Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: XtrmeJ on July 14, 2003, 07:28:15 AM
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I have heard some talk that "landing" or returning to base for ammo is "wussie". Personally i think this is not true. After going out to an enemy field then returning to base is a sense of accomplishment. If i happen to run out of ammo i am going to RTB and not auger my plane. Others think that if you run outa ammo you should just auger and grab another. God forbid that you run outa ammo and/or gas that you should rtb. I think this is the wrong way to go about it. Personally I want to know what you think.. Am I a score potato because I land my kills? :D Let the thrashing begin!
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Different strokes for different folks. It all depends on how you approach the sim.
Lots of people just like to up in an La-7 or Spit and dive into the nearest, largest furball they can find, and see how many kills they can get before they get killed. Over and over.
Personally, I like the added challenges of flying a lesser-performing plane and trying to keep my virtual hide alive, but it's their dime. Just because more people fly a certain way doesn't make it right.
I think you'll like the new Mission Theater concept with AHII. Stay tuned.
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I like to land them myself. I don’t always get that choice but if I’m bingo amo, I’m RTB.
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If I'm low on ammo or fuel that I run the risk of running empty of either in the middle of a fight, damn straight I'm going to try to return to base if I can. But that's usually the only time I'll consider trying to go out of my way and land, unless I have battle damage and can no longer fight, in that case I'll try to nurse my damaged plane home.
Ack-Ack
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It depends on how desperate we are to hold the front line. If there aren't any replacement pilots coming, I'll hold out as long as I can, until I either run out of gas or ammo or both (usually gas first). Otherwise I'll keep reloading until I get tired or get shot down.
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i like to get as many kills as possible then rtb...
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I to like to rtb and land my kills if low fuel or no ammo.
Depends how far behind the lines I am as to what I set as minimum fuel before I RTB. Also I will try not to blow all my ammo and save just enough to go defensive if I have to while RTBing.
As a matter of fact XtrmeJ you jumped me in a 262 as I was trying to RTB just the other night. I was in a YAK working my way thru a valley with no ammo.
Long story short you finally blasted me.
I would have liked to have landed my 6 kills but, such is life.
<< S >>
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Being able to land with damage and with kills is big fun in my book
its a challenge..specially when half the plane is shredded off...
Some people prefer quake though...We should have a quake type spawn arena where the quakers can spawn at 15k in whatever...
0J0T
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I never take off with the intent of a one way trip. They usually are, but I always intend on landing my aircraft.
Yes, even when I fly the Spitfire.
I've had some really great fights that I wished I'd filmed doing that. If I just augered when I ran out of ammo or flew 'till the engines quit I'd never have had those.
In my most memorable I was RTB in a Mossie that was on fumes and down to 60 rounds of 20mm ammo (still had 3120 rounds of .303) when I came across one of our C-47s that was smoking and under attack by an La-7. I went to WEP and dove what little altitude I had to try to intercept the La-7 before he got the C-47. I only managed to get close enough to fire a desparation burst at the La-7 if I were to save the C-47. Unfortunately my 20mm cannon ran dry without scoring a hit and the C-47 suffered for it, breaking up and crashing.
This left me in a Mossie, on fumes, with only .303s, down to 90 seconds of WEP, on the deck, closing on an La-7 and all alone. The La-7 started to weave back and forth to try to bleed my speed off so he could disengage and run (hey, it was an La-7, that's what they do) while I peppered him with .303s. I kept with him better than I thought I would as our energy bled off due to the manuvers. I guess he was worried about being smacked by my quad of 20mm cannon if he just leveled and ran, so he transitioned to a horizontal turn fight to try to pull around behind me. As he realized that he couldn't out turn (A Mossie on fumes and out of 20mm ammo turns pretty good) me he started adding verticle yo-yos to the fight, but I clung on peppering him with more .303s every now and then.
Then my WEP ran out. The La-7 began to pull away from my nose and the openings for my shots got fewer and shorter, but the La-7 pilot was getting desparate, after all it was only a matter of time before the 20mms connected. He started really pushing the La-7s limits on turning and what would have been my final shot came and went, but he was desparate to get out of my guns and kept pushing it. He pushed his La-7 too far though, flick stalled and slammed into the ground.
