Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Badger on September 19, 2000, 08:38:00 AM
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The Good:
Really like the new quick responsiveness of all planes. I managed a 7 kill run last night, of course engaging only on "My Time, My Terms, My Ground". They were made up of classic bounces to some great T&B down low and dirty scraps. Great fun, something I've been missing from AH for a while now. I've been getting 80-84 FPS normally and 50+ FPS in heavy traffic, smoke, clouds and near airfields while running at 1280x1024 (32 bit color) and Vsync ON. Incredible graphics and sense of immersion at these levels of detail.
I don't really care whether it's authentic or realistic, but I simply find v1.04r1 more FUN from an entertainment point of view.
Combat Trim is definitely a "dumbing" down of the pilot's cockpit management tasks, but I could care less as it is a feature that will definitely retain more players who try the game out, just as auto take-off should do. As a result, it will help HTC as a business reach critical revenue mass sooner. Personally, I have turned it OFF as I feel I have more control over the plane then when it's ON, plus subconsciously I think I have an edge over the guy who flies with it ON. Even if this isn't true, it helps my confidence during engagements and pushes me to fly the edge of the envelope.
<S> HTC for the overall improvement of the game with this release. To me, it is just a game for relaxation and I think your balancing of playability with immersion is close enough for my purposes, albeit, I would still like an additional permanent arena of just 2 sides, WWII based RPS and not have to fight the same aircraft type.
The Bad:
Not really v1.04r1 related, but I think there's some stress fractures in the social aspects of our community.
I do get really tired of the dysfunctional, arrogant and childish behavior on Channel 1. I realize that a lot of the swearing and immature behavior does come from kids with mom's credit card, but I wish HTC would grant "monitor" rights to some of the more mature individuals on-line, so they could exercise good judgment and after proper warnings to evict these characters. They demean the game and all of us, by sending signals to prospective sign-ups that this is the general character and value set of this community, which of course it isn't.
I also wish that some of the on-line Ace and self appointed vocal BBS pilots, would set better examples of community spiritual leadership, both on-line and on this medium. Many look up to you guys and learn from your examples. It isn't just about being a "hot stick" when you're flying and fighting. Your talent comes with some additional responsibility to provide leadership, whether you want the role or not. It goes hand in hand with your extraordinary skill sets. The seemingly endless "I quit" and "I apologize" threads on here, plus some of the embarrassing antics of vets on-line, do diminish my personal enjoyment of AH and I assume some others feel that way as well. I don't think it's a major thing overcome, but it will hurt the community if we all don't stop and think a little more before we type.
Just some random thoughts from an old "road kill" badger.
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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"...set better examples of community spiritual leadership, both on-line and on this medium. Many look up to you guys and learn from your examples. Your talent comes with some additional responsibility to provide leadership, whether you want the role or not."
Oh brother...
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WELL SAID!!!!!!
Maik
<JG54 Grünherz>
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When you say you turn it "OFF" (CT), do you still get the green CT light on inside the cockpit when you use auto-pilot level? I do, not sure if this is supposed to work this way...I've never mapped the CT so I assume it is off...any thoughts?
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Rip,
Under setup you can set CT to never come on.
Sharky
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Thks Sharky, guess I should have read up on it more...DOH!
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Rip if the CT is glowing then its enabled. You need to go into setup, under flight I believe it was and disable it.
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Originally posted by Creamo:
"...set better examples of community spiritual leadership, both on-line and on this medium. Many look up to you guys and learn from your examples. Your talent comes with some additional responsibility to provide leadership, whether you want the role or not."
Oh brother...
Hi creamo.. <S>
Yup...it is pretty old fashion isn't it....
But, I guess you'd also find value sets like "duty, honor, courage" I learned from 17 years of service pretty disturbing as well.
Sorry it doesn't fit with your value sets or ideas of what society should be....
I'm sure your generation will be an improvement over whatever old guys like me have left as a legacy, with whatever values flourish from "Fatty's Mom's Bedroom". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
When you say you turn it "OFF" (CT), do you still get the green CT light on inside the cockpit when you use auto-pilot level? I do, not sure if this is supposed to work this way...I've never mapped the CT so I assume it is off...any thoughts?
Hi Rispnort... <S>
Good question rip....
I found that using the toggle key as defined under "setup keyboard" didn't work the way I wanted it to, as it simply came back ON (turn GREEN) as soon as I used an "auto trim" sequence like ALT X for example. Instead, I went into the flight options and permanently pressed the combat trim button OFF and now it doesn't seem to ever turn ON (GREEN) anymore.
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-19-2000).]
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I'm voting for Badger as the lodge boss! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Well said (<S> and a <nod> ). And lately I'm constantly examining my own behavior (here and when online) and trying to bring it more in sync with what I myself would like to see. It's a work in progress (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
p.s. Was nice flying off your wing for a sorty the other day (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 09-19-2000).]
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Sayeth Badger "I wish HTC would grant "monitor" rights to some of the more mature individuals on-line".
I asked HTC the very same in a private email last week. Have never received a response. It is my understanding that HTC is hoping that the community will police itself. That will never happen. I spent 15 years as a law enforcement officer. Personal responsibility and behaviour as deemed proper by a community are concepts that some just do not get.
