Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: StSanta on May 11, 2001, 12:10:00 PM
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I'm writing this in the public forum because I, and at least some others, need more information regarding Nath's ban and HTC's guidelines with regards to bans/warnings.
Nath's behaviour that night wasn't very good. He openly critizised on ch1 certain aspects of the game, that since have been discussed and beaten into enough dead horses to provide hamburgers for a smaller nation for a year. More specifically, there was critique about the island map and cv's in general, as well as some FM issues.
All of which have been discussed, more civilly but equally critically, on this BBS by various members of this community.
It's now 6 weeks since Nath was banned. Since then, I've taken multiple screenshots of newbies and veterans alike behaving badly. One guy in particular, gunman26, has behaved in a very destructive manner. He is, however, still in the game.
This guy calls people potatos, squeakes and whatnot and is a constant nuisance. He is making the AH community look like a hostile one full of a bunch of misogynic homophobic idiots.
When Nath was banned, initially there was a flood of posts full of schadenfreude. Later, people's brains started working again and more sensible comments on the subject was made. Arguments and counterarguments were made.
One of these was "HTC is drawing the line". I believe it's true and that they have.
It is not clear to me HOW they have drawn the line - quite clearly abusing newbies and veterans alike isn't enough for an immediate ban.
So, what I'm asking for is perhaps a "rules of conduct and general guidelines" file - something that explicitly tells people what HTC policy is.
Gunman26 is still in the game - Nath ain't. Haven't seen an apology from gunman26, but I have seen Nath apologize, and I'm confident that he has learned from this whole experience.
But, the decision is up to HTC for reasons they do not have to explain. Of course a company like this is partly dependent on qualitative things that are hard to measure, like goodwill from customers so there's a balance that has to be found.
What I and the rest of the squaddies would like to know is "will Nath be unbanned?" and if so "when?".
I won't question HTC's right to do as they please with their product. But I'd really appreciate a tad bit more info on the nath situation, and general guidelines.
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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He got what he deserved. I've been online when he was talking to HT and on his place I would have ban the guy too. I really don't care how much of a good flier he was, all I care about is that there is one less annoying person in the arena. I just hope HTC will ban others too, this would make MA much more enjoyable place to be in.
mx22
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This post isn't about that mx22, as stated.
Please don't hijack the thread, I feel this one is important.
The essence of the post is about guidelines. Added to it is a personal 9./JG 54 question regarding if we are gonna see him back, and if so when
And, I feel it is important for us to know guidelines, and know whether nath will come back or not (us squaddies would like to know).
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 05-11-2001).]
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I think the difference is that Nath personally attacked the staff at HTC whereas the other idiots you mentioned are just being obnoxious.
So my take on the guidelines are thus: if you are going to call ANYONE an amazinhunk, make sure they dont work for HTC.
-Ding
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Originally posted by mx22:
He got what he deserved.
I don't think StSanta is arguing whether or not Nath deserved to be banned. Rather, he's arguing whether or not Nath's actions were so anathema to the community that he still deserves a perma-ban while others in the community -- gunman26, Citabria when it's that time of the month, and more -- have acted in ways that I'd consider equal to if not worse without consequence.
Obviously Nath's banning hasn't acted as a deterrent to such behavior. So the question then turns to why the punishment was so disproportionate to that of the others. That's a fair question IMO.
-- Todd/DMF
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My $.02 on this subject.
I also think gunman is out of line and needs to be removed from the game.
I see no reason to bring back Nath even though I do think his apology does show at least the potential to "grow" a bit. His behavior was not a sometime thing but was the rule for him. For that reason I think gunman needs to suffer the same consequences.
Santa, I applaud your loyalty to a squaddie but I do not think the game needs Nath back.
Mav
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Yes, that was the point. You put it more precise and eloquent than I did.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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More disciplin = more fun.
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Originally posted by Dingy:
So my take on the guidelines are thus: if you are going to call ANYONE an amazinhunk, make sure they dont work for HTC.
-Ding
Dingy S!
the politics of the cult are different from the ethics or acceptable behavior in the game.
just let it lay StSanta, but you said well what didn't need to be said. S!
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This gunman26 guy is the first person I've ever felt the need to .squelch when playing AH. He seems to have to make at least one profane comment on the open channel everytime he gets shot down. That would equal a lot of comments. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I'd say if HTC doesn't ban him, they should implement a perma-squelch on his radio buffer.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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I talked to HT about this kind of thing once.
He made some good points. If you publish standards, and someone violates them with nobody around from HTC to see it, will the other players complain and blame HTC for failure to maintain in the game the standards?
We also know how some immature types like to tap dance around any set rules. HTC instituted a language filter because of all the quake rejects, and some of these fools just had to prove they are determined to act stupid by slightly altering the way they spell banned swear words.
You want HT to set firm behavior rules? He wont. Does anyone really need them? Cant we police our own actions and not need written rules just so we can see how close we can get to them?
Most mature individuals have no problem in Aces High behaving in a decent manner. Only very rare, very immature fools will ever be "muted", and an even rarer fool will be banned by his extremely poor behavior.
This game is HT's livelyhood, as it is for the other 5 colleagues of his at HTC. They need to excerise a small measure of control so a select few dont drive away numerous paying customers. Just as important in my mind, is the fact that nobody who works even half as hard as the HTC folks wants to put up with anyone continually slamming their efforts. The HTC team work very hard to give us a great product, putting their all into it. It just isnt fair for them to take abuse every time they get online. This just drives a wedge between them and the players. Most of us want open lines of communication with HTC, we like to be able to see them online to ask question, offer suggestions and enjoy some level of friendship. I, nor do most players appreciate a few jerks from making their online time aggravating and keeping them away.
Will Nath be allowed back? That of course is for HTC to decide, but if I were allowed a vote, it would be no. At least not until he grows and matures, and that from what I have seen will take years, not a few weeks.
Dago
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Originally posted by Dingy:
So my take on the guidelines are thus: if you are going to call ANYONE an amazinhunk, make sure they dont work for HTC.
