Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Pongo on July 05, 2003, 05:19:29 PM
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Just finished the true story of Bravo Two Zero.
So with that and "Bravo Two Zero" and "The one that got away" the story is I think complete. If you have only read the first one...read the trilogy!
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I think i might just do that.
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Yep you have to read them in that order. :)
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It's kinda like the film Rashomon. :)
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Bravo Two Zero the story of that Brit SAS unit that almost got wiped out in the 1st Gulf War?
ack-ack
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Yes.
The three books are:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440218802
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1574881566
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0304365548
They should be read in that order for maximum entertainment value.
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I saw a special they had about it on the Discovery Channel last month and saw the movie just the other night on cable. Incredible story.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I saw a special they had about it on the Discovery Channel last month and saw the movie just the other night on cable. Incredible story.
ack-ack
Did you see the two programmes also on Bravo 20 - one by an ex SAS sergeant who retraced the steps of the patrol and interviewed the Iraqi's and the other with the SAS Sergeant Major of the Squadron at the time?
Very interesting - basically most of the claims of fighting and casualties were fabricated both in 20 and The one that got away.
Obviously the stroy was "sexed up" to use the local venacular as it was felt that originally it wasn't exciting enough - SAS are not supermen and very basic mistakes were made by the patrol - not having maps of the area, not having radio that could comm with base, not taking cold weather gear, wearing new boots on an op, refusing to take advice of senior nco's that they should be mobile in vehicles rather than on foot, not pulling out as soon as they realised how poor the cover was on the ground - as a second patrol did.
Personally I feel that the SAS have been poorly served by the publicity surrounding the unit - however what the patrol and it's member's went through and survived should be enough without embellishing the truth with nonsense of fighting off hundreds or Iraqi's in apc's in some sort of Ramboesque version of reality.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
SAS are not supermen and very basic mistakes were made by the patrol - not having maps of the area, not having radio that could comm with base, not taking cold weather gear, wearing new boots on an op, refusing to take advice of senior nco's that they should be mobile in vehicles rather than on foot, not pulling out as soon as they realised how poor the cover was on the ground - as a second patrol did.
Yeah i dont think it was there fault though, they were put in the gulf to get a job done.
I blame the high commanders of the MOD that ordered them out there with no land vehicles, not much equipment and inserted them only a little distance away from a local village which got them comprimised.
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A few websites based on the SAS, none of them are official because the SAS hasnt really got an official site so the info might not be 100% correct, still interesting though.
http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/sas.htm (http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/sas.htm)
http://britishsas.8m.com/ (http://britishsas.8m.com/)
http://home.hccnet.nl/22.sas/ (http://home.hccnet.nl/22.sas/)
http://www.stuff.themutual.net/sasindex.htm (http://www.stuff.themutual.net/sasindex.htm)
http://hem.passagen.se/inlajn/?noframe (http://hem.passagen.se/inlajn/?noframe)
http://users.mildura.net.au/users/phil/sas1.htm (http://users.mildura.net.au/users/phil/sas1.htm)
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another good book about the SAS is CQB (close quarters battle)
It's a biography of a guy named Mike Curtis, he takes you through his days in 2 Para during the falklands at Goose Green, training for the SAS, Desert storm, and beyond.
ISBN is 0-552-14465-7 if anyone wants to check it out.
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Aces, you should read the books. Sounds like you only read the first one.
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I read the book last month.
I now have much less sympathy for the Iraqi's who complained about being "mistreated" after capture than I did before.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Just finished the true story of Bravo Two Zero.
So with that and "Bravo Two Zero" and "The one that got away" the story is I think complete. If you have only read the first one...read the trilogy!
Eye of the Storm by Pete Ratcliffe also could be added to that lot...
Having read all those, who do you believe?
The Real Bravo 2 Zero makes a compelling case imo.
Tronsky
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Originally posted by AcesGun
I blame the high commanders of the MOD that ordered them out there with no land vehicles, not much equipment and inserted them only a little distance away from a local village which got them comprimised.
Read the third book in my links above. It seems these decisions were not entirely the fault of MOD, but were choices made by McNab.
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Originally posted by -tronski-
Eye of the Storm by Pete Ratcliffe also could be added to that lot...
Having read all those, who do you believe?
The Real Bravo 2 Zero makes a compelling case imo.
Tronsky
WHen I had only read bravo two zero and having been in the infantry and spent alot of time humping rucks. The book really didnt make scense. And the body counts he gave really were not substanciated by the story he told. But "The true story" where the battalion of Iraqis turns out to be 3 Bedouins. One lame, one with a bolt action rifle..Neither of them hurt. man that was priceless.
In thier after action report to the Regiment they said in the whole patrol they had only come under light contact. period. All the rest of it was made up.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Did you see the two programmes also on Bravo 20 - one by an ex SAS sergeant who retraced the steps of the patrol and interviewed the Iraqi's and the other with the SAS Sergeant Major of the Squadron at the time?
Very interesting - basically most of the claims of fighting and casualties were fabricated both in 20 and The one that got away.
Obviously the stroy was "sexed up" to use the local venacular as it was felt that originally it wasn't exciting enough - SAS are not supermen and very basic mistakes were made by the patrol - not having maps of the area, not having radio that could comm with base, not taking cold weather gear, wearing new boots on an op, refusing to take advice of senior nco's that they should be mobile in vehicles rather than on foot, not pulling out as soon as they realised how poor the cover was on the ground - as a second patrol did.
Personally I feel that the SAS have been poorly served by the publicity surrounding the unit - however what the patrol and it's member's went through and survived should be enough without embellishing the truth with nonsense of fighting off hundreds or Iraqi's in apc's in some sort of Ramboesque version of reality.
I just saw the one where they interviewed the one guy that made it to Syria and it was told from his point of view.
Why the trilogy of the books? Three different version of the same incident?
Ack-Ack
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No there was Bravo 20, then The one that got away but then there were tow other published later - Bravo 20 the true story and Eye of the Storm - the later two being written by an ex SAS sergeant and the S/Major of the SAS at the time.
The later two books refute many of the facts of Bravo20 - and The one that got away - specifically in the amount of contact the patrol and the escapee had with the enemy forces.
Someone obviously felt that they had to exaggerate the story so that the masses of enemy turned out to be three farmers with a rifle as stated above.
Two of the team died of hypothermia, 1 got away after evading for a week and walking to Syria, one was killed by local policemen after a firefight and the rest gave themselves up - after which time they were interrogated and from their own accounts tortured.
However since the rest of the story has large holes in it one has to wonder how much of the torture is true - they all survived capture which is the most dangerous time of surrendering - especially to what were basically militia.
The Bravo20 true story was on TV - actually showed the terrain and their exact positions, inteviewed the Iraqi farmers and the policeman involved - was pretty interesting. They were lucky to come up against civilised people - many parts of the world they'd have been killed when trying to surrender.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Read the third book in my links above. It seems these decisions were not entirely the fault of MOD, but were choices made by McNab.
I agree.
In fact some evidence seems to suggest that McNab wanted to make it hard on purpose, was looking to do something spectacular.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)