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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While I would like to see some of the juvenile behavior in AH curbed, I think the monitor idea is a bad one. I'm sure that there are some players who I'd trust with such power, but there's only one that I can think of right now..... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously, I think the monitor would be in a very tough position trying to be fair, and not generate more bad feelings than the behavior he/she is trying to control.
We have squelch. Make the squelch list permanent, and the problem is pretty much solved.
popeye
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Arrrrg, where you get duty honor or courage in a computer game...phooey. Why everyone should go to a Promise Keeper Tent Gathering before playing a war game I do not know.
...and I also bet there are guys that would enjoy being those "Monitors" much more than the game itself.
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Originally posted by Apache:
....I asked HTC the very same in a private email last week. Have never received a response.
I understand the issues from both sides. We tried to discuss this several months ago with Pyro under some separate marketing threads, about potentially utilizing moderators here on the BBS, as well as more on-line help as an extension to their small in-house staff. Both the membership and Pyro felt that it would place to many people unnecessarily between them and their customers.
I agree with what there saying, but simply by judging the recent unregulated on-line and BBS behavior that easily exceeds HTC's own published "Terms of Service" guidelines, I would have thought they'd have revisited their decision.
In any event, I simply spend a lot of time typing in real time a squelch list as needed. In the absence of a moderator on the BBS, I wish there was a similar personalized "squelch" function for this BBS, in order to skip over some of the trite we wade through to get to some real substance.
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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Originally posted by Creamo:
...and I also bet there are guys that would enjoy being those "Monitors" much more than the game itself.
You're absolutely correct, it is a delicate balance between agendas and personalities. I'm sure we have both seen it done well, but also very badly. The trick is the right people in the right job. Guys like Kieren, Vadr, FunkedUp and many others come to mind as being low on ego, but high on good judgment.
As far as the rest, as a real life pilot chatting with a good aircraft mechanic, I think you understood my meaning.......
I'll leave it at that....
Thanks for your feedback..... <S>
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-19-2000).]
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I guess I am an old fart too Badger.
I know it is a game,....and the graphics and all the associated peripherals are only mechanical gadgets employed to make it all work,...but the people are real.
As such, I think it only prudent to show respect and excercise some level of discipline in how I interact with those real people.
Maybe those concepts are old fashioned, but they have served me well over my life. I like to think the people I interact with here have respect for me as a person. Lord knows, I am not the best pilot around.
I learned early in my career that "burning bridges" is not a good idea, for you never know when you might actually need the help of one of those you might have offended.
Or as one of my mentors liked to say, "Short term thinking, will lead to long term problems".
With all the recent talk about how players act online,..doesn't it really boil down to a very simple question?
How do I want to be treated by these people? Ask yourself that question before you type the next line in the text buffer.
Respect can be granted, but then has to be kept. I do not think it is much to ask anyone, but then...that is just how I work.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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Apache and Badger don’t take this the wrong way but here it goes….
Just because one of you was a cop, and the other was in the service for some time does not mean that you two have better morals and “spirituality” than anyone else. In fact many people disagree with what/how you are taught about religion and morals in the military. I know more corrupt cops than I do good ones. I believe the good cops are under paid for their job just as our teachers are but that’s another story.
It’s nothing against either of you but any type of church talk needs to stay out of the game. I very much dislike when I see a so called “Bible Beater” (I live in the Bible Belt) attempt to bestow his/her belief’s and morals upon person’s via a means of a public game.
Badger, I don’t think that’s what you had in mind but I feel it’s getting close enough to that point that I decided to speak up.
Apache, I’m not saying you were/are a bad Police Officer, because I have no idea and I hope you didn’t take offense to my cop comment, but not all of the public feel they’ve always been protected and helped out by Police Officers.
I agree the community has defiantly changed for the worse. I feel it has a lot to do with “easy mode” being added. Since beta I had hoped HTC would not try to cater to the general public because of the problems that brings to a game and I think we’re just starting to see some of those problems. I originally thought the price would keep the “riff-raff” out of the game but I guess time will tell when we start seeing if all the two-weekers start to stay.
I know HTC is a business and we know they have investors to satisfy so I think we will start to see some more things change to cater to the general public. As a investor I’d back HTC because I feel they have the right stuff to make me a lot of money but as a player I must say I wish HTC had enough cash so they didn’t have to have/satisfy investors. Did that make any since at all? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mox
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Why not try to play the game with honor?
What is the alternative? Vulgar brats posturing on channel 1.
Warbirds 1.x was the most fun I've had in all these sims. The reason why is the people who played it.
Slowly, its gotten less fun as the meaness has escalated.
I vote for honor and courage.
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Mox,
No, I did not take offense to your comments as I know some of those "bad" cops myself. They, like all criminals, should be locked away. I did not mention the fact that I was a police officer to imply that I would be a choice candidate for a "monitor", but only to show that communities are incapable of "policing themselves" or there would be no need for law enforcement in the first place. Also, I do not advocate a sysop having free rein either, but simply enforcing the HTC TOS already in place.
lol Creamo, I agree that some most probably would like the monitor thing better. You really crack me up when you point out the obvious (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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Hmm.. played WB 1 (and earlier)...
