Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on July 30, 2003, 04:41:33 PM
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http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2360897/detail.html
Parents: White Teacher Should Not Teach Black History
Group Of Parents Protest District's Decision
OBERLIN, Ohio, Updated 1:33 p.m. EDT July 28, 2003 -- A group of parents said they will fight a possible decision to allow a white teacher to lead classes in black history at Oberlin High School.
NewsChannel5 reported that a scheduling conflict could cause the district to reassign the black teacher who has taught the course for seven years.
Using a white teacher at Oberlin High School would send the wrong message to black students, said A.G. Miller, an associate professor of American and African religious history at Oberlin College.
"The message is that we are not concerned about the importance of your historical background ... that that is less important than a schedule conflict," said Miller, whose three children graduated from Oberlin High School.
Jaqui Willis, a black Oberlin parent, said the teacher is a role model and that removing him from the class would be detrimental to students.
The parents have protested the move to the school board, but the district's superintendent, Beverly Reep, has not commented on the case. Reep told parents at a school board meeting that scheduling issues would be addressed this week.
Schools and community leaders in the Cleveland area are split over the issue of whether blacks should be the only ones to teach black history.
In Cleveland, white and black teachers teach black history. A black teacher teaches black history at Shaker Heights High School, but a white teacher handles classes on oppression and human relations, both which deal extensively with race relations and slavery.
Little research has been done to determine whether same-race teachers lead to higher achievement by minority students. Ronald Ehrenberg, director of Cornell University's Higher Education Research Institute, said many researchers steer clear of the topic out of fear of being attacked.
Michael Williams, interim director of Cleveland State University's black studies program, said schools should choose a black teacher if that person is most qualified, not just because the teacher happens to be black.
If two teachers are equally qualified, Williams gives the edge to the black teacher.
"That person still has the advantage of the culture," said Williams, who is black. "They understand the nuances of the culture."
Phyllis Yarber Hogan, a member of the Oberlin Black Alliance for Progress, said a white teacher wouldn't be well-suited to teaching students about subjects like slavery.
"When you talk about slavery, students need to understand it is not our fault," she said. "Our ancestors did nothing wrong to be enslaved.
"How do you work through that when the person teaching it is the same type of person who did the enslaving?"
Imagine this with the roles reversed...
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racists...... not you, but the parents.....
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Should be up to the qualifications of the teacher. And those parents should know that!
ijits.
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Just wondering ? Do they have a White history class there?
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Spike Lee said it himself, "Racism is when you have laws set up, systematically put in the way to keep people from advancing, to stop the advancement of a people. Black people have never had the power to enforce racism, and so this is something that white America is going to have to work out themselves. If they decide they want to stop it, curtail it, or to do the right thing … then it will be done, but not until then."
Well, it looks like they have the power now.
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So... the star belly sneetches can't teach history to the plain belly sneetches and vice versa?
:rolleyes:
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RC51 the more you post the more you concern me. History currently taught in schools is the "White" history you are refering to. Its just not called that. In schools where the majority of the population is black they offer black history classes. It shouldnt matter what race the teacher is as long as they are qualified.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
So... the star belly sneetches can't teach history to the plain belly sneetches and vice versa?
:rolleyes:
That you Snoop Dogg?? Fizzle of the televizzle with the shnizzle mizzle bro...word. Out!!
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does that mean a black teacher can't teach "white "history?
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Originally posted by jamusta
It shouldnt matter what race the teacher is as long as they are qualified.
Methinks that is the point here. Not sure what rc's is other than if white parents protested a black teacher teaching "White" history the networks would be all over it.
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My point is there should be NO black history!!
And there should be NO White history!!
Just good old American history !!
With all the Uglyness that there is in it.
Look people we as a country will never grow together if we keep putting up barrieres.
The whites can't have an all white college fund can they.
But the Black's have the united negro college fund.
Do you see my point?
African american! sorry but thats crap!!!
I mean how would it sound for me to say I'm German jew dutch American?
Again SILLY.
I am an American as simple as that .
As is all of those who call America there home.
We must all stop the finger pointing and maybe hold out our hands in friendship to those who might look different than us but are really just the same.
