Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: T1loady on July 22, 2003, 03:12:33 PM
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Ok guys, I have been flying AH for about 9 months now and I have tried about every plane in the book, and I cant find one I like for tank busting. I an not the best aim in the world with bombs or rockets, but I dont suck either. Can anyone out there shed some light on the art of killing tanks/ flacks and what plane they use best for this. Thanks in advance for taking a little time to help out a "Newbee" ..
T1Loady
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YAK-9U
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IL-2 is the best for pure tank busting - 6 bombs, rockets and hard-hitting 23mm cannon.
I personally prefer the 110, but it`s guns are useless vs. PzIV / VI.
For dense concentrations of GVs - VH littered with Flaks - nothing beats a Stuka with 1800kg bomb.
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Sweet jesus... 0.3 k/d after 9 months? Anyway... IL-2 is probably the best for popping tanks.
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Il-2, shoot tanks into the side with the cannons.
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bf110G-2 is very good for tank busting with its suite of 30mm and 20mm cannons and can carry a decent payload of external ordnance as well. The N1K2 I've seen used to great effect in the tank busting role as well as planes like the Typhoon and Tempest. The P-38L is another plane that is pretty good in the tank busting role. I think pretty much any plane that has cannons and/or can carry external ordnance can be used successfully in the tank busting role.
Ack-Ack
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Definately the IL-2.
It's really sloppy against AA vehicles - big and slow target, and those .50s on the M-16 or the 37mms on the Ostwind will tear you apart real quick. But when it comes to busting Panzers, IL-2 is the best. It does have some trouble against the Tiger though. I've actually seen a RS182 rocket bounce off from a Tiger. But then again, every plane without thousands of lbs ordnance available, have that kind of problem, so no biggy.
The Hurricane MkIID is actually a good Panzer killer, too. You need to land anything from 2~10 rounds of 40mms, preferably on the rear side, to disable the major components of the tank. But compared to the IL-2, the Hurri2D is very fragile, and can lose and shed wings even to Panzer pintle guns. Also, it's not very good against Tigers, too. I've detracked them once or twice, but never got them smoking.
Now, since AH tanks still don't have any 'immunity' against 20mms, and when shot long enough eventually the tank gets damaged and disabled, some people take advantage of this and just up a N1K2, and strafe all of those 900x20mm rounds. Eventually, it will disable a Panzer, or detrack a Tiger. Not as efficient as the IL-2 or the Hurri2D, but it has its advantages.
..
So all in all, Panzers are easy to deal with, as long as you have the right plane for the job. Tigers are, whatever you're in, hard to kill.
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....work just fine on the softskins, Il-2 on the tanks.
Cheers,
SoloMAW
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I can get 4 panzer/osti kills in one flight pretty easy. As with all the planes you want to attack high from the rear, it really makes a difference. With the Yak I just disable them, and move on the next target, no need wasting ammo, they'll usually get bored and bail and you'll get the kill. Panzers, M3's, M8's and LVT's are just yummy in the Yak. Osti's, PT's and M16's have to be looking the other way or you'll be in trouble. I try to get lined up by D600 and fire about 4 rds of that 37mm per pass. Any plane with big bombs will work as well :)
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WETRAT- My K/d is low because I was deployed about 6 of the last 9 months, but thanks for pointing it out. I used to just crash and reup a new plane, or just fly till i got shot down, but I am trying to get back to base now. Thanks for the advice guys.
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Il-2 is excellent, P-38 is very good/excellent also and has more upside as a fighter. The Typhoon is commonly used though is very vulnerable to hits from the front and a weak radiator.
Anything with LW guns is useless against armour. The Yak9T 37mm tends to give damage but not a kill. The Hurri IID has serious aiming issues (waggles like crazy) and a very small number of rounds.
Anything works against a soft vehicle though, M8, M16, M3, they all die easy to anything over a .303. Just about nothing is effective against a Tiger except a 1,000lb right on the roof (direct hit). A sleeper against soft vehicles might be the 190F8, it can actually have some fun with tiny bombs and lots of 20mm ammo.
-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps
The Assassins.
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YAK 9T No question.Ive gotten more GV kills in that plane than any other same targets same passes.The 9T will kill a GV faster and with less hits in my experience.
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Stuka 1800kg bomb will disable or kill a tiger whenever it hits anywhere close. For me, anyhow.
