Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on July 24, 2003, 12:34:22 PM

Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Eagler on July 24, 2003, 12:34:22 PM
give them to the arabic stations to air

to air them on US news networks is wrong. I don't think america needs to see to believe. what the diff for us to air these and the arabs to air the shots of the dead gis we had a fit about? sends a wrong message to the media and the public...
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Sandman on July 24, 2003, 12:37:09 PM
The big difference is that MSNBC and CNN don't make any money that way.

:D
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: WestyAH on July 24, 2003, 12:46:10 PM
The Army and US government aren't airing them. The private, profit bound corporations that is "tv news" are.

 Even if the US and government had given the pix to the Arab news first and tried to delay the western media the western media would have found someone to buy them from within minutes and the pix would still have been shown without delay.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: CptTrips on July 24, 2003, 12:51:45 PM
Nobody has to show them that doesn't want to.

Nobody has to look at them that doesn't want to.

Are you some kindof liberal or something? :cool:

Wab
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: DoctorYO on July 24, 2003, 12:55:37 PM
What grinds me is all the hoopla over showing dead americans as propaganda then doing the exact same freaking (insert explative) thing..

How do we expect for the arab world to trust us if we blatantly renig on our own policies..

Our  intelligence services lie to even americans.  How can we expect our  conquered foes to have any respect for our word when we only keep it when it serves us best...

As long as we continue this policy of deceit torward Iraq, and more importantly the american public we have no credibility whatsoever on a global scale except military might, and that is already taxed and stretched thin.....

My 2 cents..


DoctorYo
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Saurdaukar on July 24, 2003, 01:19:06 PM
If they didnt show them, people would be up in arms for 'proof' from Bush that they were dead.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Gunthr on July 24, 2003, 01:19:09 PM
I haven't seen these photos portrayed in quite the manner we have seen graphic videos of say, Daniel Pearl getting his throat slit, which was gleefully posted all over the internet by Muslim extremists.

The photos I've seen of Uday and Qusay are presented as ID photos. Nothing more. It will save lives. The sooner Iraqis believe it, the better off we will be. I don't think we can release ID photos like this to Al-Jazeera and expect them not to get into American media...
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: miko2d on July 24, 2003, 01:20:19 PM
Eagler: to air them on US news networks is wrong. sends a wrong message to the media and the public...

 It sends exactly the right message - that we are a bunch of whiny lying hyppocrites.

 miko
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Yeager on July 24, 2003, 01:21:54 PM
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and Ye shall be saved.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: crowMAW on July 24, 2003, 01:25:14 PM
Releasing the photos was necessary for the Iraqi people to see proof.  We cannot expect every society to have the same cultural taboos that we do...while the photos are gruesome and unnecessary for us to see, they are on par for the type of stuff that has been shown on Al Jazzera in the past.  

Here is a quote from an Iraqi interpreter who was at the press briefing yesterday when told that the photos would not be released:

"...we are all hanging on the edge of our seats waiting for one single picture, definitive proof. It is so easy, all it takes is to show us the friggin’ corpses...All I care about is knowing, seeing, being 100% doubt free and that press conference proved nothing. An Iraqi journalist stopped me at the door of that hall and asked me whether I am American media (this happens from hanging around NY Times people too much), I told him I wasn’t but I could put him in touch, he said he was a journalist with IMN (Iraqi Media Network, the coalition sponsored media tool) he said that he wanted to make sure that the American journalists understand that Iraqis have huge doubts..."

I'd bet that sentiment is why the decision was reversed and the photos released today.

It would not have mattered which news organization was given the photos...they would have all gotten them in the end.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Dowding on July 24, 2003, 01:26:04 PM
I think it is hypocritical, but not that big a deal.

Quote
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and Ye shall be saved.


Are you randomly looking for an appropriate discussion to insert that statement into, in the hope of contributing something?

