Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Fishu on November 20, 1999, 08:51:00 PM
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I Made some testing offline with speeds of fighters at 500ft (sorry, no results from higher altitudes, took already hour to test these alone).
Planes had 75% fuel, except P-51, which had 50%
Few side notes were that with no ammo fighters did go 2-8mph faster and Me109 and C.205 had IAS indicator bit ahead of TAS indicator, when other planes had IAS indicator behind TAS indicator (I did take speeds by TAS indicator)
Fw190 and P-51 did use right rudder trim bit
while on auto, others did not. (wonders me)
Cannons slowered speed more than 6x12.7mm in P-51 (even 2x20mm planes)
Heres all fighters with results (fastest to slowest):
#1 P-51D (6x12.7mm) 365mph
#2 La-5 (2x20mm) 354mph
#3 Fw190 (2x13mm 4x20mm) 350mph
#4 Me109 (2x13mm 1x20mm) 350mph
#5 Me109 (2x13mm 3x20mm) 342mph
#6 Spit (2x12.7mm 2x20mm) 340mph
#7 N1K2 (4x20mm) 335mph
#8 C.205 (2x12.7mm 2x20mm) 321mph
More:
FW190 with 2x20mm were around 2-3mph faster and 2x20mm+2x30mm seemed 2-3mph slower.
Me109 is mentioned twice in the list due to gondolas, which did slower it some, but still keep faster than spitfire.
When I shot all cannon off with gondolas, speed was nearly 350mph.
P51 needed sometime to reach that total speed.
La5 were second fastest plane!!
C.205 were slower than I expected.
Guess ill get my slowly producing speed list for different altitudes with climbing times and FPM (feets per minute) readings as well.
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6x .50 cal should slow a plane down 40 - 50 mph IMO.
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The pilots really complained about the Me 109 gondolas. 8mph loss seems small. But WTF do I know...
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BTW Fishu if you want to match Allied flight tests use max internal fuel.
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When I did shoot out all ammo out of 6x.50cal in P-51, it didn't first slow down more than 20mph very slowly, after around 400+400 ammo it slowed it down alot more compared to slow rate before it, total loss of speed was about 30-40mph, when in cannon armed planes i was getting 30-40mph loss with twin 20mm only.
Most complaints with gondolas were about maneuverability.
I were trying to test usual combat fuel amounts, thats why 50% fuel because many flies with p51 regulary with 50-75% fuel.
Besides P-51 flies about same amount of time and distance than many of those other planes with 75 % (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Fishu, just for comparision to shooting all ammo out try the loadout options. You can "load nothing" in the armament screen with the ord command, e.g. .ord 1 0 is 6x.50 for the P-51, .ord 1 1 is 4x.50, .ord 1 2 loads nothing - best way to check this out is the hangar because you actually see the green selection marker move where nothing is (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Az
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Azrael
XO 487th BG (Heavy) (http://www.487th.de)
'The Gentlemen from Hell'
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Just remembered there was a discussion resulting in agreement that AH La-5FN was too fast (and climbed too good, I think).
Was this addressed ?
Sorry If I missed it somewhere (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I have seen a report from testing a Bf 109G-4 with 3 gondolas; two in the wings and one under the belly. The report says 8 km/h loss with central gondola and 28 km/h with all three.
1 mile = 1.609344 km
//fats
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Fishu;
I believe Vermillion is working on the same data.
You might want to get with him and co-ordinate you efforts.
Mino
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Are those speeds achieved using wep?
How long to get to those speeds?
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Glars
RNZAF
http://glarsmaps.warbirds.org (http://glarsmaps.warbirds.org)
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Somehting is really wierd that the g10 is only 10mph faster than the spitfire. Loaded that g10 should go about 365mph on the deck and hve at least a 20mph advantage over the spit. Is it possible the guages aren't exact between the artwork or something?
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Azrael: I know how to fly non gunned planes, but who really flies fighter without? I know more guys flying without ammo though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Didn't bother to try different loadouts in other planes than 109 and 190, because I expected some more changes in speeds than 0-4mph.
Glars: Yes, I did use wep, but I didn't bother to get accerlation times because I should had used normal clock for it.
Already got annoyed with it while doing climbing testings with 190, two testing flights failed, when I didn't get enough accurate results up.
Kats: As I told in the notes, Me109 and C.205 IAS indicator was slightly ahead of TAS indicator, unlike in other planes.
But IAS might be also typical for plane, so I took speeds with TAS indicator, which was about 4-8mph ahead of TAS.
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Interesting results Fishu, not what I expected at all.
Strangely it is not even close to what I have experienced in the arena so far, but I admittedly haven't done any controlled testing.
Its been my experience that the C.205 has near 109 speed and equal acceleration.
