Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: -kier- on November 20, 1999, 01:07:00 PM
-
My apologies if this has already been mentioned elsewhere...
Last night we (Bishops) were attempting to take F7. We did a good job of eliminating the threat, and were suppressing fighters. We brought in our C47's, made the drops, and the troops landed. How did one Rook respond? He entered a C47, parked on runway and dumped his troops, effectively recapturing the field. What made matters worse was his blatant statement on open channel, bragging "how easy" it was to thwart capture.
Please, in next release, disable friendly troop drop on runway. If he wants to climb into a C47 and circle the field, fine. But, as with the runway ackstars, this one is an example of "gaming the game".
-
You should have knocked out the target at the base that enables troops at that field, im not sure what its called but killing it eliminates that instant recapture thing.
Dotsie.
-
barrecks(sp?)
-
A Bishop did the same thing at f21 a couple days ago; 3 times too, the bastard (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Whoever it was must have been ROFLOL at us poor Rooks quite a bit.
-
Does he wait to drop the troops until after capture?
HiTech
-
No they were being dropped continuous as the capture was attempted. I squeaked along with everyone else, until it was pointed out that barracks destruction would eliminate this problem.
Is that true?
If so it would almost make sense. Better yet will be when I can run out of the barracks and go hand to hand with the incoming troops ;-)
-
The first episodes of this I saw were started by the bishcuits. I even suggested doing that at one point a few weeks ago and was promptly admonished by my countrymen about how lame and dweeb-ish it was. I believe it was also the bishcuits that started the mess of sitting on the runways in a B-17 after all the acks at the field had been taken down.
And yes, killing the barracks will prevent a gooney bird from launching with a load of drunks. Dinnae if ya gotta kill both barracks on the field or not though.
HT-
All the times I've seen the bishcuits do it they've waited until after the field was captured. As juzz mentioned, a bishcuit did that two or three nights ago at field 21, but I think it was more like 5 times instead of 3. There would be the 'Host: Field 21 captured by Rooks' message, and we'd all do the "WTG 21" messages, then a minute or later would come 'Host: Field 21 captured by Bishops" and we'd all be cussin about it.
------------------
Air power is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base. - Hoffman Nickerson
[This message has been edited by 214CaveJ (edited 11-20-1999).]
-
I Have seen this conversation once before (well, in the arena tho), but my opinion back then was that it is not bug or cheating, if there are still 2 barrack buildings up (could destroy those easily, even with guns, so far)
Let me explain why I don't think its wrong:
Lets take an example of base, which has to be captured.
It has barracks buildings and other still up, just air defences are destroyed and paratroopers are ordered to capture them.
Paratroopers are being dropped nearby the base area, guards spots them and calls alarm, people runs out of barracks and elsewhere to defending positions, byebye paratroopers, or at least delay with casualties.
Another example, with same situation but barracks and such buildings which supports soldiers etc. are destroyed.
Paratroopers are being dropped nearby base area and guards spots them,calls out alarm, but only a handful of soldiers comes out for defend, because of men loss, supplies loss and connections.
So on paratroopers with better chances and supplies comes and takesover the base.
No flaming please, just my opinion, not my abuse (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
The question is whether or not this is an intended feature, not who started it first. As I fly for all sides I couldn't care less where it began.
If this is intended, then I won't complain. As HiTech was curious of the timing of the event, I suspect that it is something that needs to be looked at...
-
that's a pretty good storyline for this particular event Fish, and I can see captures happening like that. Thinking like that makes the barracks buildings more important to the overall strategy of capturing fields
------------------
Air power is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base. - Hoffman Nickerson
-
Would make more sense to make sure that troopers from base A could not capture base A. Only troops from another base, can capture base A.
Mino
-
This tactic is nothing new. As far as I know (and seen) its been around a long time in Brand W. Just like stick stirring, this launching troops from a transport that hasn't even turned on it engines let alone gotten in the air has found its way here too
------------------
-floo- fangs out
463rd Bomb Group
15th Air Force
-
I'll be change one thing in the capture proccess to fix this. Ill just have the acks restored at the base upon capture.
HiTech
-
Fix what??
You drop drunks on a base with ack up THEY DIE!!! The ack kills them RIGHT?
You drop troops on a base with BARRACKS up
The base troops are ALIVE, they should be able to kill drunks. This is a sim not a game.
The error here is the drunks are given free
run to capture with ack down but base troops
are weaponless if ack down. BIG ERROR.
Takes the reality out of the sim
You want your drunks to capture with out harm? COMPLETELY silence the opposition.
THe fix should be plane must leave ground to activate troop release.
Instant ack on capture is not real
-
HT, I'd propose a slightly different solution if it's just going to be an enabling of ack at capture...
