Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on July 12, 2003, 09:49:37 AM
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Look, I understand there is no intention to model the GVs accurately. A 37mm manned ack that can knock out a tank by shooting HE shells? Never happen. Especially not at the 3K plus ranges that our handy dandy super 37mm weapon can kill panzers at. That said... since you all have no intention of modelling the Panzer IV correctly vis a vis a 37mm HE shell, could you at least make the tank die quicker? It gets extraordinarily tiresome to lose the turret in 2 hits, then the engine with the next 2, then the treads with the next few. Just make the first hit instant kill the tank. Presto, in one fell swoop you'll please your new found "who-gives-a-****-about-any-kind-of-historical-accuracy" fans and it won't take something that shouldn't be able to scratch the ****ing paint on a panzer so long to kill it.
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(scribble, scribble)
"Thank you sir, your whine has been recorded. Be advised that top men will be working on your issue as soon as possible."
"Top men."
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Thanks for the quick response numb****. Perhaps if you'd pull your head out of HT's ass, you'd see that GVs have been broken for well over two years, and despite constant "whining" have never been fixed. Therefore, I'm making a suggestion to make it a little less tiresome, at the cost of some half-assed modelling 'accuracy'.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Look, I understand there is no intention to model the GVs accurately. A 37mm manned ack that can knock out a tank by shooting HE shells? Never happen. Especially not at the 3K plus ranges that our handy dandy super 37mm weapon can kill panzers at. That said... since you all have no intention of modelling the Panzer IV correctly vis a vis a 37mm HE shell, could you at least make the tank die quicker? It gets extraordinarily tiresome to lose the turret in 2 hits, then the engine with the next 2, then the treads with the next few. Just make the first hit instant kill the tank. Presto, in one fell swoop you'll please your new found "who-gives-a-****-about-any-kind-of-historical-accuracy" fans and it won't take something that shouldn't be able to scratch the ****ing paint on a panzer so long to kill it.
Urchin,
as u have been told before. the 37mm mannable AA gun is a duel
purpose gun, it has HE(planes) and AP(GVs) ammo. if i remember correctly, when the mannable AA guns were put in, 1 of the main reasons
was to give the field a Anti Tank weapon besides the VH.
they should be upped to 88mm duel purpose.
whels
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Ok, and I'm sure as you've been told before, a 37mm round isn't going to knock out a tank at 1,000 yards. Or 2,000 yards. Or 3,000+ yards like it can now. It is gamey bull****. And since there is absolutely no intention of modelling it accurately, lets just give the gamey bull**** lever another pull and make it so it can kill a Panzer IV with one hit at any range. Hell, it already knocks off all the pieces at any range, but then you have to sit there for a minute or two until the guy can get lucky and land a round that 'kills' you. Just do away with all that bull****, lets make it easer on everyone involved.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Ok, and I'm sure as you've been told before, a 37mm round isn't going to knock out a tank at 1,000 yards. Or 2,000 yards. Or 3,000+ yards like it can now. It is gamey bull****. And since there is absolutely no intention of modelling it accurately, lets just give the gamey bull**** lever another pull and make it so it can kill a Panzer IV with one hit at any range. Hell, it already knocks off all the pieces at any range, but then you have to sit there for a minute or two until the guy can get lucky and land a round that 'kills' you. Just do away with all that bull****, lets make it easer on everyone involved.
lol there are other things in AH just as gamey, and wont be changed.
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Lets see, for the four-hundreth million time.. here is the armor specs for a Panzer IV H
Hull
Front: 80mm/ 14 degree slope (bottom), 10 degree slope (top)
Side: 30mm / 0 slope
Rear: 20mm/ 11 degree slope (bottom), 8 degree slope (top)
Top: 10-12mm/ 85-90 degree slope.
Turret
Front: 50mm/ 10 degree slope
Sides: 30mm/ 30 degree slope
Rear: 30mm/ 15 degree slope
Top: 10mm/ 90 degree slope
From http://members.rogers.com/admfisher/html/pz4.html#h
Now granted, if our 37mm "duel purpose" gun was a mortar, I might be able to see it knocking out tanks by going through the top armor. However, as far as I know it is a direct-fire weapon, not a mortar.
If you can find me a "duel purpose" 37mm gun capable of penetrating 50mm at 1,000+ yards, then I'm wrong.
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if you can find another game with a better damage model (that hasnt been specificly made for tank battling) then you can stop whining...
sure the 37mm shouldent be able to but if it didnt then why would anyone need to take out the ack before any tanks rolled into the place???
tank battling in this game is the most fun (and "realistic" feeling [exept for damage model...]) that i have ever seen...of course then again the only purpose built tank games i have seen are from the modern era...
