Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Leslie on August 01, 2003, 02:26:27 AM
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Well here goes, my first political post. Arrggghhhh, taxes.
Anyone here have any feelings one way or another about it? Is this going to hurt or help Alabama, and how so?
Gov. Riley is planning a $1.2 billon tax on the citizens of Alabama, supposedly to augment education in the state. The vote is for Sept. 9th. Yet the ballot does not specify this tax will be used for education, but rather, it is to go into the Rainy Day Fund...to be used by politicians as they see fit.
I am for education, but I will vote the way the ballot is worded, "no" because of the wording of the ballot, i.e the money may or may not be used for the Reading Initiative. There is supposed to be an accountability committee appointed to oversee the spending. My question is, how much authority do they have to enforce the education spending?
One thing I'm concerned with is, the property tax on timberland will be based on current value, and not current use. Imo, this will cause timber companies to pass the taxes along to hunters, who pay this tax. Leases will double for the hunters, thus effectively shutting down hunting in the state...a multi million dollar business here.
Will land owners choose to develop land previously used for hunting leases? That means cutting down trees to put in neighborhoods, out in the middle of nowhere. What if all land owners started doing this? If the hunting leases double, how much business will Alabama lose? Hunting could become closer to being the sport of kings here in Alabama, because of the cost involved. I tell ya, it ain't cheap now; $10 per acre for good hunting property, and that's a bargain.
If there was a guarantee, some of this tax money would be used for education, I would vote for it. The way I see it, the wording on the ballot needs to be changed before I will vote higher taxes. I do not want this tax money going to fat cat politicians and their rainy day fund.
Reword the ballot to say some of this tax money will be used for education. I'm not convinced, and I don't buy it, the way it is worded now. So far, the only arguments I've read from supporters of this new tax, say, we'll still have the lowest property tax in the nation. Or college professors have their say by denigrating the Christian Coalition, saying they are stepping out of bounds by being involved in politics, and then saying they are not doing the work of Jesus. Evidently they don't know the CC is a political special interest group by their own admission, and don't involve themselves with charity work churches do.
What really puts up a red flag for me is, on the website, Gov. Riley refers to the state of affairs in Alabama as a crisis, yet wants to raise taxes during this economic crisis. Threats abound that football and band programs will be cut out, (they've used that one for the past 5 years trying to raise tax), police will be cut back, prisoners will be let out of prison in droves, the elderly will lose their medical drug payment relief, etc... Ad nauseum.
Well, I've had my rant. Thanks for listening, and I am interested in what you have to say. Guess this topic mainly concerns Alabamians, but I'm open to opinion for anyone who cares about the subject.
Les
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I'll prolly vote for it. I'm sick of having to provide the school with materials every year. Here in bama we have to send (for each child, I have three) a few packs of toilet paper, about 5 hundred sheets of typing paper, hand cleaner, glass cleaner, $20 "donation" to the school. Much more, just can't think of the rest. They're always having some stupid "raffle" or "sale". They send the kids home trying to see who can sell the most crap. They don't just ask them to, they offer these big rewards for the kid that sells the most. A few years ago I found my son who was in first grade at the time, counting out his collection of pennies, so he could make a donation and try to win some "prize". That was the last straw. Now when they come home with some BS to sell, I take it up and am sure it's turned in with not one "sale". The school my kids go to is very nice, all neat and clean, good teachers, no portable classrooms or anything, they're just always trying to gouge the parents/family for $. When I was a kid we just had to bring stuff like scissors, crayons, pencils, folders, etc. Stuff only for ourselves. Nowadays they want us to supply the school with cleaning materials etc. Complete bull. if this bill passes I won't be donating jack squat in the future.
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Thanks for your reply HB. I don't have kids in school, but I remember the sales items for fund raisers, back in '70. We sold candy products that only kids could eat. My favorite one was a one pound can of a gold colored, pillow shaped crunchy on the outside, peanut butter and chocolate on the inside confectionary. Darn it was good. That and Goo Goo Clusters, chocolate covered peanut turtles. I must have eaten $200 worth of that stuff!!!
Anyway, I understand about selling stuff to raise funds for school. I think it puts much pressure on parents to buy the junk. It's not right to peer pressure kids on their door-to-door sales ability. Sales is very hard work, and not for children. Usually the parents end up buying the quota after the child encounters the real world of sales. It's humbling for adults, and probably humiliating for the children. I disagree with the concept, at least as far as fund raising. It does teach about the real world, and is valuable in that sense.
Les
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i dont know why this hasnt been said yet but, who gives a **** about alabama. and what do you expect from the state with the worst education in the country.