I wasn't there, but my understanding is that Nath did not call anyone at HTC an amazinhunk. Funny how these things get filtered through the grapevine and turned into something different than what actually occurred.
-- Todd/DMF
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Has anyone ever been banned that simply and consistantly used common courtesy and civility in their dealings with other players/people?
I think those guidelines are obvious, simple and clear enough, don't you?
I don't expect HTC to write out a 1000 page "don't" list that covers every single possible situation. These situations are and ALWAYS WILL BE judgement calls.
I'm fortunate in my job that I'm the one that makes these calls. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) With all the "air rage" cases going around situations may arise that call for "banning" (land and unload the offending person into the waiting arms of law enforcement).
Guess what? I don't have a personal written policy and neither does my company. It's a judgement call and the decision is made by the appropriate on-scene authority. Me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I'm aware of gunman26 as well. I watched his chat very carefully last night. I think he stayed within bounds, at least on Ch1 and Ch2. If he doesn't, don't think I won't mention it to him private (and forward screens to HTC if I think its necessary. I agree that all players share in the responsibility for the playing environment.) That wouldn't be sufficient evidence alone, however. It would be just one more factor in the ultimate decision.
In your area of concern, the decision wasn't made over one particular instance. It was a cumulative, long term situation I believe.
The same process is most likely going on in gunman26's case (as well as a few others). If and when the axe falls, their will be a sufficient, documented history to justify it I am sure.
As to anyone returning that again would be a judgement call that is solely the responsibility of HTC. This game belongs to them. Again, I see absolutely no need for written guidance.
HOw to avoid Banning? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Real simple, obvious rule.
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 05-11-2001).]
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In defense of HT, You surely cannot expect HT to release any information about any actions they may or may not take on a player.
If you see other people doing things that you think are inappropriate/offensive, you have a choice of squelching, filing a complaint, or doing nothing about it.
Remember, because you see someone else doing it, does not make it right. They just have not been caught. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
ATC
(http://www.damned.org/images/ddemo1.gif)
[This message has been edited by DamnedATC (edited 05-14-2001).]
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I love running a good streak against that chisel monkey gunman. And BTW just because he says stuff on channel is bad wait until you see what he sends you on private (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by AG Sachsenberg:
And BTW just because he says stuff on channel is bad wait until you see what he sends you on private (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
He sends me love notes and things about butterflies, flowers, and heart shaped candies being sent to my house..
It is extremely unsettling and disturbing, especially when he goes into his long winded love notes about how he'd bring the stars to me but they could never be as bright as me...
I dunno, this fella is definitely disturbed.
<G>
-SW
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flog the dead horse...hasnt this already been discussed? You guys want an apology, you wont get one from me.
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Originally posted by Mr. T:
He sends me love notes and things about butterflies, flowers, and heart shaped candies being sent to my house..
It is extremely unsettling and disturbing, especially when he goes into his long winded love notes about how he'd bring the stars to me but they could never be as bright as me...
I dunno, this fella is definitely disturbed.
<G>
-SW
So what your saying is gunman is a cheater? That no good two timin air monkey. I thought he only sent me those kind of messages.
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Originally posted by SethK:
flog the dead horse...hasnt this already been discussed? You guys want an apology, you wont get one from me.
I've already found you out boy!
Underneath that fake hard candy shell of yours shrouded by vulgarity and incompetence is this lil' dorky LuftWiener.
Full of love, and good will. You can't hide that lisp forever, and the way you fly shows you are quite obviously limp wristed.
You think you have me fooled boy? I know your secrets, I know you try to act like a hard ass... but it still shows through... you're the biggest candy bellybutton of all the LuftWieners.
Santa, Grunherz and Hazed all bundled into one lisping, limp wristed, loving, buttmonkey, bundle of gayness.
Ahhhh, come on out of the closet Seth... you know you can find friends here. We already have several LimpWristed LittleWiener LispWaffe squads... I'm sure they'll just LOVE you up.. err love to have you IN their "squad" (bath houses)
So come on Seth, quit peaking out of that closet and come all the way out.. I can see you in there!
-SW
[This message has been edited by Mr. T (edited 05-11-2001).]
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WELL my thought is this iv never had a problum with gunman26 myself ...maybe hes not got around to me yet who knows heheh
iv had only 1 person that i had a problum with BIGJUG...SOME ONE POSTED A WHILE BACK ON THIS PERSON AND AS FAR AS I KNOW HE NOW KEEPS IT TO HIMSELF...... i dont like this punk but the comunity resonded hard on this person and he seems to have quit his trash talk...thank god ...try it with gunman26 if it dont help i say the comunity make a post and post screen shots of his actions ..if you get enough maybe HT will do someting
as it shows the comunity will ..i guess unite to complane in 1 form and see what HT thinks and does if anything i think it might be worth a try at least i feel some peaple need to be checked so to speak .
just my thought
PS. on nath i dont miss him...feel sorry for him is all
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DRILL
[This message has been edited by DRILL (edited 05-11-2001).]
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Originally posted by AG Sachsenberg:
So what your saying is gunman is a cheater? That no good two timin air monkey. I thought he only sent me those kind of messages.
Yup, I'm sorry you had to hear it from me... it's sad when it has to come from another person.
I'm sorry Sturm, I had no idea.. he kept telling me *I* was the only one.
That lying dirty bastard!
-SW
:-)
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I don't expect HTC to publish "rules". It's not that cut and dried.
Use common sense and you don't have to worry about it.
Keep in mind, Nath had a long history of poor behaviour, and neither I, StSanta, nor anyone else here knew the whole extent of it.
I'm betting it's permanent, and I hope HTC refuse to even discuss it. Guys like Nath cost HTC time with complaints, monitoring, etc. It just makes sense for them not to allow him back in simply based on the extra time it would likely cost them. By going through the extra time and BS to permanenty ban somebody, they at least ensure that they don't have to waste time with that particular problem indivudual in the future. Letting such people back in is a bad risk, and there is no potential reward I can see.
I hope they skip over these threads too. I'd rather they spend their time working on game updates.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://lephturn.webhop.net) for AH articles and training info!