If you have all of them pop up at once, that's somewhat dweebish in my always humble opinion. Specifically, if it's a well pitched battle (read: furball <sigh> ), and all those acks come up, anyone who gets caught over the field will take some nasty hits. I'm just not sure that's realistic.
Why couldn't you have one ack only come up, and have Otto place priority on the nme troops on the ground? Otto's lethality is currently such that you'd be able to nail a few of the troops if they were on the ground. If they were in a sitting transport, Otto would have an easy time with a close, non-moving target.
But what do I know, I never bother with that low altitude furballin and base capture stuff... All I do is escort my peeps, and enjoy 400 KTAS speeds at 45 InHg... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
blk (AT)
-
Thanks HiTech!
-
AW won't let you drop troops from below 500 feet agl. Seems reasonable to me.
------------------
grizzly
-
I'm not sure the ack solution will work. You can recapture a field immediately using a 47 on the runway, true, but you can also use the 47's troops to negate the para...hence no base capture, and no immediate ack. For example, paras drop and start running toward map room. 47 on the runway drops, and all these soldiers go running to the map room and cancell eachother out.
Happened tonight, and was perty dang frustrating coordinating pilots for a capture (sometimes a 45 minute undertaking)only to see this 47 pop up again and again. Two fighters went winch just trying to supress him. And of course, we didn't get the capture.
If I'd read this thread earlier I'd have known to bomb the barracks. I just figured that killin' barracks was meant to disable launching a takeover of another feild from that base. My bad I guess. But it still strikes me as a very dweebish thing to do.
The guy in the 47's reply was something to the effect of "now you know how it feels". Honest enough answer I suppose, but I just hope that some kinda fix here would save us *all* the frustration.
End of rant.. sorry... it happened ten minutes ago. I'll get over it, I promise (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
simple fix-
have your buff driver drop an egg on the barracks or have your fighters covering the field strafe the buildings and blow them up
------------------
Air power is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base. - Hoffman Nickerson
-
I posted this earlier in a different thread but it has some relavence here. I watched a scene unflold this evening at field 3 where the Bishop forces had (5) plus B-17's (6) plus Fighters and (3) plus C-47's. I watched from the destroyed tower as the Knight planes were straffed by fighters and raked by Ackstaring 17's. After watching many pilots die countless Vulching deaths then came the C-47's. I watched them drop there troops and I timed my appearance on the runway just as they had a headstarton the ground. I watched the field go to the Bishops and then right after that the field was retaken by the Knights as my troops went in. The ack came up shortly there after and many Bishops at low altitude died. On one hand it seemed a cheap defense but considering the way in which it was attacked I felt little shame. If the both barracks had been hit by the Bishop force it would have resolved the issue. I am not sure it should be changed. I also checked my score and I did not get a field capture as I had to exit (ditch) or be killed by ackstars. I would not have thought to do this but I captured a rook base this morning and it happened to me also. There are other things that might be concidered here as well. for instance, currently having a B-17 take out two or three acks at a field and a C-47 buddy drop a load while just a few are on is very easy. I think if there are just a few on that the C-47 tactic may have some merit and should be left. The key is to kill the barracks and then this won't happen. A buff going around with 24 100 lbs bombs killing acks from 30K and a C-47 hopping rear fields is equally gaming. Lets give it some thought. At first when it happened to me I was really hacked!! When i gave it some thought I modified my possition somewhat.
Thunder
-
I am all for simulating a ground war, even if in a rudimentary fashion for now. This isn't specifically a ground war simulator, but it must be admitted that the necessity of having paratroops (read: ground troops) storm the map room for base capture is at least a step in that direction. If the sim goes even that far to simulate ground battles, I think it's more than a bit unlikely that the paratroops could take the base without meeting heavy oppostition. It aint a buncha girl scouts keeping the base secure from invasion. Wouldn't a couple platoons of soldiers storm out the barracks and kill anyone who dares step foot in their base? Yes, they would. But since it is not a ground war sim, and realistic ground engagments aren't part of the picture, I think its an equitable compromise to conclude that bases shouldn't be able to be taken unless the barracks are down.
I propose that in order for a base to be captured, the defensive possibilites of the base must be destroyed. This includes AAA and FLAK (as yet to be implemented) for the airborne threat, and the Barracks for the paratrooper/ground threat. If the barracks are up when paratroops are released, they should be mowed down mercilessly. In my opinion, the fact that the airborne base defenders have to launch their own paratroops to counter the enemy is a redundant and unnecessary step. It should be no problem at all for HiTech and crew to code in a fix whereby the barracks must be destroyed before base capture is a persuasive possibility.
