Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on August 14, 2003, 11:16:45 AM
-
I do not hate the man, but I do not think he is the greatest president either. I think he was the man for the job when 911 happened. I am not sure what Gore would have done, but I am sure it would not have helped much. But I am not going to bash on Dems here.
When Bush took office, one of the first things he tried to do was give amnesty to all illegals in the country. I think it may have been all illegals with a legal relative, but regardless, I think that's wrong. Some of you are going to say we need illegal immigration, that they only do the jobs no one wants. Well, there is truth in that, but it is not the only truth. My dad was a cabinet maker. His shop closed, and when he had to seek work, he could not find any. He was an amazing cabinet maker, but all the shops in the area that where open when he was looking for work, where production shops and didn't need a skilled man with 20 years of custom cabinet work. They wanted illegals, or at least Mexicans cause they didn't have to pay them real money. He ended up in a crappy job, making desktops for cubes.
It is not just the jobs we do not want that illegals take, try finding a job in the trades. I do not think the trades where considered "jobs no one wants to do".
Now I am not anti immigration, I think we should allow people from Mexico and south America come here much more easily, screen them for felonies, and let them come in if they have a job lined up. It seems to me, somewhat immoral, to allow people to come here illegally and then exploit them by paying them less then anyone born here would make. It strikes me as odd that this exploitation is fine with the more left leaning people. Hell my Lib friend last night said "it boils down to how much you want to pay for lettuce." So modify the law and allow for more legal immigration, close the borders and deport the ilegals, would that be so bad?
Another thing about the border being open, does anyone think the homeland security act will make a damn bit of difference when you can practically walk across the border from Mexico? Hell I am sure terrorist could get weapons in across the border and it seems to me it is just a mater of time.
I am disenchanted, I think politics in this country have become too dirty, I think the politicians on both sides are ultra melons. I really do not think most of them give a **** about us. They care about money deals from special interest groups and or getting reelected and personal power, but not us.
Back to Bush, I see some of the left leaning folks on this board go on and on about how we( conservatives and I guess I am more or less) are not being objective, and that Bush can do no wrong. From my point of view that's wrong, I do not care for Bush that much, for me he was the lesser of two evils. If I had a real choice I would probably vote fore someone else, but, so far everyone else is just worse. They way he handled the first part of the war was good in my view, but I am not sure about how it is going now, it pains me to see soldiers dying every day, I go to sites like Hackworth.com and read some of the things our troops have to put up with and it angers me. Is it Bush's fault, well prolly not, but it is his responsibility to make sure they soldiers there are getting what they need and some are not, including proper leadership.
Why has politics become so adversarial? some of the discussions here and others where I have had them become so heated, it amazes me, aren't we all working to make things better for ourselves and our nation?
It seems funny to me that we would base who runs our government on issues like abortion. Hell I am pro-choice. I am pro-choice because though I find it morally wrong, I understand that's subjective and would not force my morals on anyone. If there is a God, people who have abortions will pay when they stand before him, that should be good enough for the right, and the choice should be good left, I just find it unbelievable this is such a big issues. People just need to mind their own business. Why is this like one of the 3 issues that makes or brakes a politician?
I think taxes do not need to be raised I think we could clean up the government and have more then enough money left over to run the government.
I think we should stop fighting the worlds wars, let's bring the troops home and only use them when a real ally is in trouble. Germany unites, tries to take Europe for a third time we should be there :) Other then that let the world sort their own **** out.
Hmm well I think I am done, I wish I could be done with politics, the more I see the more jaded I get, these are the people we elect to lead us and I would not want most as guests in my home, or dating my sister, I would sooner trust a used car salesman... :mad:
-
I held my nose at the voting booth but he has surpassed my expectations of him back in the fall of 2000. He's no Ronald Reagan, but he's no Carter either.. ;)
I think Ashcroft is a scarey individual.
-
The thing that really pissed me off was having Ralph Nader and Al Gore as alternatives.
-
Originally posted by Yeager
The thing that really pissed me off was having Ralph Nader and Al Gore as alternatives.
C'mon Yeag....let's be fair.
Al Gore is a strategerist, while Ralph is one righteous furballer.
-
Originally posted by Rude
C'mon Yeag....let's be fair.
Al Gore is a strategerist, while Ralph is one righteous furballer.
Well you certainly brought the fight down to terms everyone can understand now!
-
I'm a conservative, and I'm pro Bush. Does that mean I agree with everything he does? Of course not. I've never agreed with everything a President did. It almost killed me to vote for him in the election, but I felt he was better than Gore. Like Ripsnort, he's done far better than I expected.