Edit: oh ya. If you're patient, the Stuka with the 2 250kg and 1 1k is it? Is pretty effective if you climb to about 1k over target and dive straight down onto where you think GV will be when bomb blows, then pull out and zoom back up. As with the IL2, it's too slow to be much of a threat to AA vehicles. With a couple few you can rack up 7-9 kills easy (and provided you don't try to squeeze in just one more flak before bingo) you can land em and have your name in lights in it ;) that's what makes it the best!
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Originally posted by wetrat
Sweet jesus... 0.3 k/d after 9 months?
IL2 is best theoretically. I fly LW or at least axis iron mostly, so I very seldomly upped it.
Plus, I`m not the hottest pilot around ;)
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well in overbkl's hand il2 is best but I know my a20 kills more gv's than most. usally 300 to 500 kills tod lately since I found her.. also likes to kill planes :)
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The Il-2 and Yak-9T do very well, but aproach from a shallow angle against the side or rear, preferably the rear. Do NOT attack the front.
P-38L, Bf110G-2, Mosquito VI, Typhoon, P-47D-30 and N1K2-J are decent as well.
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P38 is great gv buster,you can load hvy and climb to 4or5k
in no time.And the super turkey choke convergence is great for those 1.0 m3 m8 kills:D
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I don't like any of the dedicated tank-buster planes. To me, their guns aren't noticeably more effective than those of other planes. Against light armor, any plane's guns will kill, and tanks can be disabled by pretty much by any gun as well. In terms of killing tanks, the tank-buster guns don't seem to have much chance of scoring a direct kill, although they do seem to have a slightly higher chance of disabling the tank than regular guns. As has been said, disabling tanks often gets you kills when the nme bail out. However, the tank-buster planes are deathtraps in air-to-air, so you're often dead yourself before the nme bails.
Bottom line IMHO: the tank-buster planes sacrifice too much performance and ordnance for too small a gain in guns effectiveness vs. GVs.
Therefore, the best anti-tank planes IMHO are those that carry lots of bombs and/or rockets. It's nice to have some of both (ex: F6F, P38), or lots of bombs (ex: Me110) and still retain decent air-to-air performance once they're gone.
Of course, the best thing for killing tanks is a Tiger.
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Originally posted by Bullethead
I don't like any of the dedicated tank-buster planes. To me, their guns aren't noticeably more effective than those of other planes. Against light armor, any plane's guns will kill, and tanks can be disabled by pretty much by any gun as well. In terms of killing tanks, the tank-buster guns don't seem to have much chance of scoring a direct kill, although they do seem to have a slightly higher chance of disabling the tank than regular guns. As has been said, disabling tanks often gets you kills when the nme bail out. However, the tank-buster planes are deathtraps in air-to-air, so you're often dead yourself before the nme bails.
Bottom line IMHO: the tank-buster planes sacrifice too much performance and ordnance for too small a gain in guns effectiveness vs. GVs.
Therefore, the best anti-tank planes IMHO are those that carry lots of bombs and/or rockets. It's nice to have some of both (ex: F6F, P38), or lots of bombs (ex: Me110) and still retain decent air-to-air performance once they're gone.
Of course, the best thing for killing tanks is a Tiger.
No P47? Oh, and the Tiger is only good at killing nme Gvs if someone else is in it, this applies to everyone :D
I've had better anti-GV success in the planes designated for anti-GV roles.
You prolly would too, if you just remember that in every case but the Stuka, you only need to disable and mke it un-usable, adn they'll ditch. If not, they're prolly calling for supply M3s ;)
Pop a turret, pork an engine, and move on :)
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Wimps....
best is Hurri 2C......
even spit 9 does pretty good....2 250's and 1 500...plus a pretty good punch with that ammo(20mm and .50cal)
but me i prefer hurri 2c.....
and never forget...its not WHAT you attack with....but HOW you attack vehicles.....
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T1Loady, I am only an average pilot, but I find the IL2 is an excellent anti tank plane. It is my feeling a lot of people just don't have the patience to climb it to a proper altitude in order to take advantage of a tank's weaker top armor.
My gunnery is especially poor, but my dive bombing of GV's is even worse (so poor I most often don't carry to save on weight). I like the rockets, but 90% of GV's I kill are killed with guns only.
In the Il-2 I am 5.5:1 against the against the Panzer, however against the Ostwind I am only 2:1 - those things are scarey efficient at killing you. Attcking GV;s is great gunnery practice, I think it l helps me learn to shoot better.
The 110G2 is also very good with the 30mm option. It's not as armored as the IL2, but the bad guys have a lot harder time hitting a 110.
The primary thing is to work on your accuracy with your weapons and as you do you will get better at everything. It is the #1 all of us work on, it is what separates the average pilots from the really good ones.