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So now im gay...last time i checked to wrongs dont make a right...pathetic that you have to resort to questioning my sexuality to try and knock me down
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Originally posted by SethK:
So now im gay
This was already quite obvious to us, glad you can come to terms with yourself.
-SW
hehehehe
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AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED:
HTC is a privately owned business and reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
Nath acted like a salamander and got kicked out of the establishment by the owners who were tired of his behavior. Hopefully he has learned his lesson and wont be ejected from future businesses.
Thats enough.
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 05-11-2001).]
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
By going through the extra time and BS to permanenty ban somebody, they at least ensure that they don't have to waste time with that particular problem indivudual in the future. Letting such people back in is a bad risk, and there is no potential reward I can see.
Like many of the others here, you're attacking Nath and the justifications for banning him rather than the real problem that StSanta raised, which is the disequality of enforcement and punishment.
Few would argue, I think, that Nath didn't deserve to be banned for some period of time. However, I've seen far worse behavior from gunman26 and Citabria, the only difference being perhaps that their behavior did not occur while any HTC employees were present. Yet still these players and others continue to play without any punishment whatsoever.
As I've stated before, it's clear that Nath's banning did not have the deterrent effect that HTC had hoped. That said, HTC must either step to the plate by showing consistency in their unwillingness to tolerate disruption by others, or they must show equality and fairness in their punishment toward Nath.
And please don't argue that Nath was somehow some special "exception" because he was amazingly more disruptive or mentally debilitating to HTC than everyone else. I don't buy it.
-- Todd/DMF
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No Yeager, now this is enough.
(takes a shot at the last word) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Dago
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HTC Will not comment on anything we do in relation with any given player. That quite simply is between us and any player in question only.
HiTech
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if gunman26 hasnt earned a banning and nathbdp has, then it is kinda blurring the lines as to what is acceptable behavior! i thought a precedent was established with nath's banning.....guess it's more arbitrary or mysterious than that.
normally, the channel 1 irritations are spoiled brats who have a widdle temper tantrum when they dont get what they want....or feel the need to explain how they lost/won every kill....this gunman guy is on the offensive even when he's winning!
i dont remember people gathering to ask for nath to be banned...gunman26 is an irritant to the whole community, including people who dont even normally get along in alliances. i think that says somehting. the community has no direct recourse other than the squelch command i think they are appealing for justice.
i guess we just have to keep squelching him or listen to him pathetically cry out for attention night after night. kinda like regular society - the mass of ok people have to deal with the 'rights' of one or two bad apples. i mean 99.9% of us wouldn't steal but 100% of us lock our door at night -
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Alright, this should REALLY be in a private email to HTC if you are REALLY interested in the answers to your questions as opposed to trying to apply some public pressure on HTC to let Nath back in.
The biggest difference I see between the two situations is that Nath was asked to correct his behavior by Hitech and instead of complying, he thumbed his nose publicly at HT and said with his actions "I am not going to do as you ask, I will do whatever I want, you cannot make me."
Has this other guy, for all his twitishness, done this yet? Until he has, you are comparing apples and oranges, Santa. As for Nath coming back, I had more sympathy for the guy prior to reading this thread.
Gordo
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If Nath sucked as a pilot, this thread would never be here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Heh heh fishy....you talking about that weird little "white dot" that keeps getting reported on channel 1? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by mrfish:
i mean 99.9% of us wouldn't steal but 100% of us lock our door at night -
Hehe, there is an old saying:
"Locks were invented to keep people honest"
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Originally posted by Dago:
You want HT to set firm behavior rules? He wont. Does anyone really need them? Cant we police our own actions and not need written rules just so we can see how close we can get to them?
We can't police our own actions exactly for the reasons that it is not a democracy - it is a private company.
We do not have privilege to affect other players, so how could we have responcibility to do so?
You are not expected or even allowed to go to the restaurant and making other patrons behave - bouncers are paid and empowered to do that. You can bring a problem to teh owner's attention, that's all.
Speaking frankly, in my eyes enormous technological advantage and better connect quality of AH over it's competitor WB is barely enough to compensate for the smut one has to read when playing it.
Actually, WB's technological inferiority and less aggressive marketing (no free weeks) may be responcible for less trash among it's customers. It would be nice if the incoming WBIII blew AH out of the water graphically and attracted all that trash away from AH...
Guidelines and rules of behavior is a long-overdue feature for AH.
miko
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AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED:
HTC is a privately owned business and reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
Nath acted like a salamander and got kicked out of the establishment by the owners who were tired of his behavior. Hopefully he has learned his lesson and wont be ejected from future businesses.
Thats enough.
Is it? What about the flames and trash talk like the following:
I've already found you out boy!
Underneath that fake hard candy shell of yours shrouded by vulgarity and incompetence is this lil' dorky LuftWiener.
Full of love, and good will. You can't hide that lisp forever, and the way you fly shows you are quite obviously limp wristed.
You think you have me fooled boy? I know your secrets, I know you try to act like a hard ass... but it still shows through... you're the biggest candy bellybutton of all the LuftWieners.
Santa, Grunherz and Hazed all bundled into one lisping, limp wristed, loving, buttmonkey, bundle of gayness.
Ahhhh, come on out of the closet Seth... you know you can find friends here. We already have several LimpWristed LittleWiener LispWaffe squads... I'm sure they'll just LOVE you up.. err love to have you IN their "squad" (bath houses)
So come on Seth, quit peaking out of that closet and come all the way out.. I can see you in there!
-SW
IMO this kind of continual trash is good reason to be banned from the UBB, whens the last time you read a positive thread or comment from this guy?
Its way past time to make an example of this guy. Any comment made he doesn't agree with invariably get a similar response.
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Ok, sorry to start a long thread about this again HiTech. All I wanted was some kind of answer and you've given it to me.
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Ok, sorry to start a long thread about this again HiTech. All I wanted was some kind of answer and you've given it to me.
BS, you KNOW what a thread like this would do. You are full of it. Public My a....