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Calm down, fella, you're getting spit all over everything. The reason I classified your spluttering post as a whine is because of lines like the following:
I understand there is no intention to model the GVs accurately
That said... since you all have no intention of modelling the Panzer IV correctly
Presto, in one fell swoop you'll please your new found "who-gives-a-****-about-any-kind-of-historical-accuracy" fans
As you can see, the above italics show what is clearly a whinus urchinicus, also known as a 'whine'.
If, on the other hand, you had said: "I don't think the 37mm field guns should be able to kill Panzers, historical specs on the Panzer armor suggest that HE rounds would be unable to penetrate anywhere." then I wouldn't be able to call 'whine' on your post. I agree that the 37mms killing tanks is kinda strange, it seems like there should be really narrow points of failure that they could exploit, like the engine compartment or tread, but I don't get why the turret goes so quickly.
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WAAAA i was in a XXXXX and i got killed by a XXXXXx, this game is stupd,i am eleet, i canot die, fix this stupd game or i'm going to quit.
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THe truth is 37mm was a pretty common anti-tank round in the early war. Not as effective against midwar tanks and useless against late war armour, but still......there is historical precedence.
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Originally posted by john9001
WAAAA i was in a XXXXX and i got killed by a XXXXXx, this game is stupd,i am eleet, i canot die, fix this stupd game or i'm going to quit.
Who is this? I've never heard of you before.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Who is this? I've never heard of you before.
Take notice...
No teasing of players without first checking to see that your K/D ratio is sufficient for posting.
Thank You.
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Sorry but when germany invaded france, the 37mm was prevalent. And was found inadaquate for killing even the frnech tanks which at the time were heavily armored. PB range was the only likely way of killing a tank and I mean PB range. Even against a mark IV you would need to be within 2-300 yards to kill a panzer in the butt. I find it funy u can hit a mark Iv with a tiger under 100 and it will live yet the manned ack can kill it out to 3k. It is gamey and frustrating too. I think if tracers were turned on it would help some.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Calm down, fella, you're getting spit all over everything. The reason I classified your spluttering post as a whine is because of lines like the following:
As you can see, the above italics show what is clearly a whinus urchinicus, also known as a 'whine'.
If, on the other hand, you had said: "I don't think the 37mm field guns should be able to kill Panzers, historical specs on the Panzer armor suggest that HE rounds would be unable to penetrate anywhere." then I wouldn't be able to call 'whine' on your post. I agree that the 37mms killing tanks is kinda strange, it seems like there should be really narrow points of failure that they could exploit, like the engine compartment or tread, but I don't get why the turret goes so quickly.
Actually, what your italics showed are statements. They could also be called facts . Now, I understand many fanboys can't stand to see such things said about their beloved leader and game, but a fact is a fact. The GVs are broken in this game. They have been broken for as long as I've been here. HTC has absolutely no intention of fixing said broken GVs. I understand you need to spring to their defense and shout WHINER! WHINER! BURN THE WHINER! But, as one plays this game and tries the different aspects, one becomes rather disillusioned with the accuracy of the modelling when 20mm Hispanos can kill tanks, when 37mm "AP" rounds can kill a tank at ranges that positively boggle the mind, and when certain tanks go into epileptic seizures when the tracks are knocked out. This is in addition to tanks listing 30 degrees to the side like a torpedoed ship if just one track gets knocked out. Oh, I forgot to mention that not only can you SEE GVs through buildings... you can SHOOT them through buildings too. This is a known bug, at least it used to be a known bug, again it was never fixed. There are more "whines" I could go into, but I'm tired of "whining". Do a search, I'm sure you'll be able to find plenty of other "whines" about ground vehicles.
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If you had an armour piercing 37mm that could fire full auto and never run out of ammo or break down it would kill panzers eventually out to the maximum range of the round. As neither reliablility nor ammo limits are imposed on that gun it will kill a panzer eventually. Of course Urchin knows that at 3k the rounds will be plunging onto the decks like mortar rounds and that is likely why the gun is dangerous to panzers at those big ranges and at under 1k where it can just pulverize the tank but not really at 1300-2k where the rounds are still hitting the main armour.
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I remember seeing an old post many moons ago from HiTech that the mannable ack at fields are just skinned with the same 37mm texture that the unmannable ack has but they represent large caliber duel purpose guns.
This was done to allow bases to have anti armor capability all its own without the need to spawn armor in.
So my squad looks at the mannable ack as 88s in sheeps clothing (37mm skins) and they are a top priority when we attack fields in GV's.
But I agree that there are alot of GV problems that need addressing, and you named most of them.
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Yes there are huge problems with the armour damage and effect model.
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It is funny to see all these megadweebs jumping from manned gun to manned gun trying to get easy kills without even traveling a mile or being worried about die. IMO, this is the main problem. A poor guy driving his panzer for 10 mins just to be destroyed be some dweeb jumping into a manned gun. These things are ruining the game.
