Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on July 22, 2003, 10:58:59 AM
-
Did they get em? (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20030722/ts_nm/iraq_usa_sons_dc)
-
Why did Saddam give his sons pig-latin names anyway?
-
Yep, looks like they might have got them.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Yep, looks like they might have got them.
GOOD.
Those sick little puppies deserve everything they get. Now, where's their daddy?
-
I wonder if pics of their dead bodies ( if this is true) will be presented to the public in order to convince everyone.
-
Yay! One for the good guys
-
How long does it take to get a DNA match?
Hours?
Days?
Weeks?
-
good... even better.. no trial.
WTFG, 101st!!
-
I wonder how many Iraqi mothers are openly rejoicing at this news.
Thousands? Tens of thousands? More?
Two down one to go. The future of the family business looks bleak.
-
Not long Muckmaw - depends how badly the DNA sample is chewed up and whether they have a previous sample to compare with. I would assume they have the whole thing set up ready to go.
I would have liked to have seen them brought to trial. Humiliation would probably be worse than death for these guys. Now they are out of it.
-
Originally posted by Dowding
Not long Muckmaw - depends how badly the DNA sample is chewed up and whether they have a previous sample to compare with. I would assume they have the whole thing set up ready to go.
I would have liked to have seen them brought to trial. Humiliation would probably be worse than death for these guys. Now they are out of it.
Dowding I must say I like your avitar change :)
As far as I.D. , it sounds like DNA tests may not be needed.
-
Why, thankyou. It's been the squad noseart for years (although obviously it doesn't spin when it's on the plane unless the pilot is doing something wrong). ;)
-
no access too news right now.....
are they dead or alive?
-
I liked the old one Dowding...far more appropriate. ;)
-
news mentioned bodies.. not prisoners.
which means absolutely nothing since it's still 'breaking news', synonomous with 'rampant rumor'.
-
Ay-they Are-ay ead-day.
-
I’m putting in the first bid on Ebay for Uday's canes...JK;)
-
101st Airborne Screaming Eagles
And let it be a lesson to Uday and Quusay for not listening to their dad when he told them to split up
-
Originally posted by SLO
no access too news right now.....
are they dead or alive?
Senior Defense offical says "90-95% sure" they killed Uday and Qusay.
What does this mean? Nothing until we get 100% confirmation, but it's a good sign.
WTG Screamin' Eagles!
-
Why do we go around killing people. I thought we were the good guys....
-
Wouldn't you rather here that news about Osama Bin Laden ? I would..........
-
I would think these people were killed because they fired on the troops who were trying to capture them.
-
WTG would rather have them alive so they could interegate them but at least they got them.
-
Uday and Qusay staryng in danger in Iraq instead of living elsewhere with their stolen billions does not match well the propaganda image of them as selfish un-patriotic cowards.
Of course massive amounts of automatic firearms in private posession of the Iraqi population and widely open borders did not match the propaganda image of a badly oppressed country either.
If the general american public were less incapabe of independent thought, the authorities would have had to conceal the fact that they killed Saddam's sons in Iraq and stage a fake operation elsewhere - nailing them in some french bordello would have been a nice touch.
miko
-
miko , your words are in english , but i do not understand their meaning.
some bad guys are dead, as Martha would say "it's a good thing".
reports from bagdad say people are celabrating in the streets on the news Uday is dead.
-
I've got 6 years of higher education and I have no idea what you are trying to say, Miko.
I read 1 sentence that was a triple negative!
Are you using a piece of translation software, or is english your second language?
Either way, your point is not coming across.
-
WTFG SCREAMING EAGLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Centcom "We are certain Uday and Qusay are dead".
Of course, he never said if it was Uday Hussein or Uday Johnson of Finkelstein, Iowa.
Reported on Fox news.
-
john9001: miko , your words are in english , but i do not understand their meaning.
some bad guys are dead, as Martha would say "it's a good thing".
reports from bagdad say people are celabrating in the streets on the news Uday is dead.
