Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on July 16, 2003, 02:00:37 PM
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They are just a slightly less malignant strain of socialists than are the Democrats. They've had three years with both houses and the White House, but we still spend 30% of our time working as slaves for Washington.
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yep... they are barely better than the dems on taxes but....they are 100% better on gun control and environmental stuff.
lazs
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But Funked, it's Clinton's fault that the Republicans can't get anything done. Well, either that or it's the liberal media's fault. And if it's not Clinton's fault or the liberal media's fault, then it's those nasty democrats' fault.
Cut the Reps some slack, man, ease off. They're doing a great job of giving money back to the wealthiest Americans, where it belongs. And they're doing an awesome job of setting the next three generations of kids up to handle the challenge of our deficit spending. What could build character better than that?
Geez, what a whiner. Next thing you'll be crying about is all the dead US soldiers in our riteous crusade against WMD in Iraq, which I'll have you know....I'm very, very confident that we'll find. And if we can't find any, then it's Clinton's fault. Or the media's fault.
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Don't get me started about the Democrats. We'd be paying a lot more than 30% if they had their way.
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Originally posted by banana
But Funked, it's Clinton's fault that the Republicans can't get anything done. Well, either that or it's the liberal media's fault. And if it's not Clinton's fault or the liberal media's fault, then it's those nasty democrats' fault.
Cut the Reps some slack, man, ease off. They're doing a great job of giving money back to the wealthiest Americans, where it belongs. And they're doing an awesome job of setting the next three generations of kids up to handle the challenge of our deficit spending. What could build character better than that?
Geez, what a whiner. Next thing you'll be crying about is all the dead US soldiers in our riteous crusade against WMD in Iraq, which I'll have you know....I'm very, very confident that we'll find. And if we can't find any, then it's Clinton's fault. Or the media's fault.
Another Socialist
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Originally posted by Rude
Another Socialist
Bzzzzt! Wrong, but thanks for playing. :)
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banana I thought you said you were a Democrat before?
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Originally posted by banana
Cut the Reps some slack, man, ease off. They're doing a great job of giving money back to the wealthiest Americans, where it belongs.
Accountability. The word that seperates Liberals from Conservatives.
Liberals want to punish the rich for taking full advantage of the capitalist system and living the American dream.
Conservatives dont want to punish the rich for taking full advantage of the capitalist system and living the American dream.
Arent we supposed to be encouraging citizens to move up into the next tax bracket? There is nothing wrong with loosening the noose around the neck of the wealthy - they've earned it and are fully entitled to the benefits of economic freedom as a result of their successes.
All of us should be learning from these people, not taxing away their money to make up for the inadequacies of the destitute.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Accountability. The word that seperates Liberals from Conservatives.
Liberals want to punish the rich for taking full advantage of the capitalist system and living the American dream.
Conservatives dont want to punish the rich for taking full advantage of the capitalist system and living the American dream.
Arent we supposed to be encouraging citizens to move up into the next tax bracket? There is nothing wrong with loosening the noose around the neck of the wealthy - they've earned it and are fully entitled to the benefits of economic freedom as a result of their successes.
All of us should be learning from these people, not taxing away their money to make up for the inadequacies of the destitute.
Ah, the conservative rationalization for an "I got mine" attitude.
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Originally posted by funkedup
banana I thought you said you were a Democrat before?
I've usually voted for the democratic candidate in most elections, but not all. But I do not consider myself to be a card carrying member of the democratic party.
I think about each issue independently, and form my own opinions about them.
In a nutshell, I'm a tree-hugging, whale-saving, pro-life, pro-death penalty, pro-public education, anti-gun pacifist who supported the war on Iraq. I also think that Clinton lied under oath and is a disgrace to the office of the president.
And it drives most party members nuts because they can't pigeon hole me.
:)
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Public education is a socialist policy. :)
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Originally posted by Arfann
Ah, the conservative rationalization for an "I got mine" attitude.
As opposed to the Soviet 'Everybody has some of mine.' attitude, no doubt?
Garaunteed Iron Rice Bowl or the possibility of a Porterhouse.
You choose.
