Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Furball on July 10, 2003, 04:18:25 AM
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I have noticed many many people getting frustrated and tired of this game. Seems that many people have cancelled their account already, and many others are considering to do so :(
Anyone have any ideas how to make this game fun again so we don't lose more people? without the need for a huge patch (as of course HTC are working on AH2)
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An whine has been recorded.
Actually i think HTC has better stats than any on how many that signs up and how many that quits...
Anyone have any ideas how to make this game fun again so we don't lose more people? without the need for a huge patch (as of course HTC are working on AH2)
You could take an break during the summertime and come back winter time and i will ensure you that you will enjoy AH again.
We have seen the numbers drop every summer............
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Lately I've seen lots of newbies. ( at least in rook side)
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Maybe a contest for the best mapmakers?
If that isnt too much work besides AH2.
Ecke
PS:
I guess HTC dont care much about frustrated or tired vets.
As long as there are more newbie-subscribtions than cancelling vets, the world is ok for HTC.
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Originally posted by Maniac
An whine has been recorded.
Actually i think HTC has better stats than any on how many that signs up and how many that quits...
You could take an break during the summertime and come back winter time and i will ensure you that you will enjoy AH again.
We have seen the numbers drop every summer............
wow, what i do to pee you off?? was a simple question about how we can make AH more interesting before the arrival of AH2, and i wasnt whining. Did i say i was thinking of quitting? no, am i disappointed about seeing people i like quitting or taking a extended break? yes
go back and re read my original post, seems you misinterpreted it.
And Ecke thats a good idea, i have tried using the map maker once, but failed dismally :) but im sure the introduction of new maps would kickstart some enthusiasm, we need something like the 'frenchy award' but for map makers!
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Anyone have any ideas how to make this game fun again so we don't lose more people? without the need for a huge patch (as of course HTC are working on AH2)
Ok, sorry...
Heres my suggestion on how to make AH 1 more fun, take an break during the summer, enjoy the things summer brings with it and then come back after the summer to AH, i can guarantee that you will enjoy AH again after an 1-2 month breake...
Regards.
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Many Finnish AH pilots are away during summer time....
"Pekka and Mikko meet after Finnish summer.
Mikko: How was your summer?
Pekka: I dont remember. I was too drunk both days.."
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I canceled my account a while ago becuase i couldnt stand AH anymore.... Im not fully back but i do come on sometimes on a friends account and i enjoy it alot more now for these simple reason..
1) My connection is better than it used to be
2) I got my glasses now, so i can see what im shooting at
3) Friends tell me i may be going a little insane, So i dont really care what happens anymore....
These 3 reasons are good enough for me..And they help when i do log on Main arena when i get the chance...
just a off note.... I like Cheese
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lol xjazz,
i guess, the finnish drink so much because they need to defense against all that mosquitos.
But by the time they (the mosquitos) got addicted. And now they are sucking more and more. ;)
Ecke
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like this Ecke ?
http://66.227.96.16/humour/Anim/211.mpeg
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Originally posted by Xjazz
Pekka and Mikko meet after Finnish summer.
Mikko: How was your summer?
Pekka: I dont remember. I was too drunk both days.."
That's hilarious! The Finns have a very good sense of humor. ;)
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Originally posted by Furball
Anyone have any ideas how to make this game fun again so we don't lose more people?
If you've been flying for awhile and are getting bored, its time to graduate from the "top tier" airplanes: LA-7, Spit IX, N1k2, P-51D, Typhoon, 190D.
Flying the F4U-1, 109G10, FW190A8, P-51B, and FM2 can be fun and challenging.
And when they get boring, you can fly the P40E, Ki-61, C.205, F4F, 109F, 190A(x), and A6M(x) for even greater challenges. You can also dogfight in an A-20 for kicks.
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DoctorYO <---- Currently on his break...
Planetside, MagicTheGathering, Pirates of the Carribean(Sea Dogs 2)
Had some interest to play the other day, when I saw the Frenchy Award.. then I read the fine print, No D11 wtf... any JUG pilot worth his salt knows the Razorback is the most fun to fly... archaic and deadly..
