Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on July 23, 2003, 05:10:41 PM
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Had a multiple death shooting at City Hall...New York. :(
So much for gun control laws,eh?
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So... the solution to this sort of thing is to allow more guns?
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Why not Sandman? What if several of the people there had legal guns and CCWs? Maybe it would have ended in another way.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Why not Sandman? What if several of the people there had legal guns and CCWs? Maybe it would have ended in another way.
That could be more stray bullets and more dead people.
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well hey MN just had gun control laws change, can now carry a concieled weapon, and hasnt been a shooting yet. just alot of signs saying no firearms allowed on property :)
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That true six, but there could be a dead bad guy and no other dead as well. No way to tell one way another but, both are possible.
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Did you read the story? There is no way they could have stopped him once he was in, he went in with the person he shot and was right beside him. He was allowed to get in w/o going through the metal detector because he was with the person he shot. What I wonder is why he waited to go in to shoot him. Everyone in the place could have had a gun, but they couldn't have stopped him.
The solution would be to make everyone go through the detectors, then it wouldn't have happened.
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I remember seeing a show about the Luby's shooting a few years after it happened. Several people there had guns in their cars, because it was illegal to carry them on their persons :mad: That could have / should have ended with one or two dead instead of what 26? or was it 24?
Wasn't the shooter in NYC a city councel member?
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Six
Your right, they never should have let him through the detectors...
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Yep..a plain clothes legally gun carrying undercover guy shot him. All is as it should be.
I'm sure glad there wasn't a bunch of wingnuts reaching for their guns and blasting away on this one.
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It's a shame it takes something like this to change the way things are done.
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Caesar was killed with knives, but Rome did not have metal detectors back then.
instead of just crying "GUNS GUNS GUNS" maybe you should look at why he wanted to kill the other person. just because someone has a gun, the gun doesn't turn them into a killer, (magic guns)
people have been killed by hammers, baseball bats,ropes, cement blocks,knives,water, hands,etc.
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So we should allow guns in city hall?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Did you read the story? There is no way they could have stopped him once he was in, he went in with the person he shot and was right beside him. He was allowed to get in w/o going through the metal detector because he was with the person he shot. What I wonder is why he waited to go in to shoot him. Everyone in the place could have had a gun, but they couldn't have stopped him.
The solution would be to make everyone go through the detectors, then it wouldn't have happened.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Sixpence
So we should allow guns in city hall?
well , that depends, if the gun has a clean record and has passed a background check, i don't see why the gun should not go to city hall. you understand, we only want law abiding guns. if the gun is a felon , it should not be allowed in.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
:rolleyes:
lol, what was that for?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
It's a shame it takes something like this to change the way things are done.
The real shame is that people have the misguided notion that security is a 100% fix.
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What I wonder is why he waited to go in to shoot him.
maybe he was waiting for an environment where he was likely the only one with a gun.
the metal detectors just guarenteed most others where unarmed. kinda like gun control laws- the criminals ignore the laws (they are criminals after all) the laws just make it much more likely that the victim is unarmed.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
lol, what was that for?
I was wondering the same. The culprit was immediately shot and killed by an armed officer after committing his deed. I don't see how arming everybody there would have changed the outcome.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Maybe if the guy knew a bunch of citizens were packing, he would have never tried it in the first place. Deturance is prevention.
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That would be a terrifying situation. I believe if several of the patrons had a gun, it may have been possible for one of them to kill the madman. It would take nerves of steel to do it, and they could be killed as well.
Les
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Why not Sandman? What if several of the people there had legal guns and CCWs? Maybe it would have ended in another way.
LOL!
I was going to post exactly what you did... except meant as a JOKE! :) Holy smokes...
looks like you weren't alone with that thought by a long shot... Forgot where I was for a second, heh.
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You take away gun's and people will just come up with new ways to kill each other.
Been going on since the dawn of time.
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lisa needs braces.
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It can happen anywere and it's not linked with gun reglementation : http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/france/03/27/shooting.main/?related
And I think we have toughest gun control laws than NY.
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I think he still would be dead if he had an gun on him, and all the persons around them also had guns...
An gun dont make you Lucky Luke...
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A driver was stopped for speeding - 40mph in a 30mph area. Just goes to show that speed limits don't work. Abolish all speed limts!!
