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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Cherlie on July 22, 2003, 05:19:08 PM

Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Cherlie on July 22, 2003, 05:19:08 PM
over 200 men, 5 combat choppers, LAV's with TOW missles even a A10!!, 6 hour "Fierce" firefight and that is to ascertain 2 brothers, a body guard and a teenaged boy.

Explain this logic to me.

200 men and it takes 6 hours?

I'm not making fun, I just don't undertand it, the LAPD could have done a better job with quicker the time.

CB
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: SOB on July 22, 2003, 05:22:00 PM
I dunno...why don't you ask the guys who were there fighting?


SOB
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: midnight Target on July 22, 2003, 05:22:29 PM
Protecting surrounding innocents.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Dowding on July 22, 2003, 05:23:14 PM
They should have used the SAS. Andy McNab could have done it armed with just a pen-knife and visciously sharp piece of mango (unripe of course).
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Cherlie on July 22, 2003, 05:25:58 PM
AHH MT, that would explain it then, thanks

CB
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: SOB on July 22, 2003, 05:26:01 PM
LOL
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Steve on July 22, 2003, 05:26:17 PM
Geez what a stupid thread. How were the U.S. forces to know the exact opposition?  I'd rather have them use overwhelimg force and suffer 0 casualties than to storm the house with small arms only and suffer KIA's.    I hope this thread is a troll Cherlie, lest you be catagorized as a fool.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: anonymous on July 22, 2003, 05:28:46 PM
could be several things. my best professional guess is that if they were reacting to spur of them moment intel they didnt want to take the time to recon the area or the security protecting the target because they were afraid the targets would slip away before to long. so when in doubt send enough assets that you can handle any conceivable response from the bad guys. send your snatch team alone and a force of twenty bodyguards is guranteed to take one or two of your operators out unless you get really lucky. send a snatch team with twenty rangers and twenty bodyguards might be able to hold off the assault long enough for the targets to get away. if you have the assets to overwhelm any possible level of security guarding the target and to totally isolate the area as well so just in case one of your targets slips thru the gauntlet he still has two or three more to evade then why not send them? if you had two hundred to commit and only commited half that if you lost anyone or some important target got away youd feel like an idiot after the fact.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Yeager on July 22, 2003, 05:29:51 PM
I jsut dont understan why the u.s. thinks they can juts kills people for no good reason.  And the teenager who was them killed was just a boy.  Whys doe it takes 2000 soldiers to kiill a teenage boy.  I jsut don tunderstan dthis logic.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: anonymous on July 22, 2003, 05:32:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
They should have used the SAS. Andy McNab could have done it armed with just a pen-knife and visciously sharp piece of mango (unripe of course).


even tho 'Andy' gets a little out of hand he was a bmf in his day according to his coworkers. and even tho his books get kind of crazy from what i hear theres more than a couple of sas and sbs operators that id not be eager to piss off if they had that pen knife and mango. 'throw the mango at the eyes and close with the pen knife' maybe? :)
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Dowding on July 22, 2003, 05:41:07 PM
I'd say that getting into the SAS or SBS means you are guaranteed to be a bit 'handy' in a scrap. Mango or no mango. ;)
Title: Re: U.S please explain to me
Post by: MrLars on July 22, 2003, 05:41:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Cherlie
over 200 men, 5 combat choppers, LAV's with TOW missles even a A10!!, 6 hour "Fierce" firefight and that is to ascertain 2 brothers, a body guard and a teenaged boy.



These are favorable odds, the best way to fight IMO.

OTOH, nothing was said about the defensive perimiter that was/should have been in place, plus there were reports of tunnels....a few claymores and some creative defensive thinking could hold off a force, for a time, as formidable as this one was easily.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: john9001 on July 22, 2003, 06:05:35 PM
hah, bruce willis could have captured the place single handed, and not killed anybody , well ok , maybe kill some.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Furious on July 22, 2003, 06:12:18 PM
Bunch of gangbangers.  Bet the HO'd and rammed 'em too.
Title: Re: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Sixpence on July 22, 2003, 06:12:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Cherlie
I'm not making fun, I just don't undertand it, the LAPD could have done a better job with quicker the time.

CB


dunno, did you see the hollywood shootout?
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: ra on July 22, 2003, 06:30:28 PM
Janet Reno could have fried them in 1 hour.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Scootter on July 22, 2003, 07:09:27 PM
In reply to your question, Because you don't fight a war fair you fight to win and there was no way of knowing what the residence would be. Did you really ask that question ?

When an ambulance is called to your house do you want them over equipped and prepared for anything or should they just bring the band aids.

And your bait stinks get a new piece
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Toad on July 22, 2003, 07:17:15 PM
Explain?


Bad Guys 0

Good Guys 4



A total shutout. Game/set/match.

