Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on August 04, 2003, 03:18:52 PM
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Saw the new 7 series and Z4 cruising around lately. Styling makes me think of one word - Rice. A lot of bling and non-functional doodads. I liked it better when the Japanese copied BMW styling, not the other way around.
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Most bimmerfiles have had gagging reflexes since the 7'er came up with the Bangle-design. Its gross. Thats why I'm looking for used. Since so many car manufacturers trying to look like BMW's in years following a design change, I think its BMW's way of tricking the competition into designing something real ugly, then switching their design later on down the road! ;)
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I hope they leave the 3 Series (and the M3) untouched, it's perfect the way it is right now!
Daniel
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Bangle-butt aside, here is the new 6-series in a coupe (4-door sedans are for mothers)
(http://website.lineone.net/~richard.stern/new6series.jpg)
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Wow all the enormous girth and road-hugging weight of a luxobarge, but without the utility of 4 doors. W00t!
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Originally posted by funkedup
Wow all the enormous girth and road-hugging weight of a luxobarge, but without the utility of 4 doors. W00t!
Is that sarcasm!?:mad: :p (They're coming out with the 4-door Mother version 6 months after this rolls off assembly line)
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Yeah I've hated gianormous coupes ever since I drove my friend's 74 Thunderbird. I'm amazed how they can build 20 foot long 5000 pound cars that only fit two people comfortably. Detroit finally stopped, but it seems to be the national sport over in Krautland. :)
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The realistic slimmed down version pics are here:
http://www.carenthusiast.com/news.html?article=58
Still has that Bangle butt, but not as prominent.
Not exactly a slouch for speed ;)
0-62 mph time of just 5.6 seconds and a top speed electronically limited to 155 mph. This engine produces a maximum power output of 333 bhp and develops 332 lb.ft (450 Nm) of torque at 3,600 rpm.
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I've heard that the 6-coupe will weigh in at 3500lb and put out about 520hp!
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Bangle-butt aside, here is the new 6-series in a coupe (4-door sedans are for mothers)
(http://website.lineone.net/~richard.stern/new6series.jpg)
Hmmm... not as cab forward and a different front clip... but....
(http://350zx.com/newz/z-35.jpg)
They did steal the fenders from someone else. It does seem as if they are losing some of their old originality... and copying various aspects from other manufacturers as opposed to the other way around.
MiniD
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That Nissan ressembles the Audi TT a lot!
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Hmmm... never really thought the 350zx looked much like a tt:
(http://www.audiusa.com/common/cma/homepage/images/tt32_v1_380x190.jpg)
I guess the nose does a bit. But then... its not unusual for the Japanese to steal design ideas from European car manufacturers. The main discussion was in regards to BMW having to resort to those tactics as of late.
MiniD
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I can't remember seeing any other car that looks like the new BMW's. Can you?
With the X5, Z4, Z3, M8 and 6 series posted... yes I can.
They used to be original. That seems to be going by the wayside.
BTW.. you do know that TT coupe was released after the prototype 350Z... right?
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I remember it being anounced early 2000.
MiniD
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Actually, the TT was released in 99 and the 350ZX was began in 99.
MiniD
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A little more checking. The TT debuted in 1995 with the release of the coupe in 1998 and the roadster in 1999. The 350ZX was began in 1999 and debuted in early 2000.
MiniD
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
I hope they leave the 3 Series (and the M3) untouched, it's perfect the way it is right now!
Daniel
The M3 needs to revisit its roots - its too similar to the base 3 series IMO. Let me see some old school E30 flares and a diet and Ill wait in line.
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Most Japanese super-cars have their styling designed by Europeans. The new Impreza was designed by an Englishman, for instance.
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2004 BMW line up, I don't find any of these too radical of a change really…I guess it all depends on your perspective..
