Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: hogenbor on July 28, 2003, 03:54:58 AM
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After reading some write-ups on the subject I tried to fly with tracers turned off.
I have about 10 months of experience in AH now but I think a lot of people I see on-line fly more in a month than I do in a year… Nevertheless I'm not a newbie anymore and am still getting better. I also seek ways of improving myself, like flying fighters I can't really seem to get to grips with and of course switching off tracers.
After a weekend without tracers I don't really see any difference in succes rate yet. What I noticed though that although I tend to 'miss' the visual help tracers provide, I compensate by getting a bit closer and aim better. What's the most surprising thing to me is that I simply do not use the gunsight. A potential target is always maneuvering and so is your own aircraft. There seems to be some internal algorithm at work that tries to compensate and compute lead. Therefore looking at the target instead of the gunsight seems to work better for me.
Still, when spraying a bit during high deflection shots I still miss tracers (and that P-38 I only got smoking yesterday and killed me instead ). I know that in real life tracers have different ballistics than ordinary rounds. Is this modelled in Aces High?
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Fly with tracers off for about a week and you should get used to it.
One of the main problems with having tracers on is that one might become dependent on using the tracers to correct your lead. So in essence you start to lead with your tracers instead of your gun sight. From your post, that sounds like what's been happening to you already with tracers on.
At least for me and a few others, flying with tracers off really has helped improve the gunnery skills. But as with everything YMMV.
ack-ack
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I find tracers distracting, particularly during nightfighting. The only time I see a benefit to tracers is when shooting the Osti and field guns because of their ballistics and slow ROF.
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All of the above plus...enemy breaks as soon as he sees tracers fly by...if tracers are off...enemy breaks when he starts hearing hits.
OTH...if want to force a break to clear someone's tail, for instance, tracers are good for that. At least they force me to break...:cool:
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Darn tracers always get in my way and makes it harder to see pings .Leave them off your hit % should improve.
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Originally posted by hogenbor
What I noticed though that although I tend to 'miss' the visual help tracers provide, I compensate by getting a bit closer and aim better.
Yup. And you also won't give yourself away as much. Can't tell you how many times I've been (temporarily) saved because I saw the tracers go by and broke before they were on me.
- oldman
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I still use tracers, just as an alternative arguement. I think it's a personal thing. I tend to hold fire though to the point where tracers make no difference since I'm landing hits from basically my first round. I think for average guys who are firing at D400+ there can be issues related to spooking the enemy but for me that is an advantage. Quite often I'll shoot short bursts to spook people into turning and tracers can help with that for me.
It's a personal thing though, like convergence settings, and I bet there are advantages to having them on and off but it's deciding which works best for you.
-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps
The Assassins.
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so what you are saying is, If I turn off my tracers and the enamy has his on he can not see mine ???
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Thats right GP if you turn your tracers off enemy will not see them nor will you. However your country men still will so they can tell when your shooting and not fly thru your bullet stream. Well the will still fly thru your bullet stream but at least they cant say they didnt see it.
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Originally posted by icemaw
Thats right GP if you turn your tracers off enemy will not see them nor will you. However your country men still will
are you sure about that? I thought even countrymen couldn't see the tracers (from aircraft).
- oldman
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i forgot in this game you can hurt yourself if you shoot your own country, right ?
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Originally posted by Oldman731
are you sure about that? I thought even countrymen couldn't see the tracers (from aircraft).
- oldman
Positive countrymen can see your tracers whether they are on or off. Unless your in the DA or TA or maybe SEA not sure about that one.
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Originally posted by genputty
i forgot in this game you can hurt yourself if you shoot your own country, right ?
Thats correct shooting friendlys tranfers damage to you. Even a couple hits of 303 cal will take your tail clean off.
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Originally posted by icemaw
Positive countrymen can see your tracers whether they are on or off. Unless your in the DA or TA or maybe SEA not sure about that one.
I would dispute this, if I really cared about it. Whether my country men see my tracers or not really doesn't affect my attack style all that much.
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Originally posted by icemaw
Thats correct shooting friendlys tranfers damage to you. Even a couple hits of 303 cal will take your tail clean off.
in the older version it wouldnt...
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Mores the pity. It's a tough game that has to promote killshooter because people are willing to vulch their own countrymen. Be it momentary anger, or a newby shooting up the first thing he sees in the arena. Or maybe a guy who's side is losing so he could change sides, grab a buff and bomb the enemy from within the enemys country. Just because the enemy is "playing fair" and trying to win the reset of the guys homeland.