I really LIKE it when none of the Good Guys gets hurt.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: ygsmilo on July 22, 2003, 09:34:36 PM
Don't ask me,

I would have called an arc light.

Nothing like a B 52 strike to get folks attention.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: GRUNHERZ on July 22, 2003, 09:35:48 PM
Yeager youre trolling? I hope you are....
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Scootter on July 22, 2003, 09:37:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yeager youre trolling? I hope you are....


Yea he's trolling:D

shhhh don't tell anyone
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: crowMAW on July 22, 2003, 10:22:31 PM
I don't believe there has been an announcement as to the number of people in the house at the time.  It is likely that there were more than just those four who have been confirmed as killed.  One report I've seen says that an intial squad of soldiers went to the house and asked permission to search, but were denied by the occupants.  Well, I'm pretty sure that Uday, Qusay nor Saddam's grandson opened the door when those first soldiers knocked.  And I would be surprised to learn that the body guard left his principal's side to go answer the door.  So that leds me to speculate that more than 4 people were in the house.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: JBA on July 22, 2003, 10:59:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Scootter

When an ambulance is called to your house do you want them over equipped and prepared for anything or should they just bring the band aids.


ROFLMAO:D
Title: Re: Re: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Sandman on July 23, 2003, 12:19:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MrLars
These are favorable odds, the best way to fight IMO.

OTOH, nothing was said about the defensive perimiter that was/should have been in place, plus there were reports of tunnels....a few claymores and some creative defensive thinking could hold off a force, for a time, as formidable as this one was easily.


You forgot WMD... :)
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: anonymous on July 23, 2003, 01:31:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
I'd say that getting into the SAS or SBS means you are guaranteed to be a bit 'handy' in a scrap. Mango or no mango. ;)


yah you brits always needing that mango as a crutch. real american operators dont need no stinkin mangos. and the sas troopers are classy but they forever live in the shadow of their gill equipped brothers. such is their lot in life. me? biased? hell no. :) also it appears that they tried to enter the house for a search, were told 'no, thank you, we dont want any free searches today' so they came back and did a quick recon with some cool gadgetry and they liked what they saw so in they went.
Title: Re: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 23, 2003, 01:34:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Cherlie
over 200 men, 5 combat choppers, LAV's with TOW missles even a A10!!, 6 hour "Fierce" firefight and that is to ascertain 2 brothers, a body guard and a teenaged boy.

Explain this logic to me.

200 men and it takes 6 hours?

I'm not making fun, I just don't undertand it, the LAPD could have done a better job with quicker the time.

CB



Because they are soldiers and not cops and soldiers are trained to bring over whelming fire power on the enemy in order to squash resistance.  And there was no A-10 involved, just helicopter gunships, a few armored vehicles and infantry.


Ack-Ack
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Cherlie on July 23, 2003, 02:38:44 AM
Quote
And there was no A-10 involved, just helicopter gunships, a few armored vehicles and infantry.


Hey I heard on cnn, A10.

and if it was such a bad bait? why ya bite? ;)

CB
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: john9001 on July 23, 2003, 10:45:43 AM
the US did not know how many people were in the house or what they were armed with, so the US brought enough fire power to handle anything.

if the US had used less firepower and americans were killed and wounded, you would say,"stupid americans , why didn't they bring more", well they did bring more and now you say "why did the americans need so much firepower", it must be easy to second guess when you don't have to make the decisions.

as a former marine , there is no such thing as "too much firepower"
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Monk on July 23, 2003, 11:22:43 AM
Never bring a knife to a gunfight.

Great leadership really, of course how would you know.
Title: Re: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Mini D on July 23, 2003, 01:10:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Cherlie
over 200 men, 5 combat choppers, LAV's with TOW missles even a A10!!, 6 hour "Fierce" firefight and that is to ascertain 2 brothers, a body guard and a teenaged boy.

Explain this logic to me.

200 men and it takes 6 hours?

I'm not making fun, I just don't undertand it, the LAPD could have done a better job with quicker the time.
You've never seen the movie "Blackhawk Down"?

You might not remember it, but I'm pretty sure the U.S. military does.

MiniD
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Zippatuh on July 23, 2003, 01:24:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
Bunch of gangbangers.  Bet the HO'd and rammed 'em too.


LOL – I was thinking this as well.

They aren’t in it for the “good fight”.  It’s all about winning with as few casualties as possible.  Applying AH MA logic to real world situations isn’t a good glass to filter through ;).
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: Puke on July 23, 2003, 01:48:42 PM
Quote
Explain this logic to me.  -Cherlie


Because you weren't available.
Title: U.S please explain to me
Post by: midnight Target on July 23, 2003, 01:50:32 PM
They tried to call them out peacefully with bullhorns. I read a transcript of the whole thing.. went something like this:

- Uday, Qusay, omecay outay ithway uoryay andshay upyay.


 :D