1 series (http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/images/bmwone3.JPG)
3 Series (http://comp.autosite.com/configurator/photos/200x100jpg/3-SERIE7.jpg)
M3 (http://www.velocityphotos.com//images/stk/2004/bm2004m3csl01.jpg)
5 Series (http://autos.msn.com/merismus/gallery%5Cc443344a.jpg)
M5 (http://www.autotraderextreme.com/BMW/2003-BMW-M5.jpg)
X5 (http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/34323.jpg)
7 Series (http://www.top100musclecarsites.com/BMW/2003-BMW-7-Series.jpg)
BMW Model Year 2004 Changes
Woodcliff Lake, New Jersey, August 1, 2003. The changes to the 2004 BMW model line-up are listed below by Series and by model. Please Note: This is a preliminary document and is subject to change. Model equipment, standard and optional features for some models have not yet been finalized. Please check with us as to the latest status prior to publication.
7 Series
745i and 745Li
* Multi-Spoke alloy wheels (Style 94) will replace Double-Spoke alloy wheels (Style 93) as the standard wheel, combined with all-season tires. Also available with all-season run-flat tires (a no-charge option).
All 7 Series Models
* Adaptive headlights, which "steer" the headlights into roadway curves, available as an option.
* Sirius Satellite Radio will be available as an accessory.
6 Series
* An all-new 6 Series will be available in the Spring of 2004.
5 Series
* An all-new 5 Series Sedan will be available at the end of September.
3 Series
All 3 Series Models
* 6-Speed SMG (Sequential Manual Gearbox) Transmission will be available on most rear-wheel-drive 3 Series, when combined with the Sport Package as of 10/03 production. It will not be available with all-wheel-drive or the 330i Performance Package.
* Rain-sensing windshield wipers and automatic headlight control will become standard features on the Sedan and Sports Wagon - no longer part of the Premium Package (already standard on Coupes and Convertibles).
* Sirius Satellite Radio is available as an accessory.
325i and 325i Sports Wagon
* 5-spoke alloy wheel (Style 119) replaces 7-spoke alloy wheel (Style 96) in the Sport Package
* Bluetooth wireless hands-free cellular phone system will be available as an accessory, but not in combination with BMW Assist.
325xi and 325xi Sports Wagon
* 5-spoke alloy wheel (Style 137) replaces 20-spoke alloy wheel (Style 73) in Sport Package
* Bluetooth wireless hands-free cellular phone system will be available as an accessory, but not in combination with BMW Assist.
330i and 330xi
* Black headlight surrounds and grill will replace titan silver.
* Lower grill will be a combination of body color and black.
* 5-spoke alloy wheel (Style 137) replaces 20-spoke alloy wheel (Style 73) in Sport Package
* 330i Performance Package will be available with the optional 5-speed STEPTRONIC automatic transmission including Sport and Manual shift modes (does not include 330xi).
* Bluetooth wireless hands-free cellular phone system will be available as an accessory, but not in combination with BMW Assist.
325i and 330i - Coupe and Convertible (Available since March, 2003)
* Automatic headlight control standard (formerly optional with Premium Package)
* Revised front-end design
* Revised front and rear bumper contours
* Xenon headlights (low and high beams) now offered in combination with new Adaptive feature, which "steers" the headlights into roadway curves
* Revised taillight technology, incorporating BMW's innovative Adaptive Brakelights
* Revised wheel designs, both standard and optional
* Revised exterior colors
* Revised configuration climate-control panel
X5
All X5 Models
* X5 3.0i and X5 4.4i will receive an update, including exterior and styling changes, as well as a completely new all-wheel drive system (xDrive).
* Sirius Satellite Radio will be available as an accessory.
* Bluetooth wireless hands-free cellular phone system will be available as an accessory, but not in combination with BMW Assist.
X5 3.0i
* 6 Speed Manual Transmission will become standard.
X5 4.4i
* 6-Speed Automatic Transmission will become standard.
* New 4.4L Engine with VALVETRONIC and Fully Variable Intake Manifold
X5 4.6is
* Will be discontinued
X3
* An all-new X3 Sports Activity Vehicle will be available in early 2004.
Z8 and BMW ALPINA ROADSTER V8
* The Z8 has reached the end of its production cycle and will no longer be produced.
Z4 roadster
* Sirius Satellite Radio will be available as an accessory as of 10/03 production.
* Rain-sensing windshield wipers will become a standard feature.
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Last year's 7 series was a brutal departure from they stylish lines. Now they are brutalizing the 5 series too. :( The M5 still looks sweet.