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I'll start holding their hands but those Indian/Pakistani/Afghani types need to start taking baths. :D
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LOL
:D
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I agree RC51 but it will never happen. Our cultures are to different. I believe that everyones history should be taught. If we learned each others history it would help us in the future. But they dont other history besides american history in most schools. Everyone takes american history its a requirement. But what if I want to learn about the history of my own people or someone elses people. There is a reason why black folks call history "His Story" cus american history just barely touches on the contributions made by black people.
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I had to take a year of world history in high school. One year on American history. And one year of Texas history in the 8th grade. The Texas history was by far the most interesting.
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im sorta confused but are you saying this is like having an elderly oriental woman as a driving instructor?:confused:
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Originally posted by bigsky
im sorta confused but are you saying this is like having an elderly oriental woman as a driving instructor?:confused:
No, you said that. If that's what you're saying. And if you aren't what are you saying?
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So... the star belly sneetches can't teach history to the plain belly sneetches and vice versa?
right on!, everything really important I've learned from Dr. Seuss
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Very few things can get under my skin deep enough to make me angry.
This is one of them.
No comment.
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Prejudice knows no color lines or societal boundaries. History should be about facts, not interpretations. Defining expertise in a subject on the basis of skin color is descrimination no matter what the subject or color of the skin.
Being neither white nor black I have been the butt of both sides prejudice. I have to say the whites were less obvious and frequent about it than other peoples of differing colors. Even my "own people" did it as I happen to not show my heritage as much as they. Prejudice or racism is simply wrong.
IMO There is only ONE race on this planet, they just come in a variety of shapes and colors.
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Its really not "IMO" Maverick, we're all humans. Just like all monkeys are monkeys, they just come in different types.
Is a shar-pei not a dog just like a boston terrier?
In any event, ignorance and stupidity are evidently human nature... I don't think you could sufficiently describe our behavior in any other way.
-SW
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Looks like the segregation era south had it right all along! What on earth is "our" culture coming to....
:rolleyes:
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"cultures" aren't "race" or "DNA" Grun.
-SW
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Well thank you Mr Webster! :) But seriously what point are you trying to explain SW? None of what you said seems to be relevant in my post were I was pointing out the sad segragationist irony of this whole debacle...
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what is "black history"?
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A revisionist version of American history which is designed to promote a racist political agenda.
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so , Afro-american teacher will learn with correct bias?
and white not?
Mby they should employ somone from China?;)
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Using Racism to fight racism...makes perfect sense!
SOB
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btw this reminde me my school times whe every teacher of history and WOS (lessions about politics and how country works) must have bean comunistic party member.
Just to be sure we will learn correct with socialistic spirit.
And all thats was BS as u all know;)
From other side its reminde me "correct" education in Germany, just before WW2. And Russia before and after war.
ramzey
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Grun, regardless of Webster, I was pointing out that you had our in quotes referencing culture... while my culture is different from yours as your's is from Africans, as mine is from Asians.
So segregation really doesn't have anything to do with culture, as by definition, because culture is segregation, while race has everything to do with segregation because dividing up people by skin color is the definition of racism - which is naturally going on in this situation in Ohio.
-SW
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Well, in part, thats why I put the quotes around "our."
But my point was that after all this bloody struggle to end sergegation, now the new civil rights leaderhip is pushing for it in every aspect of life - especially with children.. I think it's tragic and stupid.
Butt it's intersting how you dont recognize a common american culture, as in the mix of experiences we face every day as americans...
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Edited Post: Culture has nothing to do with the original post at hand, so I'm curious as to why you used it in this thread?
-SW
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Ramzey to answer your question since funked did a piss poor job,
black history is not a seperate history than that of american history. It is simply the history of the contributions that black americans have done for this country. The part that american history wont teach you. Such as:
July 10th 1893
Dr. Daniel Hale Williams performs the world's first open-heart surgery on a young man named James Cornish. James was rushed to Provident Hospital in Chicago with a stab wound
Louis Latimer invented the filament for Edison's light bulb. Until Latimer's filament, Edison's light bulbs would burn only for a few minutes. Latimer's filament burned for hours.