It seems about the same to me. I just wonder how selective people's memories are.
As for the "arena police". What an idea.. give everyone one more thing to complain about. Check out any bbs/arena where moderators are appointed. Look for those instances where one moderator does something that another doesn't like and look at what happened.
Experience tells me player/moderators are a bad idea. Power corrupts.. absolute power corrupts absolutely. Though somewhat overstated, this has applied to every player/moderator setup I've ever seen.
AKDejaVu
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My cat has 9 lives.
<punt>
Eight now.
Hang
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Just put up a Gestapo to monitor all activities, I am sure all would be happy.. at least them whos working for it.
I wonder again this "age" issue in this thread, where is let people to understand that all youths are some rebels bad mouthing others and so on...
Come on, we all know that is not true and there are many "adults" that you could think more of 13 year old kid (and those 13 year old kids that you would think as 30 year old)
Ps. I am adult, but I've been younger like all of you.. or have you all forgot that?
oh.. by the way, who wants to see collection of 'adults' bad mouthing screenshots? (oo.. it includes many of top 50 players, who you all have respect for)
So.. I must put under a question this "monitor user" issue.
Though, I must admit that community is something that has made me turn away from on-line playing.
Even with all graphics and other stuff, I think WarBirds I being as best on-line simulator experience ever, just because of community and spirit. (we're less luftwaffies whining of this and that and allies whining about this and that and insulting luftwaffies... bore)
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Originally posted by Fishu:
Even with all graphics and other stuff, I think WarBirds I being as best on-line simulator experience ever, just because of community and spirit. (we're less luftwaffies whining of this and that and allies whining about this and that and insulting luftwaffies... bore)
ROTFLOL, evidently you don't read AGW !!
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Unbelievable. Being "against" cursing and abusive behavior towards other community members, and suggesting a possible measure to limit that disgusting and unnecessary "feature" of the community gets you labeled as a "bible thumper" (and therefore "bad," naturally) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
The alternative, of course, is to either ignore or actually DEFEND the practice (freedom of speech and all that, right?) How sad. The people who abuse their membership in the community are the ones whose "rights" must be protected, and the ones who are actually being abused are the "unreasonable" ones.
My morals don't stand up to much scrutiny, I'll admit, but if I EVER abused someone online in a silly GAME, or actually took the time to TYPE out a line of curse words just for the "privilege" of making everyone else read them, I would ABSOLUTELY deserve to be ejected. Imagine how you'd feel if you typed out one of those abusive, epithet-laden, "vents" that it's supposedly your "right" to utter, and then found out that the subject of your verbal attack was some 16-year-old high school GIRL who just happened to love airplanes and dreamed about being a pilot someday. Wouldn't you feel like an ASS?
And you'd be one too.
ANY "solution" to this problem deserves some consideration, and doing the "wrong" thing might even be preferable to doing nothing IMO.
Either that or give the sim an "R" rating and slap one of those Adult Check thingies on the login page.
Sorry, but I'm sick of seeing nice folks have to put up with crap spewed by absolute jerks hiding behind "fairness" when they have no intention of showing that same fairness to anyone else (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
--jedi
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Jedi, could you please limit your use of the words CRAP and bellybutton here? (Central is a 16 year old school girl.) If not,I will have the monitor eject you.')
Thanks in advance.
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Well, this is an FPS way of doing things... but.. if enough people are offended and vote person out - he is blocked for 15 minutes..
aka. Jadi says "i don't like spitfires" on channel 1 - and i get everyone in my sqauadron to vote against him... within 3 minutes we have 20 votes and jedi can't play for 15 minutes...
Then when he returns - we threaten him that if he doesn't say "I love spitfires" every 30 seconds - we will vote him out again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Joking aside, i think it might work.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Chiming in again on this issue...
This "problem" (and do we have anyone who doesn't think there is a problem?) is a community problem. I think those of us who are having problems with the MA atmosphere are sensing a lack of basic respect.
Myself, I am no better or worse than anyone else (as a person). One thing I do know, if I don't insist on being treated respectfully I probably won't be. This is a hard lesson learned in the trenches of my classroom and coaching experiences. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
As for the problem being isolated to the new signups, that simply isn't true. Some of our younger players are among the finest flyers and are class acts as well. One of the squadrons I hold in high regard is the SFRT (don't know what that means). I understand they have several younger guys there, one of which is a personal friend of mine (Ziegler, 15 years-old and my TA at school). Total class all the way. The truth is I see many of the high profile, older and experienced pilots spewing on open far more than I do the younger or inexperienced fellows.
So, what is the perception? It seems some don't want any "moral policing", and I can respect that. Some may even say there is no real problem, just people who have problems. I can honestly say I ask myself that same question. Is it a problem, or am I just not cut out for the online gig? Am I too sensitive? Perhaps. The result will be the same nonetheless- if I don't enjoy my online experience, I am gone. However you feel about the morality issue, that is the bottom line, and the lowest denominator for all of us.
So we ask ourselves, what makes this experience "fun"? Is it:[list=1]- Vicariously experiencing WWII air combat?
