Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vulcan on August 08, 2003, 01:03:39 AM
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Remember our visiting fanbois Zeroace from WW2OL?
Well hes been doing some 'flight testing' betweeen WW2OLs new 109E, AHs, and IL2s.
To cut a long story short, hes been ranting on about how AH feels, and how its soooo different from both IL2 and WW2OL etc etc.
Turns out hes been flying it with Combat Trim and the Stall Limiter turned on.
:D
Thread over there here:
http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiolhq/dg_message.jsp?group_id=8863&parent_id=3076780&BV_SessionID=@@@@1661644814.1060321466@@@@&BV_EngineID=dadcicfekmmhbjjcgmcggichhl.0
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Bwhahahahahahaha! :D
How anybody can take him seriously is beyond me.
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Is it just me or does everyone think Downtown is a complete idiot.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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LMFAO
Originally posted on the WW2OL BBS by a dork
Without the pilots input or trim the plane could crash.
Really? No toejam.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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What an dork!!!! Will be fun to read his responce... I really wish i could post over there...
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I feel sorry for the Zeroace kid.
He's put his foot in his mouth now on both forums in record time.
He should stay put and be happy preaching his experiences to all the WW20l "ownage" that think he knows his stuff.
But it does crack me how all his knowledge of WW2 planes comes from the History Channel. I can remeber the exact Heavy Metal P38 and Spitefire episodes he is reciting.
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When I first started playing that game, the Downtown fella used to get annoying, very quickly. Now I remember why.
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Didnt he play AH? i remember him... might have been from WB´s tho..
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With the conditions he sets up I'm getting a glide time of 3:00, by lowering RPM.
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Dale "Hitech" Addnick is three time Champion of the Great Lakes Invitational Fighter Battle. Or something like that. I know he won one time flying P-51s. (Over lake Michigan.)
:eek:
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Wow those guys make our dumbest posters look like geniuses.
"WOLRD WAR 2 FITERS WERE TEH MOST UNSTABEL PLANES EVAR!!!"
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"How anybody can take him seriously is beyond me."
Zeroace is atypical of a lot of players over there in arcade land. Many of whom like flying in the silly FM skies of WWIIO. They won't question CRS's "industries most accurate and bestest ever" FM and refuse to let others do it too. Even after issue upon issue has been raised with it that were slowly, painfully and eventually acknowleged (how many customers were driven away by DocDoom, Hatch and the fan boi's retorts?). These minoins have swallowed the CRS fm "PR" as gospel over the past couple of years and are more than eager to regurgitate it to the heretics and non believers outside of thier "world."
And Downtown used to be a nice guy. think he's in his late teens or early 20's so he's young, impressionable and of course gullible. But since he became a WWIIO fanbois-slash-board moderator he's changed a lot. For the worse IMO.
For all intensive purposes he dropped out of the serious portion of that discussion when he hoisted himself on his own petard with, "I was just watching the "Discovery Wing Channel"...." and more or less cut his own throat saying a WWII fighter pilot who dared take his hands off the control stick would emmediately spin in and crash.
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That fool has an excellent ability to dodge and avoid questions...
A stellar performance yet again Vulcan. It's tough to argue with idiots though :)
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The P38 may have been MORE stable than the average warbird, but it would still crash without pilot input or trim.
No toejam, Sherlock!
Damn, this guy does not have the slightest clue when it comes to aerodynamics or aircraft design.
He swears WWII planes were designed to be as unstable as posible. Probably because he saw some documentary talking about the F-16
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ROFL Comedy gold, Vulcan. Nice setup too.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Animal
Probably because he saw some documentary talking about the F-16
I'd gather thats exactly why - took the words from my mouth.
Well done Vulcan - I especially liked the 'This is what a real FM thread looks like' bit. ;)
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Have you read his latest comments? He's making out that AH has the stall-limiter on in the MA. lol
Has this guy every even played online?
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NO guys if you LISTENED to downtown you'd KNOW that the REASON that the ahrplanes were BUILT to be UNSTABLE like that was because if they WEREN'T then you would be an easy TARGET and you'd be SHOT DOWN.
"That is also the very reason you want instability in a fighter, so its not straight and level and an easy target for enemy fighters to shoot at." - Downtown
It WORKS in ACES HIGH like that TOO cuz if I'm in trouble with an nme arhplane on my 6 O CLOCK all I do is I LET GO OF THE STCK and my plane zips THIS WAY AND THATAWAY making it hard to SHOOT at ME.