J. Standard invented the refrigerator in 1891
Garrett Morgan traffic light 1923
George Washington Carver peanut butter 1896
Need I go on??
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Culture has everything to do with this thread...
What kind of definition for the word "culture" do you have?
Imagine if somebody tried to do this 10-20 years ago, they would be laughed at if not worse.
Or imagine now if it was reversed and some white parents objected to a black proffessor teaching a course titled "European History."
One aspect of culture is just about what is considered acceptable in society at any give time.
For example US culture, as reflected in US laws, as of 60 years ago considered it acceptable to have a segregated army with "black only" units. Now that is not culturaly acceptable and it is not the case. 40 years ago it was acceptable in US culture, and reflected in laws, that black people have seperate water fountains and dining facilities at restaurants (if they were even allowed in). Or that blacks could only ride in the back of the bus - again this is no longer the case.
Also 40 years ago liberals considered it abhorrent that black students were segregaed from white students, but today apperently some liberals are opening up to the idea that segregation is a great idea. Their ideas and thought have changed on the matter - and since another aspect of culture is ideas - the culture has changed.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Ramzey to answer your question since funked did a piss poor job,
black history is not a seperate history than that of american history. It is simply the history of the contributions that black americans have done for this country. The part that american history wont teach you. Such as:
July 10th 1893
Dr. Daniel Hale Williams performs the world's first open-heart surgery on a young man named James Cornish. James was rushed to Provident Hospital in Chicago with a stab wound
Louis Latimer invented the filament for Edison's light bulb. Until Latimer's filament, Edison's light bulbs would burn only for a few minutes. Latimer's filament burned for hours.
J. Standard invented the refrigerator in 1891
Garrett Morgan traffic light 1923
George Washington Carver peanut butter 1896
Need I go on??
If you must but most of those were taught to me in my school. The ones who didn't make the cut were Carver (peanut butter, mmmmmmm thank you sir!! ) and Standard for the refrigerator that holds the milk I drink with my PB sandwich (MMMMMMM THANK YOU SIR!!! ).
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The simple fact is that the teacher (white, black, yellow, blue with orange polkadots) should be hired to teach the subject based on qualifications. If not, then it is a case of discrimination.
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Well, it's clear that most of the americans in this thread don't know their black history, or haven't read the article very closely.
First, this is Oberlin, OH. I happen to know oberlin fairly well -- I lived there for three and a half years. Oberlin is a town outside of cleveland with a population of about 9000 -- 3000 of these are students. The college was founded somewhere around 1833 by abolitionists, and was the first college in the country to admit blacks and women at the same status as white men. It was a major stop on the underground railroad, and a major (and successful) riot broke out once when an attempt was made to "return an escape slave" Throughout the years it's retained that radical character.
Now put this thing in the middle of rural Northern Ohio, 7 miles from a town that at the city limits, proudly announces that it's the hometown of a CMH recipient -- certainly something to be proud of. Of course, it's also the hometown of a Nobel Prize winner, but there's no indication of that. Yeah, you guessed the difference.
So you have a teacher who was popular and was reassigned, and during the summer, when the students are gone (because Lord knows they'd raise holy hell if they were in town. Free time and idealism is a bad combination in rich kids from New York City).
We're not getting the full story, and this isn't your typical community.
But that's true of american history in general. Thanks to Liz Cheney, we can proudly state that "our history is too important to leave in the hands of professional historians". And the result is the stuff jamusta has to say about US history is news to most people.
Oh and Heismann (of trophy fame) and Nine Inch Nails went to Oberlin HS
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Well the things I mentioned were not in any of my american history books and I went to a majority black school. Unfortunately the racial walls will not fall in my lifetime. Things are alot better but we are far from equal in america. Racism is not as out in the open but it still exist.
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Will we be more "equal" if this white teacher is kicked out of the class? Would it be better if he taught from the back of the class? Perhaps from a special desk and maybe only if he used a special board...
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Originally posted by jamusta
Racism is not as out in the open but it still exist.