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Saur is he Type 1, Type 2, or Type 3? :)
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I’d like to know what the democrats definition of “wealthy” and “rich” is. I think I’m being grouped into that class and I am in no way either. I’ve worked hard for the little bit that my family has and it seems I’m doing everything I can possibly think of to legally keep it.
It seems to me that anyone who’s household income, with 2 working parents and 2 children, is at least 27K is considered wealthy. Yeah, right.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Public education is a socialist policy. :)
You don't read history much, do you?
Public education is what helped set us apart from the more backward countries of the world. Ditto for Unions. Unions helped save an entire population of near slave laborers from the oppressive yoke of the big industrialists in the late 19th and early 20th century.
Unions are not as important as they once were, but that's only because union workers have a pretty decent standard of living now. I find it highly ironic that some people get so idignant about union workers making a living wage, yet these same folks don't have a problem with the wealthiest Americans getting all the paybacks from the federal government.
The difference between union workers and the big industiralists was that the union workers wanted to earn a fair, decent salary for an honest day's work in a safe environment. The industrialists wanted to keep maximize their profits by exploiting the workers.
All ya gotta do is read your history books. :)
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Find out what party you belong to, or rather beliefs line up with. I myself seem to be a Libertarian :D.
Political Party Quiz (http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html)
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Not sure what your post has to do with anything, banana, but public education is by definition a socialist policy. Unless you've come up with some way to fund it without forcing people to pay for it whether they use it or not.
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Find out what party you belong to, or rather beliefs line up with. I myself seem to be a Libertarian :D.
Political Party Quiz (http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html)
[size=10]http://www.lp.org[/size]
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Heh. I'm a centrist.
Told ya! :D
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Im a centrist from that test.
Its way to short though.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Not sure what your post has to do with anything, banana, but public education is by definition a socialist policy. Unless you've come up with some way to fund it without forcing people to pay for it whether they use it or not.
Funked, everytime you hold an intelligent(and in some case, an unintelligent) conversation with someone in this country, you have "used" education. Everytime you write a word on a paper, everytime you add or subtract, etc., ad-nauseum.
Labelling public education as "socialist" is just another conservative turn of phrase in order to generate unthinking, irresponsible rage toward it.
Public education is the foundation of an advanced, cultured society. We didn't get to be the greatest nation the world has ever seen by being home schooled now, did we?
Next! :)
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banana are you just messing around, or did you lose your marbles? Get a dictionary and look up "socialism".
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You're just trolling me aren't you, BASTARD. :)
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banana: Public education is the foundation of an advanced, cultured society. We didn't get to be the greatest nation the world has ever seen by being home schooled now, did we?
Must be a troll...
miko
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Originally posted by funkedup
banana are you just messing around, or did you lose your marbles? Get a dictionary and look up "socialism".
Ok, since I have a few spare moments while my code compiles...
From Merriam-Webster:
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
Since when is education an economic or political theory? And it certainly is not a means of production.
I have to laugh. Going by definition 3, it looks like Bush's tax cut is a socialist giveback to the wealthy! It certainly wasn't an even giveback, now was it? I know that the extra $50 bucks per check I got really made a huge difference in my life.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by funkedup
You're just trolling me aren't you, BASTARD. :)
Would I troll the man who gave me fluffy at the con last year?
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
As opposed to the Soviet 'Everybody has some of mine.' attitude, no doubt?
Garaunteed Iron Rice Bowl or the possibility of a Porterhouse.
You choose.
Ah, yes, the Soviets. We whipped 'em good in the cold war, then Dubya proves they were right about us being war mongering imperialists. The irony!
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Find out what party you belong to, or rather beliefs line up with. I myself seem to be a Libertarian :D.
I wuz gonna be one a dem, but I cudn't figger out the Dewey Decimal system.
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banana if you are serious, see new thread.
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Originally posted by banana
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
I have to laugh. Going by definition 3, it looks like Bush's tax cut is a socialist giveback to the wealthy! It certainly wasn't an even giveback, now was it? I know that the extra $50 bucks per check I got really made a huge difference in my life.