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Beet1e, I know I got you upset mate. But I wasn't talking about Great Britain when I mentioned Europeans not knowing about freedom. Guess it's my stupidity when it comes to Europe.:D
Still don't agree with you about your tactics. It's my belief, it's no ones' business what goes on in America, if you're not a citizen. Perhaps I am wrong in thinking this way, but it's the way I was brought up.
I fear for your country, much the same way I fear for mine. You know, my family is from Lincolnshire, England. The family house has been there for 700 years. Built out of sod and earth.
Anyway, I would like to take this opportunity to make ammends with you, because I can't sleep at night thinking I pissed off a fellow Brit. Let's be friends, please.:)
Les
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Wait a minute, I read that both these guys were gun owners, and both are(were) democrats....what gives? I thought democratic politicians for the most part were anti-gun? :confused:
Oh, never mind, double standards again. S.O.S.
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Originally posted by Leslie
It's my belief, it's no ones' business what goes on in America, if you're not a citizen. Perhaps I am wrong in thinking this way, but it's the way I was brought up.
Leslie,
America, like it or not, is the most powerful country in the world. It's influence is spreading rapidily and makes many non-Americans very nervous as a result. Look at my little island. If we were to gain our independence from the UK we would essentially become an American colony. All facets of American "culture" and way of life will be thrust upon us, simply because we are so small and insignificant.
So, it matters a great deal to me, and to millions of others worldwide, what happens in America. It is said on this island for example that if the American economy catches a "cold" my country immediately contracts "pnemonia".
Is it still none of my business?
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It's my belief, it's no ones' business what goes on in America, if you're not a citizen. Perhaps I am wrong in thinking this way, but it's the way I was brought up.
So was the war in Iraq about WMD or about freeing the Iraqi people according to you? it certainly cant be the latter according to your quote above...
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Now if the SOB would believe in God, our work would be done.:)
Les
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Originally posted by Maniac
So was the war in Iraq about WMD or about freeing the Iraqi people according to you? it certainly cant be the latter according to your quote above...
I'll answer that Maniac, because I like you. IMO, the war in Iraq was to destroy Saddam Hussein, and for no other purpose. I agree with that purpose.
Les
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Originally posted by Leslie
I'll answer that Maniac, because I like you.
So what...you don't like me?
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Originally posted by Curval
Leslie,
America, like it or not, is the most powerful country in the world. It's influence is spreading rapidily and makes many non-Americans very nervous as a result. Look at my little island. If we were to gain our independence from the UK we would essentially become an American colony. All facets of American "culture" and way of life will be thrust upon us, simply because we are so small and insignificant.
So, it matters a great deal to me, and to millions of others worldwide, what happens in America. It is said on this island for example that if the American economy catches a "cold" my country immediately contracts "pnemonia".
Is it still none of my business?
Yes, it's your business Curval. I don't know anything about Bermuda, except what you say about it. Sounds like a neat place, except for the sickness. What good would it do the US? Should we send bio teams there to look into the problem? Is Bermuda a testing ground for bio weapons by terrorists?
Les
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Just knowing that a certain percentage of the population will be carrying concealed weapons makes people more polite.
"crazy" shooters don't shoot up police stations or shooting ranges as a rule.. they look for places where the sheep are not allowed to defend themselves.
lazs
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Originally posted by Curval
It is said on this island for example that if the American economy catches a "cold" my country immediately contracts "pnemonia".
The version I've heard is "When America sneezes, we catch the cold".
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yup....I can just imagine everyone in New York city carryin a gun:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Curval
Leslie,
America, like it or not, is the most powerful country in the world. It's influence is spreading rapidily and makes many non-Americans very nervous as a result. Look at my little island. If we were to gain our independence from the UK we would essentially become an American colony. All facets of American "culture" and way of life will be thrust upon us, simply because we are so small and insignificant.
So, it matters a great deal to me, and to millions of others worldwide, what happens in America. It is said on this island for example that if the American economy catches a "cold" my country immediately contracts "pnemonia".
Is it still none of my business?
You'll never solve the gun problem in the States it's embedded in their culture from the frontier days of law and disorder with the biggest gun rules scenario. It's like divorce their are no winners or lossers just degrees of survival
That said it can be a big problem for others in Vancouver 80% of handguns used in crimes came from the US, these guns can usually be traced back to the original few specific dealers. Oddly enough the Canadian authorities have notified for sometime now the gun companies about these dealers yet the manufacturers still allow these dealers to purchase guns from them.
It's like the Tobacco industry.
