Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hazed- on August 08, 2003, 08:51:13 AM
-
OK heres the present problem.
Its hard enough getting people to all cooperate for anything in here and often to get a mission going takes a lot more effort than was intented i think by HTC.
I think the idea was that we could all set up and rol missions and for it to help us work together.Missions are a lot of fun and when someone does take the time to set one up its usually enjoyed by all in it.
Heres the problem lately, Someone sets up a mission and almost as soon as they have launched their target area fills with me262s or La7s usually looking for an easy kill of goons etc.
The reason can only be either incredible coincidence or some moron has used 2 accounts and uses the inside information to gain position on the incoming attack.
Worse still are an organised attack by a group of players wit some player on the other team telling them where to go.
What are these people on? They are gaming the game so they can get easy kills for themselves but in the process usually ruining the other peoples fun, putting them off ever trying them again and usually making them want to do the same dirty trick to get back at the ones who spied.
what good is this doing us all? absolutely no good at all.
Theres the arguement 'in war there are spies' or other such lame excuses for their cheating but i the war they didnt have spies with access to full plans 10 minutes before a raid and perfect instant comunication with the other sidewho, in turn didnt have to rely on a single player in a c47 to capture bases, this game is nothing like the real process.
Its a game and as such playing by rules is what CREATES the game or makes it worth playing. To use illegal moves in a game like chess or backgammon might make you appear to win but in the end you have actually 'WON' nothing!.
I guess what im getting at is that cheating or gaming the game is a sad way to behave in here. For those that wish to play this game with an equal amount of information as any other player AH is becoming rather silly. I mean honestly, if you was sitting opersite a guy playing cards and he is consistantly trying new ways to cheat you would soon get bored out of your mind! He may be thinking 'hahah ive beaten him again with my clever trick' but you would be thinking 'what a tool, I know what hes doing and theres no way to win unless I cheat as well'.Well thank you very much but i dont want to cheat or game the game because then the whole thing is pointless.
I dont want to know where the enemy is by any other means than what the GAME displays. What im asking here is that those players who DO use spying or tricks to fool the game or players to just stop and think about how truelly pointless and sad it is in the end. You may get your cheap win but no one is fooled by it when everyone knows how its been done.
for instance when you fly an under radar mission several sectors only to find 2 or 3 La7s all waiting at 500 foot or so hunting for your C47s and usually finding them due to knowing their waypoints.
Its getting so no one uses the waypoints in missions to plan, they have even had to quickly change a launch base just before starting in order to throw off the people reading the map room info. This causes all flights to default to hanger take off too so again the organised players suffer for it.
Anyhow I guess im just asking for a bit of fair play from these people. Dont sneak about and trick your way into winning! Most people who like to join missions would be perfectly happy to organise battles or even 'meeting' of 2 missions, for instance one country launches bombers the other country makes an intercept mission. This sort of thing is FINE!! Its not like the missions are always trying to avoid a fight but when they are designed to avoid radar they are supposed to be SECRET to that particular country.If the planner already knows the other country can see all his plans they wouldnt bother trying to stay under radar detection would they? If you see what i mean i hope you will also understand why im just asking politely for a bit of a change in attitude. We cant in any way monitor behaviour, but we can ask for a bit of honesty while we do play. If you dont play honestly I really believe you are damaging the game and its future success.
The more players join and discover that most of the features are not worth using, like mission planning and joining the more will choose not to stay (if this is what attracted them to the game in the first place of course).
Ill just finish by saying that i for one will never use information given to me by a player on another country whos trying to spoil a mission he can see. I have no desire to win anything in this game by cheating or gaming the game. If you would like to set up some missions where the targets ARE KNOWN to all then I will willingly set them up as long as players in both countries missions are aware the other side knows it. These can be fun too, but when a player wants to use under radar methods or needs suprise in order for success then I dont want to see their missions ruined by someone who decides spying is part of the game.It isnt and its a bit rich trying to claim it is, :)
pointless asking? I guess so but you never know.......
-
While I agree with your frustrations and concerns nothing will change. There are next to no tools to fix it and gamers will be just that. So you might want to try and ambush the dweeby busherwackers. Call out for as mission, set it up and have it run but have a 2nd team in thw wings on a "silent" mission to smack down the spies and those they called to "up" to intercept the bait.
-
This big red bar next to an undefended base is usually the best indicator a retarded 40 against none mission is inbound.
MiniD
-
Private briefing rooms would help.
Also give the owner of the mission the ability to boot people from the room.
BTW I know what you mean by the la7s waiting at 500 ft for C47's. Tuesday I spen 45 min flying the long way around to target only to be spotted by an La7 on the back side of a island that was still 2 sectors away from tgt. It was my fault for giving pos reps on country channel rather than squad.
-
Not exactly an endemic problem as I see it....................
Some may consider "winning" by avoiding combat gaming too......... mileages vary (tm someone)
However its pretty easy to 2nd guess where the goons will be (either behind the mass of incomings or taking some route that "might" be away from the action).
When you see an opposition group become mission biased you can see the group move from mission to mission............