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I'm still trying to figure out how someone could "find no effect" with combat trim enabled.
MiniD
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Oh, for the love of god.
Downtown said,
"I was just watching the "Discovery Wing Channel" and they had a engineer from The RAF Duxford Museum, a retired Engineer from Supermarine, and a Researcher from the U.S. Air Force Museum who all said that all WWII Fighters were designed to be inherently unstable.
I've also read and researched and talked to WWII FIghter pilots who told me that one thing was sure to happen if you let go of the stick.
You went into a nose down spiral dive and crashed.
Yes they're stable if you hold the control stick and constantly adjust trim, but they are not inherently stable. If you let go of the control stick a WWII Era fighter will spin in and crash. "
What pretentious ignorance. Can someone please go over there and straighten him.
Edit: nm, wtg Vulcan.
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I read the first page, then read the last page, and saw that there was nothing left to accomplish there.
As for instability in aircraft, I believe that varied by design. The Fokker DVII is supposed to be an extremely stable aircraft, whereas the F-16 is unstable, relying on computers to keep it airborne. Or something like that.
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Oddly, AH allows players to use this stall model and the realistic stall model in the same online arena at the same time.
lol, I think he needs to read the help file again.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Westy
For all intensive purposes
Sorry to be the English language police here Westy, but you must have missed the thread detailing the most annoying bad use of English on the internet. This one drives me NUTS.
It isn't "for all intensive purposes"!!!!
It's "for all intents and purposes".
Carry on.
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Zerocase only reads the help files to debunk WW2Ol "myths"... but when putting it onto a pedastal above AH, he regularly dodges the facts and never goes very in depth into all of AH's settings.
That was absolutely the most amazing display of idiocy I have ever seen. "WW2 fighters were built to be unstable", yeah, they did that because they had all of these freshly trained pilots in their new unstable fighters they wanted to kill off before they even encountered the enemy.
If that statement about WW2 fighters being built to be unstable were true, WWII would of been over before it began.
-SW
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I gues these guys have never watched the roaring glory videos.
Helll Steve Hinton I said the Corsair once trimmed was pretty stable, he even flew hands free for a time...
Same with the P-38 one Jeff Ethell did a few months before he crashed a p-38.
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Well in my opinion, I think that IL2 feels the most realistic. Why, because it think it replicates the feeling of flying a metal fighter aircraft that had weight the best. The way it tends to pitch and suggest inertial feedback by lack/lag of response gives IL2 a realistic feeling. Example:
> IL-2 and Fighter Ace were pretty clear
> cut in when there zoom ended, and no
> amount of manuevering could coax a
> little more out of it.
In AH I would expect that 109 to perfectly perform some ninja moves against me as Im going verticle to catch him.
The problem with the IL2 FM is that the flying and maneuvoring and trajectory (energy) stuff doesnt feel real at all. If you have played Janes USAF, then I think you know what Im saying. Its just my opinion. Il2 does model aircraft feel the best.
taking off in IL2 is good. Landing in IL2 is gamey at best.
I've flown WB 3.0 and it seems to also feel heavier than AH does but WB 3.0 in my opinion doesnt model this well. Il2 does it much much better. WB 3.0 doesnt feel real to me at all.
While I dont feel that AH models the way the aircraft feels the best out of the examples, its overall FM lends itself best to air to air sim combat thus far. The FM is precise and finite and lends itself well to feel during hard maneuvring and flying at the limit. Its just that AH possibly over does this and sometimes I feel like Im flying an aircraft on invisable air rails. The AH FM and physics modeling lends itself well to tournement style ACM. AH doesnt model aircraft body weight and feel as well as Il2. Its flight, trajectory (energy) is the best out of the three mentioned above.
taxing , taking off and landing in AH doesnt feel real at all. AH FM is too easy these days.
No comment on the other sims, havent played them.
If AH could model "feel" like in Il2 and keep its flight and energy stuff, that would be awsome. If Il2 improved its flight and enegry physics stuff and kept its feel, same.
Course I've never flown in real life. This is just my opinion.
Also I think everybody flies at rediculas speeds and maneuvorability in AH and overall its sort of like a star wars simulator last time I played. Too much gaming the game. Not enough arial/group tactics. Seemed like every other AH pilot was a super jedi or something. I like my simulations as real as possible.