Some of what you said I agree with. I would like to see us stop being the world's policemen. On the other hand, I really support Bush's hard handed approach. I support his actions in Afghanistan and Iraq. I think we should be heavy militarily when it is in our best interest.
I think you see him defended so much by many of the conservatives of the board because the liberals of the board bash him so much.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
I support his actions in Afghanistan and Iraq. I think we should be heavy militarily when it is in our best interest.
I think you see him defended so much by many of the conservatives of the board because the liberals of the board bash him so much.
Its the only thing they understand Marlet (Force)...they don't understand our Liberal "Koom-by-ya" and see that as a weakness, but our liberals haven't figured that out yet so they just send more terrorists into the country. Times are a-changing..we're not out of the woods, but soon many will learn that force is sometimes imminent and the "lets be friends" crap don't work with these guys (terrorists)
-
Mart
Yeah I think your right, I do not remeber things being like this when Clinton was the pres.
I did not hate Clinton, but Bush seems to bring that out in some people, my lib friend, hates him.
I do no think Bush is doing a horible job or anything, but I do not agree with many of the things he has done. If I had a better choice I would not vote for him but I do not think I am going to have a better choice in 2004, lol.
The only dem who evokes hate in me like I see some on this board have for Bush is hillery... she sucks...
she is not half the man her husband was lol.
-
My dad was a cabinet maker. His shop closed, and when he had to seek work, he could not find any. He was an amazing cabinet maker, but all the shops in the area that where open when he was looking for work, where production shops and didn't need a skilled man with 20 years of custom cabinet work. They wanted illegals, or at least Mexicans cause they didn't have to pay them real money. He ended up in a crappy job, making desktops for cubes.
Just regarding this portion, let me ask the following question:
Who's fault is it ?
Mexicans ? Or the businessman who would rather BREAK THE LAW to save few bucks ?
Immigrant will do whatever it takes to feed himself or family.
As long as american public is willing to look the other way while businesses are being run ILLIGALY ( mind you, not contributing taxes either !!! ), there will always be illigal immigration.
In THEORY, you should not be able to get a job ANYWHERE without valid SSN number. Those businesses you speak off broke the law by hiring people with fake SSNs ( and knowing about it ) and then not paying taxes. They are screwing mexicans, your father, you and all of us.
Secondly, if there will be no demand for mexicans or other illigal immigrants, the supply will likely to be affected as well.
-
fd ski,
I have nothing against people trying to provide for their families, I just think they should be able to do it legally, IE through a program that brings them in legally to do these jobs.
I think it sucks we let corporations exploit people, and I think its OUR fault for allowing it.
I agree with your second point as well, there is a demand, the demand is not going to go away, but I think instead of looking the other way for cheap lettuce we should have a program to let them come and do it legally, that way we can at least screen for criminals.
-
Originally posted by fd ski
In THEORY, you should not be able to get a job ANYWHERE without valid SSN number. Those businesses you speak off broke the law by hiring people with fake SSNs ( and knowing about it ) and then not paying taxes. They are screwing mexicans, your father, you and all of us.
Secondly, if there will be no demand for mexicans or other illigal immigrants, the supply will likely to be affected as well.
Agreed!
-
I didn't vote FOR Bush I voted AGAINST Gore.
That being said I think Bush is doing better than what was expected.
-
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Mart
Yeah I think your right, I do not remeber things being like this when Clinton was the pres.
"Be assured, there is no hate for Clinton in America. Never! Those who say there is are sick in the mind. I say to you, such talk is not true. It's a product of their sick minds."
-
i think alot of libs' hate bush just because of one factor. The man is an arogant pompous love muffin. i remember when he was lieing about being a uniter not a divider. Now if you stand in his way on any issue right or wrong you get mowed over. you watch his speech's and it seems like he is talking to 6 year olds. Its driving a wedge in this country far deeper then monica could have.
-
Originally posted by Frogm4n
i think alot of libs' hate bush just because of one factor. The man is an arogant pompous love muffin. i remember when he was lieing about being a uniter not a divider. Now if you stand in his way on any issue right or wrong you get mowed over. you watch his speech's and it seems like he is talking to 6 year olds. Its driving a wedge in this country far deeper then monica could have.
I assume you hated Clinton for the same reasons, then.
-
Though I do not agree with him being
an arrogant pompous love muffin
I do agree he seems to be driving a wedge between the people of this country...
Some people love his, guy next door style some hate it.
-
i dont know of anyone next door to me being that dumb. well i guess its a college and the sports dorms are on the other side of the campus. i bet i could find some there.
aaahhh its so cute look, he didnt know all his advisors were lieing to him about WMD's. it couldnt possibly be his fault.