Who knows, maybe he had a pilot wound. I had pinged him up with .303s, but I think he was undamaged and was getting alarmed at his inability to escape the big lumbering Mossie that he thought should have been just a target and free kill to any La-7.
I returned to base, landing just before my fuel ran out.
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I allways, or, allmost allways, plan on surviving. Landing shot up is challenging and I get a lot of practice. If the field is very far away and there are good fights on the map I will go a little past halfway and ditch so as not to give a stat scewing death or an undeserved kill.
lazs
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Like someone else said, it may not turn out like I want, but I fully intend to land every time I take off. (There are times I know it won't happen, like when I'm defending a vulched field, but I still HOPE I'll be able to land.)
A HUGE part of my love for this game is the immersion factor that you can get if you try. Ignore the fact that you have allied and axis planes on both sides, and just let yourself get into the game. I have landed so often, covered in sweat and shaking, that I feel like I don't need to do real exercise. My heart is pounding, my hands are shaking and I can barely get out of the chair.
Some of my favorite fights have been me, desperate to get back to the field, nursing a damaged plane, trying to find the right blend of "low enough not to be seen, but high enough not to be meat if seen".
Ouch out
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Diving into fights with no ammo and low fuel is 'wussy?'
Seems like a rather silly concept to me. What are you gonna do? Spit on the guy in your sights?
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Landing is not a wussie thing. This thread is just a gimmick to lure noobies into flying to their death so that someone can get their kills.
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I'll let you know how I feel about this, once I have figured out how to survive long enough to think about landing.
In the meantime, I am no end of entertainment to others.
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LOL Skuzzy. As long as you have the full intent of returning to base thats fine. Alot of the times when i say "I am rtb for ammo" or "Im damaged" or anything that prohibits me from fighting, i get a few ppl who say just auger your plane and get back here as fast as you can. Now this is a simulation, and im trying to simulate what a WWII pilot would have dont in such a situation.
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It's not that it's "wussie", your just not a HOin Spitdweeb dreaming of flyin a Lala next flight as soon as ya dead.
..err... gamer.
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teamplayers auger!! they get back to the fight quicker!! stead of flying for 10 mins to rtb while your teammates are under fire...
SKurj
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Skurj is a perfect example of ppl I am talking about. I dont think its wrong to just auger when u are damaged or out of ammo/fuel but I just dont do it. I dont feel good about myself just plowing my plane into the ground as apposed to returning to base with a sense of accomplishment.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I allways, or, allmost allways, plan on surviving. Landing shot up is challenging and I get a lot of practice. If the field is very far away and there are good fights on the map I will go a little past halfway and ditch so as not to give a stat scewing death or an undeserved kill.
lazs
If the field is very far away? ROFLMAO
Translation: Extreme measures, out of field ack or out of sight of the sister squad to actual players where you can`t say " I don`t think it`s fair for you to get the kill, please don`t shoot a fellow butt sniffer down. :D
Here,let me help ya. Move the fields closer together and everyone fly in butt sniffer mode so I won`t look like such a wuss cause I can`t participate in the game because I`m CS.
A N1K? Plueezeeeeeeeeee lmao
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Us old farts started out in AW and/or WB when there were hefty hourly charges to play. It was not uncommon to have monthly bills in the $100-200s in those days. As a result, most folks were disinclined to RTB except on special occasions, because time not spent fighting was big money wasted. So most of us only tried hard to land in scenarios, or if we a higher kill score than normal and wanted that final flourish at the end of the film, or if we'd collected the pelt(s) of particularly Hated Enema(s) and wanted not only the filmed landing but the chance to taunt the victims on the radio while cruising homeward.
Of course, pretty much everybody set out with the intention of have a stellar sortie and landing it. There was very little of the kamikaze stuff you see so much of today. But if we only had a couple of kills and were low on ammo, we usually stayed in the fight until we died. We were paying a lot of money to fight, not cruise. Not many folks would intentionally auger, but most would make illogical engagement decisions and go down swinging.
Old habits are hard to break. To this day, I don't really get the strong desire to RTB unless I've done something special. Then it occurs to me that this would be a cool hop to land. I RTB a lot more now than I did in DOS AW, however, but that's mostly the result of the more detailed damage model in AH. I'll lose an aileron or get wounded or something and head for home, because it's no real fun to fight under those conditions, and getting home alive is then something of a challenge.
