Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: brady on July 21, 2003, 02:56:11 PM
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This Friday the 25the were going to rerun the Okinawa set up from Last May:
This is a CM Terain Team Map, all those who took part in it's creation should be very proud it is an amasing map. All Aircraft have relavent and in most cases New skins.
The Allies will start with all their assest's at see, if they take a Base they will have Army Air assest and GV's available.
Fleat hardness will be 50% of MA standard, 4k for a Cv and 750 pounds for any other ship.
All bases have SB's they will be set to 5k, as apposed to 4k wich is their default seting.
The Ack gun hardenss will be increased to 50KG.
Ack lethality will be at .7, like it is normaly in the CT.
Dot dar will be at 20 miles for enemy and unlimited for friendly.
500 foot height for dar.
The plane set:
At start up all Allied airpower will be sea based, if the Allies take a base US Army Air assest's will be available their as well as GV's.
Plane set:
Their are two types of Allied CV task forces, one with 4 CV's and one with one CV. The 4 CV groups have two CA in them along with their CV's and the Single CV groupe is just like a MA fleat. Their are also 4 CA TF's like we had on the slot map. For this set up will will be using, 2 single CV group's, one Four CV groupe and one 4 CA groupe. The Japanese will have one Single CA groupe.
USN:
From the Four CV groupe(C1):
Hellcat
Wildcat FM2
TBM
SBD
LVT's
From the Single CV groupe (C3):
F4U-1D
TBM
SBD
LVT's
Royal Navy:
From the single CV groupe(C4):
F4U-1A (Skined as a Royal Navy Coursare)
TBM
SBD
LVT's
US Army:
P47D-30
A20
C47
The M's
Panzer IV
PT's
Japan:
All of them.
C47
The M's
Panzer IV
PT's
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this setup was alot of fun last time it ran. but i have a few remarks, re, whines.
with the fleet hardness down you really have to careful with them. last time i was controling several fleets the first day of the setup. i was tryin to keep them a reasonable distance from the shore. i was getting yelled at for not moving them closer on the country channel. some one with a better rank finally got on and obliged the disgruntled masses. he then proceeded to sail them right on to the beach where our carriers where handily dispatched by people in the manned ack, not even the sb. sorry if you have to fly more than half a sector to get to a fight but lets try and be a little smarter this time.
anouther thing that bugged me was that the allies were never really able to push further inland. no big deal, there were always good fights to be found, but the large airbases were never really in play. these bases are very unique and the design team did a great job. i would like to see them used more. (also heard a post con rumor that this is more what the bases will look like in ah2)
just a couple of suggestions, didnt mean to whine, this setup will be a ton of fun!!!
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I played that last set up a lot and the Alies quiet often took the outer islands the ones to the west of Okinawa, and most all of the fighting took place on Okinawa it's self, every evening one two and sometimes three Bases on Okinawa were in Allied Hands.
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F4U-1C and F4U-4 should really be included, as these both types saw first combat here, at the battle for Okinawa. After all, should CT be historical ?
They could be perked to prevent overusage, though.
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oh no, you mentioned the c word. And the 4 word in the same post.
let the real whining begin.
I am surprised a post that has f4u in it at all had survived with out loud crying this long.
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oh yeah, thanks brady! I missed most of the f6f fun last time. Glad to see it again so soon.
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I don't think anyone will dispute the historical inclusion of the Chog or F4U-4.
Personally, I have no objection to the Chog, because it's not appreciably faster or better handling the 1. On the other hand, the 4 hog is both better handling and faster than all other hog variants. The allies already have a considerable speed ad with the planes included. Adding the 4 may completely unbalance the situation.
I'll still fly IJ no matter what planes are given to the USN, but I think adding the 4 hog may be a bit of overkill.
I would suggest adding a sub for the Ki84 if the 4 hog is added, perhaps the Yak 9U reskinned with meatballs.
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Yak doesnt really have the same firepower though does it? I always thought a d9 might be a better replacement for the 84.
allies dont need those super birds anyway.
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thanks for including the a6m2 it was not included last time and I had to fly a Ki61 not that theres any thing wrong with that.:)
whats a good whine to go with cooked f4u's?
