Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: davidpt40 on August 02, 2003, 11:03:16 PM
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Just saw some Korean War footage of what appeared to be M1 Carbines firing fully automatic. I thought they were all semi-automatic.
In one clip the soldier firing the weapon had his hand underneath the magazine (apparently holding it in). Did the M1 have trouble with the magazine falling out?
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Heartbreak Ridge?
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Yeah Grun. I did some searching and found that it was most likely an M2 carbine I saw firing. It had semi and auto capabilities.
The opening footage of Heartbreak Ridge is its only good quality. The rest of the movie is too cheezy :)
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Originally posted by davidpt40
In one clip the soldier firing the weapon had his hand underneath the magazine (apparently holding it in). Did the M1 have trouble with the magazine falling out?
I've never heard of that problem before. However, some people prefer to shoot with the off-hand close or at the rifle's center of gravity - which is usually around the magazine.
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He may ave been trying to counter the muzzle climb.
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m1's can be made to fire fully auto quite easily. never heard of any problem with the mag falling out. actually you don't hear about much of any kind of trouble with the m1.
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A buddy of mine who was in Korea said they routinely would wrap a string around the butt of the rifle, the trigger, and the bolt in some fashion to convert both the M1 and M1 Carbine to full auto.
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The only problem with M1's of old was the old "M1 Thumb" problem. The bolt would release while loading the "clip" and catch the loaders thumb in it.
MiniD
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That was on the Garand and not the carbine correct?
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Originally posted by Mini D
The only problem with M1's of old was the old "M1 Thumb" problem. The bolt would release while loading the "clip" and catch the loaders thumb in it.
MiniD
"M1 Thumb" is caused by the bolt slamming forward, ONLY because the weapon is poorly maintained, or the retainer was not fully engaged when sliding the bolt back. Otherwise a properly operated and operating M1 Garand is not going to give anyone "M1 Thumb".
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M2 carbine was very reliable. It is said that they were highly prized as captured weapons by the germans. M1/2 round has about the same muzzle energy as a .357 mag. Oh.. Magazines are very reliable as is the gun. All M1 carbine, Garrand, M14 and their clones such as the mini 14 are dead reliable.
lazs
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m2 is the full auto m1 carbine the "full auto" version of the m1 was the m14 really. probly the best all around gun us military ever had. but heavy by todays cap gun is enough standards. but im not shure if they had m14s in korea. from what i hear they got acess to the stuff left over from ww2 and little more.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
"M1 Thumb" is caused by the bolt slamming forward, ONLY because the weapon is poorly maintained, or the retainer was not fully engaged when sliding the bolt back. Otherwise a properly operated and operating M1 Garand is not going to give anyone "M1 Thumb".
LOL! Amazing how that statement can pretty much be applied across the board.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Bodhi
"M1 Thumb" is caused by the bolt slamming forward, ONLY because the weapon is poorly maintained, or the retainer was not fully engaged when sliding the bolt back. Otherwise a properly operated and operating M1 Garand is not going to give anyone "M1 Thumb".
M1 thumb
when the bolt on a empty M1 Garand (as on most semi-autos) is pulled to the rear it will lock in the open position,
To release/close the bolt on a enpty M1, (after inspection/cleaning), the normal method is to place the edge of the right hand on the bolt operating handle and move the bolt slightly to the rear at the same time putting the right thumb in the magazine well to depress the spring follower to release the bolt lock.
Then wile holding the follower down you let the bolt come forward, if you don't get your thumb out of the magazine in time the bolt will smash it into the back of the chamber, and you will have a "M1 thumb".
most Marines learn fairly quickly and only get caught once or twice.
USMC
62-65
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M1 carbine did not have good penetration abilities. There are a few accounts of the bullets not even having enough power to shoot through the heavy winter clothing of Chinese soldiers.
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m1 grand and m1 both great guns,,,,m1 grand bigger round preferred for its take down power,,,m1 carbine wanted for how light it is,,,,if ya ever pick up a m1 carbine you will be amazed,,,it allmost feals like a beebee gun,,lol some gi's loved the carbine over the m1,,and same can be said about the m1 thumb,,,,plus the m1 cabine had clips instead of strip clips,,,,they both had there good and bads
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I used to use a .30 M1 carbine for shooting feral pigs in heavy scrub.