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Mr. T you are just so damn obsessed bout "gayness", are you sure there isnt something you wanna tell us?
Please understand we the AH community will accept you Mr.T and your girlfirend DejaVu, no matter what kind of lifestlyle you lead.
Be honest to yourself Mr T..... POS
[This message has been edited by GRUNHERZ (edited 05-11-2001).]
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Is this Grun guy a Knight?, cause I do not remember ever shooting him down. The name is farmiliar so I believe he is a Knight. And I do not recall him really abusing us, the Knights. However, maybe the next time he gets on someone we can, as a country talk to him and get him to calm down.
My only suggestion is to take a screen shot of the buffer when he starts going off. Send that screen to HT or keep a diary of screens then take that to HT. If the moron is being an Angle when someone from HT is on and a retard when HT is not on, then this is all we can do.
Maybe it is HT's brother-in-law or something (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And to add, Nath just pushed all the bad buttons on HT and got jacked up. Simple as that.
Furthermore, I hope this does not make HT take time from new planes, patches and updates, just so they can add some additional policing time on the buffer. I am not paying 30 dollars a month for HT to police the buffer, which they do not do with any great frequency. I am paying for a kick prettythang game to be developed, which they do every day (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I think as customers HT has certain expectations of us as members of this game. I.E. We are adults and we can, as a group, bring distasteful actions or behavior to him. When he gets tired of getting emails on a certain subject or his complaint folder runeth over, then he will do something.
[This message has been edited by Jebo44 (edited 05-11-2001).]
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What Toad, Yeager, Lephturn and Dago said. It's not very hard to understand, really. But I suppose it all depends on how you were raised to treat other people.
[This message has been edited by banana (edited 05-11-2001).]
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Thats right Rip.
If Nath hadnt been such a good pilot, people would have not cared for his behaviour in the first place.
Its the fact that he pissed them off and he beat them, too.
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The old R/C club I belonged to(the Balsa Bashers) used sponsors to keep people in check for the 1st few months of membership. If you could not follow the rules,(tight feild, which required strict rules) your sponsor may drop you for fear of losing his own membership. If you got dropped you where no longer a member.
Im not suggesting Nath be required a sponsor to rejoin, but I wonder how many would step forward if asked...
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Sometimes its not a matter of who deserves to be banned, but rather who asked for it.
AKDejaVu
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gunman26?ha-ha hee-hee tough guy on the buffer sounds like a little girl on RW.
Tune him in you will see (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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(http://www.trilizio.org/ussf/3rdpursuit.gif)
[This message has been edited by elstevie (edited 05-11-2001).]
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Originally posted by Camel:
The old R/C club I belonged to(the Balsa Bashers) used sponsors to keep people in check for the 1st few months of membership. If you could not follow the rules,(tight feild, which required strict rules) your sponsor may drop you for fear of losing his own membership. If you got dropped you where no longer a member.
Im not suggesting Nath be required a sponsor to rejoin, but I wonder how many would step forward if asked...
<edit> Rules,
Lets assume he understands basic rule #1. "being disruptive to others in the community and with the staff, will get you banned."
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Originally posted by Animal:
Thats right Rip.
If Nath hadnt been such a good pilot, people would have not cared for his behaviour in the first place.
Its the fact that he pissed them off and he beat them, too.
Er, no. I think Rip meant that no one would be defending him if he wasn't a great pilot.
There have been others that have been tucked into a closet before, and you didn't see this kind of response. None of them had a sliver of Nath's talent, either.
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Originally posted by elstevie:
gunman26?ha-ha hee-hee tough guy on the buffer sounds like a little girl on RW.
Tune him in you will see (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
bwahahaha lmao (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Is there a case here for some customer feedback? I realise that HT had the final word but how about HTC setting up a mechanism by which we, the paying customers, have some say in this?
HTC can't police the arena all the time, but we can. If there was a PUBLIC way of reporting these guys,two things might happen:
1. HTC would quickly become aware of individuals who were pissing off the community at large but who he may not have personally come across.
2. The individuals concerned, seeing their names coming up on this 'board' all the time and knowing what the implications are, might -just might - decide to back off.
I appreciate that one or two people might try to use the system to conduct private vendettas against individuals who they just don't like. But 'posts' of this nature would soon be exposed for what they are by the lack of any supporting testimony. So the guys doing it would just look pretty stupid and soon get the message.
How about it?
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Originally posted by Dingy:
I think the difference is that Nath personally attacked the staff at HTC whereas the other idiots you mentioned are just being obnoxious.
So my take on the guidelines are thus: if you are going to call ANYONE an amazinhunk, make sure they dont work for HTC.
-Ding
OK so let me get this clear in my head. There is a guy on these boards who regularly posts about the 'idiotic perk point system'.
Now my dictionary defines an 'idiot' as, inter alia, "a mentally retarded person .....", and an 'idiotic idea' as "a thought or concept put forward or proposed by an idiot".
Now the perk point system was, of course, an idea of HT's. Therefore, this individual is directly criticising HT as an idiot each and every time he posts about the 'idiotic perk point system'.
Has he been threatened with banning? Has he been emailed by HTC warning of a possible life ban if he continues to complain?
Was it because Nath made his comments on open channel, where up to 260 people could see what he was saying? Well, how many people read THESE boards, and read of the complaints about the 'idiotic perk point system'.
OK, insult the developers and expect to be banned - that's fine. But does it apply to everyone?
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I have no comment on Naths banning..... but he is one of the most skilled pilots I ever fought or flew with. It is a loss for the game not to be able to fly against the few great ones that come along. I wish he had not behaved the way he did and I accept HTCs desission. There is a lot to learn from fighting with pilots like NathNBP but there is a very important lesson for us all to learn. We all need to show each other and HTC staff.....RESPECT & COURTESY ...
<S> NathBDP... (as a pilot)... if you ever read this.
Thunder
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<cough> double standard<cough>
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but he is one of the most skilled pilots I ever fought or flew with. It is a loss for the game not to be able to fly against the few great ones that come along.