As evidenced by the story. :)
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"July 10th 1893
Dr. Daniel Hale Williams performs the world's first open-heart surgery on a young man named James Cornish. James was rushed to Provident Hospital in Chicago with a stab wound
Louis Latimer invented the filament for Edison's light bulb. Until Latimer's filament, Edison's light bulbs would burn only for a few minutes. Latimer's filament burned for hours.
J. Standard invented the refrigerator in 1891
Garrett Morgan traffic light 1923
George Washington Carver peanut butter 1896
Need I go on??"
I can..
The Gas Mask guy
The "Real McCoy" railroad tech inventor guy
But that proves nothing? Unless of course you saying all other history books are full of pages and pages cataloging every invention ever made by some white guy? Or even that such
information is common knowlege. In other words only history geeks know such things or care about them on such a detailed level...
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racism goes both ways thes days.
Grunz u are missing the point...history books goes in great details about white men who have done great things for this country. but nothing is really said about any great minority in american history. i learned edison invented the light bulb bell the telephone. who knew that Latimer made the drawings for the phone and made the filament for the bulb...not me
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Originally posted by jamusta
Well the things I mentioned were not in any of my american history books and I went to a majority black school. Unfortunately the racial walls will not fall in my lifetime. Things are alot better but we are far from equal in america. Racism is not as out in the open but it still exist.
You're absolutely correct. There are inequalities, though they are less due to race and more due to class. Fortunately, regardless of what class you start out in, there is opportunity in this country to better yourself and your situation. And there's certainly racism, and unfortunately it comes from all directions. Some is not as out in the open as it once was, as in the case of person to person racism, while some is quite open and prevalent as in our government mandated racism, aka: affirmative action.
SOB
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Now this is jsut ****ing stupid.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Need I go on??
Yes please, this is interesting.
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Yes, please continue. So far you've named a couple of inventors. I'm waiting for something more interesting, because frankly, I don't really care who made the light bulb, or the filament inside the light bulb. When I need a lightbulb, I go to Wal Mart and get a light bulb. Flick switch, lightbulb turns on. And then I go back to never thinking about light bulbs.
So what else have you got jamusta?
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Well said mjolner,
I could really give a rat's prettythang as to who invented a damn thing, other than the principle behind how it works there is no need to know who made the damn thing, that's just ego. As for "white" and "black" history, how about this: Just teach plain old history. Cripes all these damn revisionists want "their" versions of history taught to people, well ask your self this, does the color of the teacher really freaking matter so long as the material is the same? Exactly, until these imbeciles that seem to know it all get their heads outta their arse and stop thinking in terms of race, then racism will continue to be taught to their children.
Cripes, this whole argument makes me sick. It's a wonder those parents sleep at night.
:confused:
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we didn't get that much into inventions in our history classes. We certainly didn't get into the first recorded time someone opened up a heart. I think we mentioned blacks in the slavery part and in the civil war part.
Oh.. will it be a light skinned black or a dark skinned black that replaces the white guy?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Oh.. will it be a light skinned black or a dark skinned black that replaces the white guy?
lazs
Ooooooohhhh!!! Classic!!!!! ;)
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Originally posted by mjolnir
Yes, please continue. So far you've named a couple of inventors. I'm waiting for something more interesting, because frankly, I don't really care who made the light bulb, or the filament inside the light bulb. When I need a lightbulb, I go to Wal Mart and get a light bulb. Flick switch, lightbulb turns on. And then I go back to never thinking about light bulbs.
So what else have you got jamusta?
This is just silly.
Saying someone invented the filament is like saying Columbus did not discover America..his navigator did.
History is rife with people who are credited with achieving things and taking credit for others work. (BTW, we're pretty sure it was'nt columbus who discovered america. SOme say it was a Norseman. He was white too. Does it matter?)
I went to a 99% white high school. We did not have African, Asian, European, Antarican, history. We had American history.
Did they leave out the achievements of Afircan-Americans? Sure. Did they leave out Eurpean-Americans? Of course.
Who did I learn about?
Well, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Harriet Tubman, Fredrick Douglas, Alexander Crummel, and more. This is all I can remember off the top of my head.