:rolleyes:
OMG now THAT is brainwashing. You are saying when the government gives us back money they have confiscated from us, it's socialism?!?!
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Find out what party you belong to, or rather beliefs line up with. I myself seem to be a Libertarian :D.
Political Party Quiz (http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html)
According to your answers, your political philosophy is right-conservative.
Conservative
Right-conservatives prefer self-government on economic issues, but want official standards in personal matters. They want the government to defend the community from threats to its moral fiber.
Wow. Nailed me perfectly :p
Now how many people are going to chime in and tell me how wrong I am? No wait...I know I'm wealthy to the dems since I make $27k a year.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Im a centrist from that test.
Its way to short though.
It used to be a few pages with several questions per page. Not sure why it was shortened so much. I took it again though and it still came out the same.
The longer version had more in depth questions about taxes, gun control, abortion, welfare, and trade/foreign relations. It was a few years back though when I first found it.
I think it used to be 4 full pages.
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where's the "hell if I know" radio button?
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Originally posted by Arfann
Ah, yes, the Soviets. We whipped 'em good in the cold war, then Dubya proves they were right about us being war mongering imperialists. The irony!
Funked, could you help me out with the l337 5p34k way to spell "You are the dumb?"
Im taking you out of my sig Arfann, see Funks future post.
Psst - scored Right/Conservative - big surprise.
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u r teh r3t4rd
Don't get too mean though. I can be rough with banana because he knows deep down inside that I want him to have my baby. And we have shared a lover (fluffy).
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There we are - thats right!
u r teh r3t4rd!!! Thats why Im taking you out of my sig, good for nothing, ungrateful COMMUNIST!!! :D
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Conservatives are just so... so... mean!!
maybe it's the little peepees.
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so whats your plan on how to pay for our military and infastructure funcked? or do you just whine all day about paying the lowest taxes in the industrialized world?
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Frog, You really think a significant percentage of that money actually pays for infrastructure? Mostly it goes to pay government drones/parasites to do nothing. Income taxes are primarily an income redistribution scheme. It's not about actually fixing problems and paying for things we need, it's about social engineering.
I have previously expressed my thoughts on military spending in another of my pompous posts on this board. To summarize: I think our military should be downsized to the minimum size required to defend the 50 states. Let the oil prices fall where they may.
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if you take away the governments injection of funds into the economy and the redistribution of wealth you end up with the 1930s all over again. Sorry funked keep whineing, its all you have left because creeping socialism is a fact. If you create large gaps in social equity you also create the seeds of a society that would pretty much look like pre revolutionary france.
study some keynesian economics then get back to me. Then you might understand why we need to social engineer our country in order to not allow another great depression.
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Originally posted by funkedup
u r teh r3t4rd
Don't get too mean though. I can be rough with banana because he knows deep down inside that I want him to have my baby. And we have shared a lover (fluffy).
Who luvs ya, baby! :)
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My last economics prof. pretty much explained to us that Keynes has been thoroughly discredited. :)
I'm more an "Invisible Hand" type. :)
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your last economics teacher must have had some kind of adgenda. clintons economy was neo-keynesian and i think a budget surplus counts as a success. as well as FDR, Eisenhower, Truman's economic advisors. Its basically teaches that demand is the drive of the economy. The reason why the government injects so much cash into the middle and lower class's. Do you really think that having 10 percent of americans holding 80-90 percent of the wealth creates a healthy society?
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Yes my last economics prof was from that fascist think tank, the University of California. :)
Do you really think that having 10 percent of americans holding 80-90 percent of the wealth creates a healthy society?
I don't really care. As long as they earned their wealth legally I feel it is none of my business. I don't want anyone robbing me of the fruits of my labor and I wouldn't expect them to feel any different.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Do you really think that having 10 percent of americans holding 80-90 percent of the wealth creates a healthy society?
I'd rather have that than a socialist nightmare where everybody has equally nothing.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
maybe it's the little peepees.
BAH!!! Wheres my digicam!!! Skuzzy, CLOSE YOUR EYES!!!
MUAHHAHHAHHA!!!