====
Jeepers Thunder, he wasnt like scop or anything (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
SCOP IS GOD! KILL KILL KILL!!!!
Y
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Sometimes its not a matter of who deserves to be banned, but rather who asked for it.
The other week, Citabria went off on Channel 1 after being shot down in a Tempest. He managed to insult both those of Japanese heritage and homosexuals in one sentence while also throwing out a number of other colorful words. This went on for five minutes.
He then insisted that he hoped such actions would result in his banning.
You can't "ask for it" any more clearly than that IMO, and yet to my knowledge HTC did not ban him for it. It does raise some questions of double standards.
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by elstevie:
gunman26?ha-ha hee-hee tough guy on the buffer sounds like a little girl on RW.
Tune him in you will see
gee i wonder why i say half the toejam i do
bring it on sissy...ill stomp a mudhole in ya
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Nath has been in the chat room a few times, and struck me as pretty civil, maybe even humbled about being punted. Dunno, whether Nath will ever be allowed back into Aces High rate up there with 'Are there such things as ghosts?' and 'Are there really UFOs?". In short, I don't know the answer and don't suspect we'll really ever know. Nath ran his mouth off pretty good to the boss-man (i was online when he was doing this) and all but played chicken with HiTech to be banned. He lost, and he's out. Does he have regrets? Probably. But those are the rules, and HiTech can make exceptions as he sees fit. Not what WE see fit.
Gunman is getting up there on the amazinhunk list. I've flown with him as a Bish and now fly against him as a Knight. Both times I couldnt beleive the things he was saying.
What is clear to me is that since Nath got throw out, the effort to moderate the main arena has disappeared. For a while, radio channel 1 was so sweet and nice, I thought you guys were going put the local florists outta biz, wanting to buy each other purty-little-flowers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But now its back to its old self, with a few notables like Gunman pissing people off. Where, I ask, is the moderators?
2 cents aired (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
------------------
Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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I try not to post to these boards to much or for the matter of fact talk on
the radio in the main arena. Every time I do it starts a major stink for some
reason. When some one owns a business and they are having trouble out of the
employees or the customers the OWNERS have to step up and make and example out
of someone to try and calm things down. To me Nath was the example that didn't
change anything. The radio buffer in the arena is still bad.
If Htc lets Nath come back they will be showing a sign of weakness.
THEN AGAIN Everyone deserves the chance to redeem themselves for the mistakes they make.
This is a very tough judgement call for HTC that im glad i don't have to make.
I myself think Nath deserves another chance. If I were HTC I would let him come
back but if I so much as heard one whine one whimper out of him he would be gone
for good.
RWY
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I am sorry to say this, but some of the posts in this thread strike me as a little pathetic.
Whether Nath was any good in AH is absolutely irrelevant. Completly irrelevant. What happened to him was of his own doing, his behaviour went way over the line.
Have others behaved badly? Yes, absolutely.
Have they been banned? No, certainly not all, if any of them.
Why is that and is it fair?
Maybe they weren't observed by HTC. Maybe they are guilty of just one or two occasions of bad judgement. Maybe they weren't stupid enough to repeatadly poke HT in the eye.
Is it fair that Nath got banned and not the others? It doesnt matter. Nope, not a bit. He did what he did, and now he pays the price. Guess what? Life isn't fair. Damn near nothing is fair. The plain simple fact is that Nath did what he did and now he has to accept the consequences. REGARDLESS of the fact that others have acted badly and not been banned.
To say "so and so did this" or "some other guy did that" as a reason Nath shouldnt be banned is ridiculous.
Should gunman26 be banned? I havent heard his nonsense myself, I normally squelch ch 1, but from what I hear, hell yes he should. But dont use this one jerks sorry case of arrested mental developement as an excuse for Naths behavior.
My opinion is this, everything else is irrelevant, he was warned, he continued to act badly, and he pays the price.
Dago
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You can't "ask for it" any more clearly than that IMO, and yet to my knowledge HTC did not ban him for it. It does raise some questions of double standards.
No, double standards have nothing to do with it. If anyone would have gone of on HT that day the same way Nath did, they would have been banned.
Being warned and doing it anyways is an open invitation.
Let me point out.. I'm not saying one deserved it more than the other. I'm just saying that one didn't know when to shut up.
AKDejaVu
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You know whats kind of funny?
Hes been banned for how long now? And you mention his name in a thread and its guaranteed to land 50 to 100 replys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Nath the guy people love to hate (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
No, double standards have nothing to do with it. If anyone would have gone of on HT that day the same way Nath did, they would have been banned.
Really? Then what's this I keep reading about how Nath's perma-ban was not the result of one single incident but rather the culmination of months of anti-social behavior? Which is it?
Being warned and doing it anyways is an open invitation.
Sure. I've never once argued that Nath's actions didn't deserve banning. What StSanta's arguing -- and I agree with him -- is that others have behaved in similarly disruptive ways without suffering the same consequences. If the only way to warrant a ban is through a direct attack on a HTC employee, then I see a future full of disruptive players ruining the game for others with impunity.
-- Todd/DMF
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hmm.. people take this game too seriously.
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I was absent when all this occured. The points raised come from people I respect from general conduct over the Year+ I've been flying AH...as an owner of multiple business's I have to defend HT's right to conduct business as needed.
However, it's evident that two seperate issues are raised here.
1) An understanding of TOS....even in an unformal manner
2) An understanding of enforcement policies
As I see it the current TOS is unclear in it's scope and intent. Naths' booting is viewed as arbitrary by some if not many members of the community. While recognizing the reality of the benevolent dictatorship, as a business person my primary "rules" are deliver a quality product and listen to my customers. AH certainly meets the 1st standard...the open nature of the BBS certainly goes 95% of the way toward #2...SO...Rule #3 is...I do what I think is right sfter following 1&2...so I guess Nath tweaked the wrong person at the wrong time...end of issue.
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BUT....truthfully I think a suspension goes alot further than A ban in the long run.