I completely agree that the Hussein family are the bad guys. Theologically speaking, they are eligible for a spot in Hell just for volunteering to run a country.
They killed a lot of people, sure.
On the other hand we have to think on the margin here, not in general. Anyone capable of staying in control of a unified secular socialist Iraq would have been a bad guy and would have had to kill and intimidate a lot of people, so by selecting the "best" ruler we have to concentrate on relative badness, not absolute one.
Basically, whoever could kill the least number of people in iraq and still prevent a breakdown and civil war (resulting in much more deaths) would be the optimal choice.
Obviously, since it is very hard to estimate an exact number, it always pays for a ruler to be on the safe side and kill few thousands more political opponents than strictly necessary. This way one can be more sure of averting a civil war that would have cost hundreds of thousands dead, mostly innocent civilians remote from politics.
I am not so sure that having bad guys dead is always a good thing. I have been watching the post-colonial africa closely as well as other "liberated" areas.
Since the decolonisation and eviction of bad imperialist exploiters, they were killing bad guys non-stop, but the new leaders consistently proved even worse than their predecessors and harder on the population.
Ian Smith was considered a bad guy untill we knew Mugabe, Tito was considered overly harsh in running Yugoslavia untill we had the ethnic cleansing. Heck, even Tsar Nikolas the Second was considered a tyrant by many before Stalin came on the scene.
I see a lot of statements that Hussein killed too many people.
Our plans for Iraq are exactly the same as his - keeping it unified, secular and socialist.
I believe we will have to find out for ourselves how many people need to be killed in order to keep Iraq orderly and unified and out of hands of muslim fundamentalists.
I am far from sure that hoever succeeds in subduing Iraq, his totals would be much lower than Hussein's.
miko
-
Anyone capable of staying in control of a unified secular socialist Iraq would have been a bad guy and would have had to kill and intimidate a lot of people, so by selecting the "best" ruler we have to concentrate on relative badness, not absolute one.
Speculative fact?
-
muckmaw: I've got 6 years of higher education and I have no idea what you are trying to say, Miko.
I read 1 sentence that was a triple negative!
Are you using a piece of translation software, or is english your second language?
English is my second language. We often use longer sentences in Russian than english speakers are accustomed to. Not as bad as german but close.
It may be hard for me to judge how clear my statements are, so I am sorry for not being clear at times.
Basically, my point is this:
We know that Hussein family has a lot of money stashed and had plenty of time and opportunities to escape.
Staying in danger is something that a brave patriot would do, not a selfish coward. Of course one has to think for oneself to realise that.
If we had more people capable of independent though, they would ask why the actions of the Hussein family do not match the image depicted by propaganda.
midnight Target: Speculative fact?
We have a few million Kurds who want an independent state including some oil-rich areas. We have a few million Shia who want to democratically establish a fundamental muslim state. There is nothing speculative about that.
We know those are bad, otherwise we would not be preventing them from doing what they want. We want Kurds and southern Shia to be firmly attached to the central "suni triangle" and run by a secular government paying lip service to religious and cultural divercity. We want that government keeping oil pumps operating and the bloodshed to a minimum, while providing opposition to Iran.
If that sounds just like Hussein's program, that's because it is.
miko
-
We had a few million loyalists, and a few million rebels and a few million people somewhere in the middle.
How many exactly did George Washington have killed?
(I think you are basing your "necessities of government" on the Soviet Model)
-
Originally posted by miko2d
Staying in danger is something that a brave patriot would do, not a selfish coward. Of course one has to think for oneself to realise that.
miko
you mean like hitler staying in berlin until the end?
-
midnight Target: We had a few million loyalists, and a few million rebels and a few million people somewhere in the middle.
I do not blame George Washington personally but quite a few loyalist civilians were killed - and many were forced to leave the country. Of course both sides the "patriots" and the loyalists used a lot of tricks that reduced the actual death toll.
