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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Static_Void on July 10, 2003, 06:21:13 PM

Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Static_Void on July 10, 2003, 06:21:13 PM
As i recall from my knowledge of WW2 warbirds, wasnt the P51 capable of a 440MPH top speed?

EVEN the slowest earley production model P51-A had a 1200HP allison and a top speed of 390

I mean it just feels as if there is a 5HP bringgs and straton in there sometimes.

And also why are the slow speed flight caric's so bad? Mustang was a heavy plane @ 6800lb but...

Maybe its just me. Am i wrong?
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Steve on July 10, 2003, 06:25:40 PM
Hmmm, Interesting how opinions vary so greatly, isn't it?
I consider the pony to be quite nimble for a speed plane.  It's slow speed handling is much better, with the la7 as the exception, than any plane that is close to the pony's top speed.  And even the exception is iffy.
Fly the pony in it's sweet spot(speed wise) and you really have a dangerous machine.
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Kweassa on July 10, 2003, 06:31:30 PM
That's one frickin' fast sloth, in that case, because when I fly the Bf109G-10, I know I have absolutely no chance of catching a P-51D if it only has 5k alt beneath him.
Title: Re: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on July 10, 2003, 06:33:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Static_Void
As i recall from my knowledge of WW2 warbirds, wasnt the P51 capable of a 440MPH top speed?

EVEN the slowest earley production model P51-A had a 1200HP allison and a top speed of 390

I mean it just feels as if there is a 5HP bringgs and straton in there sometimes.

And also why are the slow speed flight caric's so bad? Mustang was a heavy plane @ 6800lb but...

Maybe its just me. Am i wrong?


Both P51's are awesome - struggle to fly either the G10 or D9 after a week or so in the Stang.
Title: Re: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Blue Mako on July 10, 2003, 07:34:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Static_Void
As i recall from my knowledge of WW2 warbirds, wasnt the P51 capable of a 440MPH top speed?

EVEN the slowest earley production model P51-A had a 1200HP allison and a top speed of 390

I mean it just feels as if there is a 5HP bringgs and straton in there sometimes.

And also why are the slow speed flight caric's so bad? Mustang was a heavy plane @ 6800lb but...

Maybe its just me. Am i wrong?


Sorry but you aren't flying it correctly.  The Mustang (both varients in AH) is a very fast plane but it is SLOW to accelerate.  Mustangs are fast when you conserve your energy.  They are not designed to turn fight so don't try to treat it like a Spitfire.  Keep it fast and only make gentle turns (unless you need to evade).

Two rules for flying the Mustang:

Altitude = speed

Speed = Life

:cool:
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: icemaw on July 10, 2003, 08:26:42 PM
What Steve said its all about the sweet spot. Turning a pony is all about flaps.
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: F4UDOA on July 10, 2003, 08:55:46 PM
Funny thing is you hit the speeds right on the numbers.

Only problem is th Pony hits 440MPH at 25K.

How many times have you been at 25K in a Pony??

If your expecting 440MPH at sea level then you should look at the performance charts.
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: davidpt40 on July 10, 2003, 10:59:39 PM
P-51 accelerates slowly, so this is probably why it seems like a sloth.  For such a heavy plane, the 1650hp merlin engine is a bit lacking, but the radiative exhaust effect helps provide thrust (approximately 1000 pounds of thrust from the engine, 300 pounds of thrust from the exhaust).

So what this means is that you always want to put yourself in a position where you can dive on your opponent.  In dire circumstances, you can dogfight in the P51, but be sure to use the 'vertical'.
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Kweassa on July 11, 2003, 05:48:48 AM
I thought the 51D had the RR-Packard Merlin68 V-1650-70, rated 1490hp for mil, and 1720 for emergency.
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Zippatuh on July 11, 2003, 08:20:12 AM
It is actually pretty slow.  That’s why I’m going to take this opportunity to say we need the P51-H in AH.  The D model simply will not do.  If you want to perk it fine, the H should be say, about 5 points?  :D

Everyone else has pretty much nailed it.  It doesn’t accelerate very quickly and it was never meant to be a turn fighter.  It does have good stall characteristics at slow speeds with flaps out and a gentle stick.  The problem at stall speeds with the stang is the acceleration.  By the time you figure out you’ve lost air and are falling there’s not a whole lot to do about it if you’re on the deck.
Title: Re: Re: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: SLO on July 11, 2003, 09:19:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Blue Mako

Two rules for flying the Mustang:

Altitude = speed

Speed = Life

:cool:



Altitude = Perch for Cherry Pickin.....