Instead we get some Brazilian POS (before you flame out, im joking)
heave fun fellas..
Planetside Calls...
DoctorYO
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I think HTC has much more detailed information regarding the current state of the player base than we do.
I cant say Im not frustrated too, but come on guys... many of you have been playing this game for years and the first time you dont get what you want when you want it you cry foul? Wheres the loyalty?
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If you really want to develope a good player base, a loyal player base then HiTech should have flown AIr Warrior. Yeah, yeah, you guys we on the War Birds development team, and got smart enough to leave and create AH.
However, what you failed to learn, is how to make a game fun. WB isnt that fun, the graphics still bite.....
AW had the most loyal group of customers (ok pilots for the undeducated ).. sure we would get tikced off at GS, EA, or even AOL and quit... then in a week be right back apologizing to our friends as they ragged our butts.
Fun=kills. PERIOD! Create a "Relaxed Realism" version, as AW had, and let the hardcore pilot wannabe's live for FR as usual. This will get many new clients, and give the ones who are not yet skilled a place to fly, where they can do more than become points for someone else.
You asked I spoke.... I gave Mage lots of input over the years, whether he ever listened to it, who knows... LOL!
But seriously, add a RR version, and by god get the word out... Doesnt HiTech have a marketing person there? I saw one little blip in a game mag, and that's it for AH.
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Zenms,
You really need to check up on your HT history.
...and a RR arena would be the cheeze.
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Heres something else to warn HTC about. I had a hell of a lot of Taco Bell last night, just thought you should know. ;)
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I could be mistaken but I thought that Hitech and Pyro both played AW before moving on to Confirmed Kill/WarBirds.
Marketing person....Too funny; I do that as part of my job and I still find out that word of mouth/email is by far the most effective source of advertising.
Wasn't there a huge split down the middle between the FR and RR guys in AW. At least that is what I remember. So it sounds to me like you want to steer HTC down the same road that AW headed down. I don't think HTC is going to drop in a RR arena anytime soon in AH...I could be wrong but I just don't see it happening.
Not trying to knock you but I just want to know why?
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ZENMS got tired of black-outs, so he said:
Create a "Relaxed Realism" version, as AW had, and let the hardcore pilot wannabe's live for FR as usual. This will get many new clients, and give the ones who are not yet skilled a place to fly, where they can do more than become points for someone else.
I can see your reasoning, but not sure I would go along with it.
You actually address 3 things:
(a) rookies are fodder for vets - this is going to be true for any multiplayer game. My submariner buddy used to whup me in Nintendo games when I'd visit him between cruises, because he'd been playing below the ocean for months on end. An AH vet that's been playing for months shouldn't possess the same skill as a guy on his 2-week free trial period, and shouldn't find himself ham-strung by simple-to-learn airplanes. If a guy can master a game in 2 weeks, then what's the incentive to subscribe? A game should have a built-in learning curve to it; it should have room in it for player growth. Otherwise it will go stale.
(b) learning curve - AH has a good library of vehicles from which to choose. Its easy to get a Spitfire, FM2, and N1K2 into a fight and maybe even get a kill on your first flight. Learning the game commands takes a bit longer, but that's going to be true for a RR arena as well. Just because RR might take away stalls and g-force blackouts doesn't mean the basic menu system would be simpler. Besides, Spitfire, FM2, and N1K2s are the most stall-friendly planes in the group and are easy to fly. Plus, there's the anti-stall option that can be selected, plus the auto-launch from the runway and the "combat trim" feature to further reduce pilot skill requirements.
(c) hardcore vs softcore pilots - I think you'll find the hardcore guys will be flying the more challenging planes, the planes that take an intuitive skill and experience to master, such as the P-47, the 109 and 190, F4U, P-51B, P-38, C.205, Ki-61, and such. The softcore guys will fly the user-friendly planes such as the Spitfire IX, N1K2, LA-7, and P-51D. If you find your Spitfire IX getting smacked down by a clown-tailed Ki-61, then you know you just got bested by a vet.
