Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: INDN on May 11, 2001, 09:40:00 AM
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What I think would be a great addition to the damage model is the insturment panel go out. Electricity can go out and damage to the air powered ones could be blocked. The attitude indicator can just start to spin or airspeed drop to zero and so on. More aircraft failure is needed I think.
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I hope you don't mind if I add to this thread that we also need proper graphic representation when a wing is damaged as well, like bullet hole ridden wing tips rather than just a wingtip missing.
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Yeah and more realistic drag computations for wing damage. A plane shouldnt be faster with half a wing gone than without. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-Ding
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Could not agree more. Electrical short outs and also the abilty to put out fires in some way. Diving maybe? Don't know if this would work but hey (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Damaged surfaces would be great. If you shoot a wing then it's not just going to fall off. I think the Damage model needs to be worked on for the Next Version. This would help a lot and maybe even bring it above warbird standards. This would be amazing to do
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I gotta agree. The old "it's busted or it ain't" approach is really old. Someone, I forget who, suggested a way to display the damage report different. Aileron shimmy, a sluggish rudder, shot-through flaps, etc... would appear as orange, black, purple, whatever color you want. Once something is destroyed it would show up as red like it does now. But this "10 hits=(aileron falls off)" stuff is getting old.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/delta6.jpg)
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i agree
right now things get shot off far too often, especially using .50calibers
if you ever watch gun camera footage you know how .50 calibers killed: FIRE.
IMO there isnt nearly enough fire in aces high, andtoo much shooting off wings.
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I went into this on another thread concerning the fuel-leak induced fires..
Some aircraft were notorious for literally ripping themselves to pieces after the fuselage got bullet ridden.. Also the fire destroys lift area effectively.
Bullet ridden wings should effect in drag and loss of lift.. But the damage should be visible to the pilot or it can be very confusing in combat (cfs2..)
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How about radio damage, where you lose ground controller info ( map and DAR ) and have to navigate home by the seat of yer pants?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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And what you think of engine oil and coolant on windshield in case of damage?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Stefano "Nibbio"
4°Stormo CT "F.Baracca"
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hydrolics...Leaks...
Wow! My controls are really gettting stiff here :0
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If you do that, then I want blood splattered on the cockpit when pilot wounded. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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WOW lets see a 200+ meg file that's downloaded by a new guy on a crappy dial up like me handle all that eye candy. I want them working on new AC sow we can have a rps and even a HA. I also think game play is a bit more important then Bullet holes and flames slowing down the FPS.
Just one DWEEBS humble opinion.
I think AH has the best graphics around, of course not including Box sets.
(Wonder how the FPS would be in smoke with oil spraying on wind screen fire licking at the fluttering wingtip and smoke wisping up from under panel in a 35 plane furball over large field with 5 ostys firing at my 550mz K7 with 32meg geforce 2)
(would look good though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Scoot out
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LaVa most of the WWII planes used cables havent researched it much but, P38 I believe was Hydrualic and maybe P47 others were cables. Will know soon cause people will advise us quickly. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Scooter my point is that there are alot more parts of an airplane then just the engine and flight controls. The eye candy is fine but also need more damage.
Heres some suggestions.
1 Trim tabs can be stuck full up or down
2 rudder stuck to one side
3 Ailerons froze
4 engine control stuck at setting it was hit at
5 compas shot out
6 attitude indicator spin around freely
7 airspeed stop working
8 fuel gauge stop showing fuel level
oil and fuel on windsheild would be nice and not take to much to add I dont think. These are just ideas to add to the game for a more realistic flight experience.
some more thing that dont show auntil you need them. landing gear wont come down all the way or one is stuck up and other is down. Can also do something like the gear is still there but the wheel it missing you wont know until you land or some one is close enough to tell you. Ammo does lost of weird things to airplanes 88's can do alot more.
For those that dont have fast connect speeds for the holes and damage graphics they can do the old double dowload again like the old hires pack. Those that want the damage graphics can download them those who dont get black holes for the damage.