The point is, there is only so much one can teach and students can absorb in one history class. Of course, the less important achievements are going to give way to the bigger achievements. So we don't know who made the filament for Edison's lght bulb. We know who led the civil rights movement, and who worked the underground railroad.
I want a qualified, unbiased teacher for my daughter, no matter what race, sex, religeon, or sexual orientation they are.
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Originally posted by jamusta
racism goes both ways thes days.
Grunz u are missing the point...history books goes in great details about white men who have done great things for this country. but nothing is really said about any great minority in american history. i learned edison invented the light bulb bell the telephone. who knew that Latimer made the drawings for the phone and made the filament for the bulb...not me
Well thats just not true in my experience. I dont know when you went to school but ever since I came to this country all my US History classes had covered blacks, aisians, mexicans, and yes even them nasty whites. There is no need for seperate "black" history except as an elective. Where does one stop with this balakanization of identity?
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That story makes about as much sense as Kwanzaa.
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Man! Think of the expansion in employment opportunities for the teaching profession. History will now be a "team taught" sport.
You'll have to get a good white history teacher, a good black (African American?) history teacher, a good Asian history teacher, then a good Native American history teacher, an Eskimo/Aleut teacher, a Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander and a Hispanic/ Latino teacher.
Of course, the chairmanship of the team cannot go to the white teacher; that'd be obvious bias.
The NEA will rejoice!
These are the minimum racial/ethnic categories for the US Census only, so we may need to add a few others to the team. Feel free to add some!
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And what would be the social background required of this black teacher? If he/she grew up in an affluent neighborhood and went to a private college, would that disqualify him/her? Culture is not genetic; rather, it is what you grew up knowing. Instead of working to promote racial segregation (as with most all-black ) programs, shouldn't people of color be fighting to have their contributions to American History, American culture more fully represented to every student, and not just to black students? Equal, or at least proportional representation, rather than segregation? Or are they only interested in making themselves feel better about themselves? "We don't care what the rest of Americans know about black history, so long as our people" know," seems to be the message. It makes me sick to see the so-called black leadership in America (and who elected them, anyway?) so damaging what Martin Luther King, Jr. and other great Americans (of all races) fought to achieve, i.e. equality and unity.
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Unity?
Please....
They just opened up an All Gay High School here in NYC.
I just don't get it. Everyone wants equality, but they don't want unity.
So if I were 15, could I lobby for and get a high school for Italian americans born in America, who are Male of modest build, who don't wear eyeglasses, have no tatoos, smoke, own a dog, and like oral sex?
Because that's what were doing here. Male schools for boys. (gender) Special programs for African Americans. (Race) High schools for Gays (Sexual Orientation).
I'm white, male and straight. I want a school for people like me, and only me. Know what this is called? F*CKIN' SEGREGATION AND IT'S WRONG!
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Ok this disscussion has turned into something not even worth talking about anymore...Half of you are so blind you cant even see what I am typing...You have turned my comments into something they are not. The parents are wrong for wanting only black teachers to teach black history.. Any quailified teacher will do. No one wants to change the american history that is currently taught. No one wants to replace the history that is currently taught. BLACK HISTORY IS JUST A COURSE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE CONTRIBUTIONS AND SACRAFICES BLACK PEOPLE MADE WHILE HELPING TO BUILD THIS COUNTRY.... nothing more nothing less....
Notice I said to educate people and not to educate black people...
Take the class you might learn something....Oh but I forgot why would any of you wanna do that? The 5 pages in your history books was more than enough... Geezus open your mind and your donut will follow...
Oh and affirmative action is a tool used to equal the playing fields for all...Someone noticed that if an equally qualified white man went up against equally qualified women or minorities quess who got the job...Personally I dont need their f#$%ing handouts.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Ok this disscussion has turned into something not even worth talking about anymore...Half of you are so blind you cant even see what I am typing...You have turned my comments into something they are not. The parents are wrong for wanting only black teachers to teach black history.. Any quailified teacher will do. No one wants to change the american history that is currently taught. No one wants to replace the history that is currently taught. BLACK HISTORY IS JUST A COURSE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE CONTRIBUTIONS AND SACRAFICES BLACK PEOPLE MADE WHILE HELPING TO BUILD THIS COUNTRY.... nothing more nothing less....