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hiya all:
man oh man do I ever miss flying with/against you all. ( stomping feet and whinning) * waaaaaaa, I dont know who gunman26 is, waaaaaaa*
well I will be be back soon I hope, and no I was not banned. LOL
wolf37
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i know you dont all ahree with me but
i thinknath bdps skill made him exempt from being nbaned imo, though obviously htc duidnt feel the same way
just the way citabrtra acts the same way sometumrs and i dont thinm hge shoudn be banned cuz he is good too
ban the guys who suck at teh game and talk toejame,. but the guys who can show theuir skills yo back it up deserve the leeway in is my book
bah im not even CUSTOMER SO WHATS DOES IT MSTTER
BTW IM DRUNK PL DISREGARD MY DIFFICULT TO READ TEXCT
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Multiplayer games like AH need a code of ethics. Especially since we're dealing with WW2 air combat where the pilots actually respected eachothers sometimes..
Of course even then there were bad persons, but during wartime emotions go wild. It's hard to stay politically correct when the enemy slaughters your family.
I'm 120% sure that if the old timers of the community can snap out of the madness and show good example, while setting strict rules on radio behaviour to the new users, we ALL will enjoy this game much more.
When players enjoy their stay in the game, they play more and subscribe more.
It's as simple as that.. Letting a few idiot customers ruin the fun for the rest of the paying customers is simply BAD BUSINESS for HT.
If I was him I'd warn twice, eject on 3rd anyone who fails to follow the 'code' of aces high gameplay. If booting for a couple minutes won't do the trick, then ban or cancel the agreement referring to the userlisence the players signed when subscribing.
Wouldn't it be SO much more fun to fly in an atmosphere where the good ones are respected, the losing ones are <S>aluted, the new helped..?
Or do we prefer a game full with screaming monkeys, trash, foul language and days of logging out in disgust.
Think about it.
Edit: removed the foul language and the excess profanities from the post ;-)
[This message has been edited by MrSiD (edited 05-12-2001).]
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Some interesting replys, some less so. I liked ammo's "you're full of BS" in particular.
I've gotten my response from HTC.
I'd still like some general guidelines. Mikod and others did an excellent job of detailing why. Jekyll pointed out that critique on this board.
I didn't make this thread orient around whether Nath ban was correct or incorrect. I didn't ask for input from users on whether he should be allowed in. It was a question to HTC, and the answer now has clarified the situation for all of us.
I feel that some posts in this thread have actually been productive and asked good non nath related questions - and that is the essence of the post I made. Nath was the example to illustrate a point. My question regarding if nath would be allowed back was made for 9./JG 54 members. I simple "yes", "no" or "it's between us and nath" sufficed, and I got my answer.
Miko, Jekyll and others have argued nicely regarding the need/non need for general guidelines. Think everything has been said and the thread can die.
------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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Santa I follow the O club and from yer posts there I know yer way too smart fer this. You *seriously* want some kinda rulebook as to what is cool and what is not? Nah man I don't buy it. That's silly and u know it.
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Nash, no, I just want some broad official guidelines, such as "abuse HTC ch1 and you get banned".
"Abuse every one in MA and you get a warning".
Something like that. It seems that just because there isn't one, people are taking advantage of it. Stuff like "well, squelch me if you do not wanna listen to me, you potato skynazi boy". Guidelines would help; i'd point at 'um and say "nope, ain't my responsibility".
But, I can also settle for .squelch, I gather. In an ideological way, it's a bit of a copout, but I'm a pragmatic person and whatever does the job... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Maybe it's common sense, but there are aspects of it that definitely are muddy.
Oh well, I'll let it rest
------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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jekyl... that's kind of a stretch even for you but.. I pay my thirty bucks and can leave without notice at any time and, in the same vein... I feel that HTC can ban anyone they want from their bus. anytime they want and for any reason they see fit including me. Probly they will use some discretion but it's up to them. I think they do a pretty good job at this... they should, they've had enough practice. I bet if I or anyone else got banned they would have a pretty good idea why and probly own up to at least a share in it.
I also think that HT and co have a sense of humor (look it up jekyl). If a guy is humorless, arrogant, wrong and pissy (sorry LW guys) then they are a lot more annoying than someone saying the same things in a humorous way. If someone gets emotional and angry it is also harder to put up with.
I sure as hell don't want anyone but them deciding who get's kicked off the island. the egomaniac little napoleaons I see in this group have raised HT and co to even handed sainthood IMO. Sheesh we would have guys making up charts and taking "polls" on it before the week was out.
If they want to give some kinda loose guidlines, fine but... I ain't askin em for em. If they want to throw out anyone it's up to them. If they do a good job people will stay. If they throw out too many people for triffling things then they will probly lose customers. It's up to them.
lazs
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Zigrat said(as he hoisted another beer)
i thinknath bdps skill made him exempt from being nbaned imo, though obviously htc duidnt feel the same way
Zig, that's utter BS. Nobody should be exempt from having to act like a civilized human being while they are online with other people.
Sounds to me like Nath could use some more skill.....social skill, that is. The hot-stick-smack-talking-bad-boy image he cultivated was his own doing. He made his bed, now he's sleeping in it.
All you appologists for Nath are looking for something in writing...a strict definition, so that you can find loopholes in it, or point the finger when HTC nails one jerk and doesn't nail another jerk. Got news for ya, HTC isn't stupid, and they're not going to accomodate you. Get over it and move on.
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banana, you hit on the thing I see every day, and perhaps is the point HTC sees as well.
The more you define specific behavior that is acceptable, the more loopholes you build. You would be amazed at the number of disputes I see every day from kids who skillfully argue they have avoided violating the specific rule, despite having broken the spirit of the rule by a mile. No one is smart enough to write an all-inclusive-every-possibility-accounted-for rulebook. It just won't happen.
Some of you seem to think this is the first time someone has been kicked out. It isn't. Remember about a year ago, a little screenshot that got posted with someone going off on private with Hblair? Ask him about it if you don't trust my memory. HTC doesn't stand up and say "Hey, guess what, we just banned so-and-so!" No online business does. What I find amusing is that no one (to the best of my memory) defended the person- then again, he wasn't such a hot pilot or big name.