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re: Systems Damage
Damage and disabling air systems used to heat a cockpit and defog the windscreens would severely impact the ability of a pilot to fly and fight his airplane. Damage to oxygen systems used to keep a pilot alive above 12,000 would not only present the challenge of staying conscious but would introduce a large fire risk should leaks develop in the enclosed cockpit.
MiG
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INDN
<S>
I agree with your sugestions and this type of system damage should be doable (sp?)
and would add a nice realism level. I also think any addition to realism is a good thing my only concern is not getting so boged down with the details that we lose other things we need (want) more after all HTC is only six people. IMO growth is important for the sim and making it to real for realitys sake can go to far. Don't get me wrong I am a pilot and love the sim (though I still suck) but the learning curve is steep here (rember more new members is a good thing for all of us as HTC can do more as $$ come in) I think a way to sum it up is the progression can have two tracks Graphics and Realism and Game Play. with additions added to each along the way. I like to see this kind of request a lot more then Perk this and this plane is 5.7 mph to slow when inverted the the real one. If it adds to the game and is fairly painless to implament great. I like the partial panel idea and that should be real easy to do. Boy long winded here sorry.
Scoot out
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If you guys wouldn't mind random instrumentation failure due to gunfire, then it would be EXTREMELY easy to implement.
Anytime you take a hit, anywhere... the game runs a section of code that randomly draws a number. Each number represents either an instrument being damaged or nothing.
If you are unlucky enough to get shot and the random instrument damage code runs through it's loop and picks out a number that damages an instrument, then you lose that instrument.
That's easy to setup, it's just a matter of... would you guys like it.. (no I don't work for HTC and have no influence on what they do... I'm just saying it would be easy to make)
-SW
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Indian, I think you are confused- what you want is allready there.
An aileron can be stuck, same as a rudder or stab.
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What gets me isn't so much that you lose a whole wing panel when it gets shot off, but it's the fact that it just cleanly falls off the plane. In the pictures and footage that I've seen, mostly in buffs, when the wing gets shot up enough to fail, it folds upwards before it comes off. This is because the wing panel is still producing lift, but there isn't sufficient structure to hold it in position, so it pivots around the failure point. I have had a few R/C models whose wings have failed and I can say that the same thing happened. Made me sick to my stomach when I pulled a gentle loop with one of my favorite planes and the wings just bent upwards, leaving the fuselage to fall to the earth uncontrolled. That will teach me to make my strut-bolts extra tight.
Just the general cleanliness of the failures detracts from the realism IMO. To cleanly cut something such as a control surface off with gunfire alone would be tough. You would have to sever every hinge point and sever the control cables. What I see as more realistic would be a damaged control surface hanging in the breeze more or less, and being torn off later by aerodynamic forces such as flutter and other vibration.
Being able to bend things would be cool, but I bet it would be very tough to implement. Nose over and your prop blades get curled. Broken glass and instruments would add to the effect.
I'm quite sure HTC is aware of all of this, it's just a matter of devoting the resources to model it. I don't think that many people would appreciate an update that didn't add any planes, but was simply reworking things to look/work better. I think that people sometimes overlook how complicated it is to implement "easy" things that are somewhat complicated in reality.
Keep up the good work, HTC.
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Fires from leaking fuel that gets blasted from MG/cannon fire. Right now you just go on flying with a leaking fuel tank, as you know its no real liability, but in RL people would go home after something like that because they knew it was an extreme risk of getting lit up and exploding.
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Hmm, posted too quick on that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I meant to add as well, the reason you see so little of this is the way the current damage is applied.
Currently the system is something like this:
(Projectile weightxVelocity on impact)+Explosive content
With an armor value determining whether or not it can penetrate X amount of value. Then each portion of the plane has x amount of hit points- if the damage is greater than it falls off if less than it's stuck. With AH damages are so high from just 1 or 2 20mm or .50 cal shells the whole works just falls off. In a BB gun fight you see things get stuck all the time instead of just blowing off.