------------------
Swoosh of the Skeleton Crew
edited for ubb code italics
[This message has been edited by Swoosh (edited 11-27-1999).]
-
Here's my take on the situation. I personally think the ability for a base to deploy troops to defend itself against incoming hostile troops is a great feature. We have ack to defend against air threats, why not have ground forces to defend against enemy ground units. Any airbase so close to enemy lines would be foolish not to have some troops for the purpose of warding off an enemy attack. Now these troops are not automatically deployed, you have to do it yourself which adds to the strategy of the whole thing. I would like to eventually see where you have to actually deploy troops to repair the ack once you have capped a field. I mean if you all want to voice your opinions on reality, they sure aren't going to fix themselves. Ok, Ok, we have to draw a line somewhere so we'll have the runways auto-repair themselves. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
So in short, if you want to drop troops on an enemy base and you don't want those troops to be meet by hostile ground troops, then kill the enemy troops before sending in your guys. After you confirm that the ack is down at a base your next question should be how about the barracks?
btw, I have not been in the right place at the right time to deploy troops on the ground.
Nite
-
why not go for the good 'ol AW solution for this problem?
One can't capture a Base unless ALL bildings are down (which would include barracks)
and you have to drop more than 1 load on them (2 at least) from a minimum of 500 feet.
you could change that a bit that for each building still up you have to fly in more goons so you could capture a bas that has only the acks down with say 5-6 goons
SC-Duckwing6
-
I think that if you try to take a field with barracks up, then it is your problem if it gets immediately retaken! I don't recall any historical situations where bombers only hit AAA threats before sending in the troops.
-
I also think that there should be a point that a field can't be defended well. Case in point! Tonight a field was totally destroyed and 3 C-47's and 10 fighters were over the field. Four bombers completly took out all targets at the field. One pilot who I will not mention, but I'm sure Nath29 knows who it was, repeatedly took off and HO'd and killed everything not worring about how many times he was killed. He had a short distance to go and 10 fighters having to replane still could not keep him down fast enough and or ran out of ammunition. It was a brave fight but there is no way 1 pilot should continually take off in 40 fresh new planes every 15 seconds!!! Another thing that seemed very odd was he was in a spitfire and won HO duels against 190's almost every time??? I for one am very frustrated with the current field capture in general. I think when you stategically disable a field it should not allow limitless planes to come up even if they are fuel limited. Maybe HiTech could hold down the frequency of planes launching after all down. This would accomplish a resonable reward for a lot of effort expended by so many. Just as you can't continue to get troops right away from a field that the barracks are downed. So should the number or frequency of planes being able to launch from the feild if all strat targets are down. I have noticed that after we take a field that has just be captured you can't get troops right away until the strat targets cycled to rebuilt status. I think that the number of planes that a country can get up from a freshly taken field should be limited in the same way as well. This would account for a proper damage model and a better playabilty factor.
Thunder
-
So, some folks are willing to justify pulling out under heavy enemy fire a C47 with an invasion force and deploying it on their own field to thwart a coordinated assault, but object to people doing the same with spitfires?
Maybe we just need to do away with field capture strat altogether.
BTW, I don't think a carefully coordinated low-profile attack on a rear field is "gaming the game". OTOH, I don't find these Bomb-carrying U-2s at 40,000 feet legitimate either. Come on, it's cold up there.
-
One way to fix this is to not allow troop release while on the ground. Yeah, it prevents the land and deploy option, but this would cause me no heartburn. Anyone else pro/con to this idea?
Jarbo
of the Buccaneers
[This message has been edited by jarbo (edited 11-30-1999).]
-
Dinger,
The point I was trying to make about the spitfire incident was in the first sentence!
I also think that there should be a point that a field can't be defended well. If a ll targets are intirely destroyed it seems hard for me to understand how good gameplay is accomplished by having the efforts of 10 to 14 players be negated by 1 if all targets are down. Not only is it poor gameplay but its not realistic. After thinking about this some more, I think the solution is .... when you have taken down whatever targets are at a field.....THE FIELD IS CLOSED! As for justifying the C-47 troops the logic is the same...the barracks were not down. I agree with you that a carefully coordinated attack on a rear field is not "gaming the game!" My intent in regard to rear field field captures was that it should be harder for just 2 players to capture several fields at a time then by simply dropping on 2-3 acks and sneaking in a C-47 while the two countries are having a bloodbath on there borders. And make no mistake!!.... I am all for field capture strat, and strat damage! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Respectfully,
Thunder
-
Agree with Thunder here. If 25 planes show up at your field, it should close (as long as they are doing their job). One plane shouldn't be able to respawn and mow down drunks on the runway. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)