Speed = Runstang....very long extensions.....


2 rules of the Cherry pickers galore:D
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Kweassa on July 11, 2003, 09:47:55 AM
Considering the crap machine Ta152H-1 is a 15 point plane, the P-51H's gonna at least be 30. Then maybe we can whine some more and request the Ta152C be modelled :o
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Steve on July 11, 2003, 11:40:14 AM
SLO...  you're whining about cherry pickers is getting predictable.  You have almost as many kills in the 262 and 163(combined)  as you do in any other fighter this tour.  I suppose you turnfight on the deck with these planes huh?  Oh, and an equal amount of kills in an f4u-c... a perk plane... oh... I bet you were on the deck turnfighting in that too eh?  Last tour you had over 200 kills in the typhoon/p51.  Oh.. right, you were turnfighting on the deck in those planes right?  Gimme a break SLO, you're exposed for the hypocrite that you are... now shaddup.
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: WestyAH on July 11, 2003, 11:42:53 AM
Static-Void, you're sure when you're flying that you don't have the P-51 stuck in reverse?
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Static_Void on July 11, 2003, 12:23:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WestyAH
Static-Void, you're sure when you're flying that you don't have the P-51 stuck in reverse?


lol. Just might be :)

I dunno just seems to take forever to get the P51 to its "sweet spot"

Maybe for high alt vulch's its great, i just cant seem to use its potential

Prolly tos that to skill though. Been flyin the N1K2 way to much as of lates
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: icemaw on July 11, 2003, 12:24:15 PM
Well I have been mulling this over and I think I have found the answer. Did you release the parking brake?
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: SlapShot on July 11, 2003, 01:43:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
SLO...  you're whining about cherry pickers is getting predictable.  You have almost as many kills in the 262 and 163(combined)  as you do in any other fighter this tour.  I suppose you turnfight on the deck with these planes huh?  Oh, and an equal amount of kills in an f4u-c... a perk plane... oh... I bet you were on the deck turnfighting in that too eh?  Last tour you had over 200 kills in the typhoon/p51.  Oh.. right, you were turnfighting on the deck in those planes right?  Gimme a break SLO, you're exposed for the hypocrite that you are... now shaddup.


All done fishin' Steve ? Got any "whopper" storys ?
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Steve on July 11, 2003, 03:05:07 PM
Slapper, here is a picture of a nice smallie I caught.  I'm still on Lac Du Flambeau, looking for more.  :)




(http://r1329776.hostultra.com/Uploads/Image01.jpg)
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: SlapShot on July 11, 2003, 03:35:21 PM
mmmmm mmmmmm ... get out the butter and the fryin pan !!!
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: Steve on July 11, 2003, 07:54:41 PM
Static, your high alt vulch comment isn't the way you need to go.  what you should do though is get the pony "wound up" before you enter a fight.  I've learned that to get kills and give yourself a chance of survival, you rarely have to go over say... 12k.  What I mean is, if you arrive at a fight at 12k and 300+ on the dial, the high dots aren't really an immediate threat regardless of plane type.  If you've got your pony up to speed, the pony can take on any high plane.  I'm not saying you'll win every fight, but you can tangle a bit, see if the bogie is going to err, then disengage if the fight looks bad.  If you arrive at the fight at speed and encounter multiple high bogies, you can simply leave.   Even an La7 will hesitate to run you down if it means he has to chase you half a sector to catch you. Even then, chances are that slower planes have given up pursuit and you've got yourself a nice little 1v1.   No gaurantees here but, beating an la7 on your pony's 6 is very doable. get him down on the deck so he can't dive out if ya turn the tables on him. Reverse, engage, and have fun.  :)
Title: Why is the P51D a flying sloth?
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on July 12, 2003, 08:22:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Considering the crap machine Ta152H-1 is a 15 point plane, the P-51H's gonna at least be 30. Then maybe we can whine some more and request the Ta152C be modelled :o


Bring on the D12!!