Notice I said to educate people and not to educate black people...
Take the class you might learn something....Oh but I forgot why would any of you wanna do that? The 5 pages in your history books was more than enough... Geezus open your mind and your donut will follow...
Oh and affirmative action is a tool used to equal the playing fields for all...Someone noticed that if an equally qualified white man went up against equally qualified women or minorities quess who got the job...Personally I dont need their f#$%ing handouts.
Jam-
I can understand your frustrations. I've tried to see your points very carefully.
My point is, why do we need a seperate class to teach about contributions made by black americans? There is no question people of african descent made and are making great conrtibutions to this country and the world, but does the color of their skin require that their work be taught under a specific heading?
Do you think the current Ameican Histroy curriculm passes over the most prominant african americans?
I mean, the entire American space program was based upon the work of german immigrants. Do we need a special class to teach German-American history? How many american kids can tell you who Gunther Wendt was?
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Alright, first:
A) This particular case. We don't know the full story here. Yes, most would agree that all else being equal, a white teacher can teach Black History just as well as a black teacher.
This is what the local news is reporting, not what may actually be happening "on the ground". If you look into the story, you'll find that parents are upset because a popular teacher in a popular elective was being replaced because budget cuts and our absurd educational system that favors one degree in education over extensive experience and two masters degrees in the fields being taught made it such that he could teach American History and Black History, but not "Government".
What's the upshot of this? Well, a stink ensued, the Superintendent got the leverage to call the state and get more or less a guarantee that the teacher in question will get a temporary certification to teach government for two years.
B) The general rule. Come on guys how often do you see headlines like "School District strapped for cash tries to exploit loophole" or "Frustrated parents lobby for popular teacher"? or even "Appellate Judge makes outrageous decision in bid for new legislation"?
Instead, it's
"Oakland School District argues 'ebonics is a language'." and "Outrage that white man teaches Black History"
C) American History: white and black. Should our history even be about the deeds of "great men"? Columbus discovered America? What about the people who were already there?
The history of North America is the history of the clashing and blending of peoples from all over the world. BUt as it's usually told, it's a bunch of boring white guys who get edgy when talking about native americans and blacks. And what happens in the schools is a small part of the "history lesson" we all receive. throughout our culture the non-European influences are constantly downplayed. Until this situation changes, we could use classes like this to complete an education that goes beyond reinforcing stereotypes.
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Muck... Its just a class... Its not forced on anyone. Its is an elective. Why not teach german history? If one was of german descent but born in america, why shouldnt they have the chance to learn what thier people did for this country? I am frustrated because knuckleheads make idiotic comments and changing my comments to make it seem like black history should replace american history. Segregation whos talking about that. You wanna know why there are all black schools? Cus back when the majority of them were built blacks werent allowed in the other colleges. The black colleges just still exist. I wonder how many white people really wanna go to a black college? Then the affirmative action comments which had nothing to do with the thread. Then comments like "the nasty whites" where did that come from? Why are people willing to take a foreign language class which was a requirement at my school but sooo against learning someone elses history?
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I'm not really sure why people are against it.
Personally, I like to believe that a standard history class would teach the contributions of all people, regardless of race.
I guess I live in a Utopian world, and get frustrated when somthing like this reminds me that we have a long way to go before we can really have unity.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Personally, I like to believe that a standard history class would teach the contributions of all people, regardless of race.
Exactly, the giveaway in this is statement:
"That person still has the advantage of the culture," said Williams, who is black. "They understand the nuances of the culture."
What does current culture have to do with history other than revising it?
And then theres this gem:
"How do you work through that when the person teaching it is the same type of person who did the enslaving?"
Same TYPE of person. This is a blatantly racist statement saying that if a non-black teaches black history that person is the type to enslave people.
Little old NZ is going through some similar 'issues'. And in our politcal overcorrectness we've 'revised' history somewhat. Follow our path and you won't like where it leads. Some Maori are pushing for seperate legal, governing, etc systems. In the past this was called apartheid. Its splitting our country, and encouraging racism from both sides and will never lead to any good.