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Ahh, Finnish drinking jokes are the best.
In 1940, the day after Bodoe (my home town) was bombed, Pekka and Toyvonen wakes up in the ruins of a bar. After clearing a path through the rubble, they sagger out on the street and see the devestation ...
(http://museumsnett.no/nordlandsmuseet/grafikk/fotosamling/9050-114.jpg)
... After a long moment of silence Toyvonen whispers: "Pekka ... I don't think we can pay for this ... lets run!"
:D :D :D
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in 1-10 scale of whine i rate this thread to 20
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Originally posted by spiegel
I canceled my account a while ago becuase i couldnt stand AH anymore.... Im not fully back but i do come on sometimes on a friends account and i enjoy it alot more now for these simple reason..]/B]
"1. Use of your Account is expressly limited to you. Your Account may not be transferred to any other party, temporarily or permanently."
http://www.hitechcreations.com/htcindex.html
:p
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Originally posted by Maniac
An whine has been recorded.
A type-o has been recorded.
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I wasn't complaining about the Taco Bell. ;)
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I tend to agree with Furball, people ARE getting a bit frustrated, I include myself in this, Im getting very tired of the same old thing, I for one would like VERY much to hear how AH2 is doing, we havent even seen a bloody screenshot, even though its not that long till its supposed to be released.I find the lack of updates very depressing.
With the current map rotation scheme (which I loathe) I have to wait a lifetime till my favorite map Big Isles comes round again,along with Baltic my other favorite map,these two are probably the most realistic terrain we've had,I wont even start on the other ones.The 3 sided war has been done to death and its time it was buried.
We need something thrown at us to keep the excitement going,in this case,no news is bad news,and people will get frustrated.
You can carry on with your boring 'whine of the week' crap now.
Thats gettin real old too,this is a place to voice opinions.
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Originally posted by Joc
I tend to agree with Furball, people ARE getting a bit frustrated, I include myself in this, Im getting very tired of the same old thing, I for one would like VERY much to hear how AH2 is doing, we havent even seen a bloody screenshot, even though its not that long till its supposed to be released.I find the lack of updates very depressing.
With the current map rotation scheme (which I loathe) I have to wait a lifetime till my favorite map Big Isles comes round again,along with Baltic my other favorite map,these two are probably the most realistic terrain we've had,I wont even start on the other ones.The 3 sided war has been done to death and its time it was buried.
We need something thrown at us to keep the excitement going,in this case,no news is bad news,and people will get frustrated.
You can carry on with your boring 'whine of the week' crap now.
Thats gettin real old too,this is a place to voice opinions.
Ditto! As well as a "Double Ditto!" in regards to current map rotation scheme.
(Wonder if those targetware guys are ever going to release? This would be a good time)
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Originally posted by ZENMS
Fun=kills. PERIOD! Create a "Relaxed Realism" version, as AW had, and let the hardcore pilot wannabe's live for FR as usual. This will get many new clients, and give the ones who are not yet skilled a place to fly, where they can do more than become points for someone else.
Bob, give me yer gun.
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I heard Crimson Skies was coming out for Xbox this Christmas. They may even be gearing for a MMOG for it.
Might be a better deal for the RR guys then AH. Just a suggestion.
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Originally posted by Ecke-109-
PS:
I guess HTC dont care much about frustrated or tired vets.
As long as there are more newbie-subscribtions than cancelling vets, the world is ok for HTC.
DING DING!! You win.
It's a business folks, and money is what matters. It's not a matter of old vets, newbies and/or who HTC "cares about", it's about "what" HTC cares about.
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Originally posted by Reschke
I could be mistaken but I thought that Hitech and Pyro both played AW before moving on to Confirmed Kill/WarBirds.
Marketing person....Too funny; I do that as part of my job and I still find out that word of mouth/email is by far the most effective source of advertising.
