Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SFRT - Frenchy on August 18, 2003, 12:54:40 PM
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What's the situation over there? Do you guys have it under control or repetitive blunders re-enforce the "Great Evil" image?
Everytime I see/read something about Iraq it's negative, who's following the news?
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
who's following the news?
Why don't you, so you don't have to troll?
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Marlet, thank you for this great answer!!!
I don't because I'm rarely home, and my TV is at home. The only news I get is from firing up my emails and I have DSL Yahoo NEWS pages. Those guys always bring articles about stuff like this:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=5&u=/nm/20030817/ts_nm/iraq_cameraman_dc_11 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=5&u=/nm/20030817/ts_nm/iraq_cameraman_dc_11)
The couple of times I took the extra time to go on CNN web site, all i could read was the fighting still going in Iraq and the locals demonstrations.
That's why I am asking you. A military victory was never an issue and was the easy part. Is USA able to stabilize Iraq and actually accomplish something or is it just the media who doesn't report the "good news" and only the "screew ups"?
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we are still trying to civilize another uncivilized population, whether want to join the 21st century or not ... and losing good soldiers in the process.
as for news being "negative", isn't that a requirement to consider it "news"?
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/18/sprj.irq.baby.found/index.html
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news...denmark is sending 42 more troops to add to the 450 already in iraq.
sabatours have blown up a oil pipline and water line.
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"The troops named the baby Rose after the red rose of the Lancashire regiment."
{Devils Advocate}
What right do these troops have naming the baby?
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They should have named her "Rocket"
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Marlet, thank you for this great answer!!!
I don't because I'm rarely home, and my TV is at home. The only news I get is from firing up my emails and I have DSL Yahoo NEWS pages. Those guys always bring articles about stuff like this:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=5&u=/nm/20030817/ts_nm/iraq_cameraman_dc_11 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=5&u=/nm/20030817/ts_nm/iraq_cameraman_dc_11)
The couple of times I took the extra time to go on CNN web site, all i could read was the fighting still going in Iraq and the locals demonstrations.
That's why I am asking you. A military victory was never an issue and was the easy part. Is USA able to stabilize Iraq and actually accomplish something or is it just the media who doesn't report the "good news" and only the "screew ups"?
Try these
http://news.bbc.co.uk/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
http://www.independent.co.uk/
http://news.google.com/
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Originally posted by Eagler
we are still trying to civilize another uncivilized population, whether want to join the 21st century or not ... and losing good soldiers in the process.
as for news being "negative", isn't that a requirement to consider it "news"?
Also known as imperialism....
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Great, ty guys.
I'm not too interested by babys being found in guns boxes, it's food for soccer moms.
What is done for a new governement? How strong is the pro-saddam resistance? In a nutshell, who does what to get Bush's plans work.
Ty for all those links, I'll take some time tonight to get up to speed.:)
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Great, ty guys.
I'm not too interested by babys being found in guns boxes, it's food for soccer moms.
Of course you aren't interested. It conflicts with the "Great Evil" image you mentioned earlier. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Eagler
we are still trying to civilize another uncivilized population, whether want to join the 21st century or not ... and losing good soldiers in the process.
as for news being "negative", isn't that a requirement to consider it "news"?
ahhh the irony of the cradle of civilisation being "civilized" by the new barbarians.........
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I agree...The US and the UK are complete barbarians.
Too bad Iraq invaded Kuwait, got thrown out, and then disregarded their cease-fire agreements...... otherwise they could have remained in their previous "civilized" state indefinatley.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Of course you aren't interested. It conflicts with the "Great Evil" image you mentioned earlier. :rolleyes:
:confused: I think you better go back to Disneyland instead of trying to find malefic comments in my sentenses because I happen to be French, thus stupidly anti-American.:confused:
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Everytime I see/read something about Iraq it's negative...
I was merely pointing out a non-negative news article about Iraq, as you requested. Just how is that malicious?