They now look like the Nissan Altima with different nose clip and taillights.
MiniD
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Personally speaking, looks, style is not what sold me on BMW. It was handling. I was from the school of "people buy them for style, materialism"....then I drove one, changed my tune and managed to scrape some cash together right quick! (Although I've met alot of people that still do buy em for status symbols)
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Ah.. they do handle well... can't argue that. But their 3-7 series design from 1991 on was pretty timeless. Its something you began to expect from BMW. Then the new designs came out.
I'm glad they moved away from the 2.5l base and I love the 4.0 liter V8. Their rear suspension rules too. But damn... the new cars are downright ugly. The 6-series does look good. But original is not a term I'd aply to it.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Ah.. they do handle well... can't argue that. But their 3-7 series design from 1991 on was pretty timeless. Its something you began to expect from BMW. Then the new designs came out.
I'm glad they moved away from the 2.5l base and I love the 4.0 liter V8. Their rear suspension rules too. But damn... the new cars are downright ugly. The 6-series does look good. But original is not a term I'd aply to it.
MiniD
I pretty much agree with everything you said however I personally am more apt to drive an ugly car with great performance rather than a good looking car with sub-performance. (However, I'd look for a used 5 series before I bought a new one given the same engine)
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The 6-Series looks alot like the Chrysler Crossfire IMO.
My life after the Miata...
(http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/632003164042.jpg)
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Originally posted by nuchpatrick
The 6-Series looks alot like the Chrysler Crossfire IMO.
My life after the Miata...
(http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/632003164042.jpg)
Really!? take a look at this pic below and tell me if you still feel the same way(this is the production car, the pic I posted earlier was an early prototype)
(http://www.carenthusiast.com/bmw/bmw_6series2003_04_250.jpg)
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it is a little known fact that all current automotive styling is done the same way. A plastic model of a 1955 Chevy is put in an oven at varrying tempretures and times... the temp and melt time are closely guarded secrets of all the manufaturers but the japs seem to have the longest melt times/highest temps.
lazs
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Hrmm.. who's copying who these days.. It looks like a longer version of a Sebring Coupe.
I think I like the Pre-production 6. Lines look a bit more agressive.
Speaking of which.. howabout that new Benz-Mclaren SRL Whoa what a hot ride!!!
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ROTFLOL LAZS! Thats sig material! Good one! Tears...streaming...
Benz-Mclaren SRL (Drools...)
Don't say "Sebring" near me, it cause me to go into fits and breaking things (The 3-near accidents I've had the last couple years involved Sebrings...I swear those things breed like rats!)
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LOL, I'm tired of having close encounters with Lincon Navigators..
One SOB nearly put me into a guard rail :mad: My car may be small but ya know the two of us can't fit in the same lane..
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Originally posted by Mini D
A little more checking. The TT debuted in 1995 with the release of the coupe in 1998 and the roadster in 1999. The 350ZX was began in 1999 and debuted in early 2000.
MiniD
I think the 350Z looks like a cross between the Audi TT (Audi makes one heckuva LMP900 machine) and a Porsche 911 (Porsche makes one heckuva LMP GT machine), two very eye-catching cars. The original Z looked a lot like a cross between a Corvette and a Jaguar, so its not surprising that they'd take styling cues from other sports cars in the new iteration. I'm glad the Nissan boys went with the short-nose style rather than the long-nose design. I think the shorter nose is rather sharp.
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350Z = Wheres my Turbo?
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Hehehe... the 350Z has more HP than the 300ZX Twin Turbo... and its lighter too. If you put a turbo on it.... wow.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Hehehe... the 350Z has more HP than the 300ZX Twin Turbo... and its lighter too. If you put a turbo on it.... wow.
MiniD
Probably the best Z car made for power-to-weight ratio, except I'd probably favor the original Z240 for purchase.
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Screw the new 5 - give me an E34 M5 anyday. Classic styling and monster performance for a four door sedan... not bad for a 10 year old car.
(http://www.tuning-stereo.hu/lapok/2002_04/images/q3-BMW-M5.jpg)
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Screw the new 5 - give me an E34 M5 anyday. Classic styling and monster performance for a four door sedan... not bad for a 10 year old car.