- Flying the many different aircraft and learning their nuances?
- Working with fellow pilots to accomplish a common goal?
- Helping to organize events for others to enjoy?
- Using the terrain editor to produce never-before-seen maps for online use?
- White-knuckle H2H action?
- Infuriate another person for the fun of watching him fill the buffer with rantings?
- Ruining a scenario which took many hours of work to develop by refusing to cooperate or abide by ROE?
- Build up a weak self-esteem by tearing down the efforts or exploits of anyone around you?
- Hurl racial slurs?
[/list=a]
Just some thoughts to ponder...
BTW, thanks on the compliment, Badger. I don't think I would work out as a monitor, but I appreciate the thought nonetheless. I think it would be a tough razor's edge to walk, and I'm not sure anyone is up to the task. Let's hope it doesn't become necessary to find out.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
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Originally posted by Kieren:
As for the problem being isolated to the new signups, that simply isn't true. Some of our younger players are among the finest flyers and are class acts as well. One of the squadrons I hold in high regard is the SFRT (don't know what that means). I understand they have several younger guys there, one of which is a personal friend of mine (Ziegler, 15 years-old and my TA at school). Total class all the way. The truth is I see many of the high profile, older and experienced pilots spewing on open far more than I do the younger or inexperienced fellows.
I agree with you on just about everything you said except some of the above info and I didn’t mean any disrespect to the younger players here. I didn't mean "riff-raff" to mean all younger players. I meant the "average joe" the ones that don't truly care about the sim, the ones that goof off just to disrupt other players, etc. What I usually see between 5:30pm-11:00pm M-F CST is a lot of the dweep comments (spitdweeb, altdweep, HOdweep, etc) which really doesn’t bother me, but then I see something like this:
12578:F*CK*NG MOTH*R F*CK*R Y*U CH*ATING B*TCH (usually in caps and usually spelled like a ereet c00l guy).
I can guarantee that the easier the game gets and the more it’s directed at a wider audience you will see a decrease in the quality of the community regardless of the players age. It’s just a matter of time, it’s happened to every single massive multiplayer game that I've been a part of so far.
In my opinion the only thing that I can see that would help is to turn on a chat filter that replaces the bad words with symbols, but make it an option. Just like some games have parental locks to turn off the gore and vulgar language.
“12578” was used as an example, I have no idea if that name even exist.
Mox
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Quote:
"It’s nothing against either of you but any type of church talk needs to stay out of the game. I very much dislike when I see a so called “Bible Beater” (I live in the Bible Belt) attempt to bestow his/her belief’s and morals upon person’s via a means of a public game."
What a crock. Another example of Liberal Brainwashing. What ever happened to Free Speech for all??? And what tome do you "beat"??
So, we have to accept some moron's offensive behavior simply because the moron is bereft of any religion, ethics, or beliefs(or manners, considerartion for others, or what we used to call class )? Like hell.
BTW, some people's morals and ethics are superior to others. And a worthless jack-ass is a worthless jack-ass in any lanquage.
Offensive bozo's should be kicked-out of the game.
Cabby
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=44th FS "VAMPIRES"=
"The Jungle Air Force"
Welcome To The Jungle!!!"
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Bravo Cabby!!!!
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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Ethics police? Let me be the first to volunteer... We get F-14's to "punish" the offenders, right? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
I agree that the "overall" maturity has dropped. However, this is why you can make/join squads and squelch people. As long as the language is kept acceptable to minors I can see no compelling reason to enforce ethics. I do agree that language not acceptable for minors should be policed. That is the fine line in my mind.
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Originally posted by cabby:
What a crock. Another example of Liberal Brainwashing. What ever happened to Free Speech for all??? And what tome do you "beat"??
So, we have to accept some moron's offensive behavior simply because the moron is bereft of any religion, ethics, or beliefs(or manners, considerartion for others, or what we used to call class )? Like hell.
Offensive bozo's should be kicked-out of the game.
Cabby
[/B]
Cabby, Are you saying you support having religion in this game? What would that help? Many people believe in many different types of religion and it's up to them to live there life the way they choose to as long as they do not break (maybe I should say get "caught breaking") any laws.
I'm not saying I believe that you must tolerate morons all though you and I both know we have to do it every single day of our life in some form. You can be a moron without even getting relgion involved.
Cabby, when you find a world with no morons or a world where you don't have to deal with morons let me know because I know a lot of people that would like to move there.
"BTW, some people's morals and ethics are superior to others" Isn't this just a matter of opinion? What I feel as morals may be completly different than what you feel is "superior"?
I agree that "Offensive Bozo's" should be kicked out of the game but again I'm a realist the all mighty dollar will not allow this.
Mox
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WTG cabby and badger.
It is funny to me that when someone talks about the Bible or being a Christian some say they are going to far...stepping on their toes. LOL
Mox said--
Cabby, Are you saying you support having religion in this game? What would that help? Many people believe in many different types of religion and it's up to them to live there life the way they choose to as long as they do not break (maybe I should say get "caught breaking") any laws.
