Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: acepilot2 on July 13, 2003, 04:26:46 PM
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I believe that the la7 and niki should be perked. The niki should be perked about 30. I am not 100% sure on this, but I believe the niki was not available until the last year/months of the war, like 1944 or 45. Considering how well it manuvers, it should be perked and it was not used until the end of the war. I do not think the la7 should not be perked as much, probably around 10. The la7, obviously, has a lot of speed and I fear it in a dogfight. That basically means I fear every dogfight. There are too many of them and perking it should balance out the variety of aircraft.\
Now, a lot of people say that the spit and pony should be perked. However, these are arguably the two most famous fighters of world war II. When someone new wants to play aces high, and they figure out that the two infamous fighters of world war II are perked, that will turn him down because he cannot fly them. Also, I view the spitfire and p51 as more beginner planes rather than "dweeb" planes.
I am not whining in any way, I don't really care about the la7 or niki, its just that it seems like the entire arena is an la7 or niki.
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Too funny!!!
You should delete this thread now...
SKurj
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Let's make a deal at 4 points for the La, and 3 for the N1K2. :D
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Actually, I actually think 4 for la7 would be okay...nik should be a lot. I am going to get totally flamed for this thread and called a whiner and what not but hey i am just saying the plane variety is uneven.
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Well lets see...
Spit: likely most famous and popular brit plane
P51: likely most famous and popular US plane
La7: Likely most popular and perhaps most famous plane amongst russian players/russian aircraft fans
n1k2: again most popular and only really capable japanese plane, so favoured by many japanese players
Soooo!!
If you are gonna perk n1k and la7, ya gotta spread the joy and perk the spit and p51 too...
Perkin the n1k is a bit of a joke IMO, at least half the plane set can catch it.
The saving grace of most of the perk planes is they can disengage at will. This wouldn't be the case with the n1k or the spit.
SKurj
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I don't think you will get flamed, but I do disagree. Actually, I think planes should not be perked. Why, well because. You want an explanation, OK here is mine.
In actual war, you weren't asked to "pay" for the plane you had to fly. You were chosen. Or, the plane was not available because of production and delivery. Upgrading your plane in WWII was on a need-to-know and need-to-upgrade issue based on enemy activity. Sometimes the shipments were late, and sometimes parts were not available. Can HTC include these variables into gameplay? Maybe. Do I think that planes and vehicles need to be perked? NO, I think there might be a STRAT
setting that drives the availability and supply of planes, parts, ammo, fuel, troops, and ground vehicles. The dynamics are huge.
So I guess, there could be a beginner level, and so-on and so-forth, to test your skills and allow you access to better, faster, and more sophisticated aircraft, as your rate improves.
However, the perk thing to me is kinda lame, but in the MA it's acceptable. In a new setting, it night get challenged.
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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Ken, the attrition concept you talk about, will piss off more players than any suggested perk setting! ;)
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Perk the N1K2 (I hardly see these anymore anyways) and you'll never see them again. It would suffer the triple wammy of a unique icon, high perk cost (at your suggested price) and to slow to escape from, probably, 90% of the fighters encountered in the MA.
The N1K2 is helpless before anybody who has a reasonably speedy aircraft and a clue what they are doing.
You realize that you suggested that an aircraft that was produced in eight times the number of the Ta152H-1 and saw heavy use be perked at a higher cost?
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Originally posted by acepilot2
I believe that the la7 and niki should be perked. The niki should be perked about 30. I am not 100% sure on this, but I believe the niki was not available until the last year/months of the war, like 1944 or 45. Considering how well it manuvers, it should be perked and it was not used until the end of the war. I do not think the la7 should not be perked as much, probably around 10. The la7, obviously, has a lot of speed and I fear it in a dogfight. That basically means I fear every dogfight. There are too many of them and perking it should balance out the variety of aircraft.\
Now, a lot of people say that the spit and pony should be perked. However, these are arguably the two most famous fighters of world war II. When someone new wants to play aces high, and they figure out that the two infamous fighters of world war II are perked, that will turn him down because he cannot fly them. Also, I view the spitfire and p51 as more beginner planes rather than "dweeb" planes.
I am not whining in any way, I don't really care about the la7 or niki, its just that it seems like the entire arena is an la7 or niki.
It seems every month brings a new perk the La7/N1K2/Spitfire/P-51D thread. Honestly, why not just learn how to fight them instead of trying to perk them? It's a whole lot better and rewarding than trying to defeat them by perking them.
Besides, planes aren't perked because of year they were introduced or quantity that saw action but rather on how they effect the game balance in the arena. You may disagree on this but here's a little snippet from the manual (I really wish more people would read it...)
