Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ike 2K# on July 15, 2003, 02:57:15 PM

Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Ike 2K# on July 15, 2003, 02:57:15 PM
if a B-17 bombs or try to crash the plane on the runway, there will be craters on the runway and the craters will wreck your landing gears if you go through them during take-offs or landings. Navy fighters/bombers should withstand the damage. Should we have this feature on AHII? Right now (in AH), bombing the runway is useless and the craters on the runway messes up framerates.
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Chairboy on July 15, 2003, 03:14:17 PM
I absolutely agree with this.  If there are craters on the runway, then the defenders can launch from the grass, so consider this a pre-emptive strike against those who would wail that 'a single fluffer could bring down a whole field!  waaaaa!'.

;)
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Ike 2K# on July 15, 2003, 08:23:00 PM
lol i got this idea straight from warbirds while im playing the offline version.:)
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: ramzey on July 15, 2003, 08:32:07 PM
no
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: BenDover on July 15, 2003, 08:34:50 PM
Didn't we have this back in 1.03?

I think we also had torque back then aswell.
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Ike 2K# on July 15, 2003, 08:47:34 PM
i dont know but right now, bombing runways has no strategic purpose
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: SKurj on July 15, 2003, 08:47:36 PM
bad idea unfortunately  too easy to close a field.  

Taking off on the grass would be fine if the fields offered more variety.
Some fields in ww2 were huge with a very large grass runway allowing fighters to practically takeoff in any direction they chose.

Others were really narrow and really short

Some had lots of buildings etc, some had virtually none...


This is another one thats been discussed ad nauseum in the past.  a few jabo pilots could shut down alot of fields very quickly, especially the small fields.


SKurj
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Ridge on July 15, 2003, 09:05:43 PM
If you taxi over a crater in Fighter Ace 2, you will be killed, too.
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Raven101 on July 15, 2003, 09:28:33 PM
Playin fighter ace2 for some time gets a little anoying because those craters just leave game statistics alone there fine....dont try getting some of those f16s or stuff like that in game hint hint it wwII lol;)
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Ike 2K# on July 15, 2003, 10:26:07 PM
just move aside from the runway and you'll be fine as long as you dont take bombers or fighters that takes forever to take-off while your base is on defensive.
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: StracCop on July 16, 2003, 01:12:30 PM
The answer to the crater issue could be addressed with an appropriate persistence value.  Have them repair in say, 10 minutes, for example.  That would be too quick to completely dominate a field and not long enough for a return flight with more ordnance.

I also played Fighter Ace and found the cratering aspect manageable and, most improtantly, it proved a viable and worthwhile interdiction tactic.

(http://www.simviation.com/gryphon/misc/IMPACT_Inter-tn_01.jpg)

Adding the cratering element also adds something to the realism of the game, in my opinion.  Fields won't go without cap as they do now, hence, you will have a greater reason and incentive to protect them.

David

More about interdiction tactics here (http://www.simviation.com/gryphon/misc/IMPACT_Interdiction.htm).
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Ike 2K# on July 16, 2003, 06:12:26 PM
if the runway is cement, then the repair time should be 60 mins. The mud runway should be 10 mins.
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: ramzey on July 16, 2003, 06:31:38 PM
IKe personal question
DO you fly curent on MA and have full account?

just courious

ramzey
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Swoop on July 16, 2003, 06:38:44 PM
Ripping off gear could be a problem, as people say it's too easy to close a field.  However, "bumpy" bomb craters could add to immersion and may also possibly have the effect of causing the less experienced flyers to have crashes on take off / landing.  

(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Ike 2K# on July 16, 2003, 09:09:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ridge
If you taxi over a crater in Fighter Ace 2, you will be killed, too.


even when you go through it at 10 mph?
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: StracCop on July 17, 2003, 07:29:40 AM
In fighter ace you can go over even the most damaging craters
safely if you crawl over them very slowly.

David
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Ike 2K# on July 17, 2003, 02:34:33 PM
now THATS pure realism.
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Rutilant on July 17, 2003, 04:34:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SKurj
bad idea unfortunately  too easy to close a field.  

Taking off on the grass would be fine if the fields offered more variety.
Some fields in ww2 were huge with a very large grass runway allowing fighters to practically takeoff in any direction they chose.

Others were really narrow and really short

Some had lots of buildings etc, some had virtually none...


This is another one thats been discussed ad nauseum in the past.  a few jabo pilots could shut down alot of fields very quickly, especially the small fields.


SKurj



*cough* AH2 is re-working fields - did you see the screenie? there's plenty of grass there.
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: MrCoffee on July 17, 2003, 04:52:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by StracCop
The answer to the crater issue could be addressed with an appropriate persistence value.  Have them repair in say, 10 minutes, for example.  That would be too quick to completely dominate a field and not long enough for a return flight with more ordnance.