They rarely make a mission into an area of the map which is already under conflict, and when all of a sudden the mission group does not make a big dar bar some where you can assume a likelyhood of an NOE approach. In big isles this is easier because the bar dar sometimes flickers (in a sector with no AC base) on and off as the odd mission member pops in and out of dar.
Then it's time to launch the La7 / 262 to cherry pick the low incomings.
-
What his real point is, I think, have some honor and pride in yourself. Anyone with any personal honor would not tell whatever country he is flying for what the others in an opposing contry are doing, even if he knew through the use of two accounts or having someone on another team tell him because they was mad at their countrymen.
I have personally seen messages on channel 1 telling people where porking missions was going. Rather than use that information to defeat the mission I went to another base, several did not and defeated the mission after which there was considerable ranting on channel 1.
I have flown all three countries and have changed countries even while missions were in the planning stages or in the map room and you will never find anyone that will tell you that ab8aac gave them information about what was going on in the country he came from.
-
once you leave the pure combat envelope and get into dweeby missun stuff you are bound to get things like spys and suicide porkers and such to go along with the whole timid (as deja so elequently puts it) 40 against none missunz to kill toolsheds.
lazs
-
hazed-
Your not going to find honor on the internet.
The best you can do is thwrt their efforts.
When we launch a mission, we never tell the pilots where it's lanuching from, and we never give out the target in advance.
Whenever possible, we take a route where one cannot determine where we are going from 2-3 bases that are possible targets.
The players in the mission get their target right before we make the last turn in.
Though not fool proof, the above does help. Also, many times, we will send 2-4 planes off toward a base we are not planning on hitting, just to set off the dar bar and draw the enemy resources away from the main strike.
Hope some of this helps. I've throughly enjoyed your missions in the past.
PS. Never use waypoints, or designate a target on the mission itself...but I think you know this already.
-
i was gona say what muck said, on some missions the target is changed 2-3 times in route.
spies are part of war.
trick the tricksters.
44MAG
-
I think Lazs and Tilt are right on this. As long as the prime objective is land capture, there will be those who will use any means available to grab bases and stop others from doing it. If the objective was to beat the enemy in a fight, all this nonesense we have to put up with will become pointless.
An enemy country might have 100 bases, with only ten of these in contention (hostilities in the area). So someone designs a mission to sneak into a unoccupied area to capture an unprotected base. But a spy rats on them and their attack is thwarted. This wouldn't matter if the countries were bent on winning a fight rather than grabbing real estate.
Underhanded tactics have always been a part of the game, and it's up to the community to deal with it. In the past we did this by taunting and humiliating these type of players on channel one. But in AH this can't happen because these tactics are considered appropriate to gain the prime objective. We have set the standards for game play and must now accept things like spies, porkers, auger dweebs, runners, alt monkeys, cherry pickers, milk runners, etc.
-
So... somebody is using multiple accounts to watch the war and place enough resistance at a base to thwart a milkrun attack...
Not worth worrying about, IMHO.
-
Originally posted by Tilt
Not exactly an endemic problem as I see it....................
Some may consider "winning" by avoiding combat gaming too......... mileages vary (tm someone)
However its pretty easy to 2nd guess where the goons will be (either behind the mass of incomings or taking some route that "might" be away from the action).
When you see an opposition group become mission biased you can see the group move from mission to mission............
They rarely make a mission into an area of the map which is already under conflict, and when all of a sudden the mission group does not make a big dar bar some where you can assume a likelyhood of an NOE approach. In big isles this is easier because the bar dar sometimes flickers (in a sector with no AC base) on and off as the odd mission member pops in and out of dar.
Then it's time to launch the La7 / 262 to cherry pick the low incomings.
ahh i see its time to go cherry picking and NOT defend against the 40 people in the mission?
ahh i see thats how it works is it? so when people say they like to furball they really mean they like to go hunting goons ? :)
this is the exact behaviour that sucks. Rather than put something together to face those large missions head on people would rather seek to ruin them by nipping at the heels of a few goons.
yeah the missions are the real spoilers of fun aint they lol.
aac you hit the nail mate, i guess i am hoping for a bit of "honour amongst the theives", its pointless but i just want them to know it doesnt impress anyone.Just asking for overall 'fair play ' attitude.try not to game the game just because you can.
I posted this mainly because on private channel yesterday in the MA someone told me the launch base number and target of a mission in order to spoil it and I dont want to know info from what i consider cheating means.Not interested in winning by cheating because it then isnt a win at all.I may as well paint a wall to get that level of satisfaction.
Its not too common that it has ruined the game but someones doing it an awful lot more than most of us for it to have continued to be done so often.Maybe theres a few 2 accounters who might think 'you know what it is a sad thing to do' and stop doing it? who knows , we can only hope ;)
-
<<>>
grizz , you forgot to mention "furball dweebs"
-
"<<>> grizz , you forgot to mention "furball dweebs"
Wah_luh! Just add that last ingredient and now you got yourself the recipe for "Main a Reena du Jour" as seen in AW, FA, WB's and AH.
-
"but i the war they didnt have spies with access to full plans 10 minutes before a raid and perfect instant comunication with the other side"
Dude! Read a history book. Heck you might even learn something.