Also the hazy/misty/foggy atmospheric effects in IL2 also add alot to the dimension and feeling of flying an aircraft. Combine that with the low haze etc... from Falcon 4.0 and that would be super.
Last but not least, I dislike the icons. it ruins the air war tactics and takes alot of guessimation out of it all. I would like a new low visability icon system perhaps with range but not exact. Perhaps using wider ranges. or the distance value should disapear after 2000 yrds. Should not be allowed to shoot or setup for a shoot using range values. Removing the range out to 3 or 4 thousand yrds would do it for guys who like to streak in super fast and shoot.
AH is still the best online air combat sim. Its alot of fun.
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Actaully, that seems to be a pretty fair assessment MrCoffe. Thanks for posting it.
MiniD
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I gues these guys have never watched the roaring glory videos.
Helll Steve Hinton I said the Corsair once trimmed was pretty stable, he even flew hands free for a time...
Same with the P-38 one Jeff Ethell did a few months before he crashed a p-38.
Greg Boyington, in his autobiography, stated that he would routinely rig up a rubber band system in the cockpit to keep the stick straight and the plane level while he caught a smoke.
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LOL...though he was dead with this
No flight sim is without it's flaws, and no flight sim can fully and accurately depict real life. Governments and agencies spend millions of dollars trying to do that, and even those aren't perfect.
though something tells me he was hoping to bait some ah players with that...
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Greg Boyington, in his autobiography, stated that he would routinely rig up a rubber band system in the cockpit to keep the stick straight and the plane level while he caught a smoke.
A smoke, and sometimes a nap. :)
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Well, hopefully he's been smacked down enough to never stick his head in the AH BBS again to be the PR Bois for WW2OL.
Dunno if his simple little single celled brain realises he did more damage to the game than promote it.
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I read that post, kinda ticked me off to. You could tell he went into it with a bias. I still have accounts in both games. I don't get this pissing contest that the different sim guys get into. I play most of my time in WWIIOL now, it is suprisingly fun for me. I do like AH's flight model a WHOLE lot better, but I hate the MA style it has. The chess pieces and terrains turn me off quickly. Plus seeing a majority of spits, la7s and ponies gets old quick. But thats for me. I still keep my account because I am blown away by HiTechs customer service, hence he still gets my money. They earned it many times with me. Plus my Dad plays now and is on like 24/7 it seems.
Lots of stuff pisses me off with wwiiol, lots. But I still manage to have some fun, and thats what its about.
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Re the stall limiter argument: I don't know for sure and I can't be arsed to go and find out, but doesn't the stall limiter work if you're on a 2 week trial? If so then that explains why Zeroace "tested" it and found it does work in the MA......
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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I think it works any time. But, its a limiter. It doesn't allow you to ride the edge of a stall indefinately, nor disable stalls... it just prevents your plane from doing some of the things that would cause a stall (limitting your pitch). This means you won't be able to do as much with an aircraft as someone with it disabled.
MiniD
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Mini has it. I don't know what else you'd name it, but "stall limiter" makes it sound like something that it isn't. It doesn't limit stalls... it limits the ability to induce them.
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Aye that's true, doesnt really matter if it's available or not. It's hardly a crutch for anyone except a total newbie.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I gues these guys have never watched the roaring glory videos.
I own three of them - the Corsair, Zero, and P-38. I scanned the Corsair and watched most of the Zero. What I saw is pretty cool stuff. I bought'em in hopes of getting some air-to-air gunnery footage, of which there is some but not as much as I had hoped. The rest of it is a pleasant surprise, particularly the walk-around and in-flight of the Zero. If you guys haven't picked up a copy or two of the series from amazon.com, you may want to add it to your Christmas list.
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I sent those two a new book for WWII aircraft. It ought to be a major improvement over their old material :)
(http://www.avshop.com/productimages/products/4197-300.jpg)
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LOL! I love the way they jump on the "Stall limiter isn't available" mistake vulcan made and completely overlook the fact that tardcase had no idea what configuration he was testing.
BTW vulcan, you may want to let them know that the stall limiter does not change the flight model other than limiting your AoA. Basically, preventing the more rapid departure that tardcase was looking for, but also limiting the overall maneuverability of the aircraft (making it a disadvantage overall). Combat trim has the same behavior at times.
MiniD
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If it's the same guy behind the same name, hes been a tard for years.
Always tried to be in effect.