Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dowding on July 18, 2003, 10:53:12 AM
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Don't know how much the 'sexing up' of the so called 'dodgy dossier' has been covered in the US. The PM has not come through it smelling of roses.
The death of this guy is a major development - the news services over here are going nuts, as is their want.
Body 'matches' Iraq expert (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3076801.stm)
And for those who worship at the Murdoch altar:
ARMS 'MOLE': BODY FOUND (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1097399,00.html)
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1. Dr Kelly was accused of being a mole (spy??) who reported to a BBC journalist about doctoring of intelligence dossiers about Iraq to improve Blair's case for war.
2. BBC refuses to comment if Dr Kelly was the source of information.
3. Dr Kelly informed his line manager of meeting the BBC journalist but denies accusing Gov of doctoring intelligence.
4. Gov Ministers give out his name as a mole ( spy??) and he is
brought before a parliamenty enquiry - who agree with him he was NOT the source that has caused the gov so much discomfort.
5. Dr Kelly rubbishes Blair's comments that WMD can be used in 45 minutes.
6. Days later Dr Kelly is found dead a mile from his home after going for a walk.
Heads are going to roll.
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Sounds like a less-than-professional-hit
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Well if he really did leak that kind of classfied stuff, it's hard to think he didn't get what he deserved.
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Not so much that - although it does read like an espionage novel - I doubt he was murdered. It's the government rubbishing a man's reputation after 'outing' him, deliberately and openly to the point where he tops himself. All to save the an unelected spin doctor who is recognised as the power behind Blair's throne - Alastair Campbell.
They tried to bully the BBC into shutting up about the dossier - even threatening it's status regarding the license fee - and when they wouldn't play ball they went directly for the journalist and then the source.
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I would agree with Dowding on that
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
1. Dr Kelly was accused of being a mole (spy??) who reported to a BBC journalist about doctoring of intelligence dossiers about Iraq to improve Blair's case for war.
2. BBC refuses to comment if Dr Kelly was the source of information.
3. Dr Kelly informed his line manager of meeting the BBC journalist but denies accusing Gov of doctoring intelligence.
4. Gov Ministers give out his name as a mole ( spy??) and he is
brought before a parliamenty enquiry - who agree with him he was NOT the source that has caused the gov so much discomfort.
5. Dr Kelly rubbishes Blair's comments that WMD can be used in 45 minutes.
6. Days later Dr Kelly is found dead a mile from his home after going for a walk.
Heads are going to roll.
So... what you're saying is that the media was the one who stood to gain the most by his death. Gotcha.
MiniD
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What classified stuff? He alledgedly said that dossier was over-exaggerated, unsubstanciated wishful thinking used to sway a public into supporting a war - he didn't reveal any state secrets.
Unless the 'fact' that the dossier was trash is covered by the Official Secrets Act. And that has implications all on its own.
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Yep the old BBC hitmen hunted him down - good grief what are you...home schooled, played too much football without a helmet or have you been reading waaayyyy too many of those Tom Clancy novels - they're not actually true you know - HE MAKES THEM UP!!!!
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I'm sorry... but did you not outline a set of circumstances that implicate a group as responsible? I just don't think you actually have the facilities to see beyond what you'd like to see.
MiniD
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Originally posted by funkedup
Well if he really did leak that kind of classfied stuff, it's hard to think he didn't get what he deserved.
It's not that hard.
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I wonder if it's the same guy who snuffed Vince Foster?
-Sik
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was a grassy knoll anywhere around? look there first ...
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"Sounds like a less-than-professional-hit"
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Less than professional would mean he was still alive. When the desired result is that this dead man can "tell no tales" then it looks like someone will be getting at least a "meets all objectives" mark on thier merit review.
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The guy was under a lot of stress. He was out exercising. Maybe he simply had a heart attack. He was 59 yoa... I haven't seen anything yet on cause of death, or trauma.
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If the people behind the dossier are morally capable of murdering a citizen to cover up a conspiracy, wouldn't they be morally capable of planting a few barells of anthrax in Iraq? Why wouldn't they just do that instead of commiting a highly visible murder that is going to result in much greater scrutiny into that which they are trying to cover up?
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Wheres Hilliary? Is this guy associated in any way with Hilliary?
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Originally posted by Lance
If the people behind the dossier are morally capable of murdering a citizen to cover up a conspiracy, wouldn't they be morally capable of planting a few barells of anthrax in Iraq? Why wouldn't they just do that instead of commiting a highly visible murder that is going to result in much greater scrutiny into that which they are trying to cover up?
Stop it Lance. You're starting to think into things too much. You need to identify someone you don't like and keep the story simple enough to implicate them.
Only those evil government employees would stoop to falsifying things, lieing, cover ups, sensationalism and murder in general. Never you mind that the damage had already been done and they stood nothing to gain by it.
MiniD
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the french have denied any knowledge of any Dr. Kelly and any checks he may have cashed from the govt of france are forgerys.
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Who said anything about murder? What's this bull**** about grassy knolls? Stop throwing up a smokescreen and taking this thread off-topic. There's no mention of foul play at all, and certainly not by me. There's no conspiracy theory, so drop the roll-eyes infested posts.
He may have died of a heart attack - but the cause of death is only a side issue. The way the guy was treated by the media and the government was disgraceful. He was a pawn for sacrifice to cover a spin doctor or a media rag-doll depending on how you want to look at it. And either way the government doesn't look good in the affair.