BTW the La5fn would be a closer Ki84 sub
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I think the 5n has the same firepower defficiency the Erg mentioned. However, the D9 turns like a pig while the Yak and La5n handle pretty well. I was more interested in a plane with similar handling and speed characteristics than the firepower issue.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be in a D9 going up against the 4 Hog.
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I dont know if it is Historical but the allies should have the F4U-1C and F4U-4 on land bases for the Marines.
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Originally posted by LtMagee
I dont know if it is Historical but the allies should have the F4U-1C and F4U-4 on land bases for the Marines.
and the japs should have some 109's because.. er .. just because :)
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yay... this has quickly become my favorite CT setup.
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I support the La5FN to stand in for the Ki84, too. Sounds very reasonable, and offers a very good chance against the USN planes.
Oh, I also think the Chog and the 4hog should be included to.
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I am not going to add the uber hog's, sry guy's:
"C", to uber would cause playbalance issues, as mentioned above the Allies have several advantags already and this would be a bit much.
"4" Pretymuch the same as above, and It saw very little action, only operated at the very end of the Batttle and I think they had a total of 9 kills in all for the entire war, at least thats what I remember for my Americas 100,000, even if it had a ton of kills I would not add it because of balance issues.
The CT is suposed to Historicaly based but never at the expence of game play.
I dont care for the concept of subing a Russian plane for the Ki-84 they are way diferent planes, and the imershion would go into the toilet, to do that would still not adress all the balance issues assoicated with adding the Uber Hog's.
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It's no skin off my nose either way, just a suggestion so the USN guys would have a chance to fly their little used uber hog rides. But, I do think it would be a very interesting experiment, so in that since I'm sorry that it won't be given a try.
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It's been tryed before, you just missed it:)
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Ive seen the C-Hog 1 time in a U.S.S.R vs Japan set up. Leave out the Hog-4 and lets us fly the C-Hog more than once a year. Where is the P-38 BTW?
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there were no p38s on station during the US landings at okinawa.
There were no land bases available that were close enough for the p38 to be involved, Those hogs that were "land based" were brought on carriers then transfered to land.
At okinawa the Japanese chose not to contest the landings so the US quickly overan those airbases on the SW end of the island. The US also secured some of the smaller islands around okinawa and used them as unsinkable carriers.
Chogs and F4u-4 were at okinawa but were heavily involved in the a2g aspect. In rl the US had a difficult time on okinawa. With the amount of ground cover and intricate cave systems the US needed a2g power. Thats not the case in ah. I can easily deack the largest field on okinawa, kil the radar and most of the fuel in an a6m5. A chog could probrably kill everything.
Currently theres no real defense for the axis should the allies roll up on their bases. They have a substantial advantage in jabo capability. In the overall scheme of things the chog and f4u-4s contribution to the okinawa invasion was limited. In the ct these 2 planes would become the norm, not the exception.
In the last setup the axis held on to the island mostly because of the "stupidity" of most of the admirals who sailed their fleet right up to the axis sbs. So they were sunk.
Overall I think the way the last set up was run 85% of the time it was one of the best. The other 15% was what you usually find in pac set ups. I dont think it needs any more tweaking.
Incidentally in the scenario "Operation Iceberg" the chog, the f4u-4 and even the f4u-1 will be involved. In scenarios its eaier to limit the impact of some planes. Even in operation iceberg these 3 planes will have a larger percentage of sorties then they did in the real battle.
The one plane that is missed in both is the ki-84. But until one comes to ah theres not much we can do. Like brady said the la5 is a poor sub and an immersion killer.
imo the fm2 and f6f put up the best fight.
I hope brady remembers to add the fm2 to the land bases.
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there were no p38s on station during the US landings at okinawa. Did not know that. Thanks.
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Ya I am (FM2) forgot to mention that, I coppied my last set up notes:)
"Ive seen the C-Hog 1 time in a U.S.S.R vs Japan set up."
I used it twice in that set up and once I had the F4U-4 enebled in it.
"Leave out the Hog-4 and lets us fly the C-Hog more than once a year."
I would love to, but it causes some balance issues, at least on this set up,I think their still prety cheap in the MA.