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Hell I agree with Urchin and his frustration of being plinked out from 3k from a damn ack while in a tank.
Obviously the main focus of HT is to model the planes etc correctly in first order but man...if you're going to include GV's...ya gotta model them SOMEWHAT close to historical.
Flak guns killing at 3K, tigers/panzers dying from downed buildings just ain't right.
Basically if you offer the gv aspect to the game, give it as much attention as the other aspects (aircraft) and wipe out these horrible gv bugs...
Just my 2 cents :)
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Urchin musta got killed...How dare them...Had to have been a gang...
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Originally posted by Pongo
...Of course Urchin knows that at 3k the rounds will be plunging onto the decks like mortar rounds and that is likely why the gun is dangerous to panzers at those big ranges...
Which is quite obviously happening and easy to see as a gunner. It takes quite some doing to get the rounds to fall into the target at those ranges, and it is of course the upper armor you are hitting.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
It is funny to see all these megadweebs jumping from manned gun to manned gun trying to get easy kills without even traveling a mile or being worried about die. IMO, this is the main problem. A poor guy driving his panzer for 10 mins just to be destroyed be some dweeb jumping into a manned gun. These things are ruining the game.
Well, I certainly agree there....you sit in a gun (at a base or on a ship) and its destroyed...you should get killed, not a landed sucessfully.
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http://www.panzer-vi.fsnet.co.uk/
every thing u want to know about panzers and tigers. including range tanks and guns could kill.(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_88_1058141188.jpg)
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Who cares about gvs anyway? It's called Aces High. Gvs are just a sideshow. I would rather have HTC work on fixing plane bugs and producing AH2 than working on the gv model. Urchin your panzer has a big gun on the top that can shoot just as far as the field acks. Use it. Don't bother getting your panties in a bunch over the gvs because they aren't important to HTC, just accept that and move on. Besides, HTC have already said that they aren't going to change a thing in AH until AH2 is out.
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Welp, no matter how fast I drove it, it wouldn't take off..
Silly design for a plane.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Ok, and I'm sure as you've been told before, a 37mm round isn't going to knock out a tank at 1,000 yards. Or 2,000 yards. Or 3,000+ yards like it can now. It is gamey bull****. And since there is absolutely no intention of modelling it accurately, lets just give the gamey bull**** lever another pull and make it so it can kill a Panzer IV with one hit at any range. Hell, it already knocks off all the pieces at any range, but then you have to sit there for a minute or two until the guy can get lucky and land a round that 'kills' you. Just do away with all that bull****, lets make it easer on everyone involved.
dude, you just said it yourself, the gun DOESNT KNOCK out your tank at 3000 yards. it damages it :p
That said... since you all have no intention of modelling the Panzer IV correctly vis a vis a 37mm HE shell, could you at least make the tank die quicker? It gets extraordinarily tiresome to lose the turret in 2 hits, then the engine with the next 2, then the treads with the next few. Just make the first hit instant kill the tank.
there you go... you NOW want it to DIE quicker? yet you also want it not to die at all? ;) :confused:
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
It is funny to see all these megadweebs jumping from manned gun to manned gun trying to get easy kills without even traveling a mile or being worried about die. IMO, this is the main problem. A poor guy driving his panzer for 10 mins just to be destroyed be some dweeb jumping into a manned gun. These things are ruining the game.
poor whels then.....the ultimate ack gunner:D
I agree with ya Urchin......even had a m16 completely DE track my Tiger:o
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I think there should be mannable airfield guns that are smaller and bigger than 37mm, such as a .50 cal sandbagged nest and a 88mm flak gun platform. Then the armour for the tanks could be modelled properly without affecting gameplay (since the 88mm could take out the Panzer and Tigers).
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Well, I feel compelled to point out that, while there are inconsistencies in certain aspect of GV play, HiTech has not completely ignored ground combat. It may not be getting the hightest priority, but it's coming along.
1) The killer trees and buildings have been fixed.
2) The damage model made more complex than when it first came out (all-or-nothing damage model giving way to multiple damage types).
3) The addition of resupply/repair of GVs in the field.
4) Addition of man-able defensive guns to oppose GVs.
5) Addition of barriers and destroyable structures to the terrain editor library (have you seen the tank-battle villages in some of the CT terrains, like Fin-Russ and Rhine?:eek: ).
HiTech has also said he is working on overhead concealment for them as well, such as forest canopy that you can hid under. Plenty of other GV bugs have been quashed as well, albeit rather more slowly than some would like. I for one really enjoy taking GV's out (though planes are still my favorite). Are there problems still? Sure. Are they in the que? Most probably are.