Wasn't there a huge split down the middle between the FR and RR guys in AW. At least that is what I remember. So it sounds to me like you want to steer HTC down the same road that AW headed down. I don't think HTC is going to drop in a RR arena anytime soon in AH...I could be wrong but I just don't see it happening.
Not trying to knock you but I just want to know why?
I dunno if it was "down the middle" so much as "70/30" or so. I think when comparing AW to AH we need to remember that AW started in `87 as a very basic dos game that resembled a pared down version of it's RR arena. From there it worked UP to AWIII and ADDED "FR." With AH, it STARTED as a "beefed up" version of AW "FR" and has shown additional improvements since then.
AW didn't have that luxury in the beginning. It would have been nice. Then it would never have had the "70/30" split and additional improvements that enhanced immersion and game realism would have reflected positively on the whole customer base and not gone unnoticed (or noticed and resented by) the majority of it's customer base.
Still, I tend to agree that AW had a large number of loyal customers that stuck with it to the end. It was more due to the community involved than anything else.
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In regards to the community not being 'Fun', I believe their are two main contributors.
1. Rank on Roster. Although I believe rank and stats should be kept for the players that enjoy it, but putting it on the clipboard has brought out the worst in competitive nature within the MA. For example, if you don't have a good score and are not part of a squad (ie new) you are treated as a leper. Many 'stress out' or 'burn out' doing non-fun things just to get a decent score. Access to stats should be tower only and rank/score on the web page for those who enjoy it.
2. Vulching gameplay. This is related to the rank issue. IMO the majority of pilots log on, look for the biggest green bar and fly to the closest Vulchable field and fight 15 other pilots to spawn camp. This does not promote a 'fun' atmosphere. Faster healing ack and moving capture points further from fields may help. For each enjoyable Vulch experience, you are ruining someone elses enjoyment. This can't be good for the community in the long run.
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Originally posted by Furball
I have noticed many many people getting frustrated and tired of this game. Seems that many people have cancelled their account already, and many others are considering to do so :(
Go back into the archives of the forum and you can see posts just like yours going all the way back to the earliest days of post-beta.
The reason for this is that vets will always be whining and quitting. It's what they do. When you play a game addictively for years it is natural to get tired of it. So the most experienced and well known players are always the most likely to be frustrated.
The more you play, the better you get, the less challenge there is, and the more opportunity there is to observe flaws (or percieved flaws) in the game. Furthermore, as your death rate decreases and you become more skilled than all but a tiny fraction of arena denziens, it becomes more and more likely that your deaths will be caused by flaws (or percieved flaws) in the game than by your own mistakes or enemy action.
The only way to keep vets from eventually getting to this stage is to constantly update the game. HTC did a great job of this for 2 years and then they realized they needed to make a major change to keep this thing going. And by all accounts they are busting their tulips to make this change. Don't play it if it's not fun for you, but if you're on the fence then I would counsel patience.
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I flew AW from 95 til almost the end... missed it by 3 weeks, after many many rants to EA about shutting it down etc....
Anyway, AH is a great game, dont get me wrong. It has the most flyable FR settings I have seen. AW's FR settings were overkill, you could go into a spin by sneezing!
As for my history knowledge on AH, it is just what I was told the only time I ever had to call in on a tech support issue... as for Hi and Pyro ever fly AW, I do not know.....
I remember the first time I joined AH it looked too much like WB, cockpits of some of the planes, and they have improved that some, still have a hard time reading gagues in many of the fighters. AW had great cockpit art, for the most part.
As for a RR arena, I think it would be great, but change is part of a game, business and life. I didnt start this thread so dont think I am complaining about the game, I was just making a suggestion(S).
I flew with Arlo the other night and had lots of fun, thats what games are for. He was nice enough to explain some of the features of the game, and kill me LOL! But it was fun, and I think AH is a fun game.
I will not comment about any of the game play items that some of the others have expressed to be changed, because I do not know that much about them. What I didnt like before, when I was a subscriber, was the perk points. I still dont like that idea, but if after my two weeks, if I decide to subscribe I dont have a reason to complain. If you dont like something, email them directly, shut up, or cancel your account. You hate your long distance provider? Get a new one. Your bank charges too many sur-charges, take your money elsewhere... This game is the same thing... if you dislike something bad enough, complain to them directly, not on a MB... if they ignore you, take your $14.95 elsewhere. Simple eh?