After the allies broke enigma, they knew every attack ordered by the German high command - instantly - before it was even launched!
The same was true when we broke the Japanese Purple code - we knew Midway was the target weeks before it happened.
At least whine with some intelligence - oh my a pun!
Or is that an oxymoron? An intelligent whine - yah oxymoron.
The more resistance the merrier - bring it on!
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
Though not fool proof, the above does help. Also, many times, we will send 2-4 planes off toward a base we are not planning on hitting, just to set off the dar bar and draw the enemy resources away from the main strike.
I don't think I'll ever understand the desire to avoid enemy planes or fighting in this game. This just baffles me.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't think I'll ever understand the desire to avoid enemy planes or fighting in this game. This just baffles me.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Levi....it's really simple....they are Lamb Killers.
Anything with teeth and they are gone.
-
Hazed, the best way to stop that is just to make them public by the country that receives the information.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
once you leave the pure combat envelope and get into dweeby missun stuff you are bound to get things like spys and suicide porkers and such to go along with the whole timid (as deja so elequently puts it) 40 against none missunz to kill toolsheds.
lazs
whine alert.
-
I think Mini-D pretty much said it best. What makes you think that it wasn't the Dar Bar that gave away your mission? As soon as you see a large enemy 'dar bar in a sector, you know it's a mission inbound and the way most people fly in here, it's very easy to predict their route and then set up an interception.
I guess it's easier to blame others for a failed mission than on yourself.
ack-ack
-
Had a strange encounter last night. We had a missun goin with only 10 in it. Ofcourse it was a missun to break up the regular routine. So we upped 109e4 and stukas. Well during our climb out along comes 2 cons on dar. We were still in a friendly sector so all they could see was a dar bar. Then we noticed that they are not looking for us they know where we are exactly and are making a b line straight for us. Not in visual range yet we press on and they are hot on our tail. So the 109s head towards the threat to meet them. Its a temp and a 109g series. the temp engages 5 109e's but we notice that the 109 presses on joined by a p38 now heading straight for the stukas which our not in visual range. To make along story short we questioned how they knew exactly where we were. Answer: "We saw how slow the dar bar was moving and figured it was bombers."
I must admit that was an interesting answer... Never seen dar move slowly.
-
cant stop the spy. its the .wingman thing they use to target the goons or the buffs that piss me off.
-
no biggie. it's a game
-
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't think I'll ever understand the desire to avoid enemy planes or fighting in this game. This just baffles me.
-- Todd/Leviathn
LOL me neither... :)
And its really bizzare and sad how thuroughly this mindset has permeated the player base as of late...
BTW I hear some of em call it "straturdgy." :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't think I'll ever understand the desire to avoid enemy planes or fighting in this game. This just baffles me.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Poor Levi. Let me explain. It's the holy grail, it's "strateeeegery".
There. Got it?
;)
-
This place is getting more and more like a schoolyard every day.
:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't think I'll ever understand the desire to avoid enemy planes or fighting in this game. This just baffles me.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Heh I am all for fighting but when 40 planes are inbound and its just you and 2 friends.....its time to find someplace else to go. That may be coming in behind the horde and taking on stragglers, but to stand in the front of the freight train steaming right at you and trying to put up resistance isnt too smart.
Hazed..... I believe that this has got to be the most ridiculous complaint I have ever seen on this board. I mean.....for Cod's sake.....are we not allowed to kill goons now?!?!
-
Well I guess i'll just have to Ruin the Bishorcs Spy here and reveil its name..... ( i followed this spy all over the place and it did not fly at all, it just kept moving to the next rook base that they planed to hit .... ) Ahhh just think of the 15 bucks wasted for this one.....
And the Winning name of the Bish's Spy Is...... Candi
Go look at its stats for the this tour and last mo's tour .
(they used it to spy on bolth Rooks and Knits)
Sorry Bishorcs but if you need a spy to win bases when you got Numbers advantage Well ......maybe you should go play RA 2 they have lots of cheats in the game.
-
To answer the original question:
Crack, and it feels good!
-
Originally posted by sling322
Heh I am all for fighting but when 40 planes are inbound and its just you and 2 friends.....its time to find someplace else to go.
Sling, I believe that is "counter strateegery". However, it also plays into the hands of the "strateegery" guys; it accomplishes their goal of bloodless conquest.
;)
-
Originally posted by sling322
Heh I am all for fighting but when 40 planes are inbound and its just you and 2 friends.....its time to find someplace else to go. That may be coming in behind the horde and taking on stragglers, but to stand in the front of the freight train steaming right at you and trying to put up resistance isnt too smart.
We're not talking about a couple planes avoiding a flight of 40. We're talking about the flight of 40 avoiding you.
-
Originally posted by jamusta
Had a strange encounter last night. We had a missun goin with only 10 in it. Ofcourse it was a missun to break up the regular routine. So we upped 109e4 and stukas. Well during our climb out along comes 2 cons on dar. We were still in a friendly sector so all they could see was a dar bar. Then we noticed that they are not looking for us they know where we are exactly and are making a b line straight for us. Not in visual range yet we press on and they are hot on our tail. So the 109s head towards the threat to meet them. Its a temp and a 109g series. the temp engages 5 109e's but we notice that the 109 presses on joined by a p38 now heading straight for the stukas which our not in visual range. To make along story short we questioned how they knew exactly where we were. Answer: "We saw how slow the dar bar was moving and figured it was bombers."