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This last p[oint is very true...I remember a time when RTB was as good as pissing $$$ down the poop chute.
Now that ;these issues are behind us, I enjoy nojhting more than L:ANDING the kills Ive gotten...or even RTB a shot to sheet without kills, just to add to the enjoyment of the entire experience. I especially like that you dont get "name in lights" untill you land em....now that was a stroke of brilliance!
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jakal... did you have a point?
lazs
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A HUGE part of my love for this game is the immersion factor that you can get if you try.
Ahh...yes....brings back a memory of an FB buff mission. There were 15 pilots, 45 bombers, a huge formation of all b17s. We were flying at our target a 20k or so...but suddenly our leader got disconnected and blew up right before our eyes. But we kept going to the target. We opened the bomb bay doors and calibrated. Suddenly flak and ack was everywhere. I watched several of the bombers in the formation fall victim to it, going down, down...We flew over the target and released the bombs. It was an amazing sight to see now about 40 bombers released all these bombs down toward the target. We completley leveled the field. Suddeny fighters came up and swarmed, completley breaking up the formation. another 5 bombers went down. My got pretty banged up in the fighters. I lost my flaps, my ball turret was disabled, and an elevator was missing. Now I was all alone, formation split up, damaged. I could have augered right then and there but I decided to go on. I wondered if I would ever make it home...I could have augered right then and there but decided to try to make it home. I had a rough landing when I finally made it back. One gear was stuck. It was a rough mission...but then I suddenly snapped awake to realize I was playing a game. If you try to do the things the realistic way, it can get really immersive...thats the point of this story.
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Originally posted by lazs2
jakal... did you have a point?
lazs
:D Swoossshhhh! Do you ever have one? I mean other than the top of your head.
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jakal.. I meant that your post was giberish. I assume that it had something to do with you not likeing me personaly?
lazs
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they just say they auger cause they are bingo... they just CANT make it back
making it back with a few kills is the point imo
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XtrmeJ,.... Have fun with it Bro ! do what you want to do. This is your $14.95 a month !
I'm kinda like you, to me, this is a WWII SIM, I always find myself asking, What would a Pilot in WWII do?
To me it depends on what is going on. example, I fly for a squadron. so on squad nights, if my presance is really needed to get the mission accomplished, I might auger, Not Always though! (I fly with a cool bunch of guys that , if you want to land your kills, they really support you and tell you to go for it.)
If I'm not flying Squad based missions, I'm lucky to go out , get a couple of kills , then land'em. Let's put it this way, I land 'em when I can ! :)
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Originally posted by lazs2
jakal.. I meant that your post was giberish. I assume that it had something to do with you not likeing me personaly?
lazs
Swooossshhh! There it goes again! :D
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Despite what XtremJ says ... +)
I fly to RTB (when I play) I fly solo thanks yee very much.
I don't expect help, and don't expect you to expect help +Q
Though when I am trying to rtb abit shot up or bingo, and I see friendlies fly past me going the other way when I have a con on my 6 I get peeved!! Thankfully your names are above your planes...
SKurj
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If I have no ammo and there is a friendly in trouble and im out of ammo I will try to help him. I can more than likly scare the guy away. If i am very low on fuel ill probably make a pass at the guy so at least the friendly will have the upper hand again.
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Try to bring it home to where I started from or anywhere close that is a friendly base if possible. Hell even a GV base will work for me. I just need to work on that nasty left twist on landing my Corsairs that always takes out my left wing or engine...but oh well I suck anyway and I only get lucky once in a while and land a few kills.
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Land dweebs..
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rut... meet jakal. mental giants such as yourselves should join up... sterling examples of the strat game.
lazs
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The clue is to land slow and pull the stick back abit when you feel its going right on the runway... the f4u will straighten up right away.
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Originally posted by Reschke
Try to bring it home to where I started from or anywhere close that is a friendly base if possible. Hell even a GV base will work for me. I just need to work on that nasty left twist on landing my Corsairs that always takes out my left wing or engine...but oh well I suck anyway and I only get lucky once in a while and land a few kills.
Reschke ...
The key to landing the F4U is to get the tailwheel on the ground.