... at least clinton didnt lie about being a uniter not a divider, bush wont even work to compromise when it comes to his bills.
-
why do mexicans want to come to USA, is there something wrong with mexico? if there is something wrong with mexico , whose fault is that? mexico has been mexico longer than the USA has been the USA, if mexico is messed up the mexicans did it.
-
... at least clinton didnt lie about being a uniter not a divider, bush wont even work to compromise when it comes to his bills.
====
You must be very young (ie not yet wise), foolish, both or just......ignorant. Choose your poison.
So much for having anything above average to say here.
That being said: I enjoy reading your thoughts :)
-
mexico has governments that come in and bankrupt the country and then leave with millions in their bank accounts. they promote that private industry can take care of most public sectors because its easy to corrupt private companys. Its not really anything the US did to mexico. but without mexicans this country would pretty much come to a grinding halt. Price of produce and alot of other things would skyrocket when you are forced to pay a living wage to someone.
there needs to be something done about the rules they have now, but you cant just close the border.
-
actually yeager i think your the unwise or foolish one. i may be young(23), but ive seen far more of the world then you have. And i understand what i have seen.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
I'm a conservative, and I'm pro Bush. Does that mean I agree with everything he does? Of course not.
Judging by your avatar I'd say it was more like worship.;)
-
Why do people so smart need to go to college?
-
Originally posted by Curval
Judging by your avatar I'd say it was more like worship.;)
I usually don't have an avatar. I put that one up in response to someone else's. I've long since forgotten what the issue was at the time.
-
Originally posted by GtoRA2
fd ski,
I have nothing against people trying to provide for their families, I just think they should be able to do it legally, IE through a program that brings them in legally to do these jobs.
I think it sucks we let corporations exploit people, and I think its OUR fault for allowing it.
I agree with your second point as well, there is a demand, the demand is not going to go away, but I think instead of looking the other way for cheap lettuce we should have a program to let them come and do it legally, that way we can at least screen for criminals.
Legal programs already exist: it's how my family got here. I'm not sure of total numbers but there is tens of thousands green cards drawn each year for different nationalities. My mother won one and moved the family. Problem is that for every card won, there are 100s of people who lost and really wanted to win.
So unless you increase such programs ( and remember that greencard entitles you to same benefits as citizen - welfare, unemployment and all ) that's not a solution.
Problem is as follows:
Illigal jobs in US :
Company can pay half to an immigrant then what it would have to pay to the citizen. Minimum pay, conditions, taxes all that.
Even at that piss ant pay, illigals can live much better lifes here then where they are from - Mexico, whatever. We look at them and see poverty. Lots of them are living better then they ever had before.
As long as companies are willing to hire illigals - they will come. Sealing borders isn't going to help. They are very immaginative and they will find their ways in.
Now: if there was no jobs to be had, they would have no inclination to come here anymore. They can be in Mexico with thier family who will help them - or here homeless on the street hiding form police. They will stay home.
I'll give you an example from my own nation:
20 years ago if you could weasel a tourist visa to US somehow, your famliy was golden. If you send back to poland 20$ a month, it would provide for a family with some left over. It's true - I know it doesn't sound right :)
Jobs were avaiable and pleanty.
Today it isn't the same. Two things changed:
Stadard of living in poland went up and 20$ ain't worth crap :) Now you'd have to send 400$ and that's hard to do on illigal pay.
Secondly, illigal jobs aren't as pleantiful as they used to be. It isn't as easy as before and rewards aren't the same - as stated above.
To round up: we have to deal with those who are cheating us of tax monies and cheating the system by hiring illigals. Once demand of them goes down - they will be less likely to immigrate.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
I usually don't have an avatar. I put that one up in response to someone else's. I've long since forgotten what the issue was at the time.
It was the war if I remember rightly. ;)
..and you have had that avatar for a while. I have associated it with you in my mind...honestly. I'm beginning to think you actually look like GWB. :D
-
Originally posted by Gadfly
Why do people so smart need to go to college?
:eek: :D
One sentence comes to mind when I see frogwoman post..."Young, dumb, full of cumm"
-
Way to take the high road Rip.
-
hehe
I needed a good laugh ;)
-
Originally posted by Curval
It was the war if I remember rightly. ;)
..and you have had that avatar for a while. I have associated it with you in my mind...honestly. I'm beginning to think you actually look like GWB. :D
I've seen people his age look far worse. I think I could live with that.
GWB has more hair (http://geoffrey-allen.com/mt/archives/000159.html) than I do.
