could get (assuming he had zero nav skills) was a bearing to a friendly base.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-10-2001).]
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Originally posted by funked:
PS:
1. I don't think these are all original ideas, and I don't take credit or ownership of them.
2. The current map functions would still be available to players in the tower, except for the sector bars, upon which I wish eternal damnation. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
disclaimer contimnued: available for a limited time only, not valid where prohibited by law, one per customer please, sorry tennessee! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
seriously - sounds cool - anything would be worth testing for a tour. if it sucks we can change it.
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Click on a map sector:
"Sector 14.9 reports 5 enemy aircraft, 2 enemy ground vehicles"
Radar cons show for that sector only (if ground radar is operational in that sector).
[This message has been edited by Thirdup (edited 05-10-2001).]
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In regards to Funked's first suggestion of navigating via text commands and map, we already have a system inplace for "manual" navigation.
Simply put, the naval gun targeting system would be perfect for navigation without the multi-directional icon (you could even leave it, but not show the facing direction anymore)
Click on a place on the map and you get a bearing and distance. Perhaps a baby step in working towards a little more realistic navigation system. You could consider it ground contact information with radio beacon vectors (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I'd like to see any of these ideas tried out, just for some variation.
Or simply lose dot dar when you're flying. Sector bar would be enough to tell you the general area of a fight, or where there is a fight.
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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Originally posted by funked:
Sorry, text messages giving radar vectors are simply much closer to what the real dudes had than the AWACS display. If you can't see that then you aren't thinking it through completely.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-10-2001).]
Well thats all fine and good..but is it possible that most folks like the map/clipboard and all the help it gives at the stroke of a key/mouse click. Just maybe most folks like all these features that facilitate gameplay. I would never want to sacrifice the flight models or anything that would alter the AC from their historical state. I kinda like the auto trim for speed, angle, the clipboarb ( genious idea, makes it easy at a glance),..etc.. Yes it has spoiled me that I can look at the clipboard and see I am in safe shape and go fix my snack and drink. I know I can just conitinue to climbout while I get that all important snack or mandatory Bathroom break done.
(http://home.nc.rr.com/ammo/public.html/ammo_sig1.JPG) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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Just lose the dar. ALL the dar. We've all played with our HQ slagged and no dar at all. Makes the game better, imo.
And I've seen absolutely no one having problems finding a fight under those circumstances.