For instance, if you rape the women and then kill the whole families in most cruel and graphic ways, you maximise the effect and induce the rest of the opponents to flee. This way you may not need to kill them and the overal death toll is reduced.
(I think you are basing your "necessities of government" on the Soviet Model)
Absolutely true. But that is what was happening in Iraq and what we are enforcing right now.
miko
-
Miko, you are wasting your time. They can not understand the argument, any more than they understand the value of a cherry blossom as a valid tactic of War.
-
when the bluebird flys over the white cliffs of dover, fire will fall from the sky on your cities.
-
You have to forgive miko. He's a former commie that moved to the US to talk about the "good old days of the USSR" and how horrible the US is while living off tax payers dollars and trying to learn English. Someone call INS.
-
Poor Miko, it is terrible to be able to be objective........
-
Uday and Qusay staryng in danger in Iraq instead of living elsewhere with their stolen billions does not match well the propaganda image of them as selfish un-patriotic cowards.
Name one country they could have fled to. They lived the life of princes in a crime family, and when they lost power they had no options left. They could trust no one.
ra
-
ra: Name one country they could have fled to. They lived the life of princes in a crime family, and when they lost power they had no options left. They could trust no one.
Your argumant is so simplistic that it takes me quite an effort not to insult your intelligence.
They had to stay somewhere as long as they were stuck on planet Earth, so the question is not whether some country would have been dangerous to them but what country would have been least dangerous place for them - if safety and selfishness were their main concerns.
Could you name a country which was more dangerous to them to stay in than a Kurdish-controlled part of Iraq? More thoroghly searched by larger number of enemy soldiers? Where they had more enemies or people who could have recognised and betrayed them?
I could name quite a few countries where they could have been granted refuge with open or tacit cooperation of a government. Russia would have treated them as heroes, for starters. They could have been safer in US, especially if they got plastic surgery. Or in South America. Or in some other socialist regime.
miko
-
REUTERS Official german news agency writes that according to US Army sources Saddams Sons are dead !
http://www.reuters.de/news_article.jhtml?type=topnews&StoryID=3135989
artikel from 10 pm MET
-
Your argumant is so simplistic that it takes me quite an effort not to insult your intelligence.
-
bbc sourse
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3088393.stm
-
south america? , well how do you get from iraq to south america? call your travel agent?
-
Originally posted by miko2d
ra: Name one country they could have fled to. They lived the life of princes in a crime family, and when they lost power they had no options left. They could trust no one.
Your argumant is so simplistic that it takes me quite an effort not to insult your intelligence.
They had to stay somewhere as long as they were stuck on planet Earth, so the question is not whether some country would have been dangerous to them but what country would have been least dangerous place for them - if safety and selfishness were their main concerns.
Could you name a country which was more dangerous to them to stay in than a Kurdish-controlled part of Iraq? More thoroghly searched by larger number of enemy soldiers? Where they had more enemies or people who could have recognised and betrayed them?
I could name quite a few countries where they could have been granted refuge with open or tacit cooperation of a government. Russia would have treated them as heroes, for starters. They could have been safer in US, especially if they got plastic surgery. Or in South America. Or in some other socialist regime.
miko
You are always straining not to insult others' intelligence, so you should be used to the effort. It is always so enlightening to read your posts.
Why do you think they chose Mosul if they didn't think it was safe? Do you really think they are patriotic heros who wanted to fight for Iraq?
No country could have let these two in without making itself a target of international sanctions, to say the very least.
Russia??? Yeah, they would love to harbor these two. They want to look even more like a state run by a mafia.
These two stayed put because if they had moved away from their support base, ie their paid bodyguards and assassins, they would have had to make it on their own, living in seclusion in a foreign land. I doubt they knew how to read a train schedule let alone disappear into the world and live anonymously. They had no choice but to go down with the regime. For the last 3 months they have been just delaying the inevitable.
ra
-
I'm not sure I could read a train schedule. That writing is so small...
-
if they'd been caught alive - miko would be arguing we shoulda killed them ...