Like Nilsen10 said ... come in a slow as you can. Once you hit the runway, DO NOT apply brakes (or gently tap them) until the speedo is under 100 mph. At that point, the tailwheel will settle on the ground. Once that happens, pull back on the stick to make sure it stays on the ground, then apply brakes (pumping them). Another good thing to do is to cut the engine ... the torque of the engine is one of the causes of the "twist".
Back on topic ...
Chased (well followed as best I could) a pony for more than a sector in my Spit V, back to his base after one unsuccessful high alt pass on his part. I was hoping that he would extend enough and turn back to fight but he dove into the canyons and ran.
What a fun sortie he had .. I mean, even if he turned and lost, at least he would have gained some experience, instead he learned nothing.
Why are people so afraid to die in this game? I don't like to get killed as much as the next guy, but please ... if I die I get a new life and a new plane and the experience of what I did right and wrong.
I just don't understand the "wussie logic".
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When I flew the -1a for tours at a time I found that a good way to land was to touch down and then push the stick forward while braking hard but only for a sec to bleed off excewss speed.. then, let the rear wheel touch and pull back hard on the stick while braking. or.....
leave the gear up and simply belly it in.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
rut... meet jakal. mental giants such as yourselves should join up... sterling examples of the strat game.
lazs
:D Too easy.
World meet Humpy The Wonder Pooch a.k.a. Laz , a sterling example of ...............well nothing..........unless maybe pres of Butt Sniffers Local 101 or Whiners Without A Clue.
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lazs, must i include a 'balloon smiley face' for you to understand ANYTHING?
No one is that clueless, not even you. (well, maybe). Sarcasm, lazsypoo, sarcasm.. sense of humor, joke. Stuff pretty alien to you, methinks.
Taaaaaaaaaaaaaaard, perfect example of the quake game.
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This is how mrcoffee lands f4u for guys who want to know.
After base leg, uppon approach, drop flaps at least two notches or perhaps even all the way out. Drop gears, if landing on CV, drop hook. Gradualy but progressively trim the airplane so that the nose is heavy. Stop triming when trim has reached maximum setting. You'll have to then pull back on the stick just a bit to ensure a proper glide path/angle to the ramp as you descent and drop further speed. When runway is just ahead, decrees engine speed down to about 2000 RPM. Modulate throttle as needed on landing, you should be near stall speed soon. Landing now is just a controlled stall at this point. Aircraft should come to stop very rapidly after landing.
This is how I would land it on a CV so you can actually come in a bit faster for runways with less flap but hey its a NAVY bird right, cough, cough do it NAVY style.)
Trim up and RPM down prevent the f4u from ground loops.
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When I take off on a flight, my intent is not to survive but to shoot down as many of the red guys as possible. Does this mean I don't try to survive? Of course not. If I am not going to survive, then how am I going to shoot down red guys?
What I am getting at is that I take off with the intent to shoot someone (hopefully many someones) down. If I was looking for a flight where I would take off and land every time, I would fly MS Flight Sim. If this makes me a bad person or a dweeb to you, go find someone else to save. I tried the whole fly to live thing and I found it boring. Realism police and score potatos please take note. This is my feeling on the matter, and I don't care how you fly as long as you don't care how I fly.
Keep in mind this is my approach to the MA. Scenarios are a different story, and I am sure this is probably going to be the case as well with the Mission Theater. In those places, I fly to accomplish the mission I am assigned.
Anyway, those are just my ramblings on this. Take it with the provebial grain of salt.
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Thats always my intent math, I like your thinking. My goal is to shoot as many down as possible. If i run outa ammo or fuel I will RTB. But if I die fighting well then theres not much that can be done except maybe trying to get 1 or 2 on the way down.
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rut.. you are a perfect example of the non furballer... you can't even get up enough enthusiasm to play anymore. you even bore yourself.
lazs
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You should pay attention lazs, prevents you from lookin like a bigger fool.. My joystick's broken, and I need a new HDD (this 19 gig isnt cutting it), a new processor, more RAM. a new puter, etc..
I cancelled my subscription so i could get a bit of extra money, and i can't do anything but fly a goon eith this damn mouse. Believe me, i'de be there to battle your fuel bunkers and toolsheds if i could.