P38 would cause Balance issues as well, speead firpower ordance ect..., and they werent their.
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How long will it take before some axis biast CT manager removes the corsair due to axis winging?????
any takers 1 hour, 2 hours, even as long as 1 day???
I suggest that if you want to fly the corsair you do it quick before its removed or even "forgoten" to be included,
Marcof.
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Originally posted by ergRTC
Yak doesnt really have the same firepower though does it? I always thought a d9 might be a better replacement for the 84.
allies dont need those super birds anyway.
Nah Spit 9 or 14 instead of the Ki84A is my vote, 190A5 for the Jack
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marcof, this scenario isnt running yet.
did the ki really handle like a spit9? I could buy a spit14, but the way the ki84 handles in warbirds, I would be a little skeptical of that too. Little more stall happy like a 190.
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In AW it handled better than Spit XIV, but not as well as Spit IX. Had good guns, good top speed and excellent accelleration. I recall it being able to turn with a Hellcat.
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Yeah, I played air warrior for 5 years. I still consider that flight model so porked comparissons just are not worth considering. I never played warbirds online, but i have 3 on my puter.
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Originally posted by najdorf
In AW it handled better than Spit XIV, but not as well as Spit IX. Had good guns, good top speed and excellent accelleration. I recall it being able to turn with a Hellcat.
It did not accelerate like a Spit but handled well at high speeds and would out turn the spit if you got slow and notched yer flaps. I never had a Spit IX out turn me (flat turn, I think the Spit and P-38s were the looping champs) in AW when flying a Ki-84 unless it was at higher speeds but as soon as you started in turns all the Jap planes in AW, notch a flap and get inside anything. It ate Hellcats up if you flew it right. Taking it high killed it. After awhile in AW yo couldn't go anywhere without encountering Cats, Ponies and Corsairs at 25-30K. The '84 had no real game up there.
Sakai
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marcof
me, ramzey and lucull flew N1K against F4U's tonight for about 45 minutes. We got 9 kills for 2 deaths, so even though the F4U's can put their nose down and run at will, they still have to mix it up if they want a kill. Most of our kills were through dragging/setting up/covering. I had no real complaints
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yeah George is a real pain in the ass. All I saw tonight was SOB landed 5 kills, 6 kills, 3 kills, kill kill kill kill in a N1J2k. Then there is the KI-67 again geesh. I only saw a handfull of A6M5s and 3 B5Ns. This is rediculus.
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Blame the fleet commodore that sailed our fleets right into the thick of everything. Personally, I blame Logitech. (That treasonous aircraft joystick manufacturer that has no qualms about sending some of our boys to their doom just to make a buck off of shoddy workmanship!*) ;)
Tis a good map and a good planeset and it will undoubtedly prove or disprove some theories about balanced gameplay based on nothing more than statistical speed charts. :D
*Well, Arlo ... you get what you pay for.
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Originally posted by ergRTC
marcof, this scenario isnt running yet.
did the ki really handle like a spit9? I could buy a spit14, but the way the ki84 handles in warbirds, I would be a little skeptical of that too. Little more stall happy like a 190.
From FA realistic mode the Ki84A is very like the Spit9 - 14 a little too fast - there is no close match up available for the C version with 2 x 30mm and 2 x 20mm on a Spit 9 FM.
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turn down the fleet ack
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Their were no Ki-84C with the 30mm produced in any number's, this is incorectly listed in many book's, Namely Buschels Ki-84 book.
Their is now way to turn the fleat ack down, and even if I were to lower the lethality of the auto ack it would still be bad it is simply the density of the 5 inch auto guns, which fortunatly goes way dwon once you sink one or two ships in a fleat.
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Blame the fleet commodore that sailed our fleets right into the thick of everything
Yeah, did you notice that I kept C-3 (Britsih F4U) fleet well off shore? This allowed us F4U guys a chance to depart gain alt and head into the fight. Also kept it from getting sunk.
Even with the heavy ack, the Georges landed more kills in any sorty than anything else.
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I blame Logitech. (That treasonous aircraft joystick manufacturer that has no qualms about sending some of our boys to their doom just to make a buck off of shoddy workmanship!*) hehehe:D Them and Thrustmaster