The one point I see as valid here is whether the procedure is being applied equally. That is difficult to say, as Nath was given a large amount of rope to hang himself (as was Towd- funny, where are all the Towd defenders? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)). It could be there always was a process, it is just that it takes a long time to receive a ban. It could be that people have to travel so far down the pipe before decisive action is applied. Maybe not. Still, we have to trust HTC to do it right.
Think of it this way; even the jerk has rights, and HTC has to be careful to give even the jerks every chance to do the right thing. When enough evidence is compiled, the jerk is gone. I don't think I ever heard that one bad screenshot is enough to ban anyone. Lucky for us, huh? Everyone has bad nights, everyone loses it a bit on the channel, that is human. I feel HTC tries to look at people on the balance, getting a full picture before decisions are made. Yes, I feel there are people in the game that are pushing their luck right now- there are always those that will. If history shows us anything precious few will receive the ban, but those that do will have thoroughly earned it.
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Some interesting replys, some less so. I liked ammo's "you're full of BS" in particular.
I just call it like I see it. To say that you knew this wouldnt turn into a long discussion, rehashing it all again, is absurd. the person at hand cant or won't post and it is a personal matter between him and HTC. It is uncalled for, you know there are some really different opinions on this and it does nothing but serve to divide.
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
i know you dont all ahree with me but
i thinknath bdps skill made him exempt from being nbaned imo, though obviously htc duidnt feel the same way
just the way citabrtra acts the same way sometumrs and i dont thinm hge shoudn be
banned cuz he is good too
ban the guys who suck at teh game and talk toejame,. but the guys who can show theuir skills yo back it up deserve the leeway in is my book
bah im not even CUSTOMER SO WHATS DOES IT MSTTER
BTW IM DRUNK PL DISREGARD MY DIFFICULT TO READ TEXCT
OH MY!
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Ammo, I ain't no future teller.
Look at the way my post was constructed, and please tell me how it invited the hate nath fan club to start going off.
Nath and gunman26 were used as examples. At least place the blame where the blame is due.
------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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OK I will give ya that, maybe you arent a fortune teller, (just one of satan's demons..?). But I personally would have put some thought into that before posting it and would have thought better of it. But I am definately not you, and you are the man of the hour.
ammo
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Who is Nath?
This guy either had balls of brass, or a brain of the same.
blutic
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Jihad, Grunherz... you are both tools. More worthless than a wad of jizz on a napkin. More annoying than booger that just refuses to come out of your nose.
Now run along, I'm sure there are other threads that need your special attention.
-SW
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Im truly offended Mr. T, no, Im hurt deeply and emotionally scarred by that statement.
Yep I am.....
You and you girlfriend DJ are pretty pathetic all you ever do is attack and critize anyone who pretty much says anything or tries to bring a new idea into AH , you two are just a gang of scared, fearful and unimaginative bullies. So you 2 please do us all a favor and go away on a long honeymoon together.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
You and you girlfriend DJ are pretty pathetic all you ever do is attack and critize anyone who pretty much says anything or tries to bring a new idea into AH , you two are just a gang of scared, fearful and unimaginative bullies. So you 2 please do us all a favor and go away on a long honeymoon together.
And you sir are full of toejam. If the idea is a good one I don't comment on it or I add my ideas. If it's some of your same ol' same ol' "waaaaaa remove the N1K2/Chog/Whatever" from you, then yeah I'll attack that idea.
When you stop squeaking and moaning I'll stop attacking your lame ass.
Until then...
-SW
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Cool (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
That's my story and I'm stickin to it!!!
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hehe look at the toejamstorm little ol me created...lol
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Nope, This toejamstorm was created by HTC when they banned Nath. IMO.
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Originally posted by Mr. T:
Jihad, Grunherz... you are both tools. More worthless than a wad of jizz on a napkin. More annoying than booger that just refuses to come out of your nose.
Now run along, I'm sure there are other threads that need your special attention.
-SW
You seem to be obsessed with male genitalia and its issue, there are plenty of porn sites dedicated to your sickness - no need to air it on HTC's UBB.
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Yeah, I need to stay more relevant to the thread. HTC booted Nath because of his actions, and maybe others need to be booted as well. I strongly believe HTC has not booted anyone without some sort of warning, and I don't believe HTC can be aware of everything, every incident that happens online.
So the "why Nath and not xxxxx" cannot be answered. Its all about observations of actions, being aware of what is happening. I am sure HTC hates to take such an action.
Why not gunman26? His time will come. Anyone who continually acts stupid will eventually come to HTCs attention, and I am confident they will act on it as necessary. It just takes time.
Dago
[This message has been edited by Dago (edited 05-13-2001).]
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Originally posted by Dago:
Nath is to blame for the banning, not HTC. They were plenty tolerant, giving him many chances to behave, grow up. He choose not to do it. Good riddance.
Once again, you're missing the point of StSanta's post. Nobody on this board... NOBODY... has argued that Nath did not deserve to be banned. Why belabor that?
The main issue is that others have exhibited similarly anti-social behavior, they have done so repeatedly and unrepentently, and they continue to do so with impunity. Why aren't they banned as well? Were Nath's indiscretions so much more egregious?
Others here have argued that HTC should or shouldn't publish a set of arena codes of conduct. I don't think that's really necessary. Rather, HTC needs a systematic process for dealing with troublemakers such that: 1) said troublemakers are dealt with quickly but fairly, and 2) they avoid the appearance of arbitrariness. The latter is important because disruptive players should know exactly what sort of punishment they can expect from continuously poor behavior.
-- Todd/DMF
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This stuff scares me what is next a zero tolerence radio disipline. Let it go Maybe the insecure ones will evenually get back in the game when they can act civilized let HTC do as they please...
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One more thing Santa I applaud your sticking up for a squaddie, but to give you a different example that I believe is relevent.
I got a speeding ticket 2 weeks ago and was going with the flow and mentioned to johnny law what about the other cars that i was following his reply was you were the one that i caught.