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even if there were very few restrictions for concealed carry... "everyone" would not be carrying guns.
lazs
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torque... I would like to see the article or proof that there are a couple of gun dealers in the states that are selling guns to canadians and that no one is doing anything about it.
Seems that if a gun dealer sells 75% of all the handguns bought in Washington say... that in vancouver... a large percentage of the guns used over there would have come from his store originaly.
lazs
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Originally posted by Leslie
Yes, it's your business Curval. I don't know anything about Bermuda, except what you say about it. Sounds like a neat place, except for the sickness. What good would it do the US? Should we send bio teams there to look into the problem? Is Bermuda a testing ground for bio weapons by terrorists?
Les, I'm just responding to your assertion that it is none of anyone's business what happens in America, that is all.
lol...re sickness. Maybe that would help. I'd be happy to have them scan my house in case some crazy group of irate tourists are trying to kill all of us because they were unhappy with the Lobster Thermador at the hotel.
Torque...trying to change these guys opinions about gun laws is a hopeless cause. I have been very quiet on that subject recently.
Nash...where did you hear that version. ;) It was probably me...I just chaged it today for effect. :)
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Would post a comment but have to go and send a grovelling thank you note to the Queen for allowing me to live here - the WWW sure makes one realise what one is missing out on by not living in the USA.
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Originally posted by Curval
the Lobster Thermador at the hotel.
You mean the lobster "Therminator" or the lobster "Thermidor" ? ;)
sorry it jumped to my eyes :p
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Originally posted by straffo
You mean the lobster "Therminator" or the lobster "Thermidor" ? ;)
sorry it jumped to my eyes :p
The lobster dish that has all the lobster diced up and mixed with a mushroom cream sauce and then put back into the shell and baked with lots of cheese on top.
I guess that is Thermidor.
Stop correcting my English Straffo...:p ...and all this lobster talk is making me hungry.
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yep it's Thermidor :) ,in my recipe I don't use Mushroom but a simple "béchamelle" (or a "roux" if you prefer) + cheese + some "fines herbes" +some mustard + chalots
But prepared "à l'Americaine" or "Armoricaine" is pretty fine too :)
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Originally posted by Curval
Nash...where did you hear that version. ;) It was probably me...I just chaged it today for effect. :)
That saying is older than the hills. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Wait a minute, I read that both these guys were gun owners, and both are(were) democrats....what gives? I thought democratic politicians for the most part were anti-gun? :confused:
Oh, never mind, double standards again. S.O.S.
Wouldn't the liberal thought to be everyone to have a gun?
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Would post a comment but have to go and send a grovelling thank you note to the Queen for allowing me to live here - the WWW sure makes one realise what one is missing out on by not living in the USA.
No worries, send that note, we don't WANT you over here anyway. ;)
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..and Curval is just bitter because he's a lousy shot...why, I'm willing to bet if you had done excellent that day on the range, you'd probably have a "hot" gun in Bermuda locked up in a cabinet...shooting as a sport is addictive! ;)
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Originally posted by john9001
well , that depends, if the gun has a clean record and has passed a background check, i don't see why the gun should not go to city hall. you understand, we only want law abiding guns. if the gun is a felon , it should not be allowed in.
Well, if a non felon goes in with a gun and shoots someone, that makes him a non felon?
Here at Boston city hall, everyone goes through the metal detector, it doesn't matter who you are or who you know. Why this person was allowed to avoid the metal detector is beyond me.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
..and Curval is just bitter because he's a lousy shot...why, I'm willing to bet if you had done excellent that day on the range, you'd probably have a "hot" gun in Bermuda locked up in a cabinet...shooting as a sport is addictive! ;)
I may be a lousy shot with a hand-gun, but gimme a GPMG and I'd suggest you run and hide.
I'd never keep an illegal gun here dude...I think the minimum is 20 years behind bars for that. I'm way too small and white to go to jail...I'd be the flavour of the month upon arrival and be sold to the bullqueers for a few cigarettes afterwards.
;)
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ROTFLOL!
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Curval - is there much HIV in Bermuda jails? I hear that's a problem in the US. In which case the sentence would equate to Death by Lethal Injection.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Curval - is there much HIV in Bermuda jails? I hear that's a problem in the US. In which case the sentence would equate to Death by Lethal Injection.
lol...yes, it is rampant in the jail here. Mostly IV drug users.
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Originally posted by medicboy
Maybe if the guy knew a bunch of citizens were packing, he would have never tried it in the first place. Deturance is prevention.