I must admit that was an interesting answer... Never seen dar move slowly.
Unless you were flying below radar coverage or in a dead spot, your dots would have shown up in the sector, so that's how the probably figured out it was you. And the guys answer about the dar bar is pretty accurate. If you see a dar bar move from sector to sector slowly, then you pretty much know it's either a fighter grabbing altitude or a formation of bombers. And depending on the direction of travel of the 'dar bar you can pretty much tell if it's a figher or bomber. If the dar bar moves from sector to sector towards a strat target or a base in the rear area, most likely it will be a bomber formation.
If you can see dots on your radar map, you can be pretty sure that the other sides can see them too and vector to you for the intercept.
ack-ack
-
I thought the dots only appear when you are within their bases radar range? Am I wrong? We were still 2 sectors away from any enemy field. We were heading for their cv north of one of our bases that was still one sector away. No doubt that the darbar showed it was a missun. But I know they couldnt see our cons on the clipboard. I hit the radar button on the clipboard to see if we were in range. It was just a strange coincidence..No biggie. The p38 got shot down the 109 ran from me and i never seen what happened to the temp.
-
Well here's my input. Now I've never heard of this happening. The closest thing I've heard is that someone had saw a large dar bar and diverted there squadron to defend. To me thats just being aware of whats going on across the spectrum or in your general area.
If this is in fact a problem one thing that could be used to fix this issue is only allowing a persons IP or Code there logon so that they can only join one side per night. Now I'm sure there'd be ways around this if someone is willing to pay 30 dollars a month or more to spy. But how many folks would really do this. Maybe get a buddy to do it and relay info across another voice chat program. But when it comes to that kind of situation you have no defense against it. Thats just a matter of integrity on the individuals who choose not to fight the fair fight.
If nothing can be done the folks who have integrity will still fight with pride and fight till theres nothing left.
-
most of the tardness started when the price dropped to $14.95 ...
just sayin...
-
Originally posted by lazs2
once you leave the pure combat envelope and get into dweeby missun stuff you are bound to get things like spys and suicide porkers and such to go along with the whole timid (as deja so elequently puts it) 40 against none missunz to kill toolsheds.
lazs
Maybe we could solve it by moving the fields closer together.
-
People spy... old complaint... HTC will never do squat about it... people will continue to be retards. Same'o Same'o AH stuff.
-
Originally posted by sling322
Heh I am all for fighting but when 40 planes are inbound and its just you and 2 friends.....its time to find someplace else to go. That may be coming in behind the horde and taking on stragglers, but to stand in the front of the freight train steaming right at you and trying to put up resistance isnt too smart.
Pansy.
SOB
-
I think some of you are kind of missing the point of the thread. Basically its just asking for a bit of honesty in your game.
If someone is giving info then tell them to P*ss off :) just play the game how the rules of the game want you to.We will all get a better game experience if people didnt always try to use every trick method they can to win that measily kill. From induced warp to hiding carriers its all crap and so lame it amazes me anyone would want to bother.
If you really want fights all the time then private message me and ask for a 'type' of mission you desire.we'll agree on numbers and set up a huge fight.
We'll agree to fly say 20 bombers+ 10 escorts to a certain target and on your side you set up 25 fighters to attack them. If all players are AWARE of what the fight will be like they will have fun rather than getting frustrated at the sudden appearance of an unexpected and uneplainable force like when you have hidden from radar but find people already on their way for your goons.
Then guess what you could reverse roles and do the same for the other country. You might say 'ahh crap no one would do it' but if it was done just think, you will have an area known to all where you are garenteed a fight.No mindless searching for them like now.This is something i for one would like and im sure others would like to see.What if we did one huge mission to the center of the map, each country fielding 30 fighters or so and set the missions up so they all arrive together at a fair altitude, Then its furball time!! :)
why not use our energies to do this sort of thing rather than trying to discover how long we can hide a damn aircraft carrier off map!?
My point is play fair and your wins/kills are all the more rewarding.
for asking something so simple theres again an awful lot of people trying to make me out the villian for asking it. Why so hostile? perhaps you use these very methods to gain an upper hand? makes you wonder.
-
Originally posted by sling322
Heh I am all for fighting but when 40 planes are inbound and its just you and 2 friends.....its time to find someplace else to go. That may be coming in behind the horde and taking on stragglers, but to stand in the front of the freight train steaming right at you and trying to put up resistance isnt too smart.
Hazed..... I believe that this has got to be the most ridiculous complaint I have ever seen on this board. I mean.....for Cod's sake.....are we not allowed to kill goons now?!?!
what if you were to plan a mission to intercept that horde with an equal 40 people? :) if we did organise a bit more battles like this might be commonplace.
Its a 'dreamworld' hope for this sort of cooperation online but I still would like to see it. goon thing answered above >>>
-
Originally posted by hazed-
what if you were to plan a mission to intercept that horde with an equal 40 people? :)
Because the "mission" guys dont care about defending a base being ganged. They are already on their way to gang an undefended enemy base.