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"Of course you aren't interested. It conflicts with the "Great Evil" image you mentioned earlier. "
What does that means? It's a personal attack stating that I consider USA as the "Great Evil"(tm) and only wishing to discredit USA's efforts against all logical reasoning.
I'm not interested in the baby story because it's just an "annectode" of the war. I'm sorry if I offended you by rejecting it.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Do you guys have it under control or repetitive blunders re-enforce the "Great Evil" image?
This statement sounds like it is your opinion. If it is not, I apologize.
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If it was my opinion I would not have put it as a question, but an affirmation.
No sweat man, we squared now :D
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News is that a Danish soldier was killed. Possibly a friendly fire incident during a shootout.
Guilt by association. 'They support the yanks, they must be bad'.
Hm. And Eagler, the Iraqis are far from uncivilized. Your country is some 250 years old or something, with very little cultural heritage. Iraq has a very long cultural past and was the site of many enlightening inventions/innovation. To call them uncivilized is a great disservice and very untrue.
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Silence sub-humans. Iraq is ours. California is next.
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Couple of things to keep the Conservatives blood pressure up there amongst the chest pains and pacemakers....
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030804&s=alterman
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030901&s=hutton
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I love the humor liberals provide when they can't get their candidates in office.
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Your country is some 250 years old or something, with very little cultural heritage.
LOL! People in our country came from all over the world. We probably have more cultural heritage than any other country.
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man some showing of true colors here.
not all americans or even most agree with these conservative fools french.
miss you alot cant wait for ah2 to see the tail end of your 47 again. :)
p.s. they ( u.s. army) wacked a press camera man today. mistaked a beta cam for a b40 or rpg7 or whatever they are calling a panzerfaust this week. ( yea right )
i think the troops are showing strain. expecially after the almost pay cut. the republicans were tryin for. they know they arent comeing home soon and alot aren't coming home at all. on or two dead soldiers a day. more rather than less organized resistance.
there is a precident.
about 1967 by vietnam clock. lots of patriotism first signs of the truly bad stuff to come( guys comeing home with 10,000 yard permenent stare). people are not lineing up for the fight at the recruiters office, wait till we get to 1973.
hopfully we will have a regime change here first.
love ya french
towd.
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Originally posted by NUKE
LOL! People in our country came from all over the world. We probably have more cultural heritage than any other country.
If you have five plates and fill up four of those with different kind of soup, then from each of the four plate pour some into the fifth plate, what do you have?
A mix of each of the four soups, but it tastes like a whole new soup.
These people who moved to US, created a new culture.
Besides, the cultural heritage doesn't quite mean what you're thinking of.. I suppose.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
not all americans or even most agree with these conservative fools french.
Most, you say? That's odd. It isn't what all the major news polls are saying (http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm).
Reading comprehension should be a requirement for immigration.
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Originally posted by Eagler
we are still trying to civilize another uncivilized population, whether want to join the 21st century or not ... and losing good soldiers in the process.
as for news being "negative", isn't that a requirement to consider it "news"?
LOL and now are Iraqi uncivilized LOL
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Originally posted by threedays
LOL and now are Iraqi uncivilized LOL
babelfish is bad for you.
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Originally posted by Martlet
babelfish is bad for you.
How about you start discussing with foreigners in their language, since it doesn't sound to be a problem for you.
...or will you rather retort with arrogance?
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Originally posted by Fishu
How about you start discussing with foreigners in their language, since it doesn't sound to be a problem for you.
...or will you rather retort with arrogance?
I do, when I visit foreign message boards. Again, you speak before thinking. I'm seeing a develping trend.....
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NUKE, I am talking AMERICAN cultural heritage - as in the heritage belonging to Americans as a nationality. You could argue that that means all, but it'd be as silly as saying it means nothing.
Unless, of course, you're suggesting there isn't an American culture or influence in the world. Then I would both agree and disagree and jump around and be happy :)
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Originally posted by Martlet
I do, when I visit foreign message boards. Again, you speak before thinking. I'm seeing a develping trend.....