Exactly MOX, By talking about Jesus Christ or the Bible would I Be breaking any laws? If that is my lifetstyle why should I remain quiet about it. For a fact their are those that type out as fast as they can profanity and other ludeness. I just squelch them but I say that to say it goes both ways. IT doesnt have to help anything.. or be constructive.. its just the way a Christian thinks.
BTW 1.04R1 rocks!
JMO
ammo
[This message has been edited by -ammo- (edited 09-19-2000).]
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ROTFLOL, evidently you don't read AGW !!
Hey Rip, why don't you worry less about AGW and more about the turmoil here within your beloved Aces High?
Sure, I see whiners and complainers on AGW. But they are whining and complaining about game issues - primarily about the pros and cons of historical arena setups. Unlike AH, where I have seen in the past three days:
-7 threads on abusive behavior in the arenas
-1 thread on players abusing the training arena
-MANY threads pointing out glaring inaccuracies in the FM, including planes flying without wings, planes doing impossible climbs while perpendicular to the ground, trim problems, etc.
- Several threads complaining about warping, server connects and micro-warps
- And a ncie thread about why someone thinks Citabria is a loser.
Compare that to the last three days of AGW, why don't you? There's trouble in paradise, Rip, whether you like to believe it or not. I've seen several reasonable people make reasonable requests for folks to tone it down in the arenas. And then I've seen folks jump all over em.
I had the chance to fly several hours in the AH arena last week, and I noticed the same type of abusive, annoying behavior others are complaining about. That was one of the reasons I lost interest in MacAW - we had a player who just enjoyed himself by abusing others, and driving them from the game. While AH itself is not bad, I really don't care much for that type of community. Maybe you do, I dunno.
Don't really have the time to justify a $30 account, since I only have a few hours a week to fly right now. But even if I had time, I'm not certain I'd get an account until HT does something to clean up the arenas. I left the playground back in elementary school.
Spitboy -SW-
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I was a "monitor" "air police" of AW3, The community really didn't like us, they felt it was an "us" verses "them". I really think it had a nightmarish effect on me AND the community.
I like the way the community sets the standards, and self polices. Seeing both side of this coin, trust me on this one, it's pretty good the way it stands now.
Any and all internet based games will receive their share of "unrully" and verbally abusive people ( notice i didn't put an age factor in here). We all have a squelch button, althou there are people that say the squelch is not the answer, i don't think " hall monitors" are. I personally haven't squelch anyone sofar.
My best advice if you don't want to squelch , is Not to feed the fire of these people and let em die out. some just look to irritate just because they can. 99% of the people on AH are really great people , the other 1% are, well, you know.
Suggestion: grow thicker skin, if little ones are present , squelch when you can. But asking to "police" the AH airwaves is DEFINATELY not the answer. Remember AH is world wide, and multi languages are used at all times of day. what is a " curse" in one language may not be in another, and filtering all languages may be impossible. Besides i would HATE to get booted or warned because i used the word "crap" or "shit" before face planting.
NUTTZ
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Yah have ALL gotta be kidding; Right??
Badger puts up a good post, askin for some sensibility and courtesy from all players, new and vets, young and old...
Sounded ok to me. Lets think about his point.. the rest of this nonsense is just loudly and indignantly agreeing with Badgres point, which I think we all agree with up to where he mentions monitors. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Badger.. I understand from whence you come; and I agree; some of us vets have been less than kind as of late.. duly noted. I'll try harder. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But; we are HUMAN, and last time I checked makin mistakes and spewing fer a few moments was not all that damn unnatural, given the endeavor we've taken up as a hobby.
That noted, I respectfully suggest that the implementation of thought police in our hobby would be a cure far more damaging than the symptom..
We're on line to kill the red planes. We can all turn off the radio traffic from redland with .squelch 100 command.
I'm hoping that someday soon we will have a feature that will allow us to completely remove the text buffer. Think of it.. no distractions. Then we can concentrate entirely on killin the red planes. Which is what we all wanna do anyway.. right??
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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Originally posted by -ammo-:
WTG cabby and badger.
Exactly MOX, By talking about Jesus Christ or the Bible would I Be breaking any laws?
If that is my lifetstyle why should I remain quiet about it. For a fact their are those that type out as fast as they can profanity and other ludeness. I just squelch them but I say that to say it goes both ways. IT doesnt have to help anything.. or be constructive.. its just the way a Christian thinks.
[This message has been edited by -ammo- (edited 09-19-2000).]
I never mentioned a certain religion nor did I even mention Jesus Christ.
I don't think anyone can give me one example of how religion of ANY kind would make this game better (for everyone). It 'might' make it better for the ones that 'believe' exactly the way you do but what about the rest of the world?
Ammo, As long as you are not closed minded to listen to other peoples believes in game then maybe it would work. I for one think that at some point talking about religion in game or on a game related bbs would cause a problem for some players.
Why not just leave it out, that way nobody gets all freaked out because we just agreed religion brings nothing to the game?
Maybe my choice of the words on my original post was not the best and I apologize if I offended you or anyone else.
After re-reading Cabby's post, I would certainly agree if we had free speech for ALL, it would be a much better place, although alot of people couldn't handle it. Religious persacution has been around for many years and in today's society it still exist, then there's the whole other can of worms called PC "politicly correct".