The perk system is a way for HTC to introduce some interesting but otherwise unbalancing planes on a limited basis but the benefits go deeper than that. Perk planes (and vehicles) would be things like Me 262s, Ta 152s, Tempests, B-29s, Ar 234s, Tiger IIs, etc. These are interesting rides but would be very unbalancing if they were available on an unlimited basis. So there won't be unlimited availability but they'll be available as bonuses or perks every so often.
Ack-Ack
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Perk the La7 three cannon model...
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would be interesting to see what a 5 point perk on P51's, La7's, Spit9's and N1K1's would do.....
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It would do nothing. All you are doing is making those planes inaccessable to new players that come in. There is no valid reason to perk those planes, none of them unbalance the arena in any way.
Ack-Ack
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Oh, there are a lot of valid reasons.
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Which are? The N1K2, La7, Spitfire Mk IX or the P-51D hardly unbalance the game play in the arena, which is the only reason why a plane should be perked. So following that criteria, there are no valid reasons to perk them. And the argument that there's more people flying those planes than any of the other ones doesn't make the arena unbalanced.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by SKurj
Soooo!!
If you are gonna perk n1k and la7, ya gotta spread the joy and perk the spit and p51 too...
What a GRAND idea. Hmmm, perk the most popular planes, possibly leading to a .... oh never mind.
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There's no reason the criteria behind perking things cannot be changed, Ack. "Balance" is only one of the many reasons possible(and the only one currently being used) for considering things to be perked.
Also, to apply a reverse logic, your reason for them being not a problem, doesn't sound much different from "I have no trouble killing them, so they have no problems".
If most of the average pilots who are probably significantly more in numbers than the guys who always have no trouble in killing things, thought the same, the "Big Four" wouldn't be a 'big four' in the first place.
In short, the Big Four is a Big Four because most of the people don't agree with you. They're either 1) harder to kill than other planes, 2) easier to survive in than other planes, 3) easier to get kills in than other planes, or 4) all of the above. That's why they fly them. Lookit the hoarde of average/newbie pilots using the La-7 - despite that fact the plane still has a K/D of over 1.
Thus, four planes constitute 40% of the arena - jabo/CV ops not included, only at a pure fighter role. That's about as high a percentage the Chog got in pure fighter role(10%).
If that's not 'unbalancing', what is?
The super high perk costs suggested above for the N1K2, for example, clearly comes from a personal bias. But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole idea of perking things is a no-no.
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The reason that there are perked planes at all is because we are flying the entire set of planes in one arena. Early war, Mid war and Late War. A reasonable response to promote equity would to be provide 3 "historically accurate" MA's that divide the plane sets along these lines. But who wants that ?!?! We would have squads split up all over the place, unless.....(hmmmmmmm....) along with map rotation, there was an early/mid/late war plane-set rotation. I can just see the threads posted on arguing what should and should not be included in which plane set (plus the set which would include all the planes that were manufactured but not produced in time to make any difference in the war - i.e. F8F Bearcat, etc...).
To the point that perking shouldn't be allowed because it's not historical... what's historical about getting shot down and reupping again 30 times in an hour ? LOL...
There are techniques used in this game which are an artifact of the game, and nothing which may have occured in actual history. When your base is being attacked you up something quick, agile, light, able to climb at a great rate and so on. That's pretty historical, I suppose. Some players up planes with the intention of killing the attackers of the base at all costs even if it means they are going to suicide in the process (A Spit HO'ing an La7 or a Mossy). Thats because we can all get right back into a plane and reup and THAT is an artifact of the game, not real war...
I posed a question in MA today about whether or not HO's could/should be restricted and what good/bad effect that might have. I was deluged with hostile comments about whining and complaining, etc.... LOL !!! You would think I picked a scab on everyone. Maybe it was...
An interesting suggestion was made that every plane should be perked at least a little to make it a more valuable commodity, it might promote a little bit of caution about how the plane is used (abused) and may even cut down on the FREE HO'S that people use when defending their bases. Everyone gets a bank of free perk points to start the tour (or map rotation with) and Newbie planes are totally unperked. Hurricane I, Spitfire I, F4F, etc....
How about that ?
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HOs are a totally different story Hyrax.
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Originally posted by Tumor
What a GRAND idea. Hmmm, perk the most popular planes, possibly leading to a .... oh never mind.
Ahh Tumor +)
Was just my reply to someone trying to justify perking the n1k and la7. I hardly expect any will be perked.
SKurj
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Originally posted by SKurj
Ahh Tumor +)
Was just my reply to someone trying to justify perking the n1k and la7. I hardly expect any will be perked.
SKurj
Ahh heck, I was just agreeing. IMHO, the top 5-4 really ought to be perked, and I'm not excluding my own fav's. I wouldn't have a problem at all with every ride in the game being perked, some extremely low and some high. Perk my favorite rides, fine... good, no problem. I fly with the intent to RTB already.