Alright then, how about we'll discuss in finnish, since some couple days ago you had problems with my english...?
Oh.. by the way, do you happen to also speak fluently over at the foreign message boards? (in their language of course)
I mean, it must be done as well as you require the foreigners to speak english over here.
Naturally, it'd be a problem for you, if you don't speak the language fluently.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Alright then, how about we'll discuss in finnish, since some couple days ago you had problems with my english...?
Oh.. by the way, do you happen to also speak fluently over at the foreign message boards? (in their language of course)
I mean, it must be done as well as you require the foreigners to speak english over here.
Naturally, it'd be a problem for you, if you don't speak the language fluently.
I didn't speak finnish to you because I wasn't speaking on a finnish message board. I have no desire to learn finnish, since there's only 10 or 11 people in the world that speak it.
And yes, it would be a problem if I didn't speak the language fluently. That's why I don't do it.
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So you don't care to credit the others, whos language you don't "care to learn", for trying to communicate in your language.... but rather fault them for trying?
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Originally posted by Fishu
So you don't care to credit the others, whos language you don't "care to learn", for trying to communicate in your language.... but rather fault them for trying?
Putting words in my mouth, are you? As I said before, I only speak on message boards in a language that I am fluent in. I will speak to friends in their native tongue, even if I'm not fluent.
I won't, however, use babelfish just to insult someone.
Aren't you supposed to be looking for some facts?
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AMERICAN cultural heritage started about 10,000 years ago when the first people came here, everyone after that just added to it.
why are europeans so jealous of USA that they have to always try to put it down?
BTW , there is no american empire, you euros tried to rule the world and failed (nice "cultural heritage" there europe) , the US does not want to rule the world, but you euros think the USA wants to be like you were.
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I have no need to put words in your mouth, which you have said by your own will.
I've seen you more often critisizing others for their english, than crediting them for trying or tried not to use it for your benefit.
What comes to the facts:
You do have a rather validating memory, if you don't remember what you said far less than a day ago.
Or then it's simply a matter of reading comprehension.
John9001,
The AMERICAN cultural heritage around the north america for a big part got ousted by the UNITED STATES OF AMERICAn culture.
Which was for most part considered barbaric by the ancestors of UNITED STATES OF AMERICAn culture.
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John, were you in Vietnam in 1965-75?
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Управляемым! Управляйте моими Mig-21 Товарищами! Финансовый Сопвит Эскадрон Верблюда!
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Originally posted by Fishu
I have no need to put words in your mouth, which you have said by your own will.
I've seen you more often critisizing others for their english, than crediting them for trying or tried not to use it for your benefit.
What comes to the facts:
You do have a rather validating memory, if you don't remember what you said far less than a day ago.
Or then it's simply a matter of reading comprehension.
I have a great memory. I remember you making several accusations the other day, then not having a shred of evidence to back them up. Is that what you are referring to?
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Hey !... Let's all speak in Cherokee! :)
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Originally posted by Martlet
I have a great memory. I remember you making several accusations the other day, then not having a shred of evidence to back them up. Is that what you are referring to?
Reading compherension isn't your best asset right now, is it?
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Originally posted by Fishu
Reading compherension isn't your best asset right now, is it?
explain
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Martlet,
I'm done, accomplished what I were to do with this.
This time we played by my rules and you played along with the game.
Name of the game was 'the entrapment'.
You should take a lesson from this.
salute!
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Originally posted by Fishu
John9001,
The AMERICAN cultural heritage around the north america for a big part got ousted by the UNITED STATES OF AMERICAn culture.
Which was for most part considered barbaric by the ancestors of UNITED STATES OF AMERICAn culture.
now thats really funny, the "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA' did not invade NORTH AMERICA, you europeans did, but we revolted and sent your royal imperial butts back to europe ( except for canada)
native heritage: rivers , mountains, states, towns*, sports teams, have indian names or are named after indians, the Navaho lands are as big as the state of pennsyvania, i had a co-worker who was Lokta, and he spoke english BTW.