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Hey guys, Thanks a bunch for all the advice. I got on last night and accually did very well in the 110G-2. I found that it is great for taking out ack and will really knock the crap out of a town. There were about 8 or 9 of us flying together over on the west side of the current map, and in about an hour we took 4 bases. Why is it some nights I can get guys to work together and then sometime it always feels like a free for all. I understand guy are worried about getting perkies and lowering there rank, but isnt the overall goal of the game to win the map? I find that if you can get even just a few people to work together you can just roll over bases without killing everything at the base (just the ack's and the vh as a minimum) 2guys that can ge the town down and boom, goon the place. What if anything can I do to get guys to work together? Or should I just concide and enjoy it when it happens. . If anyone wants to email me an anwers feel free if you dont want to post here... Again, just a rather newbee trying to get some advice.. Thanks again
T1oady
t1load@aol.com
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Key to tank busting in AH is angle of attack. Essentially the steeper your dive, obviously aim point is the turret, the more success you will have. Hurri IIC will pop a Pnzer's turret very efficiently with steep dive and will not be vunerable to the pintle gun in the dive. At least that has been my experience. Also practice shooting rockets, the more you shoot the better your accuracy--after a couple of well placed rockets most Pnzer's buckle. BTW, the rockets found on LW planes are sticktly Air to Air and will not effect tanks--not sure about soft targets.
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Il2 hands down. Get 8 or 9 kills using cannon alone easily. I learned by watching the best (OverBkil) in action!
I come in slightly above directly to a panzers 9 o clock position (pintle gun cant shoot there) and pop a few cannon rounds into the turret, you take the turret out and any sensible person will ditch, giving you the kill.
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Furball, i've had a few that keep on cahrging like it never happened :p I've also had a few that refuse to die and try to joust with me, always turning straight for me :p
Then i break out the RS182s ;)
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Originally posted by Furball
Il2 hands down. Get 8 or 9 kills using cannon alone easily. I learned by watching the best (OverBkil) in action!
I come in slightly above directly to a panzers 9 o clock position (pintle gun cant shoot there) and pop a few cannon rounds into the turret, you take the turret out and any sensible person will ditch, giving you the kill.
That only works if you're coming in on the 9 o'clock position relative to the turret, Furball; you come in from 9 o'clock relative to the tank, and the tank driver's got his turret turned to his 9 o'clock or 3 o'clock position, then you're nicely in his arc of fire for the pintle gun.
When I'm in a tank and I see someone in an aircraft start rolling in on me, unless I'm already engaged with other GVs I'll spin my turret to make sure I've got arc-of-fire on the aircraft with my pintle gun. It may not make a difference, but there's always the Golden BB...
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Originally posted by SLO
and never forget...its not WHAT you attack with....but HOW you attack vehicles.....
So true.
Any plane w/o bombs or rocks will loose a fight with a tank if the tank driver knows how to defend against a guns only air attack when the pilot doesn't attack from a high enough angle.
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depends on the tanker. some guys die with one rocket and others will never die unless you damage them and they finally get bored and bail. they're called cheaters.
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Originally posted by Shiva
That only works if you're coming in on the 9 o'clock position relative to the turret, Furball; you come in from 9 o'clock relative to the tank, and the tank driver's got his turret turned to his 9 o'clock or 3 o'clock position, then you're nicely in his arc of fire for the pintle gun.
obviously shiva. The pintle gun is connected to the turret and not the chassis. Sorry, i thought people would be smart enough to realise. Maybe i should have made things more clear by using underlining. :rolleyes:
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lol[/i]
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survivability of il2 seems not to good though,you dont see alot
of big il2 landed kills. Its no big deel to up in a 38 and kill more then 8 gvs and land em. I was poke,n around in my tour 40 stats
and here is my p38 vs gv results
8 -1 tiger
189-9 panzer
54-4 m3
30-7m8
56-36 osty
50-9 m16
thats 387 kills to 66 deaths in p38 :)
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Originally posted by SLO
Wimps....
best is Hurri 2C......
even spit 9 does pretty good....2 250's and 1 500...plus a pretty good punch with that ammo(20mm and .50cal)
but me i prefer hurri 2c.....
and never forget...its not WHAT you attack with....but HOW you attack vehicles.....
Yes sir, the Hurri IIC is outstanding against softer GVs. I bumped off 7 LVTs the other day, and still landed with 40 rounds remaining. Those four Hispanos can easily kill an M16 or M3 1.6k out, with little risk, largely because the GV driver didn't expect you to even fire at that range, much less trash his vehicle. Same goes for PTs.