Guess what? Better keep on looking!
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Yeager on July 24, 2003, 01:30:23 PM
I think dowling is a hypocrit

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it is hypocritical, but not that big a deal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you randomly looking for an appropriate discussion to insert that statement into, in the hope of contributing something?

Guess what? Better keep on looking!
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Ripsnort on July 24, 2003, 01:35:48 PM
Two reasons for showing the photos, maybe 3...

1) Shows the people of Iraq that these baddies are gone! You can relax alittle bit now.(and there's alittle psychological "closure" imbedded in there too)
2) Shows the Ba'ath party leftovers that these guys are gone, you can be paranoid now because YOU may be next
3) Lets the rest of the bad neighbors like Syria and Iran know who's your daddy now. ;)
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Toad on July 24, 2003, 01:36:11 PM
They had to show the photos.

Otherwise the charges of faking the whole thing would be rampant.

In fact, I'll predict that there will soon be claims of "it's not them" or "doctored photos!" and even more graphic photos will be released.

It's the way of things.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Nash on July 24, 2003, 01:36:55 PM
I understand the thinking in showing the pictures. "See? They're dead. Now lets move on."

Still, it's going to be hard to then wag their finger at the showing of dead US servicemen. I mean, on what grounds could they now? There might be a difference, but it's slim and nobody's going to accept the difference if they weren't inclined to.

My question is... They could have sealed off a few city blocks and waited for them to surrender. They gotta eat, right? Might have taken a few weeks, but so what? Because if you want to find WMD, won't these guys know where it is?

Btw Toad - there are already claims of fakery (doctored photos). One guy on CNN said 80% of Iraqis don't believe the pics. If you had these guys alive... then...
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: boxboy28 on July 24, 2003, 01:46:13 PM
is this the dead photos ?
I took this front the front page of the Al Jezeera web page.

Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Toad on July 24, 2003, 01:47:37 PM
Bit of a difference between the photos of a common soldier and the photos of the leadership. Even the Italians took pics of Mussolini hanging like a side of beef.

There's this urge to show the old regime is no more, I guess. Showing a common soldier doesn't relate on that level at all. Are they proving they can manage to kill a few US grunts in combat?

But none of this stuff is ever going to stop, leader or soldier. Welcome to the information age.

Waiting them out? Maybe... but with all the tunnels and secret hideaways we've already found and seen on TV, I can also understand a bit of relutance to wait. What would everyone be saying if we surrounde the place for a week and then went in and found out there's a 2 mile tunnel under the place that gave them a clean getaway with "Suckers!" spray painted on the tunnel entrance? The press would love that one, wouldn't they. Always easy to second guess.

I'd rather have seen them taken alive but I dang sure would rather see them dead than escaped.

Of course, alive they present another problem. After you have drained them of all intelligence, how do you kill them?

Because death is most certainly what they deserved. I can imagine the outcry if we had taken them, drained them and hung them.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: WestyAH on July 24, 2003, 01:48:14 PM
" CNN said 80% of Iraqis don't believe the pics. If you had these guys alive... then..."

 Then it's time to string the bodies up on lamposts with tanks and armoured vehicles guarding them from being stolen.  

 It worked for the Italians with Mussolini did it not?
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Yeager on July 24, 2003, 01:54:12 PM
They were such gentle human beings......

Why didnt we just feed them, or something?  Now the whole world wont like us.  Im bummed out really really, like....bad.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Nash on July 24, 2003, 01:56:07 PM
You shoulda heard the guy. If you strung him up in public, he and the rest like him would come up with some other excuse I'm sure. It's a strange culture.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Modas on July 24, 2003, 01:56:10 PM
I wouldn't believe pics either.....   You can do some amazing things with photoshop  :(
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: gofaster on July 24, 2003, 01:56:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WestyAH
" CNN said 80% of Iraqis don't believe the pics. If you had these guys alive... then..."

 Then it's time to string the bodies up on lamposts with tanks and armoured vehicles guarding them from being stolen.  

 It worked for the Italians with Mussolini did it not?