I stupidly thought that over time, as the hordes became more profficient, a large percentage of them would migrate to aircraft that are a challenge to achieve success. Boy was I wrong. Fact is, it's gone exactly the opposite direction... I've even found myself jumping in Spits/Lala's more often (excuse me for a minute, I need to go puke) just to see what the big draw is, and I still don't get it.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not taking anything away from Spits, Lala's, Mustangs etc. All are fine rides. But everything gets old after awhile. The same game with the same scenario over and over just makes it worse. But, I'm apparently part of a huge minority of folks who don't take the easy road as first choice (consistently).
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No, no, Tumor. You're part of a very small minority that doesn't take the easy road.
Well, maybe you are. What do you fly?
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Originally posted by Karnak
No, no, Tumor. You're part of a very small minority that doesn't take the easy road.
Well, maybe you are. What do you fly?
hmmm.. lol, I guess your right.
I fly them all some, a few more, others less, but all nontheless.
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Fly the La7 for a couple of tours then tell me it needs to be perked.
Its really only dangerous on the deck. Above 12 k it falls off fast.
Its got limited endurance, less than a half hour with full tanks.
Its got a fair ammo clip but they are NOT hispano's, they are much harder to hit with. And you have to get in much closer to do any real damage.
Last if your in a la7 you can bet every enermy within 25 miles will be in on the chase. They all want a piece of you.
Perk the nik with its huge ammo load & endurance, its good high alt performance.
Leave the la7's alone.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Perk the N1K2 (I hardly see these anymore anyways) and you'll never see them again.
We must fly in different time zones or at least for different countries.................
Its the only explanation ............
I fly bish in the euro time zones and I can assure you the N1K2 is as popular as the Spit amongst Rooks and Nights during those times.
In fact saying this the Spits I see could be 9's or 5's but the N1K2 is always a N1K2..............
I see the P51 more often than the La7 as an opponent......... including when its suiciding its self trying to drop 2 x 1000lbers and a complement of rockets to pork a field...........
I always assumed that the Hordes of La7's refered to occurred at times other than those I fly in............ I am just amazed that there are times when the the N1K2 is rarely to be found.........
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Its got a fair ammo clip but they are NOT hispano's, they are much harder to hit with. And you have to get in much closer to do any real damage.
Any one got a comparison of AH lethality between 2 cannon and 3 cannon la7's?
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Fly the La7 for a couple of tours then tell me it needs to be perked.
Its really only dangerous on the deck. Above 12 k it falls off fast.
Its got limited endurance, less than a half hour with full tanks.
Its got a fair ammo clip but they are NOT hispano's, they are much harder to hit with. And you have to get in much closer to do any real damage.
Last if your in a la7 you can bet every enermy within 25 miles will be in on the chase. They all want a piece of you.
Perk the nik with its huge ammo load & endurance, its good high alt performance.
Leave the la7's alone.
Ghost flies an La7.
Above 12k it's below satisfactory.. Now where do 90% of all fights occur?
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Above 12k it's below satisfactory.. Now where do 90% of all fights occur?
12k?? La7 keeps 410mph at 20k without wep, just like, for example F4U1D or P38 with WEP. P47D30 with wep may be 5 mph faster than La7 without wep at 20k, so, what means below satisfactory?? slower than Me262??
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Perk the N1k?!
I guess us Japanese fans will just have to migrate to the ki-61 en mass... ohh the joy (actually its a great bird, but against d-9s/ ponys...uuggg)
How about leaving the N1K alone and adding then perking the Ki-100
yeah, that'll work ;)
-bigred
ps, the best thing about the N1K now is everyone who sees one assumes your an idiot and tries ridiculous attacks against you...
simply sublime....
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
12k?? La7 keeps 410mph at 20k without wep, just like, for example F4U1D or P38 with WEP. P47D30 with wep may be 5 mph faster than La7 without wep at 20k, so, what means below satisfactory?? slower than Me262??
Psssst... I wouldnt know.. :D
You're quoting me quoting Ghost ;)
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Fly the La7 for a couple of tours then tell me it needs to be perked.
Its really only dangerous on the deck. Above 12 k it falls off fast.
Its got limited endurance, less than a half hour with full tanks.
Its got a fair ammo clip but they are NOT hispano's, they are much harder to hit with. And you have to get in much closer to do any real damage.
Last if your in a la7 you can bet every enermy within 25 miles will be in on the chase. They all want a piece of you.
Perk the nik with its huge ammo load & endurance, its good high alt performance.
Leave the la7's alone.
Totally agree with you on the La7 but disagree on the N1K2. The N1K2 is even less of an uber plane than the La7. It's only redeeming trait is that at medium speeds its a good turner with cannons. Other than that, it's no better than any other plane. A lot of planes can out accelerate it, out dive it, out climb it and even out turn it.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Ghost flies an La7.