(Edit: continuation)
Lazs, you probably don't care, you've probably heard it a thousand times before, but you're a perfect example of a whining furballing self-centered change-the-game-for-me turd.
You peruse these boards, looking for any place you could shamelessly plug your shorter field distance agenda, complain and bicker about everything that stops you from 'fragging' people (I believe that's the term Quake uses) in an on the deck, swirling mass of N1Ks, La7s an P51s (and P47 now). Fly n Die. The rest of the game simply gets in the way, the strat, the realism, all of it.
The Strat.. You hate it!
The CT.. What's that?
DA? What DA? We can't furball there! It's perfect, and 'furballers just need a place', but we can all see that isnt true.
Leave? You can't, someone handcuffed you to your chair.
Answer the queastion everyone's DIEING to know..
WHY are you here?
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rut.. if you can't afford to play then you need to do what jakal did and get a bigger paper route.
lazs
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Oops, dbl post.. sorta
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Originally posted by lazs2
rut.. if you can't afford to play then you need to do what jakal did and get a bigger paper route.
lazs
Aint it cute when the little Humper (Laz) either hasn`t got the cajones or can`t come up with two firing brain cells at the same time to make a statement to someone or on a subject?
Use those learning sites I gave you or you will be eternaly stuck in Whinerland without a clue. :D
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Originally posted by SKurj
teamplayers auger!! they get back to the fight quicker!! stead of flying for 10 mins to rtb while your teammates are under fire...
SKurj
Nawnawnaw, teamplayers realize they're in a bad situation and help eachother in a fighting withdrawal, so that they all may rtb and live to fight another day.
Suicidedweebs auger.
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jakal said... "Aint it cute when the little Humper (Laz) either hasn`t got the cajones or can`t come up with two firing brain cells at the same time to make a statement to someone or on a subject? "
followed by....
"Use those learning sites I gave you or you will be eternaly stuck in Whinerland without a clue. "
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Again.. thank you and Rutilunt for pointing me to the...... "minus learning site for angry and incomprehensible posting"....... I do appreciate the effort and I can see all it has done for you two.
lazs
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I always plan on a one-way trip even if it doesn't turn out that way, and I miraculously wind up landing the sortie. I find that keeping a mindset where I expect to die removes stress, makes things fun, and means that surviving to land after killing plenty of bad guys becomes so much sweeter. It also means that I'll fly just as aggressively with one kill as with 15 kills since it's all the same to me. The fight is what matters.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I think a plane that is so far from a friendly field with so few fuel and so low alt that it can't possibly return home should just blow up. (except when a the nme just captured the field that was intended for return or fuel is missing because of a fuel leak).
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Originally posted by lazs2
jakal said... "Aint it cute when the little Humper (Laz) either hasn`t got the cajones or can`t come up with two firing brain cells at the same time to make a statement to someone or on a subject? "
followed by....
"Use those learning sites I gave you or you will be eternaly stuck in Whinerland without a clue. "
__________________
Again.. thank you and Rutilunt for pointing me to the...... "minus learning site for angry and incomprehensible posting"....... I do appreciate the effort and I can see all it has done for you two.
lazs
See there you go again, DOH! That`s the sites you use for your posting.
You need to go to the preschool comprehension site I sent you, but, I know you didn`t comprehend that.
Old uncle Jackal will get you on the right track though. :D
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why yes.... certainly jakal... now just relax... no one here is trying to harm you..
lazs
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Landing a plane with or without some kills under your belt, leaking 2 1/2 types of fluid, missing control surfaces and trailing a dozen N1Ks is THE RUSH for me.
I think it`s the difference between Airquake and role-playing. Of course I ruin my k/t in a half hour run home, but the cigarette after touchdown tastes so much better.
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I also like Levi's way of thinking. If more people flew like you im certain that we would see more and more teamwork threw out the game. Even if you end up dieing, as long as you have killed as many of the red guys as possible and/or saved somone from a "not so good fate" it might make the game a little more fun, and a little less stressful.
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Originally posted by lazs2
why yes.... certainly jakal... now just relax... no one here is trying to harm you..
lazs
lmao
tsskkk tsskkk Text tantrums will get you
nowhere on the road to higher understanding.
No more Milkduds before bedtime for you Humpy.:D