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i dont think you understand what a modern mixed market country is mietla. Go visit Italy, switzerland, denmark, holland. maybe then you would understand. There are very few things that should be public goods. Modern socialist only believe that education, healthcare, and other basic things that a society needs to be safe, to live in should be considered a public good.
funked you wouldnt have the "fruits of your labor" if it wasnt for the government you owe them. stop whineing. And if you lived in a society that had a bad distribution of wealth you wouldnt even be able to have a good job, let alone be free. example: any third world country. If you dont want to pay taxes go to zambia.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
funked you wouldnt have the "fruits of your labor" if it wasnt for the government you owe them.
That's where we disagree fundamentally. You've got the cart before the horse. If it wasn't for people working their bellybutton off, the government wouldn't be able to do anything. The fat cats in Washington love people like you though. They keep stealing and people like you keep bending over and asking for more.
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Originally posted by funkedup
They are just a slightly less malignant strain of socialists than are the Democrats. They've had three years with both houses and the White House, but we still spend 30% of our time working as slaves for Washington.
What and for how much, my GF is outta town this week.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
If you dont want to pay taxes go to zambia.
No I like it here. Nice weather and all my family and friends are here. I will stay here, exercise my God-given rights, and hope that the rest of my compatriots will wise up and start voting more sensibly.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Go visit Italy, switzerland, denmark, holland.
Why would I. Like Funked I like it here. I just object to slaving for 6 months every year in order to support some lazy bum who chooses not to work.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
There we are - thats right!
u r teh r3t4rd!!! Thats why Im taking you out of my sig, good for nothing, ungrateful COMMUNIST!!! :D
So . . . . err. . . . . ahhh. . . . . If ya gotta get help in how to spell retard and then spell it wrong anyway what does that make ya??
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Frogm4n: Do you really think that having 10 percent of americans holding 80-90 percent of the wealth creates a healthy society?
Most of that wealth - probably 99% of it - is in the form of a capital. And capital is only valuable if it produces value - goods and services - for the non-owners of the capital, the consumers like me.
In the free(ish) market the consumer is the souvereign who determines what is produced and at what prices by choosing or abstaining from purchase.
And if it's me who determines what the factory produces, I could not care less who holds the title to it - except if it is the government bureacrat in a socialist state who could not care less about me.
The disparity of wealth you hear about is bogus. The capital the rich "own" is working for our benefit. The profits they receive (after paying disproportionately high taxes) are mostly reinvested back into the productive capital so that we could get better and less expensive goods in the future.
So it's not income disparity but consumption disparity that really matters. Which is also much distorted by lying socialists.
The tiny fraction of profits that the "rich" actually consume does not buy them nearly as much more consumption as the monetary difference suggests.
My suit may cost several times less than theirs but it is almost the same real value.
The house ten times as expensive does not provide ten times better value.
The car ten times more expensive does not give one a ten times better transportation, etc.
The food you can buy from the supermarket does not differ by caloric intake or nutritional values from the food that costs rich people many times more.
And of course most or all of the price the rich overpay for their consumption goes towards the salaries of the people.
If you take a person from 16th century (or a socialist country like Soviet Union) and show them the life of Bill Gates, what would they be most impressed?
They would be most impressed that Bill and Malinda have a warm house in the winter and cool air in the summer, clean hot and cold water available any time, indoor plumbing, ability to travel other than by foot, warm convenient quality clothes, little fear of dying in childbirth or from some desease, ample nutritious food, affordable education, etc. etc.
But all those things are what any american - rich and poor enjoys, all courtecy of the free market.
miko
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Originally posted by Arfann
So . . . . err. . . . . ahhh. . . . . If ya gotta get help in how to spell retard and then spell it wrong anyway what does that make ya??
Youre no fun - Im not going to play with you anymore.
And Im telling my mom.
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Originally posted by miko2d
But all those things are what any american - rich and poor enjoys, all courtecy of the free market.
And this is what you libs are striving to screw up. If you like socialism in Italy, Denmark or Sweden, why don't you move there to already existing paradise and leave this country for those who don't need the Ted Kennedy to wipe their prettythanges.