Yep! Ditto.
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lol, that's pretty funny, Lazs.
I'm trying to figure out from the pictures just what you guys mean by Bangle-Butt... what's the criteria? (serious question)
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Originally posted by Dux
lol, that's pretty funny, Lazs.
I'm trying to figure out from the pictures just what you guys mean by Bangle-Butt... what's the criteria? (serious question)
Trunk lid. Chief designers name is Bangle.
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Gotcha... thanks. Was trying to "see" the bracelets and couldn't. :rolleyes:
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The 6 and 7 really impressed me. They really combine the exact amounts of style, beauty and agressiveness. I'm severely disappointed with the new 5 though, completely lacks the last quality which I find essential in any BMW.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Hehehe... the 350Z has more HP than the 300ZX Twin Turbo... and its lighter too. If you put a turbo on it.... wow.
MiniD
300Z TT had 300 hp though. They had a special edition around 1995 that had like 360 hp IIRC. And a lot better styling than the 350Z IMHO. Those were the salad days of USDM Japanese sports cars. 3rd generation RX-7, 3000GT VR-4, NSX, etc.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Hehehe... the 350Z has more HP than the 300ZX Twin Turbo... and its lighter too. If you put a turbo on it.... wow.
MiniD
The 300ZX TT had 300HP w/5 speed manual. 280HP with slush box. Weight was around 3300 +-100 pounds.
The 350Z has 287HP and weighs 3197 pounds.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
The 300ZX TT had 300HP w/5 speed manual. 280HP with slush box.
The 350Z has 287HP.
Edit:
300ZX turbo=300 hp and 3400 lbs.
Z350 =287hp and *4133 lbs. (I'll take the 300zx please)
*Edmunds data
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Tha weight cannot be right for the 350Z. I got my weight from the Nissan specifications listing curb weight.
The 300ZX TT weight varies depending on what year model (the later year models were a bit lighter due to changes in the rear steering system and the boost for it changed from hydraulic to electric). Also, slushy versus a manual made a difference.
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Hmmmm... was remembering a 275 HP TT for the 300ZX. 225hp for the non-turbo. Guess they bumped it up in the last years.
The 287hp for the 350Z is a starting point... with no turbo lag.
MiniD
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Mini I meant the 300Z 1990-1996, not eh 300ZX which was between the 300Z and the 280ZX.
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Oh never mind I guess they were both called 300ZX. Completely different cars though.
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You gotta wonder about Nissan's power claims though. 350Z claims 287 hp but it didn't run any quicker 0-60 and 1/4 in the magazine tests than a certain 227 hp sedan. Somebody is fibbing.
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Actually funked, you are correct. The 300ZX preceded the 300Z. The 300Z was the first Z to use twin turbos, the previous turbo modeled Z's used single turbos.
Anywho, the 350Z is not much of a straight line performer, but shines on the curvy tracks. It's slower to speed, but does not need to slow down much. Excellent suspension and steering geometry combined with good weight balance allow the driver to push the envelope with confidence.
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Thank you for the Nissan advertisement. SPAMMER, BAN HIM! :D
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Dang,..it does read a bit like an ad. I was just typing along my thoughts on it.
Overall,..I really dislike the styling of it. Better?
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Yes much better. They are nice cars though. I keep trying to talk my friend (he has a fully restored 1971 240Z) into getting one.
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Originally posted by funkedup
(he has a fully restored 1971 240Z).
That was the cat's meow back then..I remember at age 13 riding in a used one with low miles, driven by a 17 year old. :) Need I say more about THAT ride?
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They are still very nice rides. Pretty much everything offered by an XKE coupe, but in a reliable and inexpensive package.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Mini I meant the 300Z 1990-1996, not eh 300ZX which was between the 300Z and the 280ZX.
I meant the 1990-1996 model too. Had a 91 300ZX that had 225HP... I remember reading up on the TT of the same year and seeing 275hp. I imagine they managed to pump another 25hp out of it by 1996, but it still wasn't that much considering how heavy the car was.
MiniD