:D
-
When I see a big bar appear at an enemy field I watch carefully, I will mention it on chnnl 2. Usually that results in next to no response.
If I am close enough to the bar I may go an investigate from high alt. Often that will end up with me diving into the horde, dying or fleeing with a broken plane. Only to reup and go goon hunting.
Trying to get an anti-mishun mishun up, takes too much time. By the time anyone realizes you are for real, the first wave is within a few minutes of diving in. As the only defender... I'll do whats neccessary to save the base... kill goons. a 50 plane base capp'n mishun can be stopped by killing the 1,2,3,4,5 or however many goons. And its nice to pee em off too!
The mishun will toss itself against the base, and as the enemy augers or dies, the mass slowly depletes itself as they move onto some other even less defended target that MIGHT be easier.
SKurj
-
I have to agree, ay least in part.
While the fustration of the occurance can really be troublesome, spying is a part of war, it has always been a part of war. Where ever there is a war there IS spying.
For the most part most players resort to spying because they are, or have, gotten walked over and feel the need to add a low blow to the situation to get back on top or out from under the succession's thumb.
The FACT that spying is going on will teach the players\squads on how to avoid this, no less then in real war.
If a spy has gotten into a situation to know enough to be harm, then your mission is sloppy.
Design codes and names for channels so that you can announce to change to a designated channel. example,
anim: All squad members turn to alpha3 which could mean channel 156. Use odd numbers, never something like 222.
This is a part of war, the more your tatics become more professional like, the more players will want to be a part of it.
It's not up to the player to stop using the tactic, however a low sportsmenship, it's up to the defender of the ploy to design his missons to avoid the problem in the first place. This is part of realism.
Why were you shot down>? because at some point you made a mistake and made your 6 available.
If you make too much information available then whose fault is it really>? Some info will get through. Prepare your attack to deal with it.
It's not entirely inappropriate to kill a fly with a sledge hammer.
anim
-
So when I up an La 7 and go goon hunting, its because a spy told me?
Damn, and all this time I thought it was the 30 idiots porking a base, flying at 20k en route, massive dar bar, and low, slow moving dot on the horizon that let me know that someone was trying to take a field.
Thanks for clearing this up hazed!
-
Theres the arguement 'in war there are spies' or other such lame excuses for their cheating but i the war they didnt have spies with access to full plans 10 minutes before a raid and perfect instant comunication with the other sidewho, in turn didnt have to rely on a single player in a c47 to capture bases, this game is nothing like the real process.
UHHH exactly. Lame excuses. Some noob was saying that on the country channel he was gonna go spy on the bish. I told him not to because whether we like it or not in this game spying is technically cheating. He said "SO? IN REAL WAR THERE ARE SPIES!?!?!?" Yeah, but this is a game...
It is almost funny...they are such excuses. For all you spies out there, learn how to fight like a man.
-
Originally posted by acepilot2
He said "SO? IN REAL WAR THERE ARE NO FAIR FIGHTS!?!?!?"
Yeah, but this is a game...
It is almost funny...they are such excuses. For all you lamer wimp nadless hordemonkeys out there out there, learn how to fight like a man.
sorry to paraphrase, but i simply couldn't resist.
i laugh at the whole hamstard wheel. and enjoy all aspects at times. but gawd, so many clueless leading the noobs.
-
If someone is spending another $15 to have a second account to spy then I consider that a voluntary tax on the stupid.
-
If you will apply several easy routines when making mission, it will help to make percentage of intercepts before the target close to minimum.
a) Never say the base your are up from and base you hit until the mission starts. Even then say it at mission channel only.
b) Always plan having second base/target in mind, if before the start of mission situation changed unfavourably, change start base and go for second target. Best to have those 2 tagers quite far away from each other, so if it is spying, guys who are up at other side will be bit frustrated looking for you where you are not.
c) If you go over dar make sure it is in a part of map where other side is not looking. OR hide your dar with long friendly dar in sector.
d) Always consider NOE.
e) There is spying, but not so many. Not every time you are out of luck, it is spying.
My last 30+ strat missions were successful, without a single case of what I think could be a spying. I saw spying before, but it is rather exceptions than rule. If you plan wisely, chances to be intercepted before you get alt/speed are not that big.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
most of the tardness started when the price dropped to $14.95 ...
just sayin...
Thats why if you raised the price to $140.95 all the tards would go away. Everyone knows rich folks are better suited to fly AH. Dont you think montly Income could just replace the Rank system?
OK, Im just poking a little fun at ya, But the price isnt the problem. Perhaps a larger player base might be a contributing factor. That also comes from advertising, better sim and many other factors.
IMHO Capture the Flag or you might call it Land Grab is a major factor. Its the Goal set by HTC in the MA. So if your playing AH in the MA then capturing bases is what is encouraged. Sadly its not Air Combat, its Land grab. AC is something that is only a by product.
Overall, I have few problems with AH. I do wish you could get into more balanced fights, but it does make the ones you find all the more memorable.