My regards,
Widewing
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I like the typhoon best. With 2 1k bombs it will still climb decently at 300 IAS. Come in at a steep angle on panzers and they are always toast. The really nice thing is that against the AA vehicles, you don't have to get particularly close (less than 700 yards). Those hispanos can reach out and touch the turret of anything from the right angle. I was killing 6-7 GVs a sortie with one just the other day... and that's without much practice in it.
MiniD
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Landed an 8 kill IL2 sortie.. Very fun, mostly from just disabling panzers with cannon and moving on.. then used those uber 7.9mms to kill M3s and M8s. Then i bingoed for fuel. :)
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Originally posted by Zanth
*SNIP*
The 110G2 is also very good with the 30mm option. It's not as armored as the IL2, but the bad guys have a lot harder time hitting a 110.
*SNIP*
The 110 is actually a bigger target from the front, not counting the tail surface. Plus it's extremely frail to .50s, in my experience.
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Best tank killer? There's only 1 real tank killer in game, IL-2!
I use the same method as Furball, but attacks from above to panzer's 12 o clock work very well too: aim front of vehicle where the driver is, short burst starting from 400 yards and BOOM!!! Idea is to hit small area between turret and front armour, that gives u fast kill.
My tour 42 (not finished yet) IL-2 stats:
Tiger 3 - 1
Panzer 100 - 0
M3 27 - 0
M8 28 - 0
M16 36 - 2
Ostwind 26 - 8
Oh, and thank you for your nice words Rod & Furball :)
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lol just use 50 cals they are still tank killers even though its been shown they werent much good at the job in RL. Theold 'i skipped the 50 cals off the floor and they bounced or skipped under the tank for the kill' is probably actually true but it was in no way to PENETRATE the armour.
The problem with German tanks was they tended to LEAK fuel a lot. Mostly on the underside of the tank.Also as the war came to a close the quality of German Armour became degraded due to a lack of additives used to make stronger steels and less brittle armour.
Apparently some tanks had really poor, quite brittle armour in the last years and the best place was the underside where the armour was sometimes left really thin to save on materials.
What i suspect most of those pilots did was fire incindaries under the tank and this could cattch the tank on fire. Or if the crew were stupid enough to leave under floor escape hatches open for ventilation the bullets maybe made their way into the tank.
Once a fire starts a crew would abandon a tank.They wouldnt try to put out the fire whilst planes are rocketing them so this could disable a tank easily.
Most of the abandoned tanks that were not totally destroyed were later recovered and rebuilt by special teams of engineers. both sides had them.The problem in AH is we have tanks which are much too weak against small caliber fire and seemingly pretty good vrs larger calibres which in reality were found better for the job.
We should have the 37mm on the yak or the 40mm on the hurri or the 27mm? on IL2 be affective against armour as we could assume these gun would be loaded as AP rounds for this very job.
50 cals were loaded with HE AP and incindaries and and so should reflect as a less suited weapon for armour busting, its not though in AH however, with their exceedingly high range:
50 calls can hit a target at 1.3k
30mm can hit a target at 800 yards but not further
13mm can hit @1100 yards but not further
its a longer distance you can fire from.
so the guns are easier to aim and hardly any recoil or movement of nose as you fire unlike the large calibers, even though the ammo was not as hard hitting in RL in AH it seems to accumilate its hits rather than treat each shot but im not sure about this,( seems to be) and you have FAR more ammo in your 50's.
why bother with the risk of a heavy IL2 or Yak T when you can take a spit and pop tanks like a needle popping balloons.
GV DM needs the most work in AH i think. I even shot a shell right through a panzer at 50 yards! went between the turret and the main body but exploded some yards behind it! theres holes in their model!
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Typhoon with the 2x1000lb bombs, without a doubt.
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:rolleyes: P51, Spitfire, Typhoon if you wanna get rid of the pesky GVs and go to furball straight after, but the IL2 definitely has the best mix of ord and cannons for killing and disabling Gvs.
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I'm amazed the tiffie aint used more for gv bustin, for me its the only choice. I can take out 2xgvs in 1 pass if they are only a couple of hundred yards apart, by dropping on bomb on each (line up and delay the pickle a fraction of a sec). My usual method is a 45degree dive to the target. Aim point is the very lowest point on the gunsight, release 2k above tgt and its ded everytime, against flaks i usually do a 90degree dive, aim point dead center, corkscrewing down slightly so the beggers have no chance to hit ya with those 37mm! I love it when gvs flock together, 1 well placed drop right in the middle causes no end of upset for em:)