* the town i come from was named for a indian chief.
frenchy , what does being in nam from 65 to 75 have to do with it? FYI i was in the USMC from 62 -64 , so i just missed it.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Martlet,
I'm done, accomplished what I were to do with this.
This time we played by my rules and you played along with the game.
Name of the game was 'the entrapment'.
You should take a lesson from this.
salute!
HAHA, I love it when you show what an idiot you are. How many times have you tried to sound like an intellect and failed? Entrapment? HA! You're comedy gold! Dumb as rocks, but funny as hell.
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John9001,
I'm not talking about that who did what and where, but about the cultures.
If we consider what the AMERICAN culture was, which you say is 10000 year old, and what it is now, it is near non-existant.
Today, the leading culture in north america, particularly in the area of USA, is the USA's culture itself - theres hardly a sign of the 10000 year culture.
This 10000 year old culture is probably among slightest effecting cultures in the current culture - which for most parts originates from elsewhere than the original north america.
USA's culture is mostly influenced by various european cultures, which then mixed up into it's own culture.
the least effecting are asian african and middle eastern cultures and on the very minor the original american culture - which was considered barbaric by most of these cultures.
The roots simply comes from elsewhere.
I don't know what the problem with this is...or would you rather live like in parts of south america or middle of nowhere in africa?
Martlet,
I really suggest you to take a lesson, since you don't give a very intelligent impression of yourself and top of it all, you're playing for my benefit right now, not yours.
An intellect person would play it down with an intelligent comment, not with the comments you just posted.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Martlet,
I really suggest you to take a lesson, since you don't give a very intelligent impression of yourself and top of it all, you're playing for my benefit right now, not yours.
An intellect person would play it down with an intelligent comment, not with the comments you just posted.
Straight from the horses mouth, ladies and gentlemen. Come back later, he'll be here all week.
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here you go
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110003883
a different pov
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I'd like to hear more similar articles from all around Iraq, to hear if and how it differs regionally by soldiers experience.
Nothing new in that really, but reporters are more boring.
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Frenchy,
Problably the best news source you will find on international security issues is "The Open Source Intelligence Resource Project"
It's run by an intelligence analyst who hangs out on AGW.
You can find it at http://www.osirp.com
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Except the URL doesn't appear to work?
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ty Trawn, link is not working but I'll check on yahoo for the report.
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Originally posted by john9001
frenchy , what does being in nam from 65 to 75 have to do with it? FYI i was in the USMC from 62 -64 , so i just missed it.
I knew that's why I asked, but I thought it was 65. Well, why did Johnson sent your fellow buddies fight in Vietnam? Only to retailiate from the US destroyer's attack? Why the number of U.S. military advisers in South Vietnam rise from 900 to 15,000 from 1960 to 1963?
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Frenchy, you do know that Vietnam was a French screw-up, right?
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I know that Vietnam was a French colony and we got violently kicked out. Why is it a "French screew up"? How does that answer my question to John? Do you mean that France is responsible for USA to go to war in Vietnam?
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Doh! My mistake. http://www.osirp.org
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Doh! My mistake. http://www.osirp.org
by a quick glance looks like quite an interesting site
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Originally posted by NUKE
Frenchy, you do know that Vietnam was a French screw-up, right?
I might be wrong, but wasnt Southeast Asia (French Indo-China)acquired by France after Allied Victory in the Pacific?
Anybody know for sure?
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Originally posted by Nefarious
I might be wrong, but wasnt Southeast Asia (French Indo-China)acquired by France after Allied Victory in the Pacific?
Anybody know for sure?
French Indo China was a European colony before ww2 along with Dutch East Indies, British India, Spanish (then US) Phillipines,etc...
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Originally posted by NUKE
Frenchy, you do know that Vietnam was a French screw-up, right?
France specifically asked for US heavy bomber support at Dien bien Phu, it could have turned the tide...
It was denied.
I guess the US thought it was best to let Vietnam fall into communist hands, then swoop in and rack up the goodies...
history proved them wrong.