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I think the problem is that this nation is a melting pot. Hispanics (where is hispain BTW?) and asians and others make up a larger segment than blacks yet all we hear is the crybaby black crap.
yu want elective classes for black or Scot or hispanic or Irish? fine... but only if you have paid for everything else and can afford it.
History... history is what it is. If you only have room for 2 sentences about the invention of the lightbulb then I would say that you better use them to talk about Edison. If you have a clasws on inventions and a week is devoted to the light bulb then you probly should mention everyone even remotely involved. with History in High school you only have time to hit the high spots.
I don't think anything important that was done (history wise) is being left out intentionally because of race. To insinuate that it is strikes me as being crybaby and dishonest. I find that I avoid dishonest crybabies and vote against anything that they may want.
lazs
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Also... I believe that anything that spike lee says is an intentional lie. I believe that rap "artists" hate their own race as much as they hate whites... I also believe that anyone can be a racist and that racism is the hate of a person simply because of his race.
I would say that there are more black racists than whites but I sympathize.. they are wrong but I can see why they would become such. I have no solutions. for now, I will simply avoid racists. I am too world weary to pander.
lazs
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Originally posted by jamusta
Oh and affirmative action is a tool used to equal the playing fields for all...
Oh BS, its legal racism. The ONLY determination is skin color and/or gender. Quals are always secondary. And congrats on not needing handouts.
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Do we need to import a Brit to teach British Literature?
A Hispanic to teach Spanish or Frenchman to teach French?
Are only Jews able to teach about the holocaust?
This list could get pretty long.
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As toad pointed out.... our bloated educational system and it's teachers union would like nothing better that the educational version of the tower of babel.
lazs
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I see having a constructive conversation on the subject is just impossible. Some off you are just to ignorant to open your eyes and see how things really are. America is so fair to everyone in your eyes. The thread has been hijacked from the original subject. I simply try to explain to one person what black history was and now its all about racism and reverse racism. We could not stay away from the childish remarks and have an adult type conversation. I want so badly to say what I honestly feel right now but will not... As of now I am offended and angry... Some of your remarks are whats wrong with america now..
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"and now its all about racism"
Are you kidding me, what part of that article is NOT about blatant racial discrimination and racism. Imagine for one single second the kind of NATIONAL outrage it would be if in 2003 a group of white parents wanted to barr a black teacher from teaching a european history class.
To me it is obvious your education at a "predominantly black" school suffered from a lack of diverse perspectives..
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Grunz we are passed that. we all agree its wrong. If you would read most of the post you would see that it has turned into a discussion about the class itself.. So no im not kidding.. Shows what you know I have been on both sides of the fence so I went from a predominatly white schools to the predominatly black schools. So maybe its you who is lacking a diverse perspective..
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Is this thread still going?
Dam! Even I think these parents are nuts. Whats to discuss?
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MT now they are bashing the class itself...
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I beg you let this tread die a peaceful death:D
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Originally posted by jamusta
Grunz we are passed that. we all agree its wrong. If you would read most of the post you would see that it has turned into a discussion about the class itself.. So no im not kidding.. Shows what you know I have been on both sides of the fence so I went from a predominatly white schools to the predominatly black schools. So maybe its you who is lacking a diverse perspective..
LOL, you ever attended classes in sf bay area schools in the past decade? There isnt a more diverse education environment experience anywhere in america, perhaps the world...
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Well of course there is a seperate line of historical study that pertains more to the Black experience... how can you argue against that? It doesn't replace standard historical study, it augments it.
Now move along... nothing to see here... just a dead thread with a blanket over its face.
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MT thats all I have been trying to say....
And grunz not in the last decade no but when I went to school in the hayward hills it wasnt like it is now....
I am done now....
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No problem with a seperate black history class if..... there is funding and every other ethnic group has the same opportunity to have a seperate history. I really think that hispanic history is at least as important to the U.S. as black history for example. If you only have "history" and "black history" offered then you have no right to get upset when people point out the racism involved in the concept... you have no right to play the racism card when people point out how silly that is and how.... racist. Also... If I am hiring an engineer I would want the one who took 30 or 40 extra science classes instead of the one who took 30 or 40 extra "black" classes or gay classes or pottery making or tiedye shirt making or ...
