Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: gofaster on August 13, 2003, 11:56:39 AM
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So last night I upped a C.205 just for kicks, to fly something a little different from everybody else. The Bishops had a base to the south and a small enemy dar bar was down there, so I figured it was probably 1 or 2 guys setting up a jabo run or out on a hunt. I pointed my nose southward and hit the WEP for climbout.
At around 7k I spot a lone dot hiding just below the ridgeline, moving fast. I plot an intercept course and move a little closer until the dot gets bigger. It isn't glistening so I know its not a USAAC P-airplane, then I get ID on it as a 190. I go nose down to get some maneuvering speed in anticipation of the merge, but the 190 isn't interested in dogfighting. Instead, he goes nose-down too and heads straight for my base.
I see him do some rolls, probably to keep an eye on my closure rate, until he's almost on the deck. My plane is vibrating heavily from the overspeed so I know he's gotta be pretty close to his max speed. Once he gets over the airfield he makes a rushed bomb drop, misses everything with his bombs but the ground, and bugs out north on the deck with my little C.205 in pursuit. I get as close as d1.5 but can't get any closer so I go into a slow climb, figuring that now that he's dropped his load he'll simply extend out and come back to fight once he's gotten himself into position.
Wrong.
The FW190 continues north until a rocky peninsula blocks his retreat. I set up a bit to the seaward side to cut the angle if he turns that way, but instead he turns landward so I pull over that way. I miss the the snap shot as he blows by (lousy Italian guns!) and start chasing him again, thinking he's simply setting up for a long extension then will come around.
Wrong again.
He keeps going south, staying fast on the deck, so I radio that I'm in pursuit of a lone FW190 on the deck northwest of the field if anyone wants to come get it. I get no response and by now my tanks are getting dry, so I break off and turn for base. As I'm setting up my landing approach, I zoom out the map to see where I want to up from next, and that's when I notice something very, very interesting.
The base that the FW190 had upped from is now capped by my countryman, leaving the 190 with no safe landing spot. The FW190 was so busy running, he forgot about the enemy fighters he left behind. He had a pretty good-sized greeting party waiting for him when he got home.
I don't know who got the kill, but the FW190 pretty much just wasted his time. If he had engaged me, he had a fair shot at shooting me down and getting a few points out of his flight. Too bad he missed the opportunity.
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If he's a fly-to-live sort, it makes sense. Personally, I'd rather get back and land safely than see how many enemies I can take down with me.
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The thing is, if he's a fly-to-live sort, he never should've run that far north, distancing himself from his own base while keeping mine in between him and his home. If he'd turned and engaged after dropping his bombs, he could've had a shot at me and maybe a strafing run over the field, maybe picking up a vulch or two on the way back home. Its one thing to retreat, its another thing to just keep going in the wrong direction.
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Pretty disgusting isnt it GoFaster...
I understand what your getting at, you have an isolated 1v1 of a C205 vs a FW190 (dora?) Yet the guy wont engage.
I would say if the pilots are of equal skill, the FW should win in the end.
I had the same thing last month, I was in a Hellcat and was chasing a FW. He Turned away from me and I pursued, but his heading was taking him into my teritory. Just like you it was a very isolated 1v1 yet he didnt engage. I chased him for about 3 or 4 sectors before I ran out of Fuel. Never once did he even try to engage, Even when I ditched in the water he didnt even try to vulch me.
I dont mind the Idea of trying to survive. I dont mind running if the odds are against someone. But to have all the advantages and still no engage makes me wonder. I still cant understand not even trying to fight.
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Originally posted by gofaster
The thing is, if he's a fly-to-live sort, he never should've run that far north, distancing himself from his own base while keeping mine in between him and his home. If he'd turned and engaged after dropping his bombs, he could've had a shot at me and maybe a strafing run over the field, maybe picking up a vulch or two on the way back home. Its one thing to retreat, its another thing to just keep going in the wrong direction.
Who knows... a lone wolf mission can be exhilirating... even to a fly-to-live type. :)
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One of the problems this game has is the way things just blow up. Doesnt give much incentive to fight if you know that your opponent has to get one simple hit on you and then there is no fight.
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It'd be pretty funny if the AAR he just wrote on his squad forum went something like:
"... flying on fumes and now down to a mere 4 rounds, I got a lucky snapshot on the last enemy plane, taking off its stabilizer... and I was finally able to land."
:D
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I kept my eye on the Host messages to see who it was, but nobody landed a multi-kill mission in a 190 for the next 15 minutes. ;)
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Oh. :)
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i had a similar probelm fighting rooks yesterday, everytime i got to within 3k or so to anyone they would run. I even had a La7 run from my (yes i upped it to chase them) la7 in a 1 vs 1 situation and i had less E.
Saying that though, i did have an excellent fight with a Spit IX in my F6F, im not exactly experienced in it so he was outturning me pretty easy but i kept managing to make him overshoot, we must have been fighting 1 vs 1 for about 3 minutes with him attacking and me countering, then i had to get home quick as his friends came to help.
rook Spit, most fun fight i've had in a while.
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When I was a WB I'd alternate my tours. One tour was the take all comers and the next was the "to live" tour. Did it for a couple of years in a 190 doin that. It was fun.
I found that with lone wolfing, patience was key, SA was learned fairly easily. Don't take chances, period. I got so I couldn't do it any longer. Run up a streak and rarely die..
No spice, no challenge, no hubba hubba.
I still fly to live but I take alot of chances. Without taking chances I stagnate, I cease to learn, I lose the drive..
If I don't take chances I don't end up on the deck all alone versus four..
I don't kill two of them before I die..