BTW I am not sure but I don't think AH models penetration through the plane either. Thus a .50 cal actualy only affects what it hits and doesn't go through to the next section. B-17 is a good example- you can hammer the tail gun with .50 cal and kill him dead but the saddle guns won't be touched. From dead six the .50 should make leaky meat out of all 3 positions.
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I don't really care about graphic representation as much as I care about variation. Right now, if you lose your wingtip, your plane will handle in a very specific manner. You can actually learn to fly the aircraft in that condition.
Damage, IMO, should be more unpredictable in effect and result. Control surfaces sticking or flapping uncontrolled and such... simulating actuators sticking or cables breaking. Stuff like that.
As for the original post... I think it would be good only for instruments effected by circuitry. That is.. if you lose power what systems go out. Oil pressure shouldn't... head pressure shouldn't... don't know how airspeed was figured back then, but I assume some kind of pito (sp?) tube was used in wich case electrical outage affects it and so on.
The main thing is... given the choice between a slow game with a realistic damage model and an acceptable speed game with an unrealistic damage model... I chose framerate. Once the systems come up to speed we can work the hard stuff in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu
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Sorrow I know we all ready have stuck flaps and all I mean stuck ailerons where you cant get out of a turn or a stuck rudder thats to one side or the other not just failed neutral. Somethings you wont know about like say the flaps are damaged from gun fire and you lower them one comes full down and other to 10% s split flap condition and a suprise to the pilot. Only then does it show up as a damaged flap. Or a singal .50cal round hits a aileron in full deflection and the thing sticks that way not neutral but full or partial deflection. you will have to fight a very bad handling plane if you can fly it at all.
I am also for more growth but want more of the real feal.
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Depending on the particular instrument, most of the essiential flight gauges run off the vaccum system inconjunction with the pitot tube (that does the actual measuring)
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Haven't seen this yet...
After taking several hits in a wing or other surface, it's structural integrity should be significantly reduced.
I think it would help if you could look at your wing and determine if you just have a few minor holes or if the thing is ready to fall off. As it is now, you don't really know if the next 7.62mm will be the only thing needed to break it for good.
For that matter, I am not sure, but do damaged wings break easier in high G load turns? I.e... If you are normally able to pull a 7G turn, can you do the same after getting the wing all shot up, or will the wing now fall off at 3Gs due to damage?
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Wing up, Get kills, Be happy!
Midnight CO
(http://www.telusplanet.net/public/brandor/images/412.gif)
The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information davidlj@charter.net
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It would be my hope that with the reworking of the Ground Vehicle damage model that it might be applicable to the Airplanes as well.
Let's see how well it works and exactly how it's done then talk HT and Pyro into doing it for the planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/sigs/wingnut.gif)
The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it - Baron Manfred von Richthofen
[This message has been edited by Wingnut_0 (edited 05-12-2001).]
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I agree with Dejavu again. Something is amiss.
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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I would love to see a more realistic damage model in severeal areas mentioned here. I really like the idea of inoperable gauges. I also do agree that there is a real need to have a more gradual damage model. We certainly cant go NUTTZ® here, I feel the all or nothing damage model while workable, leaves much to be desired. Damage might first effect drag/lift, then after much more damage a wing/tail falls off. At a bare minimun I would like to see less full structural failures and more induced uncontrolability ((ie: damaged wing locks alieron in a certain position and/or the damage itself causes yaw/pitch/roll in a certail verctor)).
All in all AH has a great damage model...but as always...I WANT MORE! <S> HiTech
(http://home.tampabay.rr.com/strategy/Animation1.gif)
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I used to play a lot of EF2000 with a VR-Headset... nuthing more immersive than having a whole glass cockpit going on the blink (CRTs used to roll like they lost v-sync and stuff) or looking out THROUGH the holes in your wing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and things got really hard when the HUD failed - although if I remember correctly there were back up instruments on the side panels.