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Check Oregon's school system lately?
We're not exactly top of the heap... or at least we don't get what we pay for.
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Originally posted by hblair
I'll prolly vote for it. I'm sick of having to provide the school with materials every year. Here in bama we have to send (for each child, I have three) a few packs of toilet paper, about 5 hundred sheets of typing paper, hand cleaner, glass cleaner, $20 "donation" to the school. Much more, just can't think of the rest. They're always having some stupid "raffle" or "sale". They send the kids home trying to see who can sell the most crap. They don't just ask them to, they offer these big rewards for the kid that sells the most. A few years ago I found my son who was in first grade at the time, counting out his collection of pennies, so he could make a donation and try to win some "prize". That was the last straw. Now when they come home with some BS to sell, I take it up and am sure it's turned in with not one "sale". The school my kids go to is very nice, all neat and clean, good teachers, no portable classrooms or anything, they're just always trying to gouge the parents/family for $. When I was a kid we just had to bring stuff like scissors, crayons, pencils, folders, etc. Stuff only for ourselves. Nowadays they want us to supply the school with cleaning materials etc. Complete bull. if this bill passes I won't be donating jack squat in the future.
I have to do that in Texas, buy tissue, dry erase markers, erasers, candy drives (mandatory) and we have the Lottery for that very purpose.
Vote "NO" please. Anything giving more access to your pocket by politicians is a bad idea I think.
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I watched our governor backpedal faster than a NFL Defensive Back. It was this morning in a live television interview concerning his reasons for the proposed increase. He never once came out and said that the money would be going to education. Lets just say that now my taxes are bearable but in 2004 when this plan would go into effect IF PASSED. That I would be paying an additional $3500 in taxes for the year. That would seriously effect my current household income and would be a driving force in me moving my family out of the area that we live in. Which is one of the top school systems in the nation and is already expensive to live in but would be super expensive if this passes.
Ballot Language:
"Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of
Alabama of 1901, establishing the Alabama Excellence
Initiative Fund which may be used to fund programs including,
but not limited to, the furtherance of excellence in public
education, college scholarships, health care benefits for
senior citizens and job training programs to attract new high
paying jobs and otherwise provide for distributing state tax
revenues; to adjust income and property taxes; to establish
the General Fund Rainy Day Account; to provide for the
replenishment of the General Fund Rainy Day Account and the
Education Trust Fund Rainy Day Account."
"Proposed by Act 2003-78."
"Yes ( ) No ( )."
Here is the propaganda website:
Proposed Tax Plan for Alabama. (http://www.abetteralabama.org/plan.shtml)
BTW I didn't vote for "Taxation 'Hoss Bob" and I damn sure am not going to vote for this tax increase.
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Oh man, I could start writing now and still not finish before my shift ended. Maybe I could just summarize the way I feel about Rileys new tax plan with a gesture...
Yeah that should do it.
No new taxes, first find out where the money I sent last year went, then we'll talk about it. And when that time comes leave my federal tax cut out of the plan, That's a ploy used by the finance guy at most car lots.
I could throw a rock from my house in one of three directions and watch it land in one of 3 of the best school systems in this area, Mt Brook, Vestavia Hills and Irondale. Good or not they still need help along with the rest of our schools here. When they come up with something that benefits the schools I'll think about it. Until then I'll continue to fork over 15k a year for my kids to attend a private school, voucher or no voucher.
Throwing more money at a system which does not work now isn't going to help anyone.
Footnote: Looks like there are 3 AH players in the Birmingham area, sounds like enough for a mini con! :D
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Politicians will always say they want to raise your taxes for some touchy-feely reason: helping old widows; saving puppies; education. But once they get the money, it's theirs to do with as they please. All you have to do is look at what governments did with all the tobacco lawsuit money. None of it went to pay for cancer medical bills, it just went into the general budget and the politicians spent it on whatever they thought would get them re-elected. Always say no to any tax increase, it's that simple.
In the old days all it took to teach a kid to read was an ugly old maid, a black board, and a yardstick. I don't see why that has changed.
ra
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This thread bores me to tears.
So - what has Alabama's contribution to this great country of our's been other than mud and several thousand Klan chapters?
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
This thread bores me to tears.
So - what has Alabama's contribution to this great country of our's been other than mud and several thousand Klan chapters?
You are the perfect liberal.