-
spuying isn't a problem for me it is my big mouth i was teasing the bish last night when i put together huge mission to defend 80 i got 20 262s in the mission and bunch of 109la7 all those dweeb planes.just my big mouth that ruins my missions. btw ive spied on bish before (only spent 1 hour over there) they did no missions or any of that stuff so i just got a tigr out and just started killin rooks all day until i when back to knights which then when i came back i went into a huge furball just to be shot down 20 times by some flaks
skull12
-
I think it was the name you gave the mission that doomed it from the outset. Not many would want to fly in a mission named 'Golden Shower'.
ack-ack
-
Ok so what's the issue with spying?
When I flew AW, I used to give my position over Ch 1 so people could find me and then I could kill them.
I didn't have to fly for 30 minutes to find a fight - it came to me in a horde.
The best battles are not the ones that were sneaked and stolen when the enemy was busy somewhere else and not paying attention.
It's the knife fights, those fights that cut and churn, take all your attention and skill, and your heart beats faster because the other guy is good. It's the challenge of fighting the best and beating the best.
The victory worth celebrating is the struggle which could go either way. Still your side prevails, made that extra effort, fought smarter, fought harder. and perhaps an ounce more luck.
So what if the other side knows where we are at and what we are doing.....
All I have to say to them is..... BRING IT ON!
To do otherwise would mean a life of mediocrity and ho-hum.
We are men of air and steel. We fight with molten metal. We live in the wind and die in flames.
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I think it was the name you gave the mission that doomed it from the outset. Not many would want to fly in a mission named 'Golden Shower'.
ack-ack
That explains alot!
This explains why so few joined Op:Arabian Goggles, Op:Hot Carl, Op:Glassbottom boat.
And no one showed up for Op: Cleveland steamer.
Go figure.:confused:
-
Originally posted by Eagler
most of the tardness started when the price dropped to $14.95 ...
just sayin...
:D Naw...... When the price was higher we just had a more elitist bunch of tards. :rolleyes:
-
I know the feeling. I launched a mission adn like any new comer I told everyone where I was going in hopes of getting some fighter escorts on the return trip of my long range bombing mission. I spent 3 hours in flight looping around radar. Had no bases blinking nothing. The only thing blinking was my target. I was deep behind enemy lines over 200 miles. I got close to my target and my alt was 35k and low and behold I had 6 enemy fighters waiting for me. Some might say well jet aircraft can get that high really quick. OK but out of the six there was one 262, on 163, 2 P40e and the rest where spitfires. They maintained a pattern around my target waiting for me. It is stuff like that ruins peoples fun. I flew 3 hours and was never detected or spotted just have someone rat me out over my target. my best advice to ensure it doesnt happen to you is to what my squad the 92nd Bomber Group does. We do squad missions and we do not announce where we are goin g or what we are doing until we are coming back.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
most of the tardness started when the price dropped to $14.95 ...
just sayin...
Freakin snob ... baaahhh.
Originally posted by Blue Mako
If someone is spending another $15 to have a second account to spy then I consider that a voluntary tax on the stupid.
Hehehe... bingo! :D
-
Originally posted by BNM
Freakin snob ... baaahhh.
Hehehe... bingo! :D
LOL
so you think they'd spend another $30 to spy?
lowerin the price lowered the standard - happens in everything
-
Originally posted by Warchief
I know the feeling. I launched a mission adn like any new comer I told everyone where I was going in hopes of getting some fighter escorts on the return trip of my long range bombing mission. I spent 3 hours in flight looping around radar. Had no bases blinking nothing. The only thing blinking was my target. I was deep behind enemy lines over 200 miles. I got close to my target and my alt was 35k and low and behold I had 6 enemy fighters waiting for me. Some might say well jet aircraft can get that high really quick. OK but out of the six there was one 262, on 163, 2 P40e and the rest where spitfires. They maintained a pattern around my target waiting for me. It is stuff like that ruins peoples fun. I flew 3 hours and was never detected or spotted just have someone rat me out over my target. my best advice to ensure it doesnt happen to you is to what my squad the 92nd Bomber Group does. We do squad missions and we do not announce where we are goin g or what we are doing until we are coming back.
Warchief Do you think your invisable. You fly near enemy Hq. and think there was spy lolloololollolololololoolol. You will see enemy up to kill HQ buff all day long.
You were on radar whole time. Your plane put up a count bar. Everyone know what area you were in.
-
Originally posted by Fariz
If you will apply several easy routines when making mission, it will help to make percentage of intercepts before the target close to minimum.
And there it is.
I am also baffled as to why so many people spend good $$ on an air combat sim simply to avoid air combat.
And if it's "realism" and a strategic challenge you are after, you should be broadcasting all of your missions to channel 1 and hoping that a decent defence is mounted - isn't that where the fun is?
-
Never mind
-
"...Because the "mission" guys dont care about defending a base being ganged. They are already on their way to gang an undefended enemy base. ...".
Exactly. The last thing the mission types want to do is fight a fair fight against other mission types.
yowser
-
Originally posted by Roscoroo
And the Winning name of the Bish's Spy Is...... Candi
Go look at its stats for the this tour and last mo's tour .