Most AH pilots want FR, thats great! I like FR, it is more of a challenge. I also miss dogfighting in a vader! LOL! I still have to get my stick setup, figure out just where the sweet spot is for aiming, and where all the commands are.... But once I work through it all will be ok.
I still think they need to promote this game more, but there is a downside. I have been playing RTCW for the past year and a half, and then a month or so ago they released ET, a free online game only. It brought so many new players, the servers were packed with noobs. It really frustrated a lot of us (team kills out the wazzoo) but they have learned or moved on... Promoting AH would get you more people to shoot at, but then ya got people doing stupid things too..... Oh well... games go on!
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When can I be a vet?
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"2. Vulching gameplay. This is related to the rank issue. IMO the majority of pilots log on, look for the biggest green bar and fly to the closest Vulchable field and fight 15 other pilots to spawn camp. This does not promote a 'fun' atmosphere. Faster healing ack and moving capture points further from fields may help. For each enjoyable Vulch experience, you are ruining someone elses enjoyment. This can't be good for the community in the long run."
Vulching is perpetutated by those trying to up at a capped field.
Was flying at a capped field last week ... one guy must have gotten killed at least 30-40 times before he could even start his engine. It was laughable.
Making the ack heal quicker ... if there is a real vulch cap on, that ack will be dead in 15 seconds or less and the vulchfest continues. How does moving the capture point farther from the field help stop vulching ? I don't see the logic in this.
You want to stop vulching or ruin a vulchers day ? ... DON'T UP ... simple as that.
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Originally posted by Virage
1. Rank on Roster. Although I believe rank and stats should be kept for the players that enjoy it, but putting it on the clipboard has brought out the worst in competitive nature within the MA. For example, if you don't have a good score and are not part of a squad (ie new) you are treated as a leper. Many 'stress out' or 'burn out' doing non-fun things just to get a decent score. Access to stats should be tower only and rank/score on the web page for those who enjoy it.
I concur with this as a recent newbie. Though I played AW off and on from 1987 when I would sneek on with my room mates account up into the 90's when I had my own. I stopped from 99 till this year. I had a re-learning curve, was treated as an outsider by squads, and got ganged as a lone eaglelett. I did not understand the scoring system, no more than I did in AW. I just love to fly and rumble. Things like the Frenchy challange are a more constructive motivation for scoreing. Everyone who takes part wins eventually with bragging rights, stories, and just being there in that Pig Jug.
Fortunatly 2 good things happened to me in my AH experience.
1. The Free Birds Missions. The Free Birds invite everyone and make the MA a great community experience for newbiees who join their missions. Their missions are always big, lotsa fun and very well run. And the newbiees after that can hang out with anyone who has an FB on their name to get help, learn how to play AH, or get encouragment.
2. Twitchy invited me to "Pigs On The Wing". Working with a squad, I now get swamped less because we share the hoard and the killing.
I have to admit that my score may have helped me gain acceptance by vets in the MA. That sounds elitist, but as humans we unconciously keep score on everything we do in some manner. Even if AH is only virtual, Warriors tend to be more interested in hanging out with those who "Can Do", measure themselves against equals, and grow by challenging superior Warriors.
Other than knowing how many K/D I get in a night or month, what is the score for anyway? AH has a forever war. So what does the score get me besides peer acceptance, bragging rights, and some interesting philosophical discussions on human nature?
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Originally posted by ramzey
in 1-10 scale of whine i rate this thread to 20
As i said earlier, im not whining im looking for suggestions, so please, before coming in here on your high horse, read it properly. thx!
Anyone have any ideas how to make this game fun again so we don't lose more people? without the need for a huge patch (as of course HTC are working on AH2)
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Originally posted by mia389
When can I be a vet?
When yah learn all there is to know about canine enemas :D.
