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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on July 30, 2003, 03:07:25 PM

Title: German Attack
Post by: Ripsnort on July 30, 2003, 03:07:25 PM
A german company is starting with the production. The first car will be delivered in March 2004.

Some technical spec :

2.0 Liter 4 cylinder or 2.5 V6 Ford engine (190/220 hp)

Weight 830 kg
0-100 km/h in less than 5 seconds
(http://automotor.netscape.de/content/Auto_Article_EXT/472487_1059385926865.jpg)
(http://automotor.netscape.de/content/Auto_Article_EXT/472487_1059385952653.jpg)
(http://automotor.netscape.de/content/Auto_Article_EXT/472487_1059385978132.jpg)
(http://automotor.netscape.de/content/Auto_Article_EXT/472487_1059386027998.jpg)
Title: German Attack
Post by: Curval on July 30, 2003, 03:16:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
That chicks look on her face in the first picture made me think "Velkome to Lufthansa. No man haz ever tuched theze brezts and no man ever will." :D

Nice car though.


OMG..I thought the same thing.:D

...and yea, nice car.:)
Title: German Attack
Post by: Mickey1992 on July 30, 2003, 03:17:02 PM
I like how she seems to have her skirt pulled back in the 2nd pic.  Real subtle. :rolleyes:
Title: German Attack
Post by: Modas on July 30, 2003, 03:35:39 PM
she'd could break me in half




And both pieces would be smilin'




:D
Title: German Attack
Post by: funkedup on July 30, 2003, 03:41:31 PM
smurfy car, nice blonde.  :)
Title: German Attack
Post by: Saurdaukar on July 30, 2003, 03:43:04 PM
I like.  The cars not bad either.
Title: German Attack
Post by: Skuzzy on July 30, 2003, 03:52:19 PM
Styling elements from the Porsche Carrera GT all over that car.

Different.
Title: German Attack
Post by: Ripsnort on July 30, 2003, 03:53:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
That chicks look on her face in the first picture made me think "Velkome to Lufthansa. No man haz ever tuched theze brezts and no man ever will." :D

Nice car though.


We have a shortened term in the U.S. for that....

"Can't touch this..."
Title: German Attack
Post by: Ripsnort on July 30, 2003, 03:54:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
smurfy car, nice blonde.  :)


Anyone else find this very strange coming from someone who drives a car as smurfy as a WRX???!!! :D  Gonna call you "Guppy" from now on, Funked.
Title: German Attack
Post by: Saurdaukar on July 30, 2003, 04:00:30 PM
Aye Skuzzy, kinda like a Carrera GT/RX8 bastard child.

I imagine its be pretty quick around town but with only 200HP would run out of steam over about 80MPH.
Title: German Attack
Post by: Ripsnort on July 30, 2003, 04:04:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Aye Skuzzy, kinda like a Carrera GT/RX8 bastard child.

I imagine its be pretty quick around town but with only 200HP would run out of steam over about 80MPH.


Nah, I have 225 hp and plenty of steam up to about 140...between 140 and 155 it takes about 15 sec more (losing steam)

Besides, this weighs 830 kg!
Title: German Attack
Post by: Saurdaukar on July 30, 2003, 04:09:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Nah, I have 225 hp and plenty of steam up to about 140...between 140 and 155 it takes about 15 sec more (losing steam)

Besides, this weighs 830 kg!


Rip, dont forget about the other car in my sig at BF.C.  ;)

Im well aware of how far a 330 will take you - and in all honesty, its got fantastic pull at high speed for its displacement, and great gearing, but its not awe inspiring.  I think its runs out of steam at around 100MPH.

At high speed, weight is not so much the problem - its air resistance - and you need goba of torque to overcome it.
Title: German Attack
Post by: Ripsnort on July 30, 2003, 04:16:18 PM
Good point!  Wonder what the gear ratio on this Attack would be? Still, as you say, you need torque.
Title: German Attack
Post by: DiabloTX on July 30, 2003, 04:19:08 PM
Thats funny.  When I read the title of this thread I was curious.  Now, it turns out it was about der Fraulein all along!!!  Do Germans ever really smile?  Uhhh...don't answer that! :eek:
Title: German Attack
Post by: DiabloTX on July 30, 2003, 04:21:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Good point!  Wonder what the gear ratio on this Attack would be? Still, as you say, you need torque.