Why do I mention this? Because we sure hear alot of real world rhetoric about flying, acm and what this or that plane should be able to do with regards to guns, power, speeed or energy.
Yet in the real world friendly fire did kill people. Be it some dummy giving the wrong target coordinates and shelling friendlies or in the virtual world with some guy so hell bent on stealing a kill that he's gotta fly in front of someone who's already engaged. If that's what the guy is willing to do to get a kill then he should also be willing to accept the consequences of his actions. And that is to die by friendly fire that is a direct result of his flying into someones bullet stream and not have killshooter.
Alternatively, a middle ground might be considered acceptable.
Having nothing happen as a result of some guy flying into your bullet stream does away with killshooter as no penalty is incurred. This is the equivilent of having someone not being able to bomb their own base. You take off and attempt to bomb your base with no effect. It's basically the same as having more than one plane taking off from a field at the same time. You go through the other friendly with no damage to either of you. The arena setting is already in place for that.
To recap:
Shoot a friendly nothing happens. Nada. Niente!
Whats the point of kill shooter? If nothing happens when a friendly fires on someone it serves the same purpose.
Does that seem like a hard concept to grasp? Hmmmmm...
Ren
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When I fire to kill, I do it very close and the target is usually destroyed with first burst, surprise seeing tracers is irrelevant this way, there is no chance at all of evasion. But having tracers ON and firing even from very long ranges, gives you the chance of force the enemy to break while pursuing a friendly. Also, with tracers on you have less chances of being destroyed by kill shooter. I cant find any advantage of turning off tracers, unless you are a spray'n pray adict, firing systematically at long ranges, and that kind of kills are, IMO, plain crap.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
When I fire to kill, I do it very close and the target is usually destroyed with first burst, surprise seeing tracers is irrelevant this way, there is no chance at all of evasion. But having tracers ON and firing even from very long ranges, gives you the chance of force the enemy to break while pursuing a friendly. Also, with tracers on you have less chances of being destroyed by kill shooter. I cant find any advantage of turning off tracers, unless you are a spray'n pray adict, firing systematically at long ranges, and that kind of kills are, IMO, plain crap.
LOL! Another Mandoble gem. Seriously, Mandoble, you think the only possible benefit of turning off tracers is long range spray 'n pray? Amazing.
Reasons for turning off tracers:
(1) Improves aim by forcing the player to use the gunsight rather than "walking" tracers to the target. So one benefit is increased efficiency.
(2) As aiming at long distances becomes more difficult without tracers, turning them off forces players to get in relatively closer before opening fire. This benefits both aim (i.e. efficiency) and lethality.
(3) Turning off tracers improves the chances of jumping others without giving yourself away with tracer fire. Sorry, Mandoble, not everyone is a cherry picking ubershooter like you, so for many this creates tangible improvements to their BnZ abilities.
(4) Turning off tracers creates uncertainty in enemies who are unsure if you are firing at them or have a shooting angle. In situations where you're firing but missing, the enemy often does not know if you're missing ahead or behind him and as such can't adjust tactics accordingly.
Obviously turning on tracers yields benefits as well. As you mentioned, tracers can force a fleeing opponent to break. Tracers also dramatically improve long distance aim (ask Drex, who won't turn them off for that reason alone). But to say that tracers reduce the possibility of killshooter? Ummmkay.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Turning tracers off will have absolutly no effect on killshooter. Since wether you have them on or off in the MA fellow countrymen can see your tracers. Only in the DA and SEA and TA are tracers not visable to countrymen. Possibly the CT not sure there. Enemy and yourself are the only ones that cant see your tracers in the MA. At least that is what I read in the help files and has been my experience in the MA. I fly with mine off and it improved my aim very much.
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I know for sure: if your tracers are off, nmy does not see them; killshooter works the same with or without tracers; there are advantages and disadvantages both using or not using tracers. I much prefer all nmy to use them while mine are off. That first pass says alot about a pilot -- h.o. wannabe vs. someone intent on getting clean shot after avoiding h.o. And it sure is nice for a poor shot to announce his opening fire while you evade.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Sorry, Mandoble, not everyone is a cherry picking ubershooter like you
-- Todd/Leviathn
Priceless... :D