-
When you can not challenge someone's argument, attack him as a person.
Age, class, economical position, all of these are fair game to make everything someone says or do seem invalid.
The usual recourse of the mental midget; quite enjoyable to see really :)
-
classic class of an uneducated fool not being able to defend his position. We should start a ripsnort college fund.
-
I voted for Bush because I was afraid that the democrats would attempt to do the things he has actually done - increased the government, imposed more socialism, abridged our rightsm made US more of an empire, etc.
Of course my mistake was failing to recognise that the republican congress would have prevented a democratic president from accomplishing all that.
miko
-
Originally posted by Martlet
I've seen people his age look far worse. I think I could live with that.
GWB has more hair (http://geoffrey-allen.com/mt/archives/000159.html) than I do.
He's got more than me too....based on those pictures I'd say my hairline is just a tad further back than yours. :)
FYI...my father started the Pipe Band here on the island a number of years ago. He attended St. Andrews College in Arora Ontario and recently hosted a recruitment drive for the school here. They brought their Pipe Leader. He had won the World Championships. He was awesome.
-
I voted for the Republican
... in 92 94 96 98 00 02 and will again in 04
not much any democrat stands for or their policies/beliefs that would have me switch my vote to them at the state or national level.
as soon as they get their head outa their arse, maybe I'll reconsider ...
-
I think we as world citizens need to all come together and force Erlkonig to get rid of that avatar.
I voted for Bush. It was an easy choice for me.
But I knew he was going to be a barrel of fun from the git-go. The time he called that reporter a "world class prettythanghole" at a microphone that he thought was turned off, in front of hundreds of people during his campaign, I knew his Presidency would be interesting. Throw in his dyslexia and his Texas accent, and his strong religeous beliefs, and its a wonder so many people do support him.
I think he is the right President for the times... even though I may wince at things he occasionally says and does...
-
Is GWB the best we've ever had? Ummm....nope.
Is/Was he a better choice than those other two wingnuts? Easily.
-
Originally posted by Animal
When you can not challenge someone's argument, attack him as a person.
Age, class, economical position, all of these are fair game to make everything someone says or do seem invalid.
The usual recourse of the mental midget; quite enjoyable to see really :)
I believe it's called FoRuM RaGe cept there is no windshield, lol. :)
No spitting please!
-
Dune: Is/Was he a better choice than those other two wingnuts? Easily.
Did he do more damage than the other two wingnuts would have been allowed to cause? Certainly.
miko
-
Originally posted by miko2d
Dune: Is/Was he a better choice than those other two wingnuts? Easily.
Did he do more damage than the other two wingnuts would have been allowed to cause? Certainly.
miko
speculation.
-
Originally posted by Frogm4n
classic class of an uneducated fool not being able to defend his position. We should start a ripsnort college fund.
What? And ruin a nice high paying job?! no way man! We're taking in 6 digits pal, keep your college, we'll stick to our sKIlLz. :)
-
yea how many more months.
somwhere there is an indian part way thru his education whos gonna do your job.
nice thought huh.
-
...... and that Indian is going to get your job whether a Democrat or a Republican or an Independent wins the next Presidential race.
It's not hooked into which party holds the White House or the Congress for that matter.
-
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
yea how many more months.
somwhere there is an indian part way thru his education whos gonna do your job.
nice thought huh.
Nice thoughts LDV, but I have no fewer than 4 other job skills to fall back on bud. I'll be working again. Its nice to have a wife that makes more money with 0 debt sans a house payment :D (Yes, all 3 cars are paid for ;) )
-
Globalism is good for you.
-
Not much time so I'll be brief :)
I voted for Bush on the 1st day of early voting here in Tx. I thought (was hoping) that I'd be the first to vote in Houston, but there was a mile long line of people that got there b4 the polls opened. I voted for him and was VERY VERY happy. I think I even came here and posted about it right after I got home.
Before 9/11 I thought he was OK, not great, but not bad. A whole hell of a lot better than the last crook(s) we had there from 92 to 00. I've never been able to watch the man on TV, at least not comfortably. His speech is like fingernails down a chalkboard to me. From day one the Dems have been trying to destroy him, and for no good reason other than revenge for whitewater/luinsky. I've never seen a group of people so full of sour grapes in my life and filled with so much HATE. I thought we hated Clinton, but not nearly to the degree as the libs hate Bush. Well that stuff always pisses me off. I wasn't really to impressed with the man before 9-11.