Why couldn't we simply have an extensive library and allow everyone in school to use it? Perhaps one term paper could be on whatever "culture" in American history the student wanted it to be on after he did the research... bet they would learn more.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
If I am hiring an engineer I would want the one who took 30 or 40 extra science classes instead of the one who took 30 or 40 extra "black" classes or gay classes or pottery making or tiedye shirt making or ...
Sorry, Affirmative Action will not allow the use of common sense in the hiring of indivduals to private firms. Your post and IP address have been recorded and sent to top officials at AA. Have a nice day! ;)
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My grand daughter is half "hispanic" (whatever that means).... I can see why she needs to know about history. If she were to study any extra history I would think that black history would be less interesting to her than "hispanic" history... as a bonus... "hispanic" history would actually be useful and be a large part of the American historical experiance. When talking about railroads, asian history should probly be touched on.
"Black history" what a bunch of crybabies.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
My grand daughter is half "hispanic" (whatever that means).... I can see why she needs to know about history. If she were to study any extra history I would think that black history would be less interesting to her than "hispanic" history... as a bonus... "hispanic" history would actually be useful and be a large part of the American historical experiance. When talking about railroads, asian history should probly be touched on.
"Black history" what a bunch of crybabies.
lazs
Lazs, my wife is half white, half hispanic. I asked her what she thought of the whole history issue and her reply, "History sucks." :D
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I'm all for 'black history' as long as all other ethnic groups are represented in similar electives.
Although, in most of the history classes I went to we never really discussed the race of the person. sometimes if they immigrated here you would get hints ( "he immigrated from Germany in his 20's", a fairly safe bet he was white)
but nobody sat up there and said " ‘poor Richards almanac’ was written by Ben Franklin. A white man "
basically we studied what happened the names of the key players and what they contributed.
when race was mentioned it usually was to point out that the person was of a minority group. I found the mentioning of the race of the person kinda condescending and insulting to the man (sort of like 'he accomplished these great things in spite of his race'. instead of letting his deeds speak for him, and ignoring the irrelevant)
I'd think a special class in black history would be an amplified version of this. if I felt my race (or ethnic group, gender, religious group) wasn't fairly represented, my push would be to point out people who where overlooked, the greatness of their contributions and have it included in the regular history class.
having a regular history class and a separate class for black history would tend to give the impression that the historical contribution of blacks(or others) couldn't compete to stand out in a regular class and need a special class oriented just on them for their contributions to be noticed (not true at , but that is the impression I’d expect people to take from the situation).
to me a special class for black history while not providing them for all the other groups gives the appearance of the black contribution as sort of a 'special Olympics of history', if I was black I imagine I'd be terribly offended.
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I think that learning about US history through examining diverse cultural perspectives could be a good thing for education. Im still not sure if creating seperate versions of US history will better prepare the young students for their futures but thats a matter for the educators decide. I think a semester or year long project based on minority studies would be a fair idea to impliment. Basically you study your comon US history, then you also have to turn in a long report based on your chosen minority history, due at the end of the semester or year. Thats what I would do if I were a teacher, to the dispair of all my students, f*k, more homework!
Course that report should be like at least 25% of your overall grade for HS US history.
Most important thing I think is to stay on the same page in class.
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American history? Two, three hundred years? Seems to me you could fit it all in, white, black whatever you want. Try doing history in an average European country. 1000 years shall we say, not to mention world history on top of that.
It seem to me that this argument is not so much about teaching or history as about current politics and racism and the way some Americans seem to get themselves so contorted over this issue. America is a country of amazing contrasts, absurd political correctness and absurd prejudice. Meanwhile life goes on as it always has for most normal middle of the road people.
History has always been used and abused for the purposes of the person teaching it at the time.
Interesting that this whole thread was started by a Swede and helped by Grunherz.
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...but thats a matter for the educators decide.
Mr. Coffee, that's the most dangerous statement in the entire post.:eek: