Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MANDOBLE on August 11, 2003, 07:16:14 AM

Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: MANDOBLE on August 11, 2003, 07:16:14 AM
My experience with 190D9 is (over'n over) is as follows:

1 - Your radiator is pinged (Well, the aircraft is pinged anywhere and the radiator gets damaged).
2 - You have 10 or 15 secs with engine working right, temp not over increasing even with WEP ON.
3 - Then the temp will raise at a constant speed, no matter MAN/RPM settings and the engine will die in 2 secs. You can stop the engine, but once started again, the temperature will raise again at the same speed.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: Maverick on August 11, 2003, 10:29:17 AM
Other than the complaint listed as #1 in your post, what part of the modeling is in error???? A lack of coolant WILL cause engine temps to rise in a liquid cooled engine.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: MANDOBLE on August 11, 2003, 11:12:52 AM
I cant understand why the temperature increase rate is equal no matter the RPMs/MAN settings.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: fffreeze220 on August 11, 2003, 12:22:48 PM
There is no real engine modelled in AH. Thats why it just shut down after a certain time. In FB u have loss of power with a burning or leaking engine. eg. IMHO way more fun
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on August 12, 2003, 01:05:35 AM
Ever driven a car leaking coolant and is also NOT circulating the coolant through the engine?

I have, even at idle speeds, the temp raises quickly to the point of blowing the engine - only choice to save the engine is to shut it off and coast while it cools down, turn it on - go a little further - shut it off and coast.
-SW
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: BenDover on August 12, 2003, 07:52:49 AM
radiator + bullet = hole = coolent pissing out of the hole
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: GScholz on August 12, 2003, 08:10:31 AM
Dora had two radiators, so did a lot of WWII fighters, 109s, later Spits. AH only modelles one system for every engine. Design limitation in AH.

The one thing I don't understand about the Dora however is the fact that it has the same cooling times as the radial engined A series. 10 min WEP and 20 min (!) to cool down. Why the Dora dosn't cool like other liquid cooled LW fighters I don't understand.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: funkedup on August 12, 2003, 10:34:22 AM
Both radiators are part of the same cooling system, so that's a moot point.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: john9001 on August 12, 2003, 10:40:55 AM
clip from 'typhoon rad damage" thread.

<<<<<
Coolant leak times are exactly the same for all planes.

It is randomly generated from 30 to 90 secs.


And now mandoble you can start your argument how thats unfair to the 190, and it should leak much slower than all other planes.


HiTech

>>>>>>
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: BenDover on August 12, 2003, 11:01:30 AM
That clip's fake, the spelling's all correct.;)
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: GScholz on August 12, 2003, 11:05:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Both radiators are part of the same cooling system, so that's a moot point.


I don't think so, at least not on the later mark Spits. They had two independant systems AFAIK. Dunno about the Dora, but it would seem unnessesary to thave two semi-circle radiators in the nose if they were conected to the same system. Never the less the point is mute since AH doesn't model more than one system anyway. I still wonder about the cooling time being the same as the radial engined A-series.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: funkedup on August 12, 2003, 11:23:19 AM
There's one coolant circuit through the engine block and one coolant pump for that circuit.  On a system like that, you can have as many radiators as you want, but as long as one of them has a leak, you are going to run out of coolant.

On the Spit you are probably thinking about the oil cooler and the intercooler heat exchanger.  They are basically radiators, but deal with different fluids from different systems.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: Karnak on August 12, 2003, 08:20:11 PM
Funkedup,

He is correct.  On Spits with symetrical radiators there is a valve that closes if there is a preasure drop from one of the radiators.

It is mentioned in "Spitfire, The History" by Eric B Morgan and Edward Shacklady.

I don't where off hand (I seem to recall it being in the Mk IX section), but am too tired to look any harder than I just did right now.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: funkedup on August 12, 2003, 10:26:16 PM
Well sheeyit that's pretty cool.
I wouldn't be surprised if other multi-radiator engine installations on aircraft from other countries had the same feature.
I have been pwn3d by Gscholz.  :)
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 12, 2003, 10:58:15 PM
Yea some 109s had a similar feature though IRRC it was a manual shutoff.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: hazed- on August 13, 2003, 01:27:28 PM
I once told HTC about the fact that even with engine turned off on the typhoon i believe after being hit in the radiator the temprature continued to rise and seize the engine and I distinctly remember HT saying that shouldnt happen and he'll look into it.

Im pretty sure they did do something to fix it but maybe some aircraft still have the 'bug' causing this to happen?

As far as I would imagine you have Liquid cooled engines running at tempretures that keep the engine running, you lose the liquid then the engine tempreture rises to its uncooled level quickly. If you then shut off the engine there is no more combustion so in effect the engine should not increase in tempreture anymore. HOWEVER if the engine was already very hot and lowered through the liquid coolant and you turn off the engine it may well still increase in tempreture for a short period as the liquid coolant is lost. Perhaps with a very fast leak the engine is sent into damaging tempretures long before its able to start cooling through natural heat dispersion?

Isnt there a method of cooling involving evaporation of oil too? Im sure the brits had a few different types of cooling apparatus. id have to look it up tho
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: funkedup on August 13, 2003, 01:41:42 PM
When you shut the engine off, the water pump stops, and the coolant temp will rise.  With a hole in the system, coolant will be boiling off and streaming out of the hole.
Title: How is radiator damage modeled?
Post by: GScholz on August 13, 2003, 03:41:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Well sheeyit that's pretty cool.
I wouldn't be surprised if other multi-radiator engine installations on aircraft from other countries had the same feature.
I have been pwn3d by Gscholz.  :)


Hehe, I wouldn't say pwn3d. :)

I just think it would be a too easy installation not to have if you have more than one radiator. It could be the difference between getting home or ditching.