You honestly believe that this guy who carried a gun into City Hall -- a guy who passed through a security checkpoint full of armed guards but who didn't pass through the magnometer (according to reports I've read) -- would have been deterred by the prospect of more people with guns? Clearly he had one thing on his mind, and his own life was a secondary consideration.
I'm frankly astonished that someone would be dense enough to turn this into a guns or anti-guns debate when it's clearly a security issue. It would have taken 10 seconds for the guy to pass through the metal detector, and if he had none of this would have happened.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by lazs2
torque... I would like to see the article or proof that there are a couple of gun dealers in the states that are selling guns to canadians and that no one is doing anything about it.
Seems that if a gun dealer sells 75% of all the handguns bought in Washington say... that in vancouver... a large percentage of the guns used over there would have come from his store originaly.
lazs
This is such old news i'm surprised you are unaware, as you can see the ATF has known about this for years.
http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/030218_guns/blackmarket.html
Oddly enough though Cellucci comes up and makes alot of noise about the flow of smuggled cannabis south but not a peep about the flow of smuggled metal north.
I've worked enough in the states to understand and i'm not trying to change anyones opinion, the industry should be more accountable for it's actions IMO.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I'm frankly astonished.....
-- Todd/Leviathn
I'm not astonished that Dem's put themselves (and their Dem-controlled City Counsil) "above" such normal procedures for common folk such as waiting in line for a metal detector. Classical Limosine Liberals, only this time it turned deadly.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm not astonished that Dem's put themselves (and their Dem-controlled City Counsil) "above" such normal procedures for common folk such as waiting in line for a metal detector. Classical Limosine Liberals, only this time it turned deadly.
LOL. The mayor goes through the same security measures... you know, the Republican mayor? If anything, a bureaucrat and not a politician probably had the final say on security measures. I don't recall Bloomberg screaming bloody murder about changing security measures before this happened.
Plus you'll note that earlier in this thread someone stated that everyone in Boston passes through metal detectors before entering City Hall, including the mayor and council members. I'm pretty sure they're a bunch of Democratic no-do gooders too, and yet they seemed to show more common sense.
Here's a thought... this isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. It's not even a political issue. It's a security issue brought about by someone's amazing lack of foresight and some really nasty luck. It probably stems from a tradition in NYC of showing council members and their guests a degree of deference that, ultimately, appears unwarranted given the possible consequences.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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i had to enter a federal building once, and i had to go through the detector,but people who worked there (i think) just flashed a ID and walked around the detector.
BTW , the guards were very polite.
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Originally posted by john9001
i had to enter a federal building once, and i had to go through the detector,but people who worked there (i think) just flashed a ID and walked around the detector.
BTW , the guards were very polite.
Before September 11th, it was the same way with the House and Senate office buildings (from which you could gain access to the Capitol). I was just remarking to my wife how it has probably changed since those heady days of the post cold war era.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
No worries, send that note, we don't WANT you over here anyway. ;)
Gosh I can't tell you just how upsetting that piece of news is.....insert little smiley faces and fake shallow politeness here - throw in a couple of "Sir's" too.
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Damn, DMF, you're like the biggest fish in the pond that never learns, just keeps biting. :) Thks!
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Damn, DMF, you're like the biggest fish in the pond that never learns, just keeps biting. :) Thks!
Now, now, Rip. I wouldn't respond to you if I didn't think that some of the people here honestly agreed with what you stated, troll or not.
Speaking of, I wonder what Cabby is up to these days.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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torque... the article says that RSM (a distributor) sold 1000 handguns to a licennced dealer in 1992. 900 of those guns ended up in Canada. It does not say that the dealer still has a licence or that the distributor has ever sold any dealer guns knowing that they would end up on the black market.
What is it that you are asking the distributor to do?
lazs
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As soon as the media found out the shooter was a Gay, Black, fashion model this story went off their radar like a Stealth Fighter.
I feel sorry for any victim of violence, but this death had as much to do with guns as arson has to matches.
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Check this thread out.
apparently the BG was not licensed but the good guy was, and was armed at time of the shooting.
He did'nt get a chance to pull it.
Don't see That in the news tho, do ya !
http://
http://www.packing.org/talk/thread.jsp/13933
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lol i dont even read this stuff anymore..some people dum..some peoople not..you decidre..
BiGB is a big fan/collectror of firearms and is a member of the NRA
i just wanted to post to frog.....
"DENTAL Plan"
free keg of beer!!!