Didn't work too well for the Romans, however.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Nash on July 24, 2003, 01:57:26 PM
lol what are you going on about Yeager?
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: john9001 on July 24, 2003, 01:58:28 PM
hehe...the talking heads on TV are saying what a bad thing it is to show the dead bodies, wile they are showing the pics.

'look,look at the terrible pictures", oh brother!!
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Sixpence on July 24, 2003, 02:30:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
In fact, I'll predict that there will soon be claims of "it's not them" or "doctored photos!" and even more graphic photos will be released..


And then more denial.So why show them?

We should have passes the buck and gave them to the arab network. They seem to get enjoyment out of it.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Gixer on July 24, 2003, 02:31:16 PM
Why did they have to shoot them in the first place? Thought they would of been far more valuable taken alive.



...-Gixer
-Hells Angels-
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Sixpence on July 24, 2003, 02:33:09 PM
Dead men tell no tales.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: WestyAH on July 24, 2003, 02:36:48 PM
Very true Gofaster.  Nor for the Germans in WWII.   However if the Arab world and the Iraqi people are looking for irrefutable proof that these two are actually dead IMO putting thier bodies on displa (As thier culture seems to rquire) that's different from trying to display executed corpses as a means of frighting the opposition or rebels.

Um....

.... you're not insinuating that the US is a repressor and a conqueror... are you?




AaaaaHUH!!    Why do you hate Amerika!?
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: WestyAH on July 24, 2003, 02:39:59 PM
"Dead men tell no tales."

 That. Less fuss for the public to debate over, no prisoners for terrorists to try hijack or bomb things to get released and I don't think there was room at the Guantanamo Hilton either. And if Saddam is alive the news could possibly push him over the edge and neuter him as a factor behind the resistance goes.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Gixer on July 24, 2003, 02:44:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Dead men tell no tales.



True, but the information they may have would of been usefull and I'm sure the intelligence agencies would liked to of questioned them.

Maybe they knew where Daddy is?

Also given their importance seems strange that they were both in the same place at the same time.

Seems to be alot of unanswered questions about the event, be interesting in coming weeks as more information comes out..



...-Gixer
Title: they didn't know ...
Post by: Eagler on July 24, 2003, 03:12:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
Why did they have to shoot them in the first place? Thought they would of been far more valuable taken alive.



...-Gixer
-Hells Angels-


Troops Didn't Know Brothers Were in Villa  (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A39106-2003Jul24?language=printer)

"As the bodies of Odai, 39, and Qusai, 37, were taken to Baghdad International Airport to be flown out of the country, several hundred people gathered outside the razor wire surrounding their still-smoking hide-out Wednesday, chanting pro-Saddam slogans."This is terrorism! They are killers!" screamed Saad Badr, a 50-year-old taxi driver who was pressed so close to the razor wire that his left toe was bleeding.

"Americans are unbelievers, and Saddam Hussein is a Muslim. This makes me even more angry at the Americans," said 14-year-old Mohammed Qassem, to a chorus of agreement from the crowd."
<- they'd been first to be rounded up, don't see why we put up with this crap. these same ppl would shoot our troops if given half a chance, that makes them the enemy. Some ppl don't know when they have had their arse kicked unless you REALLY kick it..

what do you think would have happened to a bunch of Berliners jumpin around screaming pro nazi crap as the allied troops entered Berlin at the end of ww2?

pc warfare .. gotta love it
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: davidpt40 on July 24, 2003, 03:41:25 PM
Ahhhh! Don't show the bodies of our enemies!  It might make our enemies think they might actually die!
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Eagler on July 24, 2003, 03:52:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
Ahhhh! Don't show the bodies of our enemies!  It might make our enemies think they might actually die!


isn't that 144 virgins between the both of them ???
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Sandman on July 24, 2003, 04:36:44 PM
What a surprise! Rumsfeld is glad. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=2&u=/nm/20030724/ts_nm/iraq_sons_rumsfeld_dc)
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: john9001 on July 24, 2003, 04:48:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
What a surprise! Rumsfeld is glad.


sandman is in morning , two of his heros are dead.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Sandman on July 24, 2003, 04:50:05 PM
I don't know what would give you that idea...