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Originally posted by mietla
And this is what you libs are striving to screw up. If you like socialism in Italy, Denmark or Sweden, why don't you move there to already existing paradise and leave this country for those who don't need the Ted Kennedy to wipe their prettythanges.
Hehe, sing it brotha!
:D
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Originally posted by funkedup
They are just a slightly less malignant strain of socialists than are the Democrats. They've had three years with both houses and the White House, but we still spend 30% of our time working as slaves for Washington.
I feel the same way sometimes about the GOP and jack-boot wearing, goose-stepping, idiots like Ashcroft just reinforce those feelings. And I'm a registered Republican, have been since 1988 when I turned 18.
Ack-Ack
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Great argument except for one thing. Most of us who live either in North America or Europe where we pretty much have it worked out. Some are rich, some are poor but most of us get along just fine right there in the middle. Left, centre, right, Democrat or Republican. We live well thanks to moderate government of whatever hue. The truth of it is that there really is very little fundamental difference between the Democrats and the Republicans or 'new' socialists and conservatives.
funked has a rather right wing slant, if he wants to see how well his system works. He need only look to most South American countries to see his ideal system in action. Masses of poor with a small middle class, living in walled compounds against the poor and a few rich fat cats running the country.
I don't want that and hey our system works just fine. Why mess with it? We don't need extremes of any description, right or left wing!
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there are 20million americans without health insureance. yet our health care business sector counts as 17 percent of our gdp. An extremely high rate compared with other civilized nations. i just dont understand why we dont have a national health care system.
When i say go to those countrys i mean go visit them. Go see the world ,open your mind. Its a big place with alot of different cultures and ways of living.
Actually i am planning on moving out of the country once i get my degree. But it all depends on where the job markets are at.
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Well if 30 or 40 percent of my income had not been confiscated from my paycheck, I might be able to afford to go to other countries. :)
At current budget levels, I will stick to seeing the USA. It's a big place with alot of different cultures and ways of living. :)
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C'mon Frog, you are just regurgitating what they told you in school. I lived the socialism so do not teach me about this gunk. My mind is as open as I care it to be. I've put my own and my wife's future on the line to provide a better lot for my kids. I have raised two kids so I do know what it takes, and still get the half of my income stolen, so I can get really creative how to pay for their braces and education for example.
People choose not to insure themselves or plan for bad times because the libs promise them a service anyway! The liberty (of others) seems like a small price to pay .
I had my niece visiting from Canada. She got an ear infection that needed a doctor visit. Went to the doctor and the first thing they've asked me for was my pocket book. Fair enough I say, but the gotcha is that I know the magic spell. All I had to say is that she is here illegally. Not only would she receive all the necessary treatment for free, it would be ILLEGAL for the hospital staff to report either me or her to INS.
Sometimes I wonder myself, why am I so stupid to pay for all the insurance and the rest of the things I have. Must be my parents, who instilled in me honesty, work ethic and personal responsibility. It is really tough to get rid of your early parental teachings.
By the same token, once the parents/school/government teach you to be dependent on others, or even worse, to demand that others support you and the society just "owes" you for being born, it is hard to forget that either.
"Anyone who isn't a liberal by the time they're 20 has no heart, anyone who isn't a conservative by the time they are 30 has no brain." -- Winston Churchill.
Books are great, but it comes a time when you should stop reading books an think for a while. Don't believe something just because it is printed. Even Hillary can "write" a book, would you read it?
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wait a minute here... from the socialists I am hearing that we need to tax ourselves into prosperity (even tho it has never been done before)... they say that taxes and govenment sevices are what makes for a strong econmomy.... in the same breath, they say that the U.S. has the lowest taxes of any civilized nation yet... we are the strongest economy of any civilized nation...
now... should we increase or decrease taxes to improve our economy class?
oh... public schools are indeed socialism and private schools do indeed do a much better job at educating children... If education is the goal of education then there is no contest... voucher and private school is the way to go. if you have some other agenda for education then .... can't help ya.
lazs
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Actually i am planning on moving out of the country once i get my degree. But it all depends on where the job markets are at.
don't wait ... here you go:
frogs degree (http://onlinesapiens.com/)