I always under the impression that torque launched you and hp gave you lower e.t.'s and higher mph?
Title: German Attack
Post by: Ripsnort on July 30, 2003, 04:56:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
I always under the impression that torque launched you and hp gave you lower e.t.'s and higher mph?


But "loosing steam" that Saur replied to means you will still get the speed, just takes time to get up there because of less torque, and with only 200 ponies like this car...HP is indeed needed.
Title: German Attack
Post by: Saurdaukar on July 30, 2003, 05:01:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
I always under the impression that torque launched you and hp gave you lower e.t.'s and higher mph?


That can be argued, but the inverse can also be argued.

The HP vs. TQ debate takes place each and every single day between American V8 guys and Jap import guys on their respective forums.

Im not a physics guy, so I wont pretend to be able to explain it technically, but at speeds under 120-ish MPH, torque is less important that it is at speeds over 120MPH.

If youve ever driven a small displacement, high HP, low TQ Jap car (Integra, RSX TS, or something along those lines, past the 120MPH zone back to back with say... an M5 or a Z06, the difference would be glaring.

Once past that speed threshold, the Integra/RSX/etc will hit a brick wall due to the combination of drag and lack of torque and the M5 or Z06 will plow through it and continue to twist the needle on the speedometer - despite both the BMW and Corvette being bigger, heavier, and producing more drag (mostly due to frontal area).

Im not sure if this 'feel' would even be experienced on a 1/4 mile strip unless you were in a pro/am class of some sort and trapping over 130-140MPH.

Someone clarify if Ive blown a gasket - Im not the greatest at explaining things sometimes.
Title: German Attack
Post by: DiabloTX on July 30, 2003, 05:08:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
If youve ever driven a small displacement, high HP, low TQ Jap car....


God no, Sauer, bite your friggin' tongue!!  Big blocks only!!!
Title: German Attack
Post by: MrCoffee on July 30, 2003, 05:10:50 PM
In laymans terms, torque is essentially when the engne gives you best pull acceleration. Its the point  along the RPM band where the engine provides the most acceleration and is the most efficient in terms of power output/RPM. Max HP comes above max torque in the RPM and is the product of increased power through increased RPM though with less torque. After peek torque, your engine still produces more power but loses the net value due to friction and heat. At max HP, your engine balances out at 50% total power  loss to friction and heat and 50% total power left that is usable at the flywheel.

So torque = good acceleration/pull.
HP = top speed, specially the later fractions of it.

Anyone notice the front shock arrangment protruding from the front hood.

thumbs up on babe :D
Title: German Attack
Post by: BlkKnit on July 30, 2003, 05:13:09 PM
car?  what car?:p
Title: German Attack
Post by: DiabloTX on July 30, 2003, 05:13:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MrCoffee


So torque = good acceleration/pull.
HP = top speed, specially the later fractions of it.

Anyone notice the front shock arrangment protruding from the front hood.



That's what I always thought.  And nice catch on the front suspension layout.  Open wheel suspension on a street car.  Niiiiiiiiice!!!! :)
Title: German Attack
Post by: Ripsnort on July 30, 2003, 05:17:33 PM
Someone shoot me, I've been eyeing the upcoming 2004 Ford Cobra SVT with 390 HP generated from a turbo, with 450+ lbs. of torque...:D (May have to repaint my Roundel on the garage wall!)
Title: German Attack
Post by: DiabloTX on July 30, 2003, 05:18:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Someone shoot me, I've been eyeing the upcoming 2004 Ford Cobra SVT with 390 HP generated from a turbo, with 450+ lbs. of torque...:D (May have to repaint my Roundel on the garage wall!)


Ok, what'll it be?  .38 or .44 cal.?
Title: German Attack
Post by: DiabloTX on July 30, 2003, 06:20:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Its a Fixed Or Repaired Daily. You'd better carpet your mechanics garage instead. ;)


GScholz I couldn't agree with you more here buddy, !!!!
Title: German Attack
Post by: Otto on July 30, 2003, 07:10:30 PM
Boy!  I don't know...  A little bit of snow and you'd be in real trouble.
Title: German Attack
Post by: funkedup on July 30, 2003, 11:16:38 PM
All other things being equal, if two cars are going the same speed, the one whose engine is producing more power will have greater acceleration.