Mox
[This message has been edited by Mox (edited 09-19-2000).]
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I am gonna concede to the will of the community in the aspect of "no police". I listen to those whose opinions I respect.
I don't think, however, that we were uttering nonsense, but simply our thoughts on the matter as any family member would have the right to do in a thought provoking discussion.
I still don't like the foul language tho.
Squelch it is.
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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Originally posted by Apache:
I don't think, however, that we were uttering nonsense, but simply our thoughts on the matter as any family member would have the right to do in a thought provoking discussion.
I still don't like the foul language tho.
Squelch it is.
I agree Apache and salute for saying in a productive way. Many of us will agree to disagree on this topic but I feel most if not all of us are posting for the same reason, we feel strongly about this sim!
Mox
[This message has been edited by Mox (edited 09-19-2000).]
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I'm just throwing out a suggestion here...
Maybe we could have a type of "community enforcement system" in the game. Here's my idea: Give players a command they could type if they feel someone is acting inappropriately. I.E. .censor (username). If the server received a large number of requests from different users, that person would receive a warning pop up. If the server continued to receive yet more .censor commands, that user would receive a message saying something like "You behavior has been deemed inappropriate by a majority of the community. Your account has been locked from the arenas for a period of 1 hour." The server could then write this information to a log file. If problems continue and the user receives even more arena lockouts HTC could send them an e-mail saying that their account is on probation. Any further incidents requiring ejection could then justify HTC to ban the user.
It seems to me that this gives some power to the community as a whole. The warning box could be set to a low level of .censor commands received, but the temporary lockout would be set MUCH higher. I think the warning would likely cause most users to cool off. Temporarily locking out their account from the arena should definately make them think about what they are doing. They would also be aware that repeated incidents could result in probation or a termination of service.
IMO this is better than community moderators because it does not give any user more power than another. (Avoids the "I pay my $30 a month just like you" problem. ) It also avoids potential problems in the future between the user and the moderators online at the time.
Once again, this is just an idea I came up with. Please don't think you'll hurt my feelings or something by telling me that it stinks.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Are you guys all talking about one event that you all experianced?
Man am I tuned out of this thing or what.
The arena has been polite in my opinion. Absolutly no different to me than any 2 week period in Janurary. Some clowns. A racist the other night. People playing big ego man....
same old same old.
I see mostly (99%)salutes and jokes.
Course I dont notice any diff in the flight model either, so maybe I wouldnt see the change.
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I KILL MORE IT'S GREAT. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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One more night of pure fun logged, and for once was insulted more than ever. (it's kinda rare actually.)
Still, got BOTH their planes and chutes next sortie...what a riot. They laughed about it and I started supper and logged...
What you guys are so excited about, dunno. Maybe I should be more anal and hate something.
Anyway, GoodNite, gotta have a snack and not care about anything but a movie.
-
Did .Squelch stop to work in 1.04r1?
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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Originally posted by bloom25:
I'm just throwing out a suggestion here...
Maybe we could have a type of "community enforcement system" in the game. Here's my idea: Give players a command they could type if they feel someone is acting inappropriately. I.E. .censor (username). If the server received a large number of requests from different users, that person would receive a warning pop up. If the server continued to receive yet more .censor commands, that user would receive a message saying something like "You behavior has been deemed inappropriate by a majority of the community. Your account has been locked from the arenas for a period of 1 hour." The server could then write this information to a log file. If problems continue and the user receives even more arena lockouts HTC could send them an e-mail saying that their account is on probation. Any further incidents requiring ejection could then justify HTC to ban the user.
Great idea, and more, please add a censor list !!
<Naso start typing names on a paper>
uhmm....
Torque
Hangtime
Ram
Mitsu
Fariz
Kieren
Menedew
... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously, this kind of function can be easly tourned in a weapon to ostracize or eliminate people for different reasons than the arena behaviour.
For sure the great pilots will be targets of this, not bad for me, so THEY STOP TO SHOT ME DOWN every 5 minuts!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<Joke, almost>
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Badger,
I hear ya. It bums me too that players get so bent or parochial. I've found the squelch command helps a little, but that keeps me from hearing it. The abuse is still going on.
I tend to think of it as a simple case of mutual respect. No need for anything more. Respect based on the fact that we are all equally human.
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Hi all.......
Hmmm....sorry guys.....
I never meant to start such a big "kafuffel".......
As my subject title stated, I simply wanted to pass on my enthusiastic opinion to HTC and yourselves as to the "fun factor" and game playability of v1.04r1, but also express some personal observations about the increasing profanity and (IMHO) degrading behavior I've observed on Channel 1 for the last few weeks. I had taken some time off to enjoy the WB WWII arena, so when I got back here to try v1.04r1, I did distinctly notice a decline in manners that wasn't happening about a month ago.
I really didn't think I was expressing an opinion that was out of sync with the cultural standards of this community and I certainly wasn't proposing establishment of a "Gestapo", or the creation of a new bible thumping religion. By the way Mox, I completely understood the context of your thoughts and agree about the dangers of "zealots", whether they be religious or not. I appreciated the feedback. <S>
I did get a little reactive to creamo (sorry about that partner...<S> ) and I do respect his or anyone's rights to express deliberate irreverence to the current standards of anything, using a healthy "obligation to dissent" opinion style. Heck, I lived through the best of those times in the 60's with a huge anti-establishment and anti-cultural backlash to the mainstream thinking.