I also played Fighter Ace and found the cratering aspect manageable and, most improtantly, it proved a viable and worthwhile interdiction tactic.

(http://www.simviation.com/gryphon/misc/IMPACT_Inter-tn_01.jpg)

Adding the cratering element also adds something to the realism of the game, in my opinion.  Fields won't go without cap as they do now, hence, you will have a greater reason and incentive to protect them.

David

More about interdiction tactics here (http://www.simviation.com/gryphon/misc/IMPACT_Interdiction.htm).


Funny thing is that in my reading on the subject about airfields during wwII, often times aircraft were scattered about auxiliary fields (meaning some grass field) under heavy camo because the main airstrip was often bombed useless. Depends on the scenerio etc... but usually the wining side of that theater hid their aircraft and the loosing side often didnt bother. In Burma, the FTs went to the trouble of making wood aircraft cutouts and left them at the main airstrip (which was bombed). Winning side often had to use forward bases as they advanced anyhow.
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: StracCop on July 18, 2003, 06:57:29 AM
Hi MrCoffee,

Everything you said is absolutely true.  

In AH2/TOD I fervently hope that some form of foliage like
forested areas are available so that air and vehicle assets can be
prepositioned in preparation for a coordinated offensive.
Detecting the enemy would become a more difficult and important element in the game.

Just to clarify my earlier post.

When I speak of interdiction what I am talking about is isolating a
target from outside reinforcement in preparation for an attack
and capture and, to a lesser extend, preventing that base from capturing a friendly objective.

Targeting surrounding field strats (fuel, ammo, FH, VH) is the preferred method of neutering nearby enemt bases that might render assistance.  The ability to crater a runway would only add another dimension to this proven tactic.

David
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Replicant on July 18, 2003, 05:28:59 PM
Yep, this used to be modelled in AH.  I think HTC removed it because if there was a crater on the spawn point you'd blow up immediately on spawn.  This caused a lotta people to complain!
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: warlox on July 19, 2003, 12:16:38 AM
Yep, this used to be modelled in AH. I think HTC removed it because if there was a crater on the spawn point you'd blow up immediately on spawn. This caused a lotta people to complain!

The above statment is EXACTLY right.  As a former AOL Fighter Ops, later, WB Fighter Ops sim player.  The trash talk this Spawn point bombing causes is derived from being the recipient of the spawn bomb  :mad:  Those darn holes lasted 5 min.  You couldn't reverse or turn either way you just blew up.  Meanwhile the spawn bomber or runway bomber, in the proposed idea, just flies around close collecting kill after kill after kill  ;)  The second someone finds out what this crater or craters can do you ain't getting off any forward base. Vulching will take on a new dimension reprisal bombing will escalte and like WB people will log off... for good .  Sure, us regular players had a gentlemans agreement about spawn bombing and wouldn't do it but not everyone's a gentleman.  As for the newbies they loved it.  " wow I got a 8 kill sortie only needed a 1,000 lb bomb".  The newbies wondering why the white text has gone blue.:rolleyes:

So, friend who started this thread.  I appreciate and understand your concept but beleive me it is way more trouble than HTC would want to afford.
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: bigjava on July 19, 2003, 03:27:46 AM
i think add this kind of realism is not possible because it will be too easy close an airfield in this way ......:rolleyes:
even if the runway will be to runeable in 10 min...
.... and even if HT give us a buldozer to repair it quickly !
 people find boring bring suply immaginate what could be happen with a buldozer hehehehehe



(http://www.pitoche.com/fotos/buldozer.jpg)
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: BenDover on July 19, 2003, 12:25:02 PM
Thats not a bull dozer...
Title: Re: craters on the runway
Post by: GRUNHERZ on July 19, 2003, 01:40:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ike 2K#
Navy fighters/bombers should withstand the damage.  


Tell me exactly what sort of magic ability Navy aircraft have to traverse large bomb craters safely? :)
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Ike 2K# on July 19, 2003, 08:34:01 PM
As i said before  go through them ssslowly at 30 to 45 mph but its gonna be a bumpy ride for 3 secs :)
Title: craters on the runway
Post by: Reschke on July 19, 2003, 09:07:47 PM
30-45mph should wreck any aircraft landing gear if they are traversing a hole in the ground up to 10 feet wide and half as deep. Just think if the gear did not get wrecked then there would be a hell of a prop strike and damage the prop to the point of the plane being unusable till a new engine was installed due to the damage to the bearings on the prop shaft.

3-10 mph and no deeper than 1-2 feet.