Loses all accuracy and killing/knockdown power past about 150 yds (well, not ALL, but after 150~200yds, you are better off saving the round), but for what I was using it for, it was unbeatable.
Simple, easy to maintain and clean, rapid and effective follow up shots, and plenty of knockdown power at short range......all in all, a beautiful little weapon.
We Aussies lost the right to own or use any semi auto longarms after the Port Arthur massacre a few years back and I had to hand it, and several other weapons in to be destroyed.
The fact that I was compensated for more than 5 times the true market value of the weapons I handed in did little to make it any easier.
As a side note, the Aust. Govt. have now banned private ownership of handguns allso.
Anyone want a continent? theres only about 20 million of us here, and the heaviest armament the people own would be a steak knife or an axe. :(
PS never had any trouble at all with the magazines, in fact they were pretty good comparitively speaking.
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I used to use a .30 M1 carbine for shooting feral pigs in heavy scrub. I would have never tried that, I always figured it wouldnt knock them down. Hell, Im afraid to use my AR or AK on a pig. I use my M-14 or G3 for them. Pigs scare me:D Thanks for the info and sorry you lost your fire arms
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Australia, land of the outback and the Crocodile Hunter, has been pussified? Oh my, this is worse than I thought.
Maybe I'm being a redneck American, but wouldn't all your outback-livin' people lobby pretty hard to keep their weapons? Seems like there'd be a significant portion of the population that actually has a use for them.
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And I thought it was bad that the U.S. was phasing out automatic weapons!
So Australians cannot own any weapons? Even shotguns?
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Looks to me like they lost semi-autos and handguns.
Pump shotguns and bolt-action rifles are (I hope) still ok.
That's how I read it, at least.
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I thought they lost it all, even the target pistols and rifles. Wasnt there a story on how some olypmic competition shooters couldnt practice in Britain or Australia?
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It was in the UK that all weapons were banned - some shotgun's and rifle ownership is still allowed - mostly for farm use/culling.
Currently I think the minimum term for illegal possession of a firearm is 5 years.
An no we're not too worried about being invaded by anyone.
I used to own a Mossberg 8 shot pump, a CZ 75 9mm and a Galil 5.56mm Assault Rifle - not having guns and not having the need to have guns makes for a safer more civilized society.
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my sympathies blue... I allways thought the aussies were too rugged and individualistic to go for that womanly hand wringing crap. Heard your crime rate shot up too.
M1 and M14 are not the same... M1 uses a 110 grain slug at abut 1900 fps for a muzzel energy around 500. M14 uses a 3.08 round of 150 grains at around 2500 fps. M14 is a modified M1 Garrand not an enlarged M1 carbine.
lazs
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Originally posted by Slash27
I used to use a .30 M1 carbine for shooting feral pigs in heavy scrub. I would have never tried that, I always figured it wouldnt knock them down. Hell, Im afraid to use my AR or AK on a pig. I use my M-14 or G3 for them. Pigs scare me:D Thanks for the info and sorry you lost your fire arms
I want to go after a pig this year with my CVA Kentucky Long Rifle!
But I will have a back up 44 just in case :)
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m14 and m1 garand both use 3.08 caliber rounds of about the same weight.
my understanding of it is 3.08 is update of 30/06 (30caliber/usgoverment1906) to chamber better in autoloading rifles (somthing the30/06 was never designed to do) useing the same exact bullet diam and weight for almost exactly the same balistics. just a tougher thicker casing on the same bullet. slightly more propelent capacity in the .308.
all from memory get your books out.
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Most Garands I've fired have been 30/06. And the case is very different than a .308. 30/06 definately having the larger of the two cases.
MiniD
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I know the Fal a weapon wich i used in the army was easily made automatic.
Just remove 1 part.