Now after 9/11, I can't think of another person in the public "leadership" (LOL) roll that I think could do 1/2 as good a job as he has. THANK GOD Gore wasn't in the office then, we probably would have appologized to al queda.... Well since about 4 or 6 months after 9/11 the dems have look for any and every chance to bring down this president. All have failed because they are based on revenge and not truth. This thing right there says more to me than any other action by politicians. These ****ers would put the welfare of their political party before the welfare of this country. I always knew they did this before, but never in a time of war. Don't forget kids, right now we have a 2.5 front war going on. Dashel and his ilk take every opportunity to bash on the prez.
Is he the best president ever? No not hardly, Regan will be hard to pass in that regard. Is he doing a bad job and lying and murdering for oil? Hell no, not even close. I believe the man is motivated by his faith and what he feels is right (the way a leader should be) I have to say that it is SO KICK ARSE not to have to parse every single freaking sylibol of what the president says to understand that he didn't say ****e. He says what he means and means what he says, and then follows through on it. That part of him is VERY Reganesque if you ask me.
The bottom line (that's the name of my old band :D) for me is that I trust him and respect him. There are VERY VERY few political types that I respect and trust.
Now ask me what I feel about that BS tax cut you guys got :) Ahhhh I forget I'm a single white male, so I get to be ****ed by the government more than most of you :)
-
Originally posted by Udie
I voted for Bush on the 1st day of early voting here in Tx. I thought (was hoping) that I'd be the first to vote in Houston, but there was a mile long line of people that got there b4 the polls opened. I voted for him and was VERY VERY happy. I think I even came here and posted about it right after I got home.
I vaguely remember you asking.... I think it was fatty.... if he wanted to go with you downtown to some celebration that was going to happen after the winner of the election was announced that night. Of course it didn't end up happening for another couple of weeks, heh. But did you end up going down there? Musta been a strange night.
"we probably would have appologized to al queda.... "
The only time I can remember a President apologizing to another country for something is when Bush had to say "we're sorry" to the Chinese for ramming their spy plane. Then "we're really sorry"... then "no, honestly, we're really truly sorry".... then "we're so very sorry it's impossible to fully express just how sorry we really are!".... :)
"****e." <--- I give up. Which five letter swear word ends with an "e" on the end?
-
Originally posted by Nash
The only time I can remember a President apologizing to another country for something is when Bush had to say "we're sorry" to the Chinese for ramming their spy plane. Then "we're really sorry"... then "no, honestly, we're really truly sorry".... then "we're so very sorry it's impossible to fully express just how sorry we really are!".... :)
"****e." <--- I give up. Which five letter swear word ends with an "e" on the end?
I don't remember him appologizing for that, but I've had a messed up couple of years so I could see how I would forget that :)
The five letter swear word that ends with an "e" is ****e :D that's meatball e :D :D
-
i think what bush said was "we are very sorry your stupid pilot ran into our plane, now give it back", but i don't know how it was translated.
-
(http://www.ignis-fatuus.org/resources/images/stop/cartoons/apologytochina.gif)
But we all know that he doesn't. :D
-
Quote:
"actually yeager i think your the unwise or foolish one. i may be young(23), but ive seen far more of the world then you have. And i understand what i have seen."
ROFL!! That's effin' hilarious. You'd have to be a wet-behind-the-ears 23 yr. old Leftie to make that statement..........
Heheh............
C.
-
Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:
"actually yeager i think your the unwise or foolish one. i may be young(23), but ive seen far more of the world then you have. And i understand what i have seen."
ROFL!! That's effin' hilarious. You'd have to be a wet-behind-the-ears 23 yr. old Leftie to make that statement..........
Heheh............
C.
wow you are awesome.
-
You'd have to be a liar, an idiot, or a liar and an idiot to think that Bush-haters put forth even half the effort, organization, and money that went behind Clinton-hating.
-
Originally posted by Erlkonig
You'd have to be a liar, an idiot, or a liar and an idiot to think that Bush-haters put forth even half the effort, organization, and money that went behind Clinton-hating.
Only because Clinton's antics demanded court appearances.
-
I never hated Clinton, hell I think he lied, I know he lied. I have a big problem with that.
He had to ways out of the whole Monica think that I could have respected.
A: I am sorry, I ****ed up.
B: My personal life is not your business I will not answer any questions about it.
He took C: "I never had sex"
Making him a Liar.
Regardless, I never hated the man, hell he pushed allot of fairly middle of the road things that were not horrible.
-
animal are you really as intelligent as your seem? Or is it just an act......
-
Originally posted by Yeager
animal are you really as intelligent as your seem? Or is it just an act......
You wasted your nation's liberation date post count on me, I feel special.