The torque figures in the magazines are measured at the crankshaft.  The actual torque exerted on the wheels, and more importantly the thrust transmitted by the wheels to the ground, is as much a function of gearing and wheel diameter as it is a function of crankshaft torque.

You can multiply torque as much as you want by using large gear ratios and/or small diameter wheels.

Power only gets slightly reduced by large gear ratios.

Power will always trump torque if you get the gearing right.

That'a a big "if" though.  And that's why F-1 cars have 7 speed gearboxes and why we'll all be driving cars with CVT's in 15 years.
Title: German Attack
Post by: MrCoffee on July 31, 2003, 01:36:30 AM
Heres a simple way to consider torque vs HP. It would be strange to rate an engines power output based on its available torque since that value would max out well below its usable RPMs. So an enegry rating in HP is given.

BTW: did some searching on the car and come up with these links.

http://www.k1-styling.sk/default2.htm

http://evteam.gambitdesign.com/gallery/attack_build

Now I want one but cant afford it yet :D I think it costs around 18,000 US dollars for the the kit (converted from Euro to US). Correct me if Im wrong.
Title: German Attack
Post by: swoopy on July 31, 2003, 08:10:10 AM
mm looks like a copy of the vx220 to me, prefer that tho
Title: German Attack
Post by: gatso on July 31, 2003, 08:13:57 AM
Exactly what I thought swoopy. Elise/VX220 clone with slightly more attitude in the styling.

Pics a bit big so linked it rather than img tagged it.

http://www.lotuscars.co.uk/media/Elise_rendered_front.jpg (http://www.lotuscars.co.uk/media/Elise_rendered_front.jpg)

Gatso
Title: German Attack
Post by: swoopy on July 31, 2003, 08:26:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar


Once past that speed threshold, the Integra/RSX/etc will hit a brick wall due to the combination of drag and lack of torque and the M5 or Z06 will plow through it and continue to twist the needle on the speedometer - despite both the BMW and Corvette being bigger, heavier, and producing more drag (mostly due to frontal area).


mm No
Title: German Attack
Post by: Maniac on July 31, 2003, 08:35:37 AM
She looks like an real squeak!

If she looked at me like that in RL she would get the
Title: German Attack
Post by: lazs2 on July 31, 2003, 08:39:31 AM
funked has it... torque is needed to pull tall gears.   torque is what you feel when acceleratning.   All gearing is a "torque multiplie"  the less torque you have the more of a multiplier you need.... lower gears and lower top speed.  if you have little  torque and tall gears, you will not be able to "pull' the gears... say a 2.75 rear end gear with a 150lbs of torque... at 7,000 rpm and say... 200 hp.... the 150 ft/lb of torque car should go about 190mph say but.... the car won't be able to get to those 7000 RPM in top gear because without enough torque the engine won't have enough grunt to punch that kind of hole in the air.  The motor simply would not rev past say 4000 rpm.  

aerodynamics play a huge role also.   In the old days you would just let huge torque numbers poke the holes in the air at speed.   That  still works and works even better now with modern overdrive transmissions.
lazs
Title: German Attack
Post by: Ripsnort on July 31, 2003, 10:19:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
She looks like an real squeak!

If she looked at me like that in RL she would get the


BS, you'd be over there groveling and drooling, licking her boots, eating her used Kleenex that she discarded...
Title: German Attack
Post by: nuchpatrick on July 31, 2003, 10:22:26 AM
I like the chick.. I like the car...

A year ago, Ford (gag)/ Mazda made an abomination to the Miata with that Duratech V6.  It's not a bad motor, very cool.  Will never be made however.

The car looks fairly light.. I'd say its good for 150mph.