(they used it to spy on bolth Rooks and Knits)
I looked at the stats and I disagree with your analysis.
Candi logged 14-hours or so last campaign. Has 14-captures, one of which I am personally familiar required a 50-minute drive. I was bishop at the time, and that accounts for about an hour. I flew for near to 30-hours that weekend and help Candi capture a couple of other bases over the course of the day.
I'm going to be defensive here because I know the person. From what you're saying, its perfectly reasonable to be considered a spy if...you are new to sims, new to the game, have a PC that isn't top of the line, fly with a mouse, and share the account with a couple of kids.
I just can't state how strongly I feel about folks that know next to nothing about what they are speaking and boldly offer up "evidence" to support a groundless statement.
The rules of the forum won't allow me to describe your behavoircal characteristics, prefences, orientation or the maritial relationship of your parents in terms you'd be more likely to understand, however; it should be sufficient to say that unless you had real information, you shouldn't mention other folks names in this fashion.
-
Originally posted by empty
I looked at the stats and I disagree with your analysis.
Candi logged 14-hours or so last campaign. Has 14-captures, one of which I am personally familiar required a 50-minute drive. I was bishop at the time, and that accounts for about an hour. I flew for near to 30-hours that weekend and help Candi capture a couple of other bases over the course of the day.
I'm going to be defensive here because I know the person. From what you're saying, its perfectly reasonable to be considered a spy if...you are new to sims, new to the game, have a PC that isn't top of the line, fly with a mouse, and share the account with a couple of kids.
I just can't state how strongly I feel about folks that know next to nothing about what they are speaking and boldly offer up "evidence" to support a groundless statement.
The rules of the forum won't allow me to describe your behavoircal characteristics, prefences, orientation or the maritial relationship of your parents in terms you'd be more likely to understand, however; it should be sufficient to say that unless you had real information, you shouldn't mention other folks names in this fashion.
I agree and think an apology is in order, the direct charge of cheating is out of order, the proof given is not enough nor is it acceptable. When you charge someone in this manner without proof it is in my opinion that you should be given a leave of absence from the game, however it's not my game.
Roscorro, you sir are no better then a cheater yourself, grow up.
-
Originally posted by Rude
Levi....it's really simple....they are Lamb Killers.
Anything with teeth and they are gone.
You'll soon find out that is one of the big pissers of flying in Knitwitland.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Eagler
LOL
so you think they'd spend another $30 to spy?
lowerin the price lowered the standard - happens in everything
That's so stupid it doesn't even require a response.
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You'll soon find out that is one of the big pissers of flying in Knitwitland.
So true...
-
I had some idiot Bishop named Crin accuse me of having a 2nd account to use to spy because there's a player named YakYak.
Personally, I think most of these cries of spy are made out of pure stupidity and the lack of any commen sense, just like Crin's accusations.
Ack-Ack
-
Plain and simple. Spying does happen. But don't go anround and accuse peopel of it. To those who do it, it needs to stop. Bottom line pick a side. If you want to spy because you cant go out and find a target to hit or someone to dogfight and you don't want to fly and find something like the rest of us. Well then dont play.
-
Since it isn't my $14.95, I really don't care how everyone else plays the game. Easier not to worry about it since you can't change it. Does anyone really believe that pointing out the moral and/or ethical faults of those who spy is going to change their lives?
It'll be on Ophra, how reading the AH BBS saved me from being a tool of evil....give me a break.
Sit down, shut up and kill something....
-
Hey empty, haven't seen ya up for awhile. I'm on days now so maybe thats not so unusual. Maybe catch ya on a weekend.:D
-
Just another reason to shoot every chute.
-
if you use the 200 voice channels you can talk to other side . dont know if it works in MA i know it does in the Dueling arena but was talking to sqd mates. either way it is lame, that is why i shoot chutes when they sit on fields and near towns telling what is going on. those are what i call spies
-
Originally posted by Samiam
And there it is.
I am also baffled as to why so many people spend good $$ on an air combat sim simply to avoid air combat.
And if it's "realism" and a strategic challenge you are after, you should be broadcasting all of your missions to channel 1 and hoping that a decent defence is mounted - isn't that where the fun is?
Fun is where people have fun. If someone's mission is joined regularly by many people, if that mission maker's missions are popular, and same people join his mission time after time, during months and years, probably they have fun? Or you can think that 1/3 of total players are masochists?
Your problem (as well as problem of some people who posted here already) is inability to understand that fun is different for different people. Some people love pure fight, some love taking bases, some love both. There are also score guys. For some team playing is playing for country, for some team is their squads, for some team is only themselve. Whatever mission you make, the strat one, the furball one or mixed type, you will get people in your mission. Now, the problem is how GOOD you can understand what type of mission you are making, and how good you can make sure that you make your mission to be exactly what you planned.
For example, pure strat mission shall be aimed where it is needed. Strat players do not love to spend so many time to get base which can be taken by 2 people without any mission. It means, that mission will meat a resistance, other way it is no need to bring so many people. Furball guys do not love to have base without fight, they also prefer a good fight to no fight or just the vulching. Score guys want as many kills and destroyed targets as only possible and at a shorter possible time, without being killed.