Note that I am not really criticizing the US attitude, I am cynical enough to appreciate " realpolitik"...
As usual, innocents and brave men payed the price though...
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at the end of WW2 france wanted their colony back , and ho che min asked truman to help vietnam become independent, but truman wanted to support our "friends' the french and refused ho che min.
Ike did not give the support the french asked for and france lost indo china.
the vietman war was the result of JFK (bay of pigs) LBJ (i can pick bombing targets from the white house), McNarmra( my wiz kids can solve any prob with numbers) and the US state dept( we mess everything up)...so now you know why there was a vietman war.
BTW nixon forced NV to sign a peace treaty in 75 and both sides with drew combat troops, then nixon resigns , democratic congress cuts off all mil aid to SV, in 77 NV invades SV and ford refuses to intervene. and the south falls.
which brings us to the title of this thread ..iraq.
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Now I know why there was an Iraq II war too John.
:D
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Frenchy, are there no pilot jobs in France? Why bite the hand that feeds ya?
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Why is it a "French screew up"?
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Because the Fench treated the Viets like **** and denied them their basic rights as humans. Thats why its a french screw up.
The Viets kicked the ever livin **** out of the french militarily and politically.
The reason the world is such a ****ed up place today is becasue France and England were such dumb and mean bastards when they ruled the planet.
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Originally posted by john9001
at the end of WW2 france wanted their colony back , and ho che min asked truman to help vietnam become independent, but truman wanted to support our "friends' the french and refused ho che min.
Ike did not give the support the french asked for and france lost indo china.
the vietman war was the result of JFK (bay of pigs) LBJ (i can pick bombing targets from the white house), McNarmra( my wiz kids can solve any prob with numbers) and the US state dept( we mess everything up)...so now you know why there was a vietman war.
BTW nixon forced NV to sign a peace treaty in 75 and both sides with drew combat troops, then nixon resigns , democratic congress cuts off all mil aid to SV, in 77 NV invades SV and ford refuses to intervene. and the south falls.
which brings us to the title of this thread ..iraq.
Correct me if I'm wrong but...
North Vietnam and the US signed the peace treaty in 1973 following the last US air offensive (Linebacker? Or was it Rolling Thunder II?).
The final NVA offensive takes place in 1974-1975, with Saigon being overrun in 1975 (not 1977).
As an aside, the 1975 evacuation of Saigon is the first operational deployment of the F-14A which was then replacing the F-4 Phantoms on the decks of the USN carriers.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Why is it a "French screew up"?
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Because the Fench treated the Viets like ***** and denied them their basic rights as humans. Thats why its a french screw up.
The Viets kicked the ever livin ***** out of the french militarily and politically.
The reason the world is such a ****ed up place today is becasue France and England were such dumb and mean bastards when they ruled the planet.
Just out of curiosity, if Vietnam was a French "screw up" how would one classify the US involvement? A success?
Both countries thought that isolated firebases, heavy firepower and pacification of isolated pockets of the local population would be successful, and both were wrong. So how can you criticize French foreign and military policy in Indochina when there is a memorial in Washington, D.C. which serves as a testament, in part, to the futility of the US involvement in Vietnam?
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Originally posted by MJHerman
Just out of curiosity, if Vietnam was a French "screw up" how would one classify the US involvement? A success?
A Democrat screw up (Kennedy, then Johnson escalated it, then handed it over for Nixon to end)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
A Democrat screw up (Kennedy, then Johnson escalated it, then handed it over for Nixon to end)
I get it. That explains the little "D" or "R", as applicable, which follows each of the 58,000+ names on the Vietnam Memorial.
So....
Gulf War II - Good conflict started by a Republican
Afghanistan - Good conflict started by a Republican
Gulf War I - Good conflict started by a Republican
Panama - Good "conflict" started by a Republican
Grenada - Good "conflict" started by a Republican
Korea - Bad conflict but good ending (started by a Democrat but ended by a Republican)
Vietnam - Bad conflict but good ending (same as above)
WWII - Bad conflict started by a Democrat
Who would have thought that world history could be so easily explained solely by reference to which party the democratically elected President of the United States belonged to? Now if we could just figure out how to explain, in similar simplistic terms, all of the events that affected the world prior to 1776.....