...and it's M-O-U-R-N-I-N-G. :p
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: john9001 on July 24, 2003, 04:59:18 PM
ah kant spel , ah went ta publik skool
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Toad on July 24, 2003, 05:27:55 PM
I'm not sure I believe this but I read somewhere that the Muslim clerics were going to have a conference on this "72 virgins" thing.

After all, these are tough times and there's that supply/demand thing to consider. Back in the old days when it mostly talk about kicking the US's rear end, there were plenty of virgins in stock. However, now that some of these guys have actually tried to walk the walk it seems that there is a pretty severe unanticipated "virgin shortage".

Anyway, I heard that the conference will discuss reducing it to "36 virgins" as a temporary measure. If things get better, it'll eventually go back to 72, but the clerics are thinking it could also go to 18, depending on the situation.

I think the Arab press should, in fairness, be spreading the word around on this and cover the conference in detail.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Raubvogel on July 24, 2003, 10:00:08 PM
(http://www.kodae-arts.com/fdb/raub/test.jpg)
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Toad on July 24, 2003, 10:47:06 PM
Raub, I tried to track that event down and never could verify it as attributable to Pershing. There does appear to be another Colonel that did that to one or two Morros. Even that isn't really documented.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Raubvogel on July 24, 2003, 11:59:34 PM
Hey, don't ruin my good vibe!! :D
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Dowding on July 25, 2003, 12:25:58 AM
What a crock of ****.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Yeager on July 25, 2003, 12:54:51 AM
Dowling, your noWhere near as sharp as you seem to think you are.  In fact, Id say your pretty dull.

:eek:
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: -dead- on July 25, 2003, 01:07:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Dowling, your noWhere near as sharp as you seem to think you are.  In fact, Id say your pretty dull.

:eek:
Hey Mr Jesus saves - why not do the Xian thing and just forgive him, instead of casting stones? :rolleyes:
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Dowding on July 25, 2003, 01:10:13 AM
Coming from somebody with such exceptional language skills, I consider myself suitably chastised.

Let's here some more bible bull****, Chuck!
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: john9001 on July 25, 2003, 01:10:51 AM
i forgive everyone,..... well , except for lazs and his furball fetish
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Toad on July 25, 2003, 08:29:02 AM
Quote
CNN:

Provisional coalition authorities in Iraq allowed what the U.S. says are the bodies of Uday and Qusay Hussein to be videotaped by the media Friday, a coalition spokeswoman said.

The move came a day after grim still photos of the corpses were released.

The videotape is being streamed by CNN.com and will be posted on the Web site shortly.

In an effort to further convince skeptical Iraqis that Saddam Hussein's sons are dead, authorities said they decided to show the bodies to broadcast and print reporters in Baghdad, the spokeswoman said.


That didn't take long.
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Shuckins on July 25, 2003, 09:03:00 AM
Hmm.  So THAT's what dead mass-murderers look like.  

Don't you just LOVE the statement by the protester that blasted the U.S. for killing such GOOD Muslims.  These two dead animals and their father are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Shi'ite Muslims.  I guess the Arab world has been awash in hypocrisy for so long that they can no longer recognize it.  

Shuckins
Title: Disney considering
Post by: Eagler on July 25, 2003, 12:35:31 PM
another remake of "Weekend at Bernies" starring ...
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Yeager on July 25, 2003, 01:28:08 PM
If it wasnt for oil and the reciprocating gas engine, the arab world would still be getting from tent to tent on the backs of camels.  Oh wait.........
Title: Dead Photos - wrong move
Post by: Saurdaukar on July 25, 2003, 02:03:08 PM
Some of you people really, really scare me.

Please dont run for public office at any time during the course of your life.