Now, is it possible to make mission that satisfy everyone? Hardly. But it is possible to plan it the way, when as many people will be satisfied as possible. Because furballers interests are the hardest to satisfy in a strat aimed mission, good mission planner shall make some missions for a pure fun also, or for a pure challenge. But those missions shall be rare, that makes them valuable and something to remember. I am used to be asked to make some mission, like 202 raid, many months after I made them.
Also, the way I saw it in the game thru all those years, it is much more people who care about strat in AH, than you can think when reading those boards. You hardly will find a vocal strat player, while vocal furballers are here in dozens. Saying it other way, we do not have our strat guy equal to laz yet (and I am sure will never have one). I think reason for this is also obvious.
-
And why is this stupid thread still alive?
-
Originally posted by DmdNexus
And why is this stupid thread still alive?
some dork decided to punt it.
-
Originally posted by Fariz
Fun is where people have fun. If someone's mission is joined regularly by many people, if that mission maker's missions are popular, and same people join his mission time after time, during months and years, probably they have fun? Or you can think that 1/3 of total players are masochists?
Your problem (as well as problem of some people who posted here already) is inability to understand that fun is different for different people. Some people love pure fight, some love taking bases, some love both. There are also score guys. For some team playing is playing for country, for some team is their squads, for some team is only themselve. Whatever mission you make, the strat one, the furball one or mixed type, you will get people in your mission. Now, the problem is how GOOD you can understand what type of mission you are making, and how good you can make sure that you make your mission to be exactly what you planned.
For example, pure strat mission shall be aimed where it is needed. Strat players do not love to spend so many time to get base which can be taken by 2 people without any mission. It means, that mission will meat a resistance, other way it is no need to bring so many people. Furball guys do not love to have base without fight, they also prefer a good fight to no fight or just the vulching. Score guys want as many kills and destroyed targets as only possible and at a shorter possible time, without being killed.
Now, is it possible to make mission that satisfy everyone? Hardly. But it is possible to plan it the way, when as many people will be satisfied as possible. Because furballers interests are the hardest to satisfy in a strat aimed mission, good mission planner shall make some missions for a pure fun also, or for a pure challenge. But those missions shall be rare, that makes them valuable and something to remember. I am used to be asked to make some mission, like 202 raid, many months after I made them.
Also, the way I saw it in the game thru all those years, it is much more people who care about strat in AH, than you can think when reading those boards. You hardly will find a vocal strat player, while vocal furballers are here in dozens. Saying it other way, we do not have our strat guy equal to laz yet (and I am sure will never have one). I think reason for this is also obvious.
That was a very good post, Fariz, and well written, considering your first language is not English.
I absolutely agree with what you said in the first paragraph. Different people have their own brand of fun, but some people cannot understand why everyone else does not enjoy their brand of fun. Some of those folks will look at another player's scoreline, and judge that person according to how they play the game, not how that player plays the game. And that's as ridiculous as measuring the output of an orange grove by how many apples it yields. :rolleyes: The other area in which some arguments fail is where players cite a stat or collection of stats, without making an allowance for the number of players that were online at the time. In "US prime time" with 500 or more online, the gameplay pattern can be very different from that to be seen in "Australasian prime time"/Euro daytime, with only about 75 people online.
Your last paragraph also made an excellent point - it's impossible to judge the proportion of players favouring furballing versus the proportion of those preferring strat simply by reviewing this BBS - especially as most AH players do not read it and even fewer post to it. When I flew yesterday (briefly - only 4 sorties) there were about 10 guys who had just captured a field, and were just discussing tactics for attacking the next, which they succeeded in capturing. No mention of furballing, no-one commenting on how many kills per unit of time he had been able to achieve.
The only way that HTC can accurately measure player opinion is by means of the anonymous pop-up polls that are sometimes taken when a player logs on.
-
http://www.fanta.dk/showmovie.asp?mid=DB9CB734-87A7-4EA4-8397-F5B0FB7B1D67
http://www.fanta.dk/showmovie.asp?mid=DD8669A0-CDC3-436A-8219-43BB6F16E57C
:D
-
weavling they were superb! ROFL :)
-
Originally posted by TW9
i find wail and his squad always seem to get inside info on missions.. Just yesterday he intecepted a ju87 raid w/ a couple of his buddies.. There was huge dar bar but he flew directly to our icons as if he knew where exactly where we were in the sector.. But in the end it didnt really ruin my fun.. Ruined mission but i was able to jump on p38s 6 and take em out w/ my ju87 and even managed a shot off on wail's temp b4 he got my eng and 1 of my gears.. At that point i rtb'd.. the p38 said he was fighting a 109 i was the 1st to engage him.. the 109s didnt show up till just b4 i shot him up.. Even if he was fighting 109 why ignore ju87 thats lighting ur rear end up? I mean they only have bb's so u know i was there for a while lol..
I take offense to this. I have flown with Wail and the rest of the 412th for over 2 years. Not once have we ever, in any context, received any insider information regarding missions or enemy locations. Ever. We as a squad have too much pride to sink to such depths. If you have proof, please present it to me and it will be dealt with internally. Otherwise, have a nice warm cup of STFU.