On the dyno (with out drag induced) Mine topped out at near 150 at 7200RPM with a 4.10 rear end..  The car is actually drag limited to around 120-130.  Which near 120.. I'd rather not drive this car with out some form of aero package  :D

I may be crazy but I'm not looking to kill my self that fast...
Title: German Attack
Post by: SOB on July 31, 2003, 10:23:48 AM
You're a sick bastard, Ripsnort.  I respect that.  ;)


SOB
Title: German Attack
Post by: gofaster on July 31, 2003, 10:41:10 AM
I see a lot of aerodynamic drag in the design of the front fascia and hood.
Title: German Attack
Post by: Saurdaukar on July 31, 2003, 10:54:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by swoopy
mm No


Hey, Im not being technical - Im not a mechanic - but from my track experience, 'mm no' is 'mm wrong.'

I dont suppose you have an account at http://www.importthugs.com do you?
Title: German Attack
Post by: TPIguy on July 31, 2003, 12:13:27 PM
that company also makes this

(http://www.k1-styling.sk/evo1/exterior/strecha2.jpg)
Its really a 3rd gen f-body under the skin.
Title: German Attack
Post by: funkedup on July 31, 2003, 12:24:06 PM
I'm guessing the little one is based on a Fiero then?
Looks like German rice to me.
Title: German Attack
Post by: funkedup on July 31, 2003, 12:27:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Anyone else find this very strange coming from someone who drives a car as smurfy as a WRX???!!! :D  Gonna call you "Guppy" from now on, Funked.


It's what's inside that makes the difference.
Title: German Attack
Post by: nuchpatrick on July 31, 2003, 12:28:44 PM
Umm.. Funk you have the biggest Rice rocket on the road...   :D
Title: German Attack
Post by: TPIguy on July 31, 2003, 12:31:25 PM
actually the "Attack" is a tube frame w/ plastic body. You also need a 90-96 accord doner car. All the info is listed in one of the links somebody posted before.
Title: German Attack
Post by: funkedup on July 31, 2003, 12:46:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by nuchpatrick
Umm.. Funk you have the biggest Rice rocket on the road...   :D


Ummm look who's talking.  :)
No cosmetic bolt on crap on my car anyways.  Form follows function.  :)
Title: German Attack
Post by: Skuzzy on July 31, 2003, 12:47:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Form follows function.  :)


I dare you to apply that to SOB. :D
Title: German Attack
Post by: funkedup on July 31, 2003, 12:50:06 PM
I can only think of one "function" for which SOB would be useful.  Emergency food source after nuclear armageddon.
Title: German Attack
Post by: nuchpatrick on July 31, 2003, 01:03:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Ummm look who's talking.  :)
No cosmetic bolt on crap on my car anyways.  Form follows function.  :)




Bolt on?? Hrmm.. do rims/wheels count in this? Or are you talking about the removeable hard top?  :D
Title: German Attack
Post by: funkedup on July 31, 2003, 01:05:20 PM
OK "glue-on" or "Bondo-on".  :D
Title: German Attack
Post by: nuchpatrick on July 31, 2003, 01:06:53 PM
None. . . . .  I prefer the sleeper look.
Title: German Attack
Post by: MrCoffee on July 31, 2003, 03:32:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
funked has it... torque is needed to pull tall gears.   torque is what you feel when acceleratning.   All gearing is a "torque multiplie"  the less torque you have the more of a multiplier you need.... lower gears and lower top speed.  if you have little  torque and tall gears, you will not be able to "pull' the gears... say a 2.75 rear end gear with a 150lbs of torque... at 7,000 rpm and say... 200 hp.... the 150 ft/lb of torque car should go about 190mph say but.... the car won't be able to get to those 7000 RPM in top gear because without enough torque the engine won't have enough grunt to punch that kind of hole in the air.  The motor simply would not rev past say 4000 rpm.  

aerodynamics play a huge role also.   In the old days you would just let huge torque numbers poke the holes in the air at speed.   That  still works and works even better now with modern overdrive transmissions.
lazs


Lazs, actually  gearing and ratios are a divizer not a multiplier of net power.

A 5-speed will give you the same top speed as a 7-speed though in an application where the automobile lacks torque throughout its power band or is very peaky, the 7-speed will get you to top speed faster.

(disregarding air resistance & assuming theres enough usable torque for the 5-speed)

ragards,

coffee