At least now we will get a judicial inquiry into the sorry mess.
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LOL dowding, your funny :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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LOL Dowding... maybe you should read the post right below yours?
And...
"At least now we will get a judicial inquiry into the sorry mess."
ROTFLMAO!
MiniD
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That's the best you can do mini-d? I'm not going to speak for Schaden, but does he mention a murder? Grassy knolls?
My point about the inquiry is that it has taken a man's death to bring it about. That's the crappy part about it. It was the first thing the MoD announced after the death was revealed.
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Ummm... a conspiracy was outlined dowding, and murder was implied. Sorry you don't see that, but I'm not really seeing any real attempts at thought in this thread from you.
The "grassy noll" is standard conspiracy speak. Once again... totally implied.
MiniD
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Dowdings going off half cocked! Its a tea party alright.
DOWDING!!!!! DOWDING!!!!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Kelly spoke to the journalist concerned and gave him some background info, no secrets.
When the row between the BBC and government broke out, Kelly told his bosses at the ministry of defence that he had talked to the journalist.
The government then released Kelly's name to the press, and tried to use him to discredit the BBC story, by pointing out he didn't tell the BBC the dossier was "sexed up"
Kelly was then questioned by a parliamentary committee, and has been repeatedly accused by government ministers of being the source for the story, even though Kelly himself denied it.
Kelly was apparently stressed, and his wife said he was upset when he went out yesterday. Reading between the lines, he killed himself.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Dowdings going off half cocked! Its a tea party alright.
DOWDING!!!!! DOWDING!!!!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The only thing that's half cocked is Mini D's mini d.
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As is their want Tee hee
Try: won't... or is that the American version?
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BTW Dowding, "Sexing Up" has a little different meaning in American. It implies this guy copulated with the dossier. :)
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Originally posted by funkedup
BTW Dowding, "Sexing Up" has a little different meaning in American. It implies this guy copulated with the dossier. :)
It means something else to our British friends? I just figured that's what killed the guy. Now I'm confused :confused:
-Sik
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Mini-D - you don't understand plain English. I've stated three times that I don't think murder was involved. I stated it at the top of the thread when someone else suggested it. I don't know how else I can express that it.
Funkedup - 'Sexing up' isn't my choice of words - that was a direct quote, so blame them not me.:)
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As is their want Tee hee
Try: won't... or is that the American version?
Thanks for the tip, but you'll find I'm closer to the correct word. I believe it is wont.
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Originally posted by Dowding
What classified stuff? He alledgedly said that dossier was over-exaggerated, unsubstanciated wishful thinking used to sway a public into supporting a war - he didn't reveal any state secrets.
Unless the 'fact' that the dossier was trash is covered by the Official Secrets Act. And that has implications all on its own.
The Official Secrets Act does cover divulging any such information gained by their appointment to any unauthorised person without previous official sanction by the MOD.
So, it depends what caveat was carried by the dossier. If it carried a Restricted or higher classification and he is commenting whether it was accurate or not then he is in breach of the Official Secrets Act because: a) he has taken advantage of his position to see sensitive material, and b) he is not authorised to discuss/comment on the material without prior permission of the MOD or Chief of Public Relations.
However had the dossier been made officially public then he is not liable for prosecution, although disciplinary action maybe taken. This of course is also dependant on whether he is a crown employee and whether he's signed the Official Secrets Act!
I haven't really been following this case so I can't comment on what I've read. I do know that I wouldn't trust Alistair Campbell or the BBC for that matter.
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The dossier was not classified or restricted. It was a 12 year old plagerized thesis by a PHd student without due credit to him. Somewhere along the line of 'editing' (read alledged embellishment) the 45 minute claim was added. Campbell insists the draft he saw did not have the 45 minute WMD readiness claim, so it wasn't sanctioned by him. This is disputed.
Neither the BBC nor the journalist who broke the 'sexed up dossier' story have revealed their source despite massive governmental pressure. With no breakthrough in sight, 9 days ago, the government revealed Dr. Kelly as the source as ammunition in the fight with the BBC. He was put in front of a select committee and grilled like some criminal. This worldwide reknowned scientist, a world authority on Iraqi WMD and loyal servant to Britain was humiliated.
And now the guy is dead, either through stress or by his own hand.
I've had enough of Blair and his gang. I think I'll make grandfather turn in his grave and vote conservative for the next election.
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When Blair first came into power I honestly must confess to admiring him. But now seeing how he works and how he belittles everyone and doesn't take any notice of the British public has made me despise him. He's a complete egomaniac and he will not stop until he's happy with what he wants to do (and not the publics wishes).
The sad thing is that there's not one party I feel that I can identify with. I've always voted Independant at the elections because they normally have local issues at heart. I hate the Tories (mostly because of our local MP) but like you I maybe tempted to vote Tory just to get Blair out.
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IIRC, also a word document surfaced from british intelligence, still having earlier revisions in it (that`s what you get for using M$ in the intelligence business), the article was somewhere on http://www.heise.de
Other than that, it`s a suspicious train of events... I guess he had a heart attack from all the stress, or committed suicide because of placing his country/administration in a bad light... . . . . . . .
Edit: found the article (http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/special/irak/15115/1.html)