In arena play, I have easily outrun Spits, La5's, and N1K2's, that were co-alt/co-E. Fw190's seemed to be approximately equal in speed. Only thing that seems faster were 109's (very marginal) and P-51's.
Like someone said above, testing is best if done with fuel fuel and ammo for guns, no external expendables.
FYI Someone mentioned that I was doing this testing myself.
Yes, but recently I acceptted the CO Job over in AirWarrior for the upcoming Pearl Harbor Scenario, so that is eating up all my spare time so testing is on the backburner for the present.
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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires ;) "
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Vermillion: My guess is that C.205 keeps speed well, but doesn't achieve such speeds on flat accerlate.
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are you kidding? the 205 feels like it's woefully underpowered to me and bleeds e too much. it's fantastic for one good turn (maybe two if diving) but after that, to coin a phrase, it's a grape waiting to be picked.
-al
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I liked the 205 when I flew it. It had the feel of a P-51 crossed with a Spitfire. However; I have not flown it enough to make any judgements.
I will say this. The sight is off. Guns fire C/L, but the sight is too far right. Far enough right to make shots totally miss on the left. Is this historically correct?
I missed one kill in my 1st flight. It should have been a "gimmee" total ambush kill(low six non-manuvering d150). That was when I realized the sight was off. The player sure woke up fast after I laid a 4 sec burst past their left window. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I have since modified the sight so the tracers shoot down the middle of the sight hole and not a big deal.
Mino
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Thanks for the tests, I did a spot check on some of your figures. I couldn't get that much speed out of the Spit. It does look like we do have a discrepency in the Spit's airspeed indicator, but it was showing slower. The 109 figure was really slow too and I checked it and got about the same result. WEP performance is off for some reason.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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(final kick at a poor defenseless dead horse - I promise to shut up and go away quietly after that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)):
Fishu - did you consider before testing that full load of Pony fuel may weigh close to La-5 dry weight? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) The poor thing, after all weighted just 2,800 kgs... Oh those deceptive %% of fuel (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
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The 109 figure was really slow too and I checked it and got about the same result. WEP performance is off for some reason.
Yes, please, make it faster. The beer is on me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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wow, the Spit9 is a heck of a lot faster than you'd think. I've read 312mph max for a Spit9 on the deck.
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Pyro: I Did check Spitfire again with 12.7mm and 7.62mm gun loads and 75%, I got both times 150mph to 340mph (TAS) at 500ft in 2 minutes with wep.
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I was bored, so I did some high altitude top speed tests (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) All planes tested with 100% fuel and ammo loads.
Plane(guns) - TAS at 25000ft with WEP on.
P-51D(6x.50) - 435mph
Bf109G-10(2x13mm,1x20mm) - 425mph
Spitfire MkIX(2x20mm,2x.50) - 415mph
F4U-1D - 410mph
La-5FN - 400mph
C.205(2x12.7mm,2x20mm) - 400mph *retest*
FW190A-8(2x13mm,4x20mm) - 380mph
N1K2-J - 350mph
B17G - n/t
C-47 - 230mph(20,000ft) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I suspect the FW190A-8 is a bit slow? Maybe the N1K2-J too. Then again, both engines did have a reputation for losing power at high altitude.
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 12-13-1999).]
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Juzz,
the C.205 is slow as well. Her max speed at 24,000ft was 399mph TAS, no WEP. This is an official Macchi data.
Gatt
P.S.: ah, the C.205 max speed on the deck is, IMHO, pretty accurate. The real one got about 325mph TAS, no WEP.
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 12-13-1999).]
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Note that at some altitudes (low) TAS marker is visibly behind the needle (IAS) in 109.
With this inaccuracy al results must be taken with caution.
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Hmmm, I must have done something wrong with the Macchi the first time, gear down or something like that...
BTW: I just realised, if you use .time 12 00 60 you can use the plane's cockpit clock as a timer for climb tests etc... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Juzz,
could your *magic* retest bring the Macchi from her poor 2,900ft/min to the right 3,300ft/min? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Ok, dont mind I'm flak happy.
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If in doubt, try it out! It does do 400mph(on WEP though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) And now I have my handy "Aces High analogue clock timer" worked out, I can do some *magic* climb testing. I'll see what I can do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I can't speak historically about the macchi, cause I dinnae know about it til now, but I think the AH bird is a pretty good turner/close base defender. In a desperate attempt to keep the nits out of field 24 I took the macchi up cause I'd heard people saying it was a good turner. I turned with 3 nits, a pony, a 190, and a spit (maybe a 4th was there, never was sure =). The spit retreated west, whether damage or fuel I dinnae. Took the pony down and I suckered the 190 into a face full of ack =) Probably just a 5 minute dance, but it felt like an hour, and Fishu in the tower saying "How are you still alive and flying?" dinane help any =)