I do note that the Terms of Subscription agreement we all virtually signed when we joined, does not condone this kind of behavior. This was supported by Hitech on-line when I observed him "eject" an individual for unacceptable behavior, so I have to assume besides the terms agreement, it also doesn't meet his own personal standards. Realizing that he can't be on-line 7x24, I just thought it would be a good idea to extend his empowerment through additional "staff" monitors in order to provide more consistency of these standards than we currently have.
Apparently, it wasn't a good idea, so I withdraw the thought and leave it to the community or HTC to ponder a better solution.
Thanks to all who expressed their support or opposition to the concept.
By the way, it is interesting to note that in an abstract way, we already have pseudo monitors on this BBS. You've all seen those members who have adopted a self appointed role in threads of attempting to control the content. They are most recognized by either starting threads that would be clearly divisive, then jumping in as a referee, or attempting to marginalize others who have expressed an opinion that differs from their own. Be careful of this pattern. It is also relatively new to AH's BBS world and will lead this board down a path of discussion deterioration.
Again, focus on the "glass is half full" element of my point.
<S> HTC for v1.04r1. Even with a generalized MA I still disagree with, it has restored some real fun for me in AH as a game.
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-20-2000).]
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You, in AH, seem to have a problem very similar to the one that people on IRC are experiencing every day. There will always be users online who are a) mentally impaired b) kids c) stupid d) just plain rude individuals.. For this purpose all the channels have channel operators, who rule and control the discussion for the benefit of the majority. All misbehaving users get swiftly removed from the channel and banned if they repeat the offences. This has proved to be a very working system so maybe it would be possible to create a similar system to AH via voting. Those 'ops' could remove misbehaving users from the public channel. The remaining problem of private insults can be handled then easily with .squelch or .ignore whatever system will be effective.
Just my $20's worth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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mrsidl
43rd RAF Duxford wing 'British bulldogs'
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I personally don't understand what the fuss is about by just censoring unacceptable use of language. I don't think it is a free speach issue, it is just like prime time TV - no one seems to take exception to the standards placed on them.
I would code the system that if if an unexceptable word was used, the whole sentence would be deleted on-line.
Another thing I would like to add is that these types of games are extremely competative, frustrating, and adrenaline pumping. It is certainly easy to see how people (especially newbies) can "lose it" on the text buffer. Isn't this what makes the game great? Nothing against the guys that lose it, it is just that it puts me on edge when someone goes on and on. I don't think pitting the community against eachother is the solution, so my vote is for "auto censore".
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"it is just like prime time TV - no one seems to take exception to the standards placed on them."
I think USA is one of the only countries where cussing is not allowed on TV.
"I would code the system that if if an unexceptable word was used, the whole sentence would be deleted on-line."
Dont you all remember the WB system? when certain words would come out scrambled like @#?!%
Regards.
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Hey Spitboy, alittle sensitive as usual there eh Sport? Hehe, my post about AGW and the quote within was pertaining to the LW vs Allied whining, don't get your panties in a bunch. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As far as you're not coming to AH? Thats like MG saying he won't be coming, so, enjoy whatever flight sim you're flying these days (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Badger:
By the way Mox, I completely understood the context of your thoughts and agree about the dangers of "zealots", whether they be religious or not. I appreciated the feedback. <S>
Badger, You're a class act man Salute! I tend to ramble sometimes and for a while I thought maybe you had misunderstood what I was getting at.
See you up there!
Mox
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Originally posted by Badger:
I do note that the Terms of Subscription agreement we all virtually signed when we joined, does not condone this kind of behavior.
Actually, there is nothing in the subscription TOS that governs behavior. We just leave ourselves the right to boot people off the service. And that is something we will do if necessary.
6. Either you or HiTech Creations may terminate your HiTech Creations membership at any time, with or without cause.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Sorry Pyro....
I stand corrected....
I had assumed that profanity and/or racial slurs such as what "ripsnort" mentioned witnessing in another thread, fell under Section 11 shown below, but indeed you are correct. If HTC chose to condone that activity, than by definition of the current service agreement it would no longer be considered "system abuse".
Let me know when that latter ever becomes the case so I can cancel my account. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Thanks for the clarification.
11. Subscribers are expressly prohibited from engaging in any activity that constitutes, in the sole opinion of HiTech Creations, system abuse.
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-20-2000).]
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Well, it seems apparent to me from HiTech's post in that other thread that he doesn't condone that type of behavior. It would be nice to have a clarification, however, of what is HTC's official position on profanity and other "naughty" language.
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Originally posted by banana:
Well, it seems apparent to me from HiTech's post in that other thread that he doesn't condone that type of behavior. It would be nice to have a clarification, however, of what is HTC's official position on profanity and other "naughty" language.
HT demonstrated their stance Monday, after asking the offending gentleman to watch his language, shortly after he said "F%##% you too HT" he was immediatly booted.