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You do realize the investments made by the Johnson family in the ammunitions sector of businesses in the 60's right? I guess we can attribute as much of a link to that and Vietnam as we could, say, Cheney and Enron? ;)
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I'm not sure I understood the comment, but if you are suggesting that a politician would start a war for the benefit of an increase in his investment portfolio, it should make all of us wonder whether the right kind of people are being elected by the US population. But I'll chalk up the happy face as sarcasm on your part
:D
In any event, I'm all for capitalism and investing in whatever gets you the greatest return, and I won't hold a politician's investments against them so long as (a) the products being produced do not do any harm (i.e., the ammunition in this case wasn't defective) and (b) the politician in question does not use their political power to manipulate the free market process which in some way benefits his/her investment to the detriment of others.
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Glad you saw the similarity and the sarcasm ;)
To put it plainly, I believe there are "Just" wars and there are
"wars just to have wars". Vietnam was not a "Just" war.
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Agreed and agreed.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Why is it a "French screew up"?
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Because the Fench treated the Viets like **** and denied them their basic rights as humans. Thats why its a french screw up.
The Viets kicked the ever livin **** out of the french militarily and politically.
The reason the world is such a ****ed up place today is becasue France and England were such dumb and mean bastards when they ruled the planet.
This post look to be the best of your "I make my mind using clichйs" posts ...
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Well its true isnt it? From what I can glean from the historical record the French occupation of Vietnam was one of cruelty and oppression. Did you know that Straffo? That the world views past french occupations in history and especially the occupation of Vietnam as acts of aggression, cuelty and oppression?
Oh wait, let me guess, the US invasion and subsequent "occupation" of Iraq is strictly for the oil and that suppressing the free people of Iraq through aggression, cruelty and oppression is the realty of today? or would that be putting words in your mouth?
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Originally posted by Yeager
Well its true isnt it? From what I can glean from the historical record the French occupation of Vietnam was one of cruelty and oppression. Did you know that Straffo? That the world views past french occupations in history and especially the occupation of Vietnam as acts of aggression, cuelty and oppression?
Oh wait, let me guess, the US invasion and subsequent "occupation" of Iraq is strictly for the oil and that suppressing the free people of Iraq through aggression, cruelty and oppression is the realty of today? or would that be putting words in your mouth?
No arguments on the point about the nature of the French occupation but....
Would you characterize the US treatment of the South Vietnamese civilian population as nice and beneficial to the locals? Somehow displacing people from their villages, creating free fire zones, leaving behind tons of mines and unexploded munitions, overthrowing SVN presidents, My Lai and countless other incidents (not to mention abandoning them in their greatest time of need) would lead me to believe that many former South Vietnamese would certainly rank the US ahead of France, but don't be surprised if they don't attach a halo to your head.
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better don't start that ...
how many schools ?
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I have a bad feeling about this thread. Please keep it civil.
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Sorry...my original post was misdirected.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I have a bad feeling about this thread. Please keep it civil.
They are starting with Iraq and working back. After Vietnam, they'll argue about Korea. I'm waiting for the WWII discussion, that should be good.
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Skip WWII...lets go back to the 100 Years War!!!!!!
"You were the bad guy"
"No you were"
"No you were"
"No you were"
*Repeat as necessary*
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Eagler, you really do make some crazy assumptions and sound like Bush's press secretary. How on earth is Iraq not a civilized country/population?
They were civilized and have been for a long time before both our countries. Just because a country dosn't have democracy and a different religion dosn't make them uncivilized.
...-Gixer
Originally posted by Eagler
we are still trying to civilize another uncivilized population, whether want to join the 21st century or not ... and losing good soldiers in the process.
as for news being "negative", isn't that a requirement to consider it "news"?