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You guys are kidding about the toilet paper right? Am I hooked? That just cant be right
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we have a lot of that crap going on here (and yes people from Portland shouldn't point fingers at other peoples education system)
anytime they want a tax increase the first thing they hit is schools, followed by care for the elderly.
then I that don't get you to cough up more cash they start doing stuff like saying we can't afford to run the courts so we wont prosecute the smaller property crimes. and they'll put that on the news so all the little punks know that there will be no prosecution
oh, you'll still do time for assault if you catch them and beat their prettythang, but the thieves and vandals get a free pass. also they still have the money to go around and bust people for victimless crimes, things like growing weed which virtually nobody around here gives a damn about, that mission is fully funded.
the idea is they cut the stuff they know will hit the taxpayer the hardest to extort more money.
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Bah! those tax an' spend republicans!
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For those that dont know, I am an Alabamian ( a very proud one at that).:D
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
This thread bores me to tears.
So - what has Alabama's contribution to this great country of our's been other than mud and several thousand Klan chapters?
I fail to see your point aside from the fact that many thousands of Alabamians have given their life so you might have the freedom to wonder exactly what our states contribution has been to this country.
The Klan was strong in nearly every state in this country. Its not just a "southern thing" and never was just a southern thing. If I remember correctly according to some people I know Alabama has always had a very strong and small contingent of "Klan" members. Just like every other state in this union of ours.
As for public schools in Alabama...only if you live in the areas previously mentioned by Twist and in a few others like Homewood, Hoover, Pelham, Huntsville will your child get a good public school education.
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
This thread bores me to tears.
So - what has Alabama's contribution to this great country of our's been other than mud and several thousand Klan chapters?
Whos this idiot? I've never seen a klansman except on tv when they show those arian nation dudes in the midwest.
To try to answer your question earlkonig, The saturn5 rocket that put man on the moon. Jesse owens, Carl lewis, Hank Aaron, and your favorite, George Wallace.
Where do you live?
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Originally posted by hblair
Whos this idiot? I've never seen a klansman except on tv when they show those arian nation dudes in the midwest.
To try to answer your question earlkonig, The saturn5 rocket that put man on the moon. Jesse owens, Carl lewis, Hank Aaron, and your favorite, George Wallace.
Where do you live?
Yep, and my (deceased) brother was a rocket scientist for NASA beginning in 1962. He designed man-rated rocket engines for Saturns 1 and 5, and the Shuttle. Werner von Braun used to live up the road from my brother's house in Huntsville on Navy Cove Road.
Interesting story about von Braun. When he promised Pres. Kennedy that NASA would safely deliver a round trip ticket for men to the moon and back within a ten year deadline, NASA officials practically crapped their pants. They thought it was impossible to do within ten years. Von Braun made this statement to the Pres. without consulting NASA first, and really put them on the spot. As my brother said, everytime a man-rated rocket does what it's supposed to do, it's a "miracle" and NOT standard operating proceedure.
During WWII, Mobile's population increased dramatically...mostly engineers from other locations. They remained here with their families after the war.
I've lived here all my life, and the only klansmen I've seen or heard about were on TV or in the paper. I don't think they're very active here.
Les
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vouchers! no taxes for education! down with public schools!
can ya tell my youngest is going to be a senior in HS next year? I don't want my taxes going to educate someone else's rugrat! :)
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Does florida have an income tax?
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Florida does not have an income tax. They have a small tax on paper equity (stocks, bonds etc.) but it does not kick in until somewhere in the low hundred thousands. Might be more or less then that but I am not sure, A Florida resident could tell you more.
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no state tax here - just squeakin bout taxes :)
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
So - what has Alabama's contribution to this great country of our's been other than mud and several thousand Klan chapters?
Nike Ajax and Hercules, Redstone, Hawk, Tow, Stinger, Pershing, Patriot…in fact virtually every one of the Army’s fielded missle systems was developed, managed, and supported by Redstone Arsenal, in Huntsville, AL.
My dad was a solid propellant physicist there for 30 yr. so I'm kinda biased.
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Originally posted by myelo
Nike Ajax and Hercules, Redstone, Hawk, Tow, Stinger, Pershing, Patriot…in fact virtually every one of the Army’s fielded missle systems was developed, managed, and supported by Redstone Arsenal, in Huntsville, AL.
My dad was a solid propellant physicist there for 30 yr. so I'm kinda biased.
ohhh, explosives! I love explosives!
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Originally posted by -ammo-
ohhh, explosives! I love explosives!
As my dad would say,
"Huh? You gonna have to speak up son.
...And somebody get that phone."
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I can imagine. I have been working on Flightlines for 14 years. I have also lit off a few shots myself. More than one danger to explosives.