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Originally posted by ZENMS
If you really want to develope a good player base, a loyal player base then HiTech should have flown AIr Warrior. Yeah, yeah, you guys we on the War Birds development team, and got smart enough to leave and create AH.
However, what you failed to learn, is how to make a game fun. WB isnt that fun, the graphics still bite.....
AW had the most loyal group of customers (ok pilots for the undeducated ).. sure we would get tikced off at GS, EA, or even AOL and quit... then in a week be right back apologizing to our friends as they ragged our butts.
Fun=kills. PERIOD! Create a "Relaxed Realism" version, as AW had, and let the hardcore pilot wannabe's live for FR as usual. This will get many new clients, and give the ones who are not yet skilled a place to fly, where they can do more than become points for someone else.
You asked I spoke.... I gave Mage lots of input over the years, whether he ever listened to it, who knows... LOL!
But seriously, add a RR version, and by god get the word out... Doesnt HiTech have a marketing person there? I saw one little blip in a game mag, and that's it for AH.
So if a "relaxed version" is the way to attract people why is is that
Fighter Ace has 110 people online in the crayon room and AH has 450 in a room?
Relaxed settings are for children who confuse flight sims with first person shooters.
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Nonono .... MA will become AH's RR. ;)
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Relaxed Realism in AH?
With STALL LIMITER and COMBAT TRIM already available to whoever wants it in the arenas, WHY?
Technically its already a mixed mode arena. Those that have it enabled and those who dont.
AW and WBs had a major rift down the middle of thier communities because of the RR and RM arenas.
I think HiTech and Pyro have the right idea. One main arena, one community.
I just hope that the 2 seprate "main" arenas in AHII doent start a big rift.
At the start of AHII most everyone will fly TOD mainly because its new.
Then the groups that like the have all fight all main arena style will move to AHII CLASSIC (AHII vesion of what we have now).
The groups that want an RPG, mission oriented, historical matchup and all the other things like attrition and limited to one plane type will stay in the TOD arena.
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Ya think?
hehe ....
ahem .... (http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/aahmed/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
So if a "relaxed version" is the way to attract people why is is that
Fighter Ace has 110 people online in the crayon room and AH has 450 in a room?
Relaxed settings are for children who confuse flight sims with first person shooters.
No kidding, that's why I left fighter ace, more of an arcade game than a flight sim. I cancelled my AH account about a month ago. I got excited about a new map test room only to have the 2 year olds spoil it. That was it for me cause the game got boring. I'll be back when AH2 is available.
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Frenchy's Award was a fun thing to try for this tour ..... (but only lasted 1-2 weeks with only 100 kill cap[if someone else tries what frenchy did , you might want to consider a larger kill requirement .... 100 is just too easy :D ])
Things like this keep me intrested .. or flying 'hard' planes to live in ... like the jug :) -- I'm waiting for AHII like the rest of you , but iL2,wwiiol,WB's, etc just doesn't tickle my pickle;
Frenchy had mad fun trying to win it.
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maps are killin this game
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Originally posted by Furball
Anyone have any ideas how to make this game fun again so we don't lose more people? without the need for a huge patch (as of course HTC are working on AH2)
Well...I fly neked in the summer. Don't know if that helps, but hey, we all do what we can.
Bumba
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SALUTE TUMOR!!!
It's a business folks, and money is what matters. It's not a matter of old vets, newbies and/or who HTC "cares about", it's about "what" HTC cares about.
Alot of the "vets" here think that if HTC got an offer they couldnt refuse from lets say EA or Microsoft they wouldnt sell, its ALL about the money...
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"1. Use of your Account is expressly limited to you. Your Account may not be transferred to any other party, temporarily or permanently."
So you'd rather me pay for the entire month of Flying time, When i only log on say once or twice every month...
sorry i dont feel like wasting my money on AH.. :p
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Originally posted by airbumba
Well...I fly neked in the summer. Don't know if that helps, but hey, we all do what we can.
Bumba
ok.... now THAT makes me want to cancel my account :p