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I'm not stating that we do condone such behavior, we don't. Our course of action in such cases is what I outlined above in our discretion.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Of course Pyro, I never meant to imply HTC would ever condone such behavior. My apologies if my comments left you with that impression.
I was trying to suggest perhaps a modification to the agreement, that clarifies acceptable standards from HTC's point of view, as it is currently a little vague and open to a lot of interpretation.
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"
Regards,
Badger
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-20-2000).]
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Hey Spitboy, alittle sensitive as usual there eh Sport? Hehe, my post about AGW and the quote within was pertaining to the LW vs Allied whining, don't get your panties in a bunch.
Not sensitive at all. I was just pointing out that there's a whole lotta whining going on over here, and maybe you should worry more about THAT than the mild arguments going on over at AGW. For a year now I've been seeing you post everywhere you can how this sim has the friendliest, bestest community anywhere. By and large there's a lotta good people here, but judging from the posts and what I saw in the arenas during my trial, there's a smaller element that's destroying that aspect of AH. It's good to see HTC taking some action.
As far as you're not coming to AH? Thats like MG saying he won't be coming, so, enjoy whatever flight sim you're flying these days
What, you're saying I'm not welcome here? Well, now that's a friendly community for ya! Or maybe you have a problem with reading comprehension? I tried my two-week trial on my new Athlon TBird earlier this month. HiTech even killed me once, after I snagged two NIKs, which I'm sure put a smile on his face (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I haven't decided if it's worth getting an account yet, if you'd taken the time to read my whole post before your knee-jerk reaction flared up.
Spitboy -SW-
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Spitboy, you are, by all means, welcome here. We certainly do have our (bobn) element (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), but I don't think the destruction of AH is iminent. I would venture to say it will be here for quite a while once we get thru our growing pains just as we did in CK/WB.
j/k bobn!
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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Spitboy:...maybe you should worry more about THAT than the mild arguments going on over at AGW.
Well, I don't worry too much about any community since the communities usually take care of themselves..and since I play both sims, I find the LW conspiracy thing entertaining, on both sims.
Spitboy:For a year now I've been seeing you post everywhere you can how this sim has the friendliest, bestest community anywhere.
Funny, my first post was January, I count 9 months, and my posts regarding communities were merely saying that our community was an equal, not better, why would I say better? Most of my original squadron is flying WB's?
That would be a dis to them.
Spitboy:
By and large there's a lotta good people here, but judging from the posts and what I saw in the arenas during my trial, there's a smaller element that's destroying that aspect of AH.
You may *think* its destroying that aspect of AH, just as we thought it may be destroying the WB community years ago, but alas, WB still lives today, doesn't it?
Spitboy:What, you're saying I'm not welcome here? Well, now that's a friendly community for ya!
Text does me no justice, my point is comparable to a 5 gallon bucket of water, put your hand , now pull it out, notice any difference in the level of water? In other words, if you don't come in, 3 more from other flight sims do.
Good to see you at least give it a try, after all, you and MG had a good tag team flame fest going on against AH back earlier this year, glad to see there is some optimism in you. Welcome. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Good to see you at least give it a try, after all, you and MG had a good tag team flame fest going on against AH back earlier this year, glad to see there is some optimism in you. Welcome.
That's what ticks me off about you, Rip. I defy you to show instances where I've unjustly flamed AH. I never had a "tag team flame fest going on against AH" with MG. I'm always careful with what I post. I have said several times that I think the lack of a Mac port was a decision that could hurt HTC in the long run, and that it was my belief they could have made one without much effort. That's it. That's an opinion, and a relatively harmless one at that. By and large, I've given AH as much praise as criticism, even before playing it.
I have, however, flamed you. I did so because your cheerleading for AH on AGW, and your thinly-veiled attacks on WB there, were growing tiresome. Not just to me, but to several people. Note that of all the thousands of AH players, you are the only one who I've ever had a problem with in that regard - many AH fliers I have great respect for, and consider friends. Those folks talk about AH on AGW, and no one minds, because they don't cheerlead for it. Note also that there are many others who have brought up this criticism about you, so don't go saying "funny *you* have a problem with me?!". You have a well-earned reputation as an AH cheerleader.
Grow up, why don't you? Don't like me? Fine. But quit trying to cast me as some lunatic Mac'er who slams AH. It's growing tiresome.
Spitboy -SW-
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Unnnhh..
...wow.
Dudes.. may I suggest Dawn; tommorrow. Over the Rhine; with 190's. Call us with the results. (odds; anyone??)
See; that wuz easy. We can police ourselves!
"Badgers?? Weee doan' need no steeenking Badgers!!!"
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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With Badger on this one - had to log off a couple of weeks ago as got completely fed up with Edouble or some suchlike completely moronic teen - swearing etc (yes, I squelched him but the radio buffer was completely cluttered with people trying to reason with him...)
Freedom of speech/expression? I have freedoms too - being free from being annoyed by jerks who take pleasure in ruining other people joy is one of the most important ones.
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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I 'll just say this : Put the FDB as moderators !
Saw
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Thats a good idea SAW, cuz the "WHINER" filter we employ would make posts like this mute.
Now watch the BBS fester with HTC Censorship posts regarding this really weird auto-squelch.