Above 12k it's below satisfactory.. Now where do 90% of all fights occur?
But then it's only positive feature is it's speed and that's it. Hardly any reason to perk it.
Ack-Ack
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i notice people who do not know the planes FM's..whine...
la7...easy..out turn tht hunk o crap..
niki..please its got big cannons and flys average,,sheesh..man ..practice!!!
hell the 109g10 neeeds perk before those two..
but perk planes right now are fine.....although i want a a cheaper chog...hehehe
yes ace ..u should be flamed..lolol
Love BiGB
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i seem to recall HT saying the perk system had somthing to do with the rarity of the craft in question.. why aint the 205 perked then?
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
i seem to recall HT saying the perk system had somthing to do with the rarity of the craft in question.. why aint the 205 perked then?
This is from the manual.
The perk system is a way for HTC to introduce some interesting but otherwise unbalancing planes on a limited basis but the benefits go deeper than that. Perk planes (and vehicles) would be things like Me 262s, Ta 152s, Tempests, B-29s, Ar 234s, Tiger IIs, etc. These are interesting rides but would be very unbalancing if they were available on an unlimited basis. So there won't be unlimited availability but they'll be available as bonuses or perks every so often.
Ack-Ack
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The 109G10 perked? any 109? My arse, it compresses at 450mph, it can't turn for chit, so why perk it? La7 turns better, accellerates better, and foes everything better than the 109G10 besides climb.
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Hmmm... if the entire premise is that this will be a mission based arena, why perk anything?
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
i notice people who do not know the planes FM's..whine...
la7...easy..out turn tht hunk o crap..
niki..please its got big cannons and flys average,,sheesh..man ..practice!!!
hell the 109g10 neeeds perk before those two..
but perk planes right now are fine.....although i want a a cheaper chog...hehehe
yes ace ..u should be flamed..lolol
Love BiGB
My purpose in "whine" has nothing to do with FM's. It's the over abundance of certain platforms that causes continued and worsening boredom with an otherwise outstanding past time.
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Perk the N1k?!
I guess us Japanese fans will just have to migrate to the ki-61 en mass... ohh the joy (actually its a great bird, but against d-9s/ ponys...uuggg)
Right.
That's why the total section of late-war birds should be perked. Besides, a perk doesn't necessarily mean punitive prices like on the Tempy - 8 points brought the Chog down to about the "average" level of 2~3%. Planes such as the La-7 and the N1K2 should be brought down to par compared to the other planes, with about 3~5 perk cost.
The D-9's probably the only plane besides the "Big4+1" which sees over 5% use. No doubt in me that both the G-10 and the D-9 needs simular perk costs.
It's only redeeming trait is that at medium speeds its a good turner with cannons. Other than that, it's no better than any other plane. A lot of planes can out accelerate it, out dive it, out climb it and even out turn it.
Again, they may not be a real problem to you on a personal level, however, step out of the top pilot's seat and look at it from the perspective of an average pilot - frankly, to an average pilot, the N1K2 or an La-7 is more than a handful.
Only a limited people have personal favorites to what planes they like - like you, for example, who loves the P-38, or like me, who loves the 109.
However, for the vast majority of people, their sense of "favorites" is most usually dictated by which plane allows them to be successful to their personal level of content - in that sense, some planes, are vastly easier to fly than others.
A very maneuverable plane with average speed and 900 rounds of quad-cannon layout, means very very much to the average pilot. As much, a plane that has a fair maneuverability, top notch acceleration and speed, and three cannons, is a dream for the inexperienced.
Those planes aren't any different from others, you say. But we must inevitably return to the question; "then why are they so exclusively favored among others, when they aren't really better than other planes?"
Answer: "because, to the average people out there, they indeed, are better than others."
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Leave the G10 alone, damnit. :mad:
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I think people are just tired of seeing the above planes. I know I am and I love the 51. I admit the N1K2 does some wierd things like hover and so forth but it can be handled. LA7s are frustrating when there are a pack of them which is usually the case. Spits blah. Hurri IIc eats them up. They always wanna turn fight. The perking of these planes is only to get people to fly something else IMO.
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Holy crap. Did jam just shamelessly plug the Hurri!?
GOOD MAN! :D
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Yes I did that is my new ride... You were right Rutty... Myself and JL fly the hurri every night now. Its UBER...
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Liar, you just want me back :p
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Chk my stats
Model type Kills In Kills Of
Hurricane IIC 100 4
Model type Killed By Died In
Hurricane IIC 1 33
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gasp! let's not hijack. moving along.
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Seems like the most dangerous planes out there are the Spit9 and the D-Pony. The La7 is way down on the list of planes that has killed me this tour.