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"...The main issue is that others have exhibited similarly anti-social behavior, they have done so repeatedly and unrepentently, and they continue to do so with impunity. Why aren't they banned as well? Were Nath's indiscretions so much more egregious?..."
Several people in this thread have explained it very well, but you don't seem to want to hear it.
HTC obviously has a lot of patience and they have to continually be "poked in the eye" as one person put it, before they react. They're not going to ban someone on the basis of a couple of incidents. HTC will give them enough rope to hang themselves.
Your comparing other people's behaviour to your friend's, suggesting it is as deplorable and done repeatedly. Obviously HTC disagrees. Maybe you're not being objective?
If this gunman26 and others that people bring up as examples continue their behaviour over a period of time, I'm sure they will be dealt with also. Give it time, the wheels of justice move slowly. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
bowser
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Originally posted by bowser:
Several people in this thread have explained it very well, but you don't seem to want to hear it.
[/b]
And again, it is you who does not hear it. I'm not defending Nath. Get it? I find it humerous that someone can read one of my posts and take that away from it.
HTC obviously has a lot of patience and they have to continually be "poked in the eye" as one person put it, before they react. They're not going to ban someone on the basis of a couple of incidents. HTC will give them enough rope to hang themselves.
[/b]
You speak as if you're intimately familiar with the events that lead up to Nath's banning. Maybe you can enlighten us as to how the pokes that Nath took occurred more frequently or with greater vitriole than what's going on right now. As I've said before, I don't buy it. I think the behavior of some of the players right now is every bit as bad as anything Nath ever did, and it's every bit as consistent.
Would you consider what gunman26 does to be a "couple" of incidents? Evidence would suggest otherwise. This is why I think standards of warning and punishments -- published standards -- would be an important deterrent to this sort of behavior. That also grants HTC broad discretion to determine what sort of behavior they consider disruptive while reducing the appearance of arbitrary justice through due process. Obviously, as they are a private business this isn't at all necessary. However, I think it would go a long way to acting as a deterrent to continued misbehavior when the punishments are clear.
Obviously HTC disagrees. Maybe you're not being objective?
I wouldn't be the only one who disagrees with HTC then, and it has nothing to do with being objective or not objective. The main points I'm trying to make are not that gunman26, Citabria, or anyone else should be banned. Rather, I'm pointing out that seems to be a disparity in enforcement and degree of punishment that allows disruptive players to continue being disruptive. I hope HTC can plug that hole.
-- Todd/DMF
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I can't believe this thread is going on this long.
Nath's banning is simple to explain:
HT announces that he's going to get tough on people "going off" on channel one in the wake of Towd's banning. That day, nath goes off on channel one... and continues to go off well past the time when common sense says he should have stopped (warned.. still continued). HT's hand was forced.
To use Nath's banning as a standard for anything is rediculous. I seriously doubt we will see that exact same circumstance arrive again. Basically, every situation should be handled on an individual basis by HT.
I don't like that Nath got banned, but I see exactly why it happened. I also felt that it was the start of several witch hunts to come based on the fact that "this is worse than what nath did" and so on.
I also didn't like that so many were dancing the jig at Nath's departure. It speaks volumes for how deeply any double standards run. Its not HT with the double standards guys... its pretty much the rest of the community.
If someone is told to stop and continues... there is little recourse. Nath is just a classic example of poor decisions and very bad timing.
AKDejaVu
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Fella's I am just like you guys, I know what i know. But I do know that nath had torqued off more than a few people and SEVERAL SS's and emails were sent to HTC about him over the last 2 years or so (time frame isnt exact). I know of a long discussion but will not repeat it. It is noones business!!! but HTC';s and nath's. Drop it. HT has good sense, he did what he felt good for his business.
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I find this thread INCREDIBLE????? This a GAME after all. Nath has OTHER places to go, his life is NOT over. HTC has a business to run and they must maintain THEIR right to do it as they see fit, they must produce a PRODUCT and find people willing to PAY for it, to that extent they must walk a THIN line. I cancelled my account because I had a collision with Pyro (we were both having a bad day I suspect) and he exercised his RIGHT to tell me if I didn't like it I could leave, upon thinking that over I AGREED with Pyro he was right it was MY decision to stay or go and it was HTC's right to dictate my behavior if I chose to stay and play THEIR game. I decided to leave because I have a "personalitly glich" that causes me to "gripe" abit too much, and I need to work on that and wasn't sure I would be able to control it to the extent that HTC wanted or for that case the entire community.
I have managed to live without AH altho I do think it is the best flight sim available at the moment, and so will Nath. So I say let it lie and get on with more important things in your lives.
BigJim
[This message has been edited by BigJim (edited 05-13-2001).]
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Originally posted by Staga:
Nope, This toejamstorm was created by HTC when they banned Nath. IMO.
Actually, it *seemed* to have started everytime Nath logged on..although I wasn't online everytime, I'm assuming his behavior was consistent.
Towd was also banned, for the same reasons. Two different pilot skills, two almost identical behaviorial problems. Need I say anymore?
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Its kinda funny actually! When HT comes online all the kids sit up straight and start to behave.
As it should be.
Y
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StSanta,
If your goal was truly to get an answer from HTC, and not start a huge public debate on the BBS, why did you not just send a private email to HTC? That would have got you your answer I'm sure. You've been here long enough to know exactly what was going to happen when you posted that here, and from that I can infer what your motives were.
As to yourself and the others asking why others are not banned for their behaviour, all I can say is to be patient. The HTC crew is very busy, so as someone above said "the wheels of justice turn slowly". If somebody is consistently causing problems, HTC will eventually catch on and steps will be taken. I'm confident of that. In the mean time, if somebody is being destructive online, grab a few screenshots and send them on to HTC privately. They do pay attention to those kinds of things, and something will get done about it. AH is their livelyhood at HTC, so trust them to do the right thing. It's not like you have any other choice really. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://lephturn.webhop.net) for AH articles and training info!
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Leph, that was the second part, and very small part, of my post. The major part and the one people have chosen NOT to focus at all on was a request for some general guidelines.
This thread is dead. kill-9
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)