Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on May 14, 2001, 06:44:00 PM
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Can one of you guys please explain the half-wing behavior modeling. We all know that some planes like the F4U, Niki, FW190, and I belive also Typhoon and F6F can go on flying reasonably well after they recieve the half-wing damage. While planes like the Spit, Me109, and yak etc.. cannnot even maintain level flight. Some have said this is just a random representaition of general wing damage, but I think this is false as the planes behave exactly the same every time they loose a wing half. Others have said that planes with high roll rates are able to overcome the loss of lift due to their aileron power, however I belive this is false too as the F6F and especially Typhoon have rather low roll rates. Plus somebody posted a WW2 picture of a TBM Avenger flying with half a wing as we see in AH- certainly this plane doesnt have a high roll rate- and even in the picture the opposite aileron was minimally deflected. So its not roll rate or aileron force. IT obviously has nothing to do with wing loading as the highly loaded FW190 can fly with the half wing damage while the much more lightly loaded Spit cannot. So whats the deal deal here guys, can you please take a few minutes to explain this and support this behavior.
My fear is that its completly arbitrary in how it works. Perhaps its no different than the earlier completely arbirtary oil-cooler leak run times, that have since been corrected. Perhaps its time to correct this one as well. But first It would be great of you guys at HTC to give us some info on why the planes fly as they do on half a wing.
Please respond to this Hitech or Pyro.
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Yes it's true, the wing-damage modeling is wierd, but think about it, you can't fight with half a wing. Pulling on the stick hard enough it will roll over. Let them go if the wing's gone. If they fight on, kill em.
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semperfi
(http://www.usmc.mil/templateml.nsf/marinesega.jpg)
Everything dead in 30 minutes or less or the next one's free.
-Marines
[This message has been edited by texace (edited 05-14-2001).]
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So that was you lastnight (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I rtb'd safely btw (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Usually I just keep shooting till the whole wing is gone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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P-51 is capable to fly with auto-pilot on with half wing missing.
Also La's are easy to fly and land with missing wingtip.
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HT said they're working on the graphical representations of this damage to more accurately show a missiong wingtip.
In other words, as it is now, more of the wing is showing to be gone than should be.
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Umm...
Some planes can fly with auto-pilot on while some can't even stay airborne.
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HB the graphical representation is actually irellevant. What is relevant are the wildly different flight effects of the "half-wing" damage, from plane to plane. It seems purely arbitrary wheter a plane can fly with half a wing or not. It isnt tied to roll rate, turn rate, speed, wing loading, aileron ability , airplane weight, overall wing size or anything. There is no consisistency whatsoever.
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I've landed 190's on several occasions with both wing tips missing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I'm no aeronautical engineer, but why should it be the same? If plane A has more wingloading than plane B, both planes lose 2 ft of their left wingtip, wouldn't plane A be more succeptible to a hard left roll than plane B?
Something to kick around anyway.
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Yep HB they should be diffrent, but consider this a spit has much lighter wingloading than 190. BUT in AH 190 flies with half-wing while a spit doesnt. So wingloading isnt a factor in this as far as AH is concerned. Thats what im sayiyng its arbitrary, just like the old oil-cooler leak run times were arbitrary.
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Good point.
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cc Grun, I have talked to HT about this, and half a wing is representative of wing damage.
Yet you do have a good point.
I believe wing damage is something HTC should really work on. IMO of course.
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Every gun camera footage I have ever seen of any plane losing its wingtip immediately rolls out of control. I saw footage of a 190 losing its outer 4 foot or so of wing and it rolled into oblivion. I have to also wonder at the damage to the control cables and pulleys that operate between the two control surfaces. If you damage one side its usually gonna screw up the other. I think if the damage gets into the aileron they should loose substantial control of the other aileron to. We want realism right? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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it is tied directly to durability
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Guys let's shut up and let Grunherz get his answer.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-15-2001).]
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edit
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-15-2001).]
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I think that 109 is the only fighter that doesn't fly with 1/2 wing missing. Even B17 is flyable if you shut down engines from the other wing.
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mora
Lentolaivue 34
[This message has been edited by mora (edited 05-15-2001).]
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From what I can see, the only arbitrary part would be how the wing is sectioned.
Ok, lets say HT models the wing in two sections. Each section has lift, drag, etc. forces put in the FM for it. Now all that happens when you lose a "wing tip" is that outer section gets removed. The lift, drag, etc. from that bit gets removed also. Depending on how long that piece was, and how the wing was shaped, the plane will fly differently missing that bit. In some planes that outside section may be a greater percentage of the lift than in others, so some will still be able to fly, while others will not. I believe HTC just removes the section and the forces it generates from the FM, and let the chips fall where they may.
So I don't believe the effect is arbitrary at all. The only arbitrary part, (and HTC may very well have some means to determine this so it may not be arbitrary at all) may be where you draw the line between the sections. Once you do that and apply the different forces, when the outer section gets removed, so do the forces that went with it. Simple.
Now, I want to make it clear I don't REALLY know how this works. I'm taking a shot at how I think it MIGHT work here. The effects I see do seem to support my guess though. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://lephturn.webhop.net) for AH articles and training info!
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I think one of the biggest problems is that planes missing 1/2 wings can still fly at top speed. I remember once chasing a N1K that was missing 1/2 a wing, couldn't catch him with a Typhoon!
Wouldn't such unequal wing lengths create enough yaw to spoil the aerodynamic efficiency of the aircraft? At least enough to slow it down noticeably?
I have escaped many fights in 1/2 winged hogs. I have also gotten kills in 1/2 winged hogs and been killed by 1/2 winged hogs.
eskimo
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u can lend in spit with half wing!
did that feww times, and saw some uthere guys too.
btw niki can go without 2 wing tips and still rtb home safe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) using only rudder and elevators (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) that`s a B.S. in my opinion.
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HT mentioned in Blue text on Sunday that they were in the process of moving the line back on the graphic display of each plane. I.E. you will see maybe a foot or two missing, not BS IMO.
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Hey, this looks like a good place to ask this question. I was flying a P-47-30 last night and had a flap taken out along with a gun (this was the only damage per ctl-d). Usually a missing flap does nothing to my ability to fly other planes, but last night it was all I could do to hold the plane level. I was missing the left flap (could see a gaping hole where it used to be) and the plane was rolling hard to the left. Even full aileron trim could not level the plane. I wound up flying on auto at about a35-40 degree bank to the left.
Has this happened to others or was this a "fluke" glitch in the numbers?
Buhdman, out
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buhdman, I think flap damage results in it being jammed in the current position. I've had the exact situation you described, where the plane has a pronounced roll even though both wingtips are present. I noticed that my flap indicator was permanently stuck at the 1st notch. When i dropped 1 notch of flaps the plane flew normally (i.e. the non-jammed flap came down and counteracted the moment from the jammed flap).
I've also had my right flap jammed at 1 notch and my right wingtip off. With the left flap retracted the plane (a d30) flew pretty well actually.
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Thanks, regurge! Come to think of it, I was in a bit of a furball when this happened and I'll bet my flaps were down a notch and I never noticed. That would certainly explain the behavior.
Thanks!
Buhdman, out
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Walt (buhdman) Barrow
(formerly lt-buhd-lite)
The Buccaneers - "Return with Honor"
home.earthlink.net/~wjbarrow