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.30 Carbine:
Length:
42.50 mm (1.673 in)
Weigth:
12.8 g (198 gr)
Case:
Length:
32.84 mm (1.293 in)
Weigth:
4.6 g (71 gr)
Material:
Brass
Bullet:
Length:
17.50 mm (0.689 in)
Weigth:
7.1 g (110 gr)
Diameter:
7.82 mm (.308 in)
(http://www.accuratereloading.com/30-06s.jpg)
.30-06
Bullet Diameter
0.308
Case Length
2.494
Rim Diameter
0.473
Total Length
3.34
(http://www.accuratereloading.com/308win.jpg)
.308 Winchester (7.62x39)
Bullet Diameter
0.308
Case Length
2.015
Total Length
2.810
All three use the same diamter bullet, however they are very different calibers. Using a 180 grain bullet, the .30-06 will average around 2750 FPS, while the .308 will average around 2400 FPS using the same weight bullet.
M1 Garands were all issued in .30-06 and the M14 was .308. Both different from the semi-auto M1 Carbine and its full-auto version, the M2 Carbine.
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I'll post some 30/06 vs .308 pics tonight. Its hard to tell when they are scaled different. I'll also check and see how much different a .30 is from a 30/30 (seems they were pretty close in size if I recall) and maybe throw a 30/30 round in for comparison too.
Hehehe... for grins I'll throw a .50 and 7mm STW in there too. :D
MiniD
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they all are .30 cal, it's only the size of the casing and the combustion chamber that varies. for the most part you can freely interchange projectiles from one round to another.
the exception being NEVER load spire-point projectiles on a 30/30 case.
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At least not one with a tubular magazine
;)
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dolf vader: m14 and m1 garand both use 3.08 caliber rounds of about the same weight.
... almost exactly the same balistics. ...slightly more propelent capacity in the .308.
.308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) case capacily is considerably smaller than a 30-06 Springfield case - by 20%.
.308: 2.8 inches long, holds 54 grains of water
30-06: 3.34 inches long, holds 69 grains of water
The military were able to use a smaller cartrige and achieve similar ballistics in M14 with .308 as in M1 Garand with 30-06 due to the advances made in the propellant since 30-06 was introduced.
Obviously, you can stuff a 30-06 case full of the modern powder and if your chamber handles the pressure, you get much more performance then you get from .308.
About shooting the semi-auto rifles in full-auto mode - one can use a "burp-fire" technique to do that, though the accuracy would suffer a lot...
miko
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Originally posted by john9001
M1 thumb
when the bolt on a empty M1 Garand (as on most semi-autos) is pulled to the rear it will lock in the open position,
To release/close the bolt on a enpty M1, (after inspection/cleaning), the normal method is to place the edge of the right hand on the bolt operating handle and move the bolt slightly to the rear at the same time putting the right thumb in the magazine well to depress the spring follower to release the bolt lock.
Then wile holding the follower down you let the bolt come forward, if you don't get your thumb out of the magazine in time the bolt will smash it into the back of the chamber, and you will have a "M1 thumb".
most Marines learn fairly quickly and only get caught once or twice.
USMC
62-65
Nice to hear from someone else who knows :)
culero
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Looks to me like they lost semi-autos and handguns.
Pump shotguns and bolt-action rifles are (I hope) still ok.
That's how I read it, at least.
Bolt action rifles are OK, if you have a licence, and a signature from a property owner stating you can shoot on his/her property.
Lever action is out.
Shotguns are OK too, but not the pump action or semi-auto variety. Over and under/side by side double barrel, single barrel/single shot or single barrel bolt action are it for shotguns.
Handguns of any form are out.
And yeah, we did lobby pretty hard to keep 'em, because as someone mentioned, these are tools out here, not toys.
The bit about bolt actions being OK with permission from landowners is about as far as that argument got us.
A bloke named Martin Bryant ran amok with an SKS in Tasmania, at a place called Port Arthur a few years back, killing 30 odd people, including several women and kids ,the reaction from the Govt was immediate and brutal......everybody lost their guns.
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That stinks Blue.
.308 Winchester (7.62x39) 7.62x39 is not .308, it is the round for the AK-47 and SKS. 7.62x51 is .308 or 7.62 NATO
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I agree, it stinks.
Should have been the opposite way around and made it mandatory to carry in my opinion, but apparently I'm in the minority.
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OK... from left to right: .50 cal, 7mm STW, 30/06, .308, .223
(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/50to223.GIF)
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If you cut off the necked down portion of the .223 in the photo and seated a .308 round nose slug of about 100 grains you would have a 30 carbine round (approx) for size comparisson.
lazs