I don't get that feeling of accomplishment of taking out those two..
I don't stagnate..
I live.
Funny how that works..
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The guy sounded like a newbie to me. Judging from your description of his bombing performance, his reaction to your offer to fight and the way he flew home to a capped base I would suspect he is pretty new to the game.
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Yep, what other clues this one was a newbe...
Using a D9 do JABO or not hunting 205's ?? :)
I try to avoid chasing people who don't want to fight, there are way too many people in the area who will fight.
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It seems that after the introduction of that shoot out contest, this type of fighting has become the norm for the MA. I've even seen it in the CT, so they're not immune to this sort of dweebery. To some, I guess getting a high rank is what this game is all about and make the mistake of using their high rank is an indicator of skill level. It's like that short guys and big trucks thing.
An unfortunate byproduct is that the new players see this type of flying and try to copy the rank-potatos, which leads to a degredation of the fights in the arena. That's why ACM is becoming a lost art, after all, as one rank-potato put it, "Why learn ACM when I can game the game."
Completely restructure and organize the training program in AH. Make it a formal thing, similiar to AW and WB's training programs. If new players had a structured and organized training program, instead of the trial by fire they face now, you'd cut down on a lot of this type of behavior. Sure, you'll still get your rank-potato types but at least you'll be showing the new players that there is another option out there and a far more rewarding one. And maybe ACM wouldn't become the lost art it's quickly becoming.
ack-ack
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I,m finding the best way for me to enjoy the game is fly for the one good sortie and forget all the bad stuff.
If a guy runs I call it a win , if he stays and kills me cause he 's was better , still a win cause it was fun.
The only guy I'll run from is lazs , when ever he shoots me down he taunts me on open channel. I can't handle that kind a meaness.
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How do you know it's lazs?
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Originally posted by hogenbor
How do you know it's lazs?
The smell
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I still fly to live but I take alot of chances. Without taking chances I stagnate, I cease to learn, I lose the drive..
Simple but true. Words to live by in AH
I still can't figure out why some people are willing to pay 15$ USD to run and call it fun? Can't you just sign up for a marathon for less than that, or join your local track team?
hmmm...
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One possible solution to the rank BS is to alter the formula to reflect plane type, #'s in arena and kills/sortie. To the best of my knowledge if you had engaged the 190 (we'll assume a D-9) you would of gotten 2+ perkies (assuming even numbers) but only 1 "kill" for ranking (correct me if I'm wrong here).
I'm always amazed at how bad many of the top "scorers" are at ACM and air combat.
The whole nature of the game has altered dramatically over the last 18 months...in many ways for the worse...just my 2 cents. The old dual ranking in AW was a better indicator of rank then the current BS.
Hopefully AHII will be a step in right direction.
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Originally posted by pugg666
Simple but true. Words to live by in AH
I still can't figure out why some people are willing to pay 15$ USD to run and call it fun? Can't you just sign up for a marathon for less than that, or join your local track team?
hmmm...
Marathons will cost approximately $50 to $75 to enter, but $15 will get you a pretty nice 15k, and you'll burn a lot more calories than you would squatting in front of a computer screen doing jabo raids in 190s and avoiding C.205s. :p
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Completely restructure and organize the training program in AH. Make it a formal thing, similiar to AW and WB's training programs. If new players had a structured and organized training program, instead of the trial by fire they face now, you'd cut down on a lot of this type of behavior. Sure, you'll still get your rank-potato types but at least you'll be showing the new players that there is another option out there and a far more rewarding one. And maybe ACM wouldn't become the lost art it's quickly becoming.
ack-ack
I couldn't agree more AKAK. I was a trainer in Air Warrior for the last few weeks before its untimely demise. I've applied and applied and applied and applied to the AH training wing and even to Hammer on netaces and just can't seem to latch on because it seems to me it's not a priority to anyone.
So instead I do what I can, I set up shop one or two nights a week in the TA (late at night, unfortunately...from 11:30pm-3:30am) and gather all the new players who need to learn to fly (not even two weekers, some guys have been paying for some time and havent latched onto a squadron or even learned to land an airplane) and ask for help and we all do the same thing. Up in Spitfire Mk IV's and fly around in formation, introduce them one at a time to basic Air Combat Maneuvers (Yo-Yo, Immelman, Split-S ect...) as guests on my airplane. Then it's a big "follow the leader" in as close formation as you can get where one of the other students will lead the group through loops and rolls. I'll call off pairs and then they will break off and do the formation flights in pairs for another 10 minutes, switch flight leaders and continue for 10 more minutes. Then i'll ask how they feel and if they are comfortable then its time to do some sparring. Call off the pairs and give them "boundaries" to stay in so as not to impede on another pair and i can keep an eye on them and offer tips. The only problem with this is logistics. I don't keep a roster on who flys with me, though I do remember them and occasionally see them land kills in the main arena...which draws a smile and a salute from me. I also am not a member of a formal training group (i.e. AH Training Corps) and don't have any other advanced players (face it, most of the advanced guys are busy running up their scores and the only time most of them care about training is when they find the new guys aren't up to their level) to assist with training these new players. There have been times where guys in the arena stayed up all night (and me too...till the sun came up again...UGH!) because they were learning something that mattered for the first time since the signed up for aces high.
I challenge anyone in this thread or who has played Aces High for more than a year to take on a new player. Be it a mentorship type of thing flying together one or two nights a week in the MA or just a Q&A thing via email it would make a big difference in these players. I'd love to work with HTC with this but they just don't seem to consider training to be important. Im starting to see the TA as a holding tank for players kicked out of the MA by